sketchley Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 Even the name is made up. TIAS MII has the following text about it: Marduk new model mecha: battroid form Marduk new model mecha: fighter form and... the nozels at the front/top ends of the legs are a "beam gun". It's possible that some more detailed (ie: more Japanese notes present) artwork exists. But...
Zinjo Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 It's possible that some more detailed (ie: more Japanese notes present) artwork exists. But... Saito Kaiba is the infrequent resident expert on Mac II. He apparently has been seeking out and translating any and all Mac II info for several years. Thus far I have not heard any mention of that mecha having a name or stats... Much like the Zentran VF-XX, it was cool design that showed up as a blip in the show...
TheLoneWolf Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 (edited) TIAS MII has the following text about it: Marduk new model mecha: battroid form Marduk new model mecha: fighter form It's possible that some more detailed (ie: more Japanese notes present) artwork exists. But... I just checked Entertainment Bible 51 and I believe it might have a slightly different name in that book. I use the words "I believe" because my Japanese is pretty bad, but I can at least make out "Mardook new ... mecha" in the name. The EB 51 name for it has two more kanji characters that the TIAS name, and I don't know what they translate to. Zinjo, I forgot to mention this, but I think you (and Palladium) were right about "Squires" being the name for the automated attack drones. EB 51 has that katakana name for it and the romanization is pretty darn close to "squire." Edited October 30, 2008 by TheLoneWolf
RedWolf Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 LoneWolf while you're at it. What's the exact length of the Macross Cannon?
d3v Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 (edited) IF only we could find actual original japanese lineart for it as well as an official name for what is now for all intents and purposes a marduk foo fighter (or at the very least we could all agree on what to call it for now). Edited October 30, 2008 by d3v
Morpheus Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 LoneWolf while you're at it. What's the exact length of the Macross Cannon? The newest Macross Chronicle (Vol. have an article about Macross Cannon, they mentioned its length is around 6000 meter.
RedWolf Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 The newest Macross Chronicle (Vol. have an article about Macross Cannon, they mentioned its length is around 6000 meter. It wouldn't have the height for attacker mode would it? Using the incorrect stats from RPG sourcebook... (245m x 6000m)/488 ~= 3012 m approximately in Attacker mode. A NMC is 1,177 m in attacker mode.
d3v Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 It wouldn't have the height for attacker mode would it? Using the incorrect stats from RPG sourcebook... (245m x 6000m)/488 ~= 3012 m approximately in Attacker mode. A NMC is 1,177 m in attacker mode. Actually, Iw as thinking that if we used the size a Nupetietz-Verginitz as reference, we can probably come up with a good guess.
Mr March Posted October 30, 2008 Author Posted October 30, 2008 Awesome, more useful new figures from the Chronicle. Must make a note of this 6,000 meter length and correct the M3 next update
Seto Kaiba Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 (edited) Tapping that font of knowledge one more time... please bear with me, as I'm dead on my feet right now, and having a pretty crappy day... IF only we could find actual original japanese lineart for it as well as an official name for what is now for all intents and purposes a marduk foo fighter (or at the very least we could all agree on what to call it for now). Insofar as the Mardook variable fighter goes... it has no real name. About all the canon information we have on it has it as a two-mode variable fighter/power armor with a full-size Zentradi pilot, and some rather vague details about its armament. I wouldn't call it a foo fighter though... it shows up in two of the six episodes, and Nexx kills one personally with his Metal Siren's plasma spear. Certain english sources have referred to it alternately as the Mardook Megafighter and Mardook Annihilator, but neither name is official. As far as the size of the Macross Cannons goes... that's been a matter open to speculation for a while now. Palladium Books claimed it was 488 meters long in their RPG. EB51 and TIAS5 offer no real clues to the ship's size, other than that it's enormous, at least as long as the Nupetiet Vergnitzs-class fleet command battleship, and five or more times as wide. Several people have done perspective-based calculations using the large numbers of Zentradi picket ships in the foreground and background as reference points, and pretty consistently come up with numbers in excess of 5000 meters for the ship's length in cruiser mode. When last I reviewed the numbers, the mean result for the size of the Macross Cannons was 5300-5500 meters (with 5360 meters being a frequently recurring value). However, it would not surprise me in the least if the Macross Cannon did turn out to be even larger, and tip the scales around 6000 meters. Of course, if such is the case and they really are 6000m long, that means that the orbital space station they dock at (which looks suspiciously similar to Boddole Zer's mothership from the TV series) is much larger than previously predicted... making it maybe 12-15km across the short axis, and 30km or more across the long axis. Edited October 30, 2008 by Seto Kaiba
TheLoneWolf Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 LoneWolf while you're at it. What's the exact length of the Macross Cannon? Like Seto Kaiba said, EB51 doesn't give any numbers. Seto Kaiba, does the text specifically say that a full size Zentradi soldier pilots the Mardook new model mecha? In the animation I remember seeing a Zentradi pilot, but I assumed that he was micronized. The Mardook must really be cruel if they're putting a full size Zentradi warrior into a transformable mecha that's around the same size as the Metal Siren. Even with the Mardook new model mecha's relatively simple transformation, the Zentradi pilot would probably have to fold his body in half in fighter mode. And Regult pilots thought they had it bad!
