Macross Mecha Manual

[Mr March]

And to make this post semi-relevant to this topic... the rear firing missile launchers and internal pallets in the "transatmospheric Conformal Pallet Packs"* for the VF-11 are canon - a translation of Kawamori-san's notes** on the lineart found in "Shoji Kawamori Macross Designs Works".

*I'm planning on renaming them "aerospace conformal (pallet) packs"... aerospace capturing the meaning of the Japanese better; though the same Japanese term is used on some of the (space) ships... and aerospace won't work for them. Eg: Aerospace Stealth Escort Carrier Uraga.

** man oh man, his writing is nigh illegible! Even the wife has trouble reading it.

Ah cool. I'll rewrite the profile for the VF-11C right now and use aerospace too. I think it's best to keep air/space in the text description for the "ships", becuase you're right, that aerospace term just doesn't work for a ship.

It's too bad we didn't get to see those rear-firing missile launchers in action. That's a pretty cool idea.

[VFTF1]

Hello Mr. March. Thank you for providing your wonderful website. I will read up on the subject that I am going to ask about soon, but if you have the time and desire, then please feel free to hypothesis on the following:

1) How would the SV-51r fair in SPACE? Was it only the VF-O that was designed for space/air/underwater/multi-purpose climate, or can the SV-51 also make it to space?

2) Presuming that the SV-51r CAN go into space - how would it function out there? Is there anything in the design that would limit it in terms of maneuvrability etc?

3) How would the SV-51r fair against a VF-1 with Super and Strike parts - in space? Abstracting from the reaction missiles that the VF-1s would have with their SS parts, how would the SV-51r do?

Thanks,

Pete

[lebhead]

Thanks, March. Now I'm all caught up on this new-fangled Frontier stuff!

[Mr March]

leb! Holy frack man, where ya been? How ya been? Great to see you! LOL!

VFTF1

You're welcome. I'm glad you're enjoying my website.

The SV-51 Gamma can probably only function underwater for the same limited amount of time the VF-0 can. Neither variable fighter was built for extended operation in space since both the VF-0 and the SV-51 use conventional (over-tuned) jet engines. However, since they were designed as testbeds for OverTechnology, I don't imagine it would require an awful lot of reworking to make them space worthy. The SV-51 appears to have ports of vernier thrusters, so it should be able to maneuver in space. Tenjin Hidetaka Artworks Of Macross Valkyries even has a VF-0 Space Proving Wing variant within it's pages

Among the valkyries of Macross, the VF-0 and SV-51 are examples of pretty clumsy technology, comparatively speaking. They are large, heavy and not as efficient as the other models of VF. I know the outward airframe designs of the VF-0 and SV-51 look anachronistically more advanced than the VF-1, but I think we all understand by now that Macross Zero was released 20 years after the VF-1 appeared in SDF Macross in 1982. The tech is really all that matters and the SV-51 has much less thrust and is far heavier than it's more efficient VF-1 Valkyrie successor. The SV-51 is underpowered for a variable fighter and it has a slow transformation. Now this isn't to say the VF-0 and SV-51 are backward or THAT far behind other valkyries, because they are not. But all other factors being equal, the VF-0 and SV-51 are simply weaker valkyries than the others.

Here's a few comparisons for consideration (with thrust figures converted to kilonewtons):

SV-51

Mass: empty 17.8 metric tons

Propulsion: 102.5 kN x 2; or 204.7 kN x 2 afterburner

Thrust-to-weight ratio: empty 2.34

VF-1A Valkyrie

Mass: empty 13.25 metric tons; standard T-O mass 18.5 metric tons; max T-O mass 37.0 metric tons

Propulsion: 11,500 kg [x g] x 2; or 23,000 kg [x g] x 2 in overboost (225.63 kN x 2)

Thrust-to-weight ratio: empty 3.47; standard T-O 2.49; maximum T-O 1.24

VF-1S Super Valkyrie

Mass: empty 19.2 metric tons; standard T-O mass 45.0 metric tons; maximum T-O mass 72.0 metric tons

Propulsion: estimated 12,500 kg [x g] x 2, estimated 25,000 kg [x g] x 2 in overboost (245.25 kN x 2);

FAST Pack P&W+EF-2001 booster thrusters 2 x 120,000 kg [x g] (1,177.2 kN x 2)

Thrust-to-weight ratio: standard T-O 6.36; maximum T-O 3.97

[SchizophrenicMC]

Hmm... March, how quickly do the respective VFs accelerate? I mean, if that information is available to you?

