Letigre Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 It's obviously designed extremely similar to the VF-2SS, and that's paying (Playful, at that, since MacII wasn't canon) homage to the non-canon work. NO, it isn't. Look, I've stared off and on at the Macross II line art for more than a decade, and that thing's resemblance to a VF-2SS is vague, at best! If anything, it bears resemblance to the VF-4/VF-X-4, etc..and rather tenuously there as well.
anime52k8 Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 "Non-canon can be made canon" There. I know a few instances where non-canon material is made canon by the producers, later. MacII's time in (AU) history hasn't happened in Macross Universe yet, so who's to say it can't? It's like people saying Peter and Mary Jane would always be a couple, then Stan Lee wrote in the unraveling of their entire history. "Non-canon can be made canon" And even then, there's the obvious, actual reason: Homage. Did you know every Star Wars and Indiana Jones movie had 1138 hidden in it? This, and THX Sound, are homage to George Lucas' original work, THX 1138. It's obviously designed extremely similar to the VF-2SS, and that's paying (Playful, at that, since MacII wasn't canon) homage to the non-canon work. but that's because star wars, indiana Jones, and THX 1138 are all movies by George Lucas. MacII was production done without any permission or involment by SK. for it to be a purposeful homage it would have to be assumed that SK actually liked MacII enough to want to include a nod to it in his own production (which we have no evidence of.) and even if it is a homage doesn't mean it's a VF-2SS or a YF-2SS or even a VF anything it could just be a space plane that has a couple visual cues from the VF-2SS. so even if it was an intentional homage on the part of SK (big if there) still doesn't mean that it's meant to indicate any attempt on his part to bring MacII into official canon. and just because it happens another 30~40 years after Frontier doesn't mean that MacII can be plugged in to established canon. there are many discrepancies in terms of technological development and implied history that have been discussed before that make MacII not make sence within primary macross cannon. about the only way you could make macII work is if SK and studio Nue were to go and re-edit and re-dub MacII in order to fix/explain all the things that don't make sense. so until that happens MacII isn't canon and that plane isn't related to the VF-2SS.
SchizophrenicMC Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Oy, oy, oi! Can no one on this forum take a joke? Is there no humor? This is why I'm not well-liked around here. With what I say, you got to take it with a grain of salt, and a touch of humor. Ach! Mein Gott in Himmel! I know it's not canon. I know it's not a VF-2SS. But, you gotta admit, it looks somewhat like a VF-2SS. I'm nowhere near the only one who thinks this, nor am I the one who revealed the similarity to myself. I read something about it (RandomCuriosity, if I'm not mistaken), and I could see the connection. And who's to say SK wouldn't jokingly reference it? I know I would. Hell, I woulda done it a long time ago. Maybe that's just me, but... And Star Wars and IJ aren't the only times someone's paid homage to something. For example, "The Day The Earth Stood Still"'s remake that was recently released. There's a scene with an Eva action figure on a desk, and the director explicitly said later in an interview that he really like Evangelion, and paid homage to it in that way. But, as I said before, the VF-2SS thing was a joke. You're not supposed to take it seriously, offensively, or anything else. It's supposed to be humorous... March, you understand, right? You're the voice of reason here, tell me you get it as a joke...
sketchley Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 (edited) (...) And Star Wars and IJ aren't the only times someone's paid homage to something. (...) Everyone jumping off of a bridge to probable death, doesn't mean that you are going to do it, right? Same holds true for Kawamori-san. Also, the comparisons are incorrect. Did the director of the remake of "the day the Earth stood still" have anything to do with "Neon Genisis Evangalion"? Was Kawamori's vision of Macross II butchered by studio execs like THX was for it's original release? I think not. But, as I said before, the VF-2SS thing was a joke. You're not supposed to take it seriously, offensively, or anything else. It's supposed to be humorous... March, you understand, right? You're the voice of reason here, tell me you get it as a joke... You do realize that everything herein is written, right? Even with emoticons, all implications that a statement is a joke is lost.* Next time, try adding [joke][/joke] tags. *It's best to keep in mind that the readers of MW come from all over the world; with different backgrounds, experiences, and perceptions of what is, or is not funny. Edited January 4, 2009 by sketchley
SchizophrenicMC Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Everyone jumping off of a bridge to probable death, doesn't mean that you are going to do it, right? Same holds true for Kawamori-san. Also, the comparisons are incorrect. Did the director of the remake of "the day the Earth stood still" have anything to do with "Neon Genisis Evangalion"? Was Kawamori's vision of Macross II butchered by studio execs like THX was for it's original release? I think not. You do realize that everything herein is written, right? Even with emoticons, all implications that a statement is a joke is lost.* Next time, try adding [joke][/joke] tags. *It's best to keep in mind that the readers of MW come from all over the world; with different backgrounds, experiences, and perceptions of what is, or is not funny. I know it's all written. That's why I add a or at the end of my joking posts.... Does a director have to have anything to do with what he's paying homage to? Did Kawamori have a vision for MacII? What does THX Sound have to do with any of this? And if everyone I knew jumped off a bridge, I tell ya, I would too. Don't tell me there's no similarities.