Zinjo Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 Zinjo, I forgot to mention this, but I think you (and Palladium) were right about "Squires" being the name for the automated attack drones. EB 51 has that katakana name for it and the romanization is pretty darn close to "squire." They are referred to as both, Auto Attack Bits and Squires... The second is possibly the a "nickname" like the F-14 being called the "Tomcat"...
Mr March Posted October 30, 2008 Author Posted October 30, 2008 Yes, I'm sorry I didn't post it, but I believe Seto had previously told me they go by both names. I don't have any high resolution line art for the AAB/Squires, so I didn't add them. But I'll try to get some and make the addition. As an added note, anything I add to the Macross Mecha Manual from the Chronicle is going to be in a different color text, just to help distinguish it and create a fact trail until the whole thing is published.
d3v Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 (edited) Of course, if such is the case and they really are 6000m long, that means that the orbital space station they dock at (which looks suspiciously similar to Boddole Zer's mothership from the TV series) is much larger than previously predicted... making it maybe 12-15km across the short axis, and 30km or more across the long axis. Yes, that "station" does look suspiciously like a Fulbtzs-Berrentz. It wouldn't surprise me if it was converted to a space station by the NUNS. Edited October 31, 2008 by d3v
RedWolf Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Not exactly scientific. Using my fingers here. If we are to assume that the main gun shoulders are 4000 m then the height of the Macross Cannon is around 4000 m.
Seto Kaiba Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Seto Kaiba, does the text specifically say that a full size Zentradi soldier pilots the Mardook new model mecha? In the animation I remember seeing a Zentradi pilot, but I assumed that he was micronized. The Mardook must really be cruel if they're putting a full size Zentradi warrior into a transformable mecha that's around the same size as the Metal Siren. Even with the Mardook new model mecha's relatively simple transformation, the Zentradi pilot would probably have to fold his body in half in fighter mode. And Regult pilots thought they had it bad! No, the text says nothing about the pilot, except that the mecha has a crew of one Zentradi soldier. From the animation, it looks like the pilot is either scrunched up like a Regult pilot, or is sort of squatting, like a Queadluun-Rea pilot. The animation used for the pilot is pretty much identical to all the other Mardook-controlled Zentradi pilots, so I don't think he's a miclone. The cockpit is in the mecha's rather bulbous torso, which I'm guessing is probably about the same size as the "head" of the Esbeliben Regult, if not slightly larger. The unnamed Mardook VF does look to be somewhat closer to the VF-2SS in size. The Metal Siren's actually a full head shorter than the VF-2SS and VF-2JA in battroid mode in the size comparison, making it probably one of the smallest VFs in all of Macross. They are referred to as both, Auto Attack Bits and Squires... The second is possibly the a "nickname" like the F-14 being called the "Tomcat"... Zinjo is correct. The Auto-Attack Bits following the VF-2SS around in episode one are alternately referred to as Auto-Attack(er) Bits and Squires in the source material. Though I would say Auto-Attack Bit is the type of mecha, and "Squire" is probably the unit's name. Yes, I'm sorry I didn't post it, but I believe Seto had previously told me they go by both names. I don't have any high resolution line art for the AAB/Squires, so I didn't add them. But I'll try to get some and make the addition. I'm afraid I won't be of much help on that note either, as only one piece of lineart seems to exist for the AAB/Squire unit, a rather simple sketch of the mecha from three different angles, totally unlabeled. That same sketch was reprinted, totally unaltered, in the Palladium RPG, for those who don't have access to EB51 and TIAS5. Yes, that "station" does look suspiciously like a Fulbtzs-Berrentz. It wouldn't surprise me if it was converted to a space station by the NUNS. While it looks suspiciously similar to a Fulbtzs-Berrentz mothership, there's no way it can be. It's several orders of magnitude smaller than Boddole Zer's Fulbtzs-Berrentz mothership from the TV series, and appears to only be about a dozen kilometers wide and maybe thirty kilometers tall. It seems to have just been inserted as a homage to the original series. The dialogue refers to it as "Macross Cannon Base", and its exterior is dotted with docking umbilicals for Macross Cannons (several are seen to be docked there).