With that much thrust, one would expect a Super'ed VF-1S could accelerate fast enough to kill the pilot...

[Gubaba]

Tenjin Hidetaka Artworks Of Macross Valkyries even has a VF-0 Space Proving Wing variant within it's pages

That's the VF-0B (basically a two-seater 0A), and since it was created by Hasegawa, I'm not sure how canonical it is...

[SchizophrenicMC]

That's the VF-0B (basically a two-seater 0A), and since it was created by Hasegawa, I'm not sure how canonical it is...

Exactly...

Besides, the 0D is MUCH cooler.

[sketchley]

Canon enough to be in the Compendium

Also, isn't Hidetaka-san a contract artist? Wouldn't the company that produced the VF-0B kit be the ones responsible for "creating" it? And given that it is "official" (see Compendium's status in regard to canon-icity), isn't it possible that it was a design that Kawamori-san wanted to include in the anime, but ran out of budget/time to do so?

[azrael]

Also, isn't Hidetaka-san a contract artist? Wouldn't the company that produced the VF-0B kit be the ones responsible for "creating" it? And given that it is "official" (see Compendium's status in regard to canon-icity), isn't it possible that it was a design that Kawamori-san wanted to include in the anime, but ran out of budget/time to do so?

Probably. It did appear in the series in episode 1 but it never made it out of that background shot and was probably replaced by the VF-0D in later episodes.

[Gubaba]

Canon enough to be in the Compendium

Oh, okay. I think it's there because there's a kit, though...not the other way round.

Also, isn't Hidetaka-san a contract artist? Wouldn't the company that produced the VF-0B kit be the ones responsible for "creating" it?

Yeah...I said that it was created by Hasegawa. My impression is that they wanted to get some more Mac Zero product out, and they had the two-seater nose for the 0D, but hadn't finished the body yet. PRESTO! VF-0B is created!

They recently also created the VF-0C as well.

[sketchley]

I've officially gone cross-eyed.

Guess it serves me right for staring at html code for a bunch of hours yesterday.

[Vostok 7]

leb! Holy frack man, where ya been? How ya been? Great to see you! LOL!

VFTF1

You're welcome. I'm glad you're enjoying my website.

The SV-51 Gamma can probably only function underwater for the same limited amount of time the VF-0 can. Neither variable fighter was built for extended operation in space since both the VF-0 and the SV-51 use conventional (over-tuned) jet engines. However, since they were designed as testbeds for OverTechnology, I don't imagine it would require an awful lot of reworking to make them space worthy. The SV-51 appears to have ports of vernier thrusters, so it should be able to maneuver in space. Tenjin Hidetaka Artworks Of Macross Valkyries even has a VF-0 Space Proving Wing variant within it's pages

Among the valkyries of Macross, the VF-0 and SV-51 are examples of pretty clumsy technology, comparatively speaking. They are large, heavy and not as efficient as the other models of VF. I know the outward airframe designs of the VF-0 and SV-51 look anachronistically more advanced than the VF-1, but I think we all understand by now that Macross Zero was released 20 years after the VF-1 appeared in SDF Macross in 1982. The tech is really all that matters and the SV-51 has much less thrust and is far heavier than it's more efficient VF-1 Valkyrie successor. The SV-51 is underpowered for a variable fighter and it has a slow transformation. Now this isn't to say the VF-0 and SV-51 are backward or THAT far behind other valkyries, because they are not. But all other factors being equal, the VF-0 and SV-51 are simply weaker valkyries than the others.