Mr March Posted January 4, 2009 Author Posted January 4, 2009 Oh gawd, not this argument again. The "mystery-ship-from-the-galaxy-is-a-VF-2SS" debate had us going crazy over at the MAHQ some months ago. So many fans without a clue. What a disaster Yes, the two ships are somewhat similar, but they are not the same. Is it homage? Tongue-in-cheek? Coincidence? BIG coincidence? Moving onward... Okay, I foresee another reason to buy yet ANOTHER Hasegawa VF-1, if only to kitbash that baby! That thing is sweet, a cool mix of the VF-1, the VF-2SS and the VF-4. Are there any pics of its sexy bottom? I want to see what they have under there. Nope, that's the only picture of it. Sorry.
Knight26 Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 I know it's all written. That's why I add a or at the end of my joking posts.... Does a director have to have anything to do with what he's paying homage to? Did Kawamori have a vision for MacII? What does THX Sound have to do with any of this? And if everyone I knew jumped off a bridge, I tell ya, I would too. Don't tell me there's no similarities. Saying that those look alike is a huge stretch, the configuration is similar but then so is the configuration of an SR-71. Honestly, I think it is just a light high speed non-variable courier ship, nothing more, a throw away design.
SchizophrenicMC Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Saying that those look alike is a huge stretch, the configuration is similar but then so is the configuration of an SR-71. Honestly, I think it is just a light high speed non-variable courier ship, nothing more, a throw away design. See, that's what I was saying: It's a throw-away thing only for that 3 seconds.
Lestat Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 The VF-2SS is a nice looking design, but there's no way that it's been used in an officially recognised Macross series. I can't remember reading it exactly, but I know if I was Kawamori, I'd get pretty steamed off about someone taking MY art and ideas and making a knockoff sequel. It may well have already been said. Macross II, as cool as it was in some respects, is a dead end. I would like to see the QFi9E Ghost II Phantom and VF-X3 Star Crusader from the Macross: Remember Me, Macross: Skull Leader, etc PCE games on the mecha manual. You already have the SDP-1S Stampede, why not complete it?
badboy00z Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 How did Macross II make it to production anyways? Studio Nue/ SK should've sued the creators of Macross II. Did they ever sell the rights to the name?
Lestat Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 Macross II was not done at all through Studio Nue, Big West had it made, to make more money.
SchizophrenicMC Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 Macross II was not done at all through Studio Nue, Big West had it made, to make more money. ...Was it BW? I never watched it, so I don't know the specifics, but if BW made it, then there'd be no legal trouble, as they hold the copyrights, joint with SK and Nue...
RedWolf Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 Correct but it not being a Studio Nue and Shouji Kawamori production lead them to classify it as an alternate universe.
SchizophrenicMC Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 Correct but it not being a Studio Nue and Shouji Kawamori production lead them to classify it as an alternate universe. Wull, yeah, but my point is that since BW owns the copyrights, SK and Nue had no power to stop em...
Killer Robot Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 Macross II was not done at all through Studio Nue, Big West had it made, to make more money. That's not exactly fair phrasing: they made Plus, 7, Zero, and Frontier to make more money too. As I understand, the main reason Studio Nue was not involved was that Kawamori was not interested in doing sequels at that time - a stance which he reversed for Macross Plus only when he couldn't find funding for his (originally non-Macross) plans for a series about two test pilots. Macross II despite its own problems had shown there was an immense demand for a Macross sequel, so it became easy for him to secure funding so long as he made a Macross story about two test pilots. From there, it appears he decided sequels weren't so bad after all. Mind, it's certainly reasonable for Kawamori/Studio Nue to not care about or acknowledge Macross II and its events and designs, but II is no more a cheap money grab than any of the sequels.