Morpheus Posted November 1, 2008 Posted November 1, 2008 While it looks suspiciously similar to a Fulbtzs-Berrentz mothership, there's no way it can be. It's several orders of magnitude smaller than Boddole Zer's Fulbtzs-Berrentz mothership from the TV series, and appears to only be about a dozen kilometers wide and maybe thirty kilometers tall. It seems to have just been inserted as a homage to the original series. The dialogue refers to it as "Macross Cannon Base", and its exterior is dotted with docking umbilicals for Macross Cannons (several are seen to be docked there). One more thing to add, the Chronicle mentioned there are 4 Macross Cannon in active service in "Bulaze?" fleet, probably Nexx commanding officer on board the Gloria. There are also 2 other Macross Cannon in reserve, which makes total of 6 Macross Cannon in existance at that time. I hope Gubaba or others could provide better translation on this article.
azrael Posted November 1, 2008 Posted November 1, 2008 One more thing to add, the Chronicle mentioned there are 4 Macross Cannon in active service in "Bulaze?" fleet, probably Nexx commanding officer on board the Gloria. There are also 2 other Macross Cannon in reserve, which makes total of 6 Macross Cannon in existance at that time. I hope Gubaba or others could provide better translation on this article. Well, it sounds like they followed the anime. IIRC, they had 4 Macross Cannons in use against the main Marduk fleet and 2 more were on the way.
Seto Kaiba Posted November 1, 2008 Posted November 1, 2008 One more thing to add, the Chronicle mentioned there are 4 Macross Cannon in active service in "Bulaze?" fleet, probably Nexx commanding officer on board the Gloria. There are also 2 other Macross Cannon in reserve, which makes total of 6 Macross Cannon in existance at that time. I hope Gubaba or others could provide better translation on this article. Actually, it's the Balzae fleet, it's one of those weird romanizations. Captain Balzae's name was changed to Bataze in the english dub to make it easier to pronounce. His fleet was referred to in the series dialogue as the 12th Group, though he doesn't appear to be Nexx's commanding officer. Unfortunately, most of what was in the Macross Cannon article was old news. A brief dialogue exchange between Captain Balzae and one of his bridge officers revealed that the New U.N. Spacy had at least six Macross Cannons prior to the final fleet engagement of the war. The dialogue is worded such that it implies there may have been more than six ships of that class though. The only new information was the size being approximately 6000 meters.
TheLoneWolf Posted November 2, 2008 Posted November 2, 2008 Yes, I'm sorry I didn't post it, but I believe Seto had previously told me they go by both names. I don't have any high resolution line art for the AAB/Squires, so I didn't add them. But I'll try to get some and make the addition. Check your email. I just sent you a scan of the AAB/Squire from Entertainment Bible 51. Seto Kaiba, going back to your Mardook/Protoculture theory, have you checked the linear notes of the MII laserdiscs for any evidence? I was just going over them and I see a few Mardook references, but I can't make out what exactly was written.
Mr March Posted November 3, 2008 Author Posted November 3, 2008 Thanks TheLoneWolf. The scan is a little small, but I'll take it. I seem to recall they are the same color as the SAP system. I'll clean it up, color it and post it. Thanks again.