Here's a few comparisons for consideration (with thrust figures converted to kilonewtons):

SV-51

Mass: empty 17.8 metric tons

Propulsion: 102.5 kN x 2; or 204.7 kN x 2 afterburner

Thrust-to-weight ratio: empty 2.34

VF-1A Valkyrie

Mass: empty 13.25 metric tons; standard T-O mass 18.5 metric tons; max T-O mass 37.0 metric tons

Propulsion: 11,500 kg [x g] x 2; or 23,000 kg [x g] x 2 in overboost (225.63 kN x 2)

Thrust-to-weight ratio: empty 3.47; standard T-O 2.49; maximum T-O 1.24

VF-1S Super Valkyrie

Mass: empty 19.2 metric tons; standard T-O mass 45.0 metric tons; maximum T-O mass 72.0 metric tons

Propulsion: estimated 12,500 kg [x g] x 2, estimated 25,000 kg [x g] x 2 in overboost (245.25 kN x 2);

FAST Pack P&W+EF-2001 booster thrusters 2 x 120,000 kg [x g] (1,177.2 kN x 2)

Thrust-to-weight ratio: standard T-O 6.36; maximum T-O 3.97

Obviously, given the same engines, the SV-51 and VF-0 would probably have a similar thrust-to-weight ratio as the VF-1, but smaller lighter airframe means more maneuverability. Stock for stock, the thermonuclear engines don't appear to make much more thrust than O-Tech conventional jet engines.

Mr. March, where are the vernier thrusters on the SV-51? There's no circle-bars obviously, so Sukhoi/IAI/Dornier must have used some different scheme. Any hints?

I found it interesting the VF-0 has vernier "circle-bars" like the VF-1, and yet isn't totally approved for space-use (thought seems to be limited time space-capable, thanks to o-tech).

Vostok 7

[edwin3060]

Hmm... March, how quickly do the respective VFs accelerate? I mean, if that information is available to you?

With that much thrust, one would expect a Super'ed VF-1S could accelerate fast enough to kill the pilot...

The basic thrust-to-weight ratio will give you acceleration in a vacuum, so the Super VF-1S could accelerate at between 4 (Max TO) and 6 (Standard TO) Gs-- nowhere near fast enough to kill a person. In atmosphere, accelerations will be lower-- except during turns, where the control surfaces of the VF can contribute to the turn.

[VFTF1]

Mr. March:

Thank you so much for your detailed response. I read over the information on your webpage, but I was never good at translating such info into common sense, as you have done.

To sum up then, would it be fair to say the following:

An SV-51 CAN be made space-worthy, however, in space it's biggest problems would be relatively slower conversion time and relatively larger mass as compared to the VF-1 which is much much fast, and converts between its' respective modes fluidly and with ease.

Finally - one thing I noticed:

The Super VF-1 is likely more maneuvrable because it has thrusters/exhaust ports on its' sides - so in the vacuum of space it can maneuver quickly on the same axis as - say - a Revoltech Joint. The SV-51, even if we mounted some special booster to make it space worthy - is not at all maneuvrable in any mode. It would be relying on the simple laws of thermo-dynamics to move in space and would potentially have to "master" 0-G movement kind of like Minmey had to in DYRL? as opposed to being able to proverbialy far out of its' pores in order to maneuver (like the Super VF-1 can)?

Your information will be put to good use - I promise:)

Pete

[Mr March]

SchizophrenicMC

The variable fighters can accelerate as fast as their thrust-to-weight ratio. So you have a few gs for the early variable fighters, 1.87g/2.34gs for the VF-0 Phoenix and SV-51 respectively, 2.49gs for the VF-1A Valkyrie, 6.63g for the VF-1S Super Valkyrie, 6.33g for the VF-11B/C Thunderbolt, and 9.28g and 10.04G for the VF-17D/S Nightmare.

When later variable fighters like the YF-19/YF-21 arrive on the scene, the problem of acceleration really becomes a safety concern for the pilot. Macross Plus demonstrated the dangers of variable fighter potential rather graphically with Guld's demise due to high acceleration. The YF-19 and YF-21 can accelerate to 15.43g and 15.65g respectively which is significantly more g-force than the 9-12g limit most human pilots can endure for extended maneuvers.

By the time Macross Frontier came along, you've got the VF-25 Messiah accelerating at 39.09g and the VF-27 Lucifer at 45.02g, more than enough to harm or kill the pilot. Hence, the invention of cyborg pilots and Inertia Store Converter technology!

