Macross Mecha Manual

[SchizophrenicMC]

LOL

Except you forgot to change all five mecha to the VF-1, since they haven't actually made a new mecha design in 25 years

Wait, so Shadow Chronicles doesn't count?

[Mr March]

Robotech never counts

[ChrisG]

Hmmm... now that you say it, I believe your analysis is incorrect. Pages from Wikipedia come up first when googling up so it is obvious why it is a preferred choice, but the other sites you mention have something in common: they have more information than official sites (ie: bs). The RPG site adds information guessing untold stats, the Robotech ones adds information from Robotech sources, therefore they appear deceivingly more "complete". I don't think a wiki could properly counter this type of disadvantage.

FV

To say that Wikipedia's Macross pages are the most preferred resource for fans would be inaccurate. You have to keep in mind that when it comes to search engine rankings in Google, Wikipedia is being propped up by the hundreds of thousands (perhaps) millions of pages it has, as well as all the countless sites linking to it and the traffic it draws in. On almost any subject, Wikipedia is going to come in at the top because of all the weight that it carries. It doesn't have to fight its way to the top of those rankings the way dedicated fan sites like M3, the Compendium and MAHQ do.

[Mr March]

Some small additions; Macross 1 added to the New Macross Class profile and a Macross 11 entry added to the Macross Frontier section.

New Macross Class (now with Macross 1 picture)

Macross 11 profile (in the Macross Frontier section)

[RedWolf]

Some small additions; Macross 1 added to the New Macross Class profile and a Macross 11 entry added to the Macross Frontier section.

New Macross Class (now with Macross 1 picture)

Macross 11 profile (in the Macross Frontier section)

Cool.

Macross 11 does have er... known persons. However obscure.

Fire Bomber American

Fire Bomber American is a rock band that performs on the English-speaking ship Macross 11. They are managed and produced by Lynn Kaifunn, and have one album, called English Fire!!

Members

* Kcool V Realy: Keyboards

* Rak Nabekasi: Guitar, vocals

* June Ley Mines: Bass, vocals

* Five Fads: Drums

[Morpheus]

Fire Bomber American

Fire Bomber American is a rock band that performs on the English-speaking ship Macross 11. They are managed and produced by Lynn Kaifunn, and have one album, called English Fire!!

Members

* Kcool V Realy: Keyboards

* Rak Nabekasi: Guitar, vocals

* June Ley Mines: Bass, vocals

* Five Fads: Drums

So, Fire Bomber American members are mutant?

[Mr March]

Changes made. Thanks RedWolf

[RedWolf]

Changes made. Thanks RedWolf

You're welcome.

Oh March for geekyness completion sake I suggest the SDF-1/Macross City and the NUNS Zentradi 33rd Fleet Marines Queadol-Magdomilla and Quadraluun-Rea piloted by Temjin.

So, Fire Bomber American members are mutant?

No they are managed by Lynn Kaifun. Which is perplexing that he is still in the managing business after almost ruining Minmay's carreer.

Before Frontier Macross 11 is a place where you hear but never see. Macross English Anticipation Manga where the original Fire Bomber find out somebody is ripping their songs.

Macross Dynamite 7 where in the Zolan drama Fold Story (Zomeo and Juliet) , a Macross 11 city slicker falls in love with his local country bumpkin Zolan maid.

Pirates, smugglers and "whalers" love listening to Fire Bomber American.

Edited December 18, 2008 by RedWolf

[SchizophrenicMC]

Robotech never counts

I meant Shadow Chronicles' new mecha for Robotech doesn't count for Robotech?

Robotech, especially in my eyes, has never had anything to do with Macross. (Animation aside...)

[Mr March]

I know. I was being a cheeky little bastard

[Einherjar]

I've been looking around the site and came across this old page with some mechs not yet covered in the main Macross Mecha Manual site.

http://www.new-un-spacy.com/mecha_and_destroids.htm

Looks like there's some stuff from Macross II, Zero and others. Nice model kit pics, btw. Is there enough information from official sources and online to upload them on the site eventually?

[Morpheus]

Macross Chronicle is one of the official publication now which are being used for new information, and we have a translator corps consisting of Gubaba's ( ) eating through all the kanji on the book.

[sketchley]

(...) translator corps consisting of Gubaba's ( ) eating through all the kanji on the book.

*cough* me too *cough*

[Mr March]

I've been looking around the site and came across this old page with some mechs not yet covered in the main Macross Mecha Manual site.

http://www.new-un-spacy.com/mecha_and_destroids.htm

Looks like there's some stuff from Macross II, Zero and others. Nice model kit pics, btw. Is there enough information from official sources and online to upload them on the site eventually?

As line art becomes available, I'll be adding more Macross Zero entries (currently working on Asuka and Octos). More Macross II mecha will be added as well, including the destroids. Most of the other mecha on that page will not be added.