SchizophrenicMC Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 That's not exactly fair phrasing: they made Plus, 7, Zero, and Frontier to make more money too. As I understand, the main reason Studio Nue was not involved was that Kawamori was not interested in doing sequels at that time - a stance which he reversed for Macross Plus only when he couldn't find funding for his (originally non-Macross) plans for a series about two test pilots. Macross II despite its own problems had shown there was an immense demand for a Macross sequel, so it became easy for him to secure funding so long as he made a Macross story about two test pilots. From there, it appears he decided sequels weren't so bad after all. Mind, it's certainly reasonable for Kawamori/Studio Nue to not care about or acknowledge Macross II and its events and designs, but II is no more a cheap money grab than any of the sequels. And I'm under the impression that this is linked to the death of Hikaru's seiyuu, who had been Kawamori's close friend. I know that's why Hikaru's never shown up again, but is that also the reason he didn't want a sequel Macross?
yellowlightman Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 And I'm under the impression that this is linked to the death of Hikaru's seiyuu, who had been Kawamori's close friend. I know that's why Hikaru's never shown up again, but is that also the reason he didn't want a sequel Macross? Arihiro Hase died in 1996, well after Kawamori had worked on M+ and M7.
Killer Robot Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 And I'm under the impression that this is linked to the death of Hikaru's seiyuu, who had been Kawamori's close friend. I know that's why Hikaru's never shown up again, but is that also the reason he didn't want a sequel Macross? According to IMDB Arihiro Hase died in 1996, after the release of both Plus and 7. Though Kawamori's general policy not to revisit the same protagonists(save for alternate take movie versions like DYRL) once the plot is put to bed might be seen as the remaining element to his then policy of not wanting to revisit the same setting at all.
RedWolf Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 FYI Arihiro Hase's last role in the Macross franchise was voicing Bobby in Macross 7.
Morpheus Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 FYI Arihiro Hase's last role in the Macross franchise was voicing Bobby in Macross 7. Don't forget the twin protodevlin near the end of the series, he voiced one of them, I bet the laughing started to haunted him since then.
SchizophrenicMC Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 Well... Never mind then. I was told that he didn't ever revisit Hikaru because his close friend that voiced him died... Never heard when, never got confirmation. ... Time to check my sources again...
MegaX Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 For some weird reason this site doesn't show up pics anymore. Is it the same for everyone else, or is it just me? 0_o
RedWolf Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Looks fine to me. Maybe your memory cache is sputtering with too many processes on. You may have to clear cookies and stuff.
Mr March Posted January 13, 2009 Author Posted January 13, 2009 It's currently up, but there are outages all the time. To be honest, I've become extremely unhappy with all these outages and I am actively looking for a new webspace provider in my price range. Reliability will be the priority. When I move the site, I will naturally inform all the message boards and send updated site links to the MAHQ and Wikipedia.
DarkHawk Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Mr. March sir.........is the site gong to have the translated interviews from the this is animation and the design works books?
Mr March Posted January 20, 2009 Author Posted January 20, 2009 Not unless someone has already translated them and asks me to host. I may have a PDF file of the SK Design Works interview that I can post, but that's about it.
RedWolf Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Since the rest of us are turning up blanks where was Macross 3 mentioned?
Mr March Posted January 20, 2009 Author Posted January 20, 2009 Sorry, can't help on that one either.
DangerDan Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 Since the rest of us are turning up blanks where was Macross 3 mentioned? Um, it seems to be from a fanfic: http://www.hawkmoon.net/fanfic/notes.html Uh, hi!