"It's an easy fix: one line of dialog. Thank gawd we invented the...whatever-device" :lol:

It appears Kawamori closely understood what he was doing when he built the statistics for his fictional variable fighters. The whole Macross Plus story line was built around the g-force limits of humans and the high-acceleration potential of unmanned aerospace craft. Smart guy that SK

Gubaba

Well, we don't really need a canon example to make a few safe assumptions. Strictly speaking in canon, no, there doesn't appear to be a space-VF-0 variant. However, we know the VF-1 is space-worthy, as are all the later valkyries built from OverTechnology. And given that the VF-0 and SV-51 can already function underwater, it's not exactly a leap to assume they could be made space-worthy without that much fuss.

Vostok 7

Even with thermonuclear reaction engines, the VF-0 and SV-51 would still have inferior T-W ratios simply because they are larger and heavier. But the overtuned conventional engines in the VF-0 and SV-51 were most likely OverTechnology themselves, so that's why they are not that far behind the first generation reaction engines of the VF-1 Valkyrie.

The SV-51 appears to have single and triple-ports of small, circle vernier thrusters, similar to the VF-17 Nightmare. You'll find two triple-ports on either side of the SV-51 nose parallel with the cockpit. There are also clearly five thruster ports on each leg in Battroid mode; some of the ports are dual thrusters.

VFTF1

You're welcome. Yes, I'd say it's perfectly reasonable to assume a space-worthy SV-51 could be built. I doubt there ever was one, but it certainly wouldn't be hard to make one in the context of the Macross fictional world.

I'll be adding kilonewton thrust ratings and the thrust to weight ratio to each valkyrie profile in the next update. Since Shoji Kawamori has finally embraced kilonewtons in Macross Zero and now Macross Frontier, having the converted figures for the pre-2002 variable fighters will help fans better compare the Macross mecha without the need to do the math each time. However, the kg thrust ratings will also remain. I'll use green colored text to differentiate the two.

The SV-51 appears to have vernier thrusters. Or at least, it's design clearly shows thrusters on the hull. So it could maneuver in space without a FAST Pack/Super Part system. But the larger, more powerful vernier thrusters on the VF-1S Super Valkyrie would almost assuredly make the VF-1 FAR more maneuverable, not to mention the VF-1S's superior T-W ratio.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Mr March

[sketchley]

Even with thermonuclear reaction engines, the VF-0 and SV-51 would still have inferior T-W ratios simply because they are larger and heavier. But the overtuned conventional engines in the VF-0 and SV-51 were most likely OverTechnology themselves, so that's why they are not that far behind the first generation reaction engines of the VF-1 Valkyrie.

I'd like to add that the size of the engines must also be taken into account. The engines of the VF-0 are larger than those in the VF-1. So, in addition to the change from conventional to thermonuclear, there's also a marked increase in performance (or thrust), despite a reduction in overall engine size.

[VFTF1]

The SV-51 appears to have vernier thrusters. Or at least, it's design clearly shows thrusters on the hull.

Wow. Really? I have to go look under my Ivanov now... I didn't notice that... that is helpful and hints that somebody was thinking of space flight for these. Correct me if I'm wrong - but Vernier Thrusters have no use outside of space, right?

Pete

[DarkReaper]

You have to take fuel endurance into account as well. An SV-51 might have a similar max thrust rating but it's going to burn through it's fuel blindingly fast. Most modern fighter jets have an afterburner endurance of about 10min max till bingo fuel, now take that rating and cut it in half for the OT engines.

I guess the MacZero engines are supercruise like the F22 though so they might have a combat endurance of 20 minutes or so in fighter mode.

Less if Gerwalk or Battroid are used as they pretty much require afterburner use.

A VF-1 on the other hand can just keep it's engine cranked up to max in an atmosphere for an indefinite time. A SV-51 might be able to keep up with a VF-1 in the first few minutes after engagement but will very quickly fall behind due to fuel restrictions.

Btw, the verniers would have to be very, very powerful to work in an atmosphere on a plane with control surfaces. At slow speeds verniers might prove useful, sort of like ultra-vectored thrust. But at high speeds the air acting on the control surfaces might be too powerful to overcome in any meaningfull amount.

There's a reason why vectored thrust is great for post-stall situations.