Seto Kaiba Posted November 3, 2008 Posted November 3, 2008 Seto Kaiba, going back to your Mardook/Protoculture theory, have you checked the linear notes of the MII laserdiscs for any evidence? I was just going over them and I see a few Mardook references, but I can't make out what exactly was written. Unfortunately, I don't have the laserdisc release of Macross II: Lovers Again, so I don't have access to those liner notes. I have the original US Renditions subtitled OVA release on VHS, the US Renditions subtitled movie release on VHS, the Manga Entertainment re-release of the movie on VHS, and the Manga Entertainment DVD release. Laserdisc went bust as a format when I was still in my mid-teens, and the only laserdisc movie I've ever watched was Star Wars ep4. I'd imagine the liner notes booklet is on the large side, but if you can scan it, I can add it to the queue of things waiting to be translated. However, I'd be inclined to say that they're probably just episode summaries.
Gubaba Posted November 3, 2008 Posted November 3, 2008 One more thing to add, the Chronicle mentioned there are 4 Macross Cannon in active service in "Bulaze?" fleet, probably Nexx commanding officer on board the Gloria. There are also 2 other Macross Cannon in reserve, which makes total of 6 Macross Cannon in existance at that time. I hope Gubaba or others could provide better translation on this article. Translating mecha stuff gives me hives...too many kanji that my dictionaries don't have (because, SURPRISE! they weren't expecting that anyone would have any need to find words relating to sci-fi military hardware). But glancing over the page in question, I notcied that they said that there are six CONFIRMED Macross Cannons...so there might be more (maybe guarding emigration fleets? Who here wants to see the Battle Frontier vs. Battle Galaxy boxing match re-enacted with Macross Cannons? ) Actually, the Macross II Warships page looks relatively do-able (as opposed to, say, the endless VF-1J pages), so I might get around to it. It's not high on my list of stuff to translate from Chronicle, however, so you may have to wait a while. Sorry.
TheLoneWolf Posted November 3, 2008 Posted November 3, 2008 Thanks TheLoneWolf. The scan is a little small, but I'll take it. I seem to recall they are the same color as the SAP system. I'll clean it up, color it and post it. Thanks again. Sorry, but the image was pretty small and that was the best that I could do at 400dpi. And the Squire's actually a bit darker than the teal portions of the SAP armor. If you add about 2 or 3 shades of light grey to that teal then you'll have it. I'd imagine the liner notes booklet is on the large side, but if you can scan it, I can add it to the queue of things waiting to be translated. However, I'd be inclined to say that they're probably just episode summaries. Yeah, they're probably just episode summaries, but I'm hoping that Protoculture Addicts writer actually got his information from somewhere instead of just making an educated guess. I should have the scans done by the end of the week, just PM me your e-mail address and I'll send them over.
Mr March Posted November 3, 2008 Author Posted November 3, 2008 Sorry, but the image was pretty small and that was the best that I could do at 400dpi. And the Squire's actually a bit darker than the teal portions of the SAP armor. If you add about 2 or 3 shades of light grey to that teal then you'll have it. That's alright. I'll take what I can get. But you know me, I'm always on the look out for high resolution scans to keep the M3 in top form I've completed coloring the AAB/Squires, I've updated the VF-2SS Valkyrie II SAP web page and uploaded them all. Make sure to hite REFRESH when you visit: http://www.new-un-spacy.com/macross2/vf-2ss-sap.htm Turned out not too shabby
Zinjo Posted November 3, 2008 Posted November 3, 2008 Actually, it's the Balzae fleet, it's one of those weird romanizations. Captain Balzae's name was changed to Bataze in the english dub to make it easier to pronounce. His fleet was referred to in the series dialogue as the 12th Group, though he doesn't appear to be Nexx's commanding officer. I got the impression that he was some sort of war hero that everyone in the military looked up to. You don't get command of a flagship if you are a green commander. I didn't get the sense he was Nexx's commander either.
TheLoneWolf Posted November 3, 2008 Posted November 3, 2008 Turned out not too shabby That was FAST! I'm beginning to think that you do have a soft spot for MII after all.