Mr March Posted January 25, 2009 Author Posted January 25, 2009 ...moving an off-topic discussion to this thread Thank you March, I will give both credit and links to your site , A note about weapons, though, I already have a lot of line art from various other sources in the past, many are no longer in existence on the web, so I do want to have an example of the weapons or maybe just the gunpod. However, I will keep the image usage to a minimum as I want fans to visit your site for more references. I'll do the hosting for everything on my site because this will help keep our bandwidths low. I am trying very hard to keep my data as close to the current released information yet I feel I may need to use a little conjecture for some stuff the isn't known completely as of yet. I will note these educated guesses, in my stats. BTW Do you know what ARMD stands for? I read somewhere about 4 years ago it stood for 'All Rigged Military Deployment.' I noticed you don't have the VF-2JA, GERWALKroid, Metal Siren, and Destroids in the Macross II section. Somewhere I have line art for them but I'm not sure which hard drive it is lol. Have no worry, I will not use any M.M.M. data for any financial gain, as I only intend to make my site for fans who wish to run a dedicated Macross related game or at least not be limited to 'Robotech' canon with the new edition. I can provide some black and white versions of the gun pods for your weapon needs. I'd definitely prefer you use black and white versions of the weapons if you feel the need to use my scans. I am keeping my website as up to date as possible with the latest information released on Macross, but just so you're aware, there is unlikely to be enough complete information to create totally canon RPG versions of each valkyrie (the VF-1 Valkyire is probably the one exception). You'll have to build some stuff on your own, but you probably already knew that. If you need to guess, I'd definitely suggest using the figures for the VF-1 as a benchmark. If you have any questions, I can provide some "enthusiastic fan opinions". Also, MW member sketchley runs an extensive RPG website about Macross, so he may be able to provide some gaming advice. The Macross Zero, Macross II and Macross Frontier sections are is still being built. If you have high resolution scans of the line art from Macross II, I'll certainly take a look at what you've got. But I should warn you, I have very high requirements for my line art. I typically work with scans that are 1,200 DPI (typical drawings are about 3,000 to 4,000 pixels in size) and I down-convert them to 800-1,000 pixels for posting on my website. I appreciate you respecting the usage terms for my website. Your website sounds like a good fansite for Macross RPG fans and I hope it turns out well. Post a link if you have one.
sketchley Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) I am keeping my website as up to date as possible with the latest information released on Macross, but just so you're aware, there is unlikely to be enough complete information to create totally canon RPG versions of each valkyrie (the VF-1 Valkyire is probably the one exception). You'll have to build some stuff on your own, but you probably already knew that. If you need to guess, I'd definitely suggest using the figures for the VF-1 as a benchmark. If you have any questions, I can provide some "enthusiastic fan opinions". Also, MW member sketchley runs an extensive RPG website about Macross, so he may be able to provide some gaming advice. Thanks for the plug, and yes, using the VF-1 as a benchmark and "advancing capabilites" from there is the only way to go. The latest version of the VF-1 stats, with the most recent information available on it (canon is in green) is: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/Sketchley/S...s/VF-1/VF-1.htm (the biggest change is to the standard equipment. All the stuff in green comes from an official Macross source.) I'm hoping to find the time to revise all of the other stats with this latest "benchmark". my game stats "sourcebook": http://www.macrossroleplay.org/Sketchley/Statistics.htm another source of stats: http://unsd.macrossroleplay.org/ Lastly, any further discussion on these stats should be continued in this forum: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/forums/index.php?board=8.0 (there are other sites with forums for discussion on Macross game stats, but as this particular thread is devoted for the Macross Mecha Manual, we shouldn't continue this tangent here.) And to make this post semi-relevant to this topic... the rear firing missile launchers and internal pallets in the "transatmospheric Conformal Pallet Packs"* for the VF-11 are canon - a translation of Kawamori-san's notes** on the lineart found in "Shoji Kawamori Macross Designs Works". *I'm planning on renaming them "aerospace conformal (pallet) packs"... aerospace capturing the meaning of the Japanese better; though the same Japanese term is used on some of the (space) ships... and aerospace won't work for them. Eg: Aerospace Stealth Escort Carrier Uraga. ** man oh man, his writing is nigh illegible! Even the wife has trouble reading it. Edited January 25, 2009 by sketchley
daflip702 Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 Oy, oy, oi! Can no one on this forum take a joke? Is there no humor? This is why I'm not well-liked around here. With what I say, you got to take it with a grain of salt, and a touch of humor. Ach! Mein Gott in Himmel! You're OK Schiz...I wonder the same thing. But my jokes are far more abusive and tasteless....Mr. March should know. As what Chrono Said: "Mech tech is serious business." So i learned the precept......proceed with caution. bleh..... "Some guy was singing about a woman and her monkey. I found out what a woman's monkey was....and I was appalled" This line above expresses it all. About 70% of the time. So Mr. March....I checked your site, no line art for the MDE/Reaction missiles huh?
sketchley Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 So Mr. March....I checked your site, no line art for the MDE/Reaction missiles huh? None has been released yet.
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