Edited January 26, 2009 by DarkReaper

[Remko]

You have to take fuel endurance into account as well. An SV-51 might have a similar max thrust rating but it's going to burn through it's fuel blindingly fast. Most modern fighter jets have an afterburner endurance of about 10min max till bingo fuel, now take that rating and cut it in half for the OT engines.

I guess the MacZero engines are supercruise like the F22 though so they might have a combat endurance of 20 minutes or so in fighter mode.

Less if Gerwalk or Battroid are used as they pretty much require afterburner use.

A VF-1 on the other hand can just keep it's engine cranked up to max in an atmosphere for an indefinite time. A SV-51 might be able to keep up with a VF-1 in the first few minutes after engagement but will very quickly fall behind due to fuel restrictions.

Btw, the verniers would have to be very, very powerful to work in an atmosphere on a plane with control surfaces. At slow speeds verniers might prove useful, sort of like ultra-vectored thrust. But at high speeds the air acting on the control surfaces might be too powerful to overcome in any meaningfull amount.

There's a reason why vectored thrust is great for post-stall situations.

The thrusthers underneath the cockpit of the SV-51 are not vernier (they are far to large) but more likely VTOL liftfans exhausts (the hatch just behind the cockpit can be opened up in Battroid mode to reveal the liftfans. Just like the one on the Lockheed-Martin F-35B Joint Strike Fighter STOVL variant. In my opinion, the SV-51 is not designed for use in space, unlike the VF-0. It's a variable fighter for atmospheric combat.

[Mr March]

sketchley

That goes without saying, but we can't be much more specific since we don't know how much the engines weigh. We only know that OverTechnology = lightweight in the Macross universe.

VFTF1

It would be quite wrong to assume that. Vernier thrusters are used within the atmosphere in many Macross anime productions. In Macross DYRL, Hikaru used vernier thrusters to launch his VT-1 Super Ostrich fighter off the ground and into GERWALK mode. In SDF Macross, a Queadluun-Rau is shown using it's forward vernier thrusters on Earth while transporting Milia to the SDF-1 as a spy. In Macross Plus, the YF-19, YF-21, Ghost X-9 and the high maneuver missiles are all shown using vernier thrusters within the atmosphere of Eden and Earth.

DarkReaper

Well, one must take into account that all the T-W ratios I've calculated are for empty weights. Only the VF-1 Valkyrie actually has enough official statistics to calculate the T-W ratio when it's filled with fuel, guns, missiles and ammunition (VF-1 empty is 13.25 tons, VF-1 standard T-O mass is 18.5 tons, so that equals 5.25 tons of additional mass for fuel/weapons).

In the case of the VF-1 versus SV-51, the SV-51 is not only heavier, but conventional engines would require a proportionately larger amount of fuel than a much more efficient thermonuclear reaction engine. So while a VF-1 only incurs an additional 5.25 tons of weight for it's standard T-O load, the SV-51 fully fueled and loaded with weapons would likely be that much more. Some modern fighters can carry as much as 8-10 tons of fuel alone.

Remko

I think you're confusing the two "VTOL fan jets" on the dorsal side of the rear nose with the triple-port verniers on the sides of the nose parallel to the cockpit.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Mr March

[VFTF1]

Thanks guys - and a big thanks to DarkReaper - this is the kind of info I need - where people not only lay out the science-talk but then give a graphic description like this one:

A VF-1 on the other hand can just keep it's engine cranked up to max in an atmosphere for an indefinite time. A SV-51 might be able to keep up with a VF-1 in the first few minutes after engagement but will very quickly fall behind due to fuel restrictions.

So basically - it comes down to this:

In space - an SV-51 COULD beat a VF-1 - IF it managed to do it within the scope of roughly....10 seconds. AKA- the pilot has to be extraordinary and the stealth capacities of the SV-51 have to be top notch.

Final question then:

What are the stealth capacities of an Ivanov type SV-51?

ps - re the Vernier thrusts - could VTOL thrusters be called vernier then? From the utter zilch I know (aka wiki) - Venier thrusters are by definition used in space.

But that's a side issue anyways - everything you guys have written has helped me immensely.

Big thanks.

Pete

Edited January 26, 2009 by VFTF1

[DarkReaper]

To be fair you can shoot down a F-22 with a Spitfire if you catch it at just the right moment.