Mr March Posted November 3, 2008 Author Posted November 3, 2008 That was FAST! I'm beginning to think that you do have a soft spot for MII after all. Well, it is easier to find enjoyment in the mecha than the show itself But seriously, small additions like the AABs are very easy to complete. Coloring takes about 5 minutes, add a line of text to the VF-2ss webpage and then upload. Done. It's the more involved material that takes a while, like the color coded transformation guides. Spent most of the week doing those. I've got the following 14 completed: VF-1J Valkyrie SV-51 VF-4 Lightning III VF-3000 Crusader VF-9 Cutlass VF-5000B Star Mirage VF-14 Vampire VF-11B Thunderbolt Az-130A Panerzorene FBz-99G Saubergeran Fz-109A Elgerzorene Fz-109F Elgerzorene VB-6 Konig Monster VF-2SS Valkyrie II The transformation guides still left to do are: VF-0A Phoenix Neo-Glaug/Variable Glaug VA-3 Invader VF-17D Nightmare YF-19 VF-19F Excalibur YF-21 VF-22 Sturmvogel II
Sulendil Ang Posted November 4, 2008 Posted November 4, 2008 March: Good to hear about the transformation pictures. So be a good boy and work up the rest, ok? BTW, I remember you said that there's going to be a profile update to G&A section. I wonder what new VF you wanted to added to that section?
Mr March Posted November 4, 2008 Author Posted November 4, 2008 I'm going to hit you. Really hard. Repeatedly. And I'm going to enjoy it. Mentally. Physically. Sexually! The major goodies added to the Game & Advanced Valkyrie section will be the VF-4G Lightning III in Max and Milia colors. The VF-4 specifically is going to enjoy a lot of attention site wide in the next update, including revised artwork in the Flashback 2012 section, revised index button, added line art with transformation scans and I'm including colored schematics of the VF-4 fighter. Also in the G&A section, I'm adding the player two colors for the VB-6 Konig Monster. It's going to look so purty
Sulendil Ang Posted November 4, 2008 Posted November 4, 2008 March: Wow, I'm looking forward for the next update! So when do you think will the update come? This month's end? And I challenge you to fly here and kick me. I'm NOT going to pay the ticket.
Mr March Posted November 4, 2008 Author Posted November 4, 2008 Hehehe, aw, you're no fun Not sure when the update is coming. I'm hoping in a few weeks.
Morpheus Posted November 5, 2008 Posted November 5, 2008 Good job on those updates Mr.March. Now for the commentaries On the technical data sheet you use "Government", but this is becoming awkward when used on S.M.S. mecha since S.M.S. is no government body. My suggestion is to replace "Government" with "Operator". Btw, will you put the Vajra "Super" Queen on the Vajra mecha section?
Seto Kaiba Posted November 6, 2008 Posted November 6, 2008 (edited) I think there may be an error on the Meltrandi Gunboat page in your DYRL section. Exactly what source did you use for the length of Milia 639's gunship? I was answering a friend's question about Meltrandi ship retcons, and made mention of Chlore's gunboat. As I didn't have my copy of TIA-11 on me, I consulted your site's DYRL section and the size you had for it just didn't seem right. Acting on a hunch, I pulled up my scans of TIA-11 page 92 (the DYRL ship size comparison) and using Photoshop, compared the ship against the SDF-1 in storm attacker mode. The size comparison has all the ships drawn to the same scale, with the Meltrandi gunship being 203px long, and the SDF-1 being 190px long. Working from the pre- and post-refit SDF-1 dimensions, we can establish the scale at 1px = 6.368m by the pre-refit dimensions, and 1px = 6.316m by the post-refit dimensions. With that, we can establish the size of the Meltrandi gunship as being between 1282m and 1293m (depending on whether you're using the post-refit or pre-refit size of the SDF-1), not the 1,800m given in your article. If you measure from the back of the engines instead of the fins on the ship's ventral hull (which extend past the engines) the ship's size is about 1270m. Is there a source I missed that offers a concrete statement of 1,800m as the size? Edited November 6, 2008 by Seto Kaiba
Mr March Posted November 6, 2008 Author Posted November 6, 2008 Morpheus Hmm, perhaps. I could just put something like "no government (private company, Strategic Military Services). Otherwise something like Faction might work well as a catch-all category. It would also work to describe the whale poachers in Macross Dynamite 7. I don't have any information or shots of the Vajra Super Queen (is that the name?) as yet, so I haven't added it. And before you ask, the Battle Galaxy scan that went around is too small to use as well, which is why it's not been added. The Frontier section will eventually receive an overhaul, but it's a waiting game now. No statistics or trivia is being released for any of the Macross Frontier mecha, hopefully meaning they will eventually show up in the Macross Chronicle or another book is being published. We just have to hope such a published source of information appears sooner rather than later. Seto Kaiba
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