[Kamikazi]

As line art becomes available, I'll be adding more Macross Zero entries (currently working on Asuka and Octos). More Macross II mecha will be added as well, including the destroids. Most of the other mecha on that page will not be added.

Excellent! Looking forward to them!

You don't happen to have the old files on the Meltrandi Factory Satellite from the old Quartermaster's site?

[Mr March]

Meltrandi Factory Satellite? Didn't even know there was one. You should send briscojr84 a PM and ask him, since he takes care of the QM site.

But speaking of Factory Satellites, I'll be adding this one from VF-X2 in the next update.

[sketchley]

Finished the VF-4 stats: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/Sketchley/S.../VF-4/VF-4.html

Yeah, I know your policy, however I've put everything canon in green. Just avoid the black text.

[Mr March]

That's okay, it looks good.

[oreillyrel]

Finished the VF-4 stats: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/Sketchley/S.../VF-4/VF-4.html

Yeah, I know your policy, however I've put everything canon in green. Just avoid the black text.

Much of the green text is not actually canon information. They were added to the Japanese wikipedia article by an anonymous editor without sources.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ラ|...12540;ズ)

Edited December 22, 2008 by oreillyrel

[anime52k8]

I've always wondered, what's the story behind this image?

like where did it come from and all that.

[DarkReaper]

Weren't early VF-4 prototypes sharing 80% or so of their parts with the VF-1? Maybe thats a sketch of one of those.

[dizman]

Hmmm probably an early version used to test if the transformation was even possible for the VF-4, maybe the VF-3?

[RedWolf]

Isn't that one of the illustrations in Macross Perfect Memory?

I guessed it was one of the VF-X 4 prototypes. Another representation of the VF-X 4 has different wings.

[Kurisama]

Looks very much like a VF-2SS - maybe this is the inspiration for it?

[sketchley]

Much of the green text is not actually canon information. They were added to the Japanese wikipedia article by an anonymous editor without sources.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ラ|...12540;ズ)

I am not disagreeing completely with your assertion. However, I did not rely solely on that article. All references used are:

Macross: Flashback 2012

Macross Flashback 2012 Graffiti: Pg. 20, 25, 32, 33, 54-56

Macross VF-X Missions

Macross Digital Missions VF-X

Shoji Kawamori Macross Design Works

The ライトニングIII (マクロスシリーズ) Wikipedia Article

The Macross Compendium VF-4 listing

and I forgot to add Model Graphix #290.

[sketchley]

Isn't that one of the illustrations in Macross Perfect Memory?

I guessed it was one of the VF-X 4 prototypes. Another representation of the VF-X 4 has different wings.

That'd be the VF-X-3.

Is the other version referred to this one? http://www.robotechresearch.com/rpg/mecha/...ing/vf_x_4.html

It should be noted that both the VF-X-3 and VF-X-4 are limited to fighter and gerwalk modes, only.

[oreillyrel]

I am not disagreeing completely with your assertion. However, I did not rely solely on that article. All references used are:

and I forgot to add Model Graphix #290.

Model Graphix #290 has a disclaimer on page 10 that says that materials that appears in Model Graphix but not in actual official material is solely the magazine's and unofficial. Essentially, anything that's only in the Wikipedia or only in Model Graphix is not canon.

[oreillyrel]

That'd be the VF-X-3.

Actually, Macross Perfect Memory never labeled it as the VF-X-3. That's fan speculation.

Is the other version referred to this one? http://www.robotechresearch.com/rpg/mecha/...ing/vf_x_4.html

It should be noted that both the VF-X-3 and VF-X-4 are limited to fighter and gerwalk modes, only.

That 2-mode-only claim comes from the Wikipedia article.

Edited December 22, 2008 by oreillyrel

[sketchley]

Macross Perfect Memory Pg 68 VFX-3, VFX-4 mentioned.

(same) Pg 160 VF-X-4 mentioned and lineart shown leaving only the VF-X-3 unclear.

and from the Compendium "Since the VF-X-3 was developed primarily from the VF-1 Valkyrie's designs,"

The image shown looks primarily like the VF-1, does it not?

Re: 2 mode limitations: again, refer to the artwork provided. Multiple sources, eh.

Nevertheless, it looks like we're reaching the point where we'll disagree until we get a Macross Chronicle article on it. If one is planned, that is...

[oreillyrel]

Macross Perfect Memory Pg 68 VFX-3, VFX-4 mentioned.

(same) Pg 160 VF-X-4 mentioned and lineart shown leaving only the VF-X-3 unclear.

and from the Compendium "Since the VF-X-3 was developed primarily from the VF-1 Valkyrie's designs,"

The image shown looks primarily like the VF-1, does it not?

That's the dangerous part of speculation--assuming from what is unclear and jumping to conclusions. The official info on the VF-4 program say that it also has more than one prototype of varying degrees of VF-1 parts use. Stating "That'd be the VF-X-3" is jumping to a conclusion.