Anyway, the VF-0 were only rated to operate without air supply for 1 minute max, and probably at reduced power as well.

So the whole discussion is moot anyway. Additionally we don't know how much the air turbines weigh more than the thermonukes if the SV-51 were to be refitted.

[VFTF1]

Ok - maybe I'll pose the question this way:

What would have to be changed in the SV-51 to make it space-worthy? By which, I don't mean "able to fly out of earth's atmosphere into space" but rather - able to fly around in space itself and do battle there - without re-entry capacity- just survive in space and fight there?

And by "change" I mean - barring a complete retooling - you have to keep the existing frame - it must still look the same - you can just alter internal elements - the engine - stuff like that.

Pete

[Mr March]

The SV-51 could perhaps defeat a VF-1 Valkyrie, but it's still at a disadvantage even for the first 10 minutes. Granted, I wouldn't label the SV-51 as "out of it's league" since it is a valkyrie, it's just a not operating on the same level of performance as the VF-1.

The biggest change the VF-0 and SV-51 would need to operate in space is a complete life support system and their engines would need to be replace with thermonuclear reaction engines.

[anime52k8]

The SV-51 appears to have vernier thrusters. Or at least, it's design clearly shows thrusters on the hull. So it could maneuver in space without a FAST Pack/Super Part system. But the larger, more powerful vernier thrusters on the VF-1S Super Valkyrie would almost assuredly make the VF-1 FAR more maneuverable, not to mention the VF-1S's superior T-W ratio.

I really don't think the SV-51 has thrusters that would help with space maneuvering, it seems more likely to me that the leg thrusters act more as thrust reverse's and stabilizing thrusters in GERWALK and battroid, but are probably too strong and not precise enough for fine maneuvering in space. as for the little circle things, I'm not even sure they're actually verniers and not just circles.

[Macross GURU]

...moving an off-topic discussion to this thread

I can provide some black and white versions of the gun pods for your weapon needs. I'd definitely prefer you use black and white versions of the weapons if you feel the need to use my scans.

I am keeping my website as up to date as possible with the latest information released on Macross, but just so you're aware, there is unlikely to be enough complete information to create totally canon RPG versions of each valkyrie (the VF-1 Valkyire is probably the one exception). You'll have to build some stuff on your own, but you probably already knew that. If you need to guess, I'd definitely suggest using the figures for the VF-1 as a benchmark. If you have any questions, I can provide some "enthusiastic fan opinions". Also, MW member sketchley runs an extensive RPG website about Macross, so he may be able to provide some gaming advice.

The Macross Zero, Macross II and Macross Frontier sections are is still being built. If you have high resolution scans of the line art from Macross II, I'll certainly take a look at what you've got. But I should warn you, I have very high requirements for my line art. I typically work with scans that are 1,200 DPI (typical drawings are about 3,000 to 4,000 pixels in size) and I down-convert them to 800-1,000 pixels for posting on my website.

I appreciate you respecting the usage terms for my website. Your website sounds like a good fansite for Macross RPG fans and I hope it turns out well. Post a link if you have one.

Yeh, I'm not sure if my B&W Macross II images are up to your standards but you could always take a look. Yes I am aware of the 'not complete data' on the other fighters and ships. I do have high standards on my RPG statistics and tend to design things as close as I can using the VF-1 benchmark. I'm partially relying on stats by Dave Deitrich and Daniel Henwood. My stats are more of an update to the former. I have been Role Playing for over ten years, so I know my way around the formula. I will greatly appreciate any input towards my site. I would appreciate any input from 'sketchley' as well, as I have seen his site and his art on 'DA'. Sorry it took me a while to reply, I've been busy knee deep in data and RPG stats. I have just completed the updated SDF-2 Megaroad. much is still similar to Deitrich's design however it has been corrected to 1600m and I have roughly calculated its beam, and height. After getting the deluxe edition of the RT: RPG I may need to change the rules for the PPB. I may not since the original PPB works perfectly enough.

[Protoculture]

March, I loved the updates you made recently on M3.

Thanks also for keeping us Macrossies & Robotech fans ( ::cowering:: ) updated even at Palladium RT board. Your works are awesome!