Re: 2 mode limitations: again, refer to the artwork provided. Multiple sources, eh.

There is no currently official source that states that it is "limited to fighter and gerwalk modes, only." There is a difference between stating that it can do at least two modes, and it stating it can do two modes, "only."

Nevertheless, it looks like we're reaching the point where we'll disagree until we get a Macross Chronicle article on it. If one is planned, that is...

Until then, people should be more careful of asserting that a source states more than it really does.

[sketchley]

That's the dangerous part of speculation--assuming from what is unclear and jumping to conclusions. The official info on the VF-4 program say that it also has more than one prototype of varying degrees of VF-1 parts use. Stating "That'd be the VF-X-3" is jumping to a conclusion.

There is no currently official source that states that it is "limited to fighter and gerwalk modes, only." There is a difference between stating that it can do at least two modes, and it stating it can do two modes, "only."

Until then, people should be more careful of asserting that a source states more than it really does.

Please refer to TiaS: Macross Plus pgs 66, 67. It should be kept in mind that the source text is in Japanese. A language with different characteristics than English. One of the big differences is the lack of a need to repeat the subject once it has been firmly established.

There is, of course, the probability of a mistranslation, as I did only a scanlation and not a proper translation of the text in question. Nevertheless, this is another example of there being sources to the information in addition to the wiki article.

Looking back to the start of this debate, I find it amusing that much of the information in it can also be found in the Compendium, yet you still posted:

Much of the green text is not actually canon information. (...)

It begs the question, have you checked any of the other sources cited?

Re: the VF-X-3 and two modes: Shoji Kawamori Macross Design Works pg 66. However, I'll accept the point and rephrase things to be less... pessimistic.

Edited December 22, 2008 by sketchley

[oreillyrel]

Please refer to TiaS: Macross Plus pgs 66, 67. It should be kept in mind that the source text is in Japanese. A language with different characteristics than English. One of the big differences is the lack of a need to repeat the subject once it has been firmly established.

There is, of course, the probability of a mistranslation, as I did only a scanlation and not a proper translation of the text in question. Nevertheless, this is another example of there being sources to the information in addition to the wiki article.

Yes, there is a possibility of a mistranslation. TiaS: Macross Plus pgs 66, 67 do not state that the image on Macross Perfect Memory is the VF-X-3, nor does it state that either the VF-X-3 or the VF-X-4 is "limited to fighter and gerwalk modes, only."

Looking back to the start of this debate, I find it amusing that much of the information in it can also be found in the Compendium, yet you still posted:

It begs the question, have you checked any of the other sources cited?

Yes, I have checked the sources cited. Yes, there is much information that is misidentified as canon in that macrossroleplay page, but is not in the Compendium or any official source.

Re: the VF-X-3 and two modes: Shoji Kawamori Macross Design Works pg 66. However, I'll accept the point and rephrase things to be less... pessimistic.

Shoji Kawamori Macross Design Works pg 66 does not state that the VF-X-3 has two modes or has two modes only. It doesn't say anything about the VF-X-3. The claim that "both the VF-X-3 and VF-X-4 are limited to fighter and gerwalk modes, only" comes directly from the Japanese Wikipedia page and not an official source.

Edited December 22, 2008 by oreillyrel

[Mr March]

Point being, the more people we have working on translations, the better. It acts as checks and balances against just this sort of thing.

As for the position of the Macross Mecha Manual, I kinda have to stick to what is readily available in published materials and what happens in the anime productions. Less is more in the case of official Macross fact. Other websites will have their own mandates.

But since we're on the subject, where would the details taken from the line art in the 1/72 Musasiya VF-4 model kit stand as far as official vs. unofficial? These are the digital photos I have on my website in the VF-4 Profile (bottom of the page under line art)

[Mr March]

Posted for azrael.

Here you are:

[TheLoneWolf]

As for the position of the Macross Mecha Manual, I kinda have to stick to what is readily available in published materials and what happens in the anime productions.

I completely agree about sticking with published materials, but does the MMM diffentiate between published canon materials (ie: Perfect Memory) verses published non-canon materials (ie: Model Graphix #290)? I'm pretty certain it's the former, but just want to double-check.

But since we're on the subject, where would the details taken from the line art in the 1/72 Musasiya VF-4 model kit stand as far as official vs. unofficial? These are the digital photos I have on my website in the VF-4 Profile (bottom of the page under line art)

As far as official goes, I'd say that they are. Unless I'm mistaken, that line art bears the signature of Shoji Kawamori. Plus, the Big West sticker indicates that the kit has been officially sanctioned by Big West. As far as canon goes, I don't know. It's been a long time since that line art was published and the name "Siren" has been dropped in favor of "Lightning III," who know what else (possibly nothing) Kawamori has changed since then.