[edwin3060]

I really don't think the SV-51 has thrusters that would help with space maneuvering, it seems more likely to me that the leg thrusters act more as thrust reverse's and stabilizing thrusters in GERWALK and battroid, but are probably too strong and not precise enough for fine maneuvering in space. as for the little circle things, I'm not even sure they're actually verniers and not just circles.

Ditto-- I think the thrusters are more on the scale of the lift jets that the F-35B has on the tips of the wings-- low thrust, just there to help ensure that the grossly Gerwalk mode doesn't fall out of the sky at the slightest touch. So, to make the SV-51 even remotely space-worthy would require 1) OTEC reaction engines 2)Life Support systems 3)Better verniers--- which may require reinforcement of the structure of the aircraft, especially at the wing tips if there are verniers there, which would result in a re-design of the entire aircraft.

[Macross GURU]

Does the Megaroad have ARMD docked to it? It appears that it does.

[RedWolf]

Does the Megaroad have ARMD docked to it? It appears that it does.

Affirmative

Macross M3 Intro

[Macross GURU]

Affirmative

Macross M3 Intro

Well, that cinches it then, the Megaroad gets ARMD carriers, back to rpg stat building.

[Mr March]

anime52k8

The SV-51 could certainly be without verniers. It's just a guess. But the triple-ports appear identical to VF-17 Nightmare verniers to me. The VF-0 seems to have the same hook/handle vernier ports as the VF-1 Valkyrie, so I would assume as a competing fighter, the SV-51 would be vernier equipped as well. Regardless, if it does have verniers, they are unlikely to be as powerful as the high-thrust verniers on a VF-1 Valkyrie, to say nothing about the verniers on the FAST Pack system.

Macross GURU

That's okay. Don't worry about it. I often have to turn down submissions. Nearly 99% of the images floating around the internet are of no use to me because they are far too small and low resolution. In order to make the images of the M3 look as sharp and polished as they do, I have to work in high resolution and down convert from there. That's been one of the challenges of making the site. But it's almost done, so have no worries.

Protoculture

Thank you. It's been my pleasure to share more Macross.

Make sure to keep visiting my website. I've got a great Zentradi size page coming up, revision of all the Zentradi ships, some more Macross II mecha, some more Macross Zero mecha, more Macross Chronicle translations, improvements to existing profiles and more Macropedia entries, all in the next update.

[edwin3060]

Protoculture

Thank you. It's been my pleasure to share more Macross.

Make sure to keep visiting my website. I've got a great Zentradi size page coming up, revision of all the Zentradi ships, some more Macross II mecha, some more Macross Zero mecha, more Macross Chronicle translations, improvements to existing profiles and more Macropedia entries, all in the next update.

Sweet! I assume the VF-25S page will be updated, thanks to Gubaba. Also, will the VF-0D finally be up there?

[Mr March]

Absolutely. I'm going to be updating all the VF-25S pictures with the scans you may have seen me post in akt-m's thread in the fan works section and I'll be adding linear actuators, the 2057 date and other new information to the VF-25S. I'll also be able to improve the text description a little for the VF-25S.

The only VF-0D line art I have is fighter mode. I suppose I can color it and post a profile up as a place holder until better line art from Macross Zero is finally made available.

[Vostok 7]

Absolutely. I'm going to be updating all the VF-25S pictures with the scans you may have seen me post in akt-m's thread in the fan works section and I'll be adding linear actuators, the 2057 date and other new information to the VF-25S. I'll also be able to improve the text description a little for the VF-25S.

The only VF-0D line art I have is fighter mode. I suppose I can color it and post a profile up as a place holder until better line art from Macross Zero is finally made available.

Has the VF-0D ever been seen in Battroid mode? I know we've seen a Hasegawa model converted to GERWALK, but I don't think I've ever seen a -0D Battroid.

Here's a question about vernier thrusters on the VF-0 (and maybe SV-51) when they aren't obviously space capable, could they be there for fine control while hovering in GERWALK mode or Battroid mode? We know they'd be practically useless in atmosphere for normal flying speeds, but maybe they're for fine positioning control in the alternate modes. Whatever the case, there's certainly less of them on the VF-0 than the VF-1.

Vostok 7