Macross Mecha Manual

[DarkHawk]

IS there going to be any information about the EX-Gear put on the website?

[SchizophrenicMC]

Ooh, I didn't think about the Ex-gear. Well, Mr March?

Btw, I love you, March. (No homo. I just really appreciate the M3! )

[edwin3060]

Oh... I guess I'm just of the generation of internet users who are used to seeing all their fansites in html rather than wiki! Makes me feel old

[yellowlightman]

Since you're not keen on the idea of letting others edit your stuff, maybe a wiki isn't the way to go. Since seems to implement a wiki design when you won't be using it for it's intended purpose.

What about a content management system? Templates would help you cut down on the hand editing of HTML and make things easier, but allow for easier searching and all that good stuff.

[Final Vegeta]

Oh... I guess I'm just of the generation of internet users who are used to seeing all their fansites in html rather than wiki! Makes me feel old

I too like the M3 as it is. Wikies actually look less professional. Also, keep in mind that people like wikies because they can contribute, if they can't contribute there is no point in a wiki.

FV

[Sulendil Ang]

Me three! I also love the current 'build' the M3 is using now. I think like edwin, I just prefer to use HTML then Wiki. Not to said that wiki is bad per se, but I think HTML serves M3's purposes quite well, so it's the old mantra of 'if it's not broken, don't fix it' line.

[Mr March]

Darkhawk

I could see adding an EX-Gear profile. Just need some good line art.

SchizoMC

"Terminator: I love you too, sweetheart"

edwin

That's one of the reasons for going to a wiki interface, because the majority of current internet users are younger people that aren't big on html sites anymore. And with anime franchises like Macross, they always cater to younger audiences, so I feel perhaps the fansites should do so as well.

yellowlightman

Like I said, the move to a wiki would be to gain traffic simply via the format, not for any open content advantages. Most end users simply prefer a familiar interface; people are people and they go with what they know, what's popular, what's easy. There are plenty of wikis that are staff only editing; it's just odd to have a staff of one. Most internet users visit wikis just out of habit now because they are the standard and they don't even contribute. It's just the way the internet has evolved. So despite a lack of user editing, there is still much to gain from a wiki simply via format.

Sulendil Ang

That's the problem; the M3 is only reaching a small portion of the fans. Those that prefer html are in the older minority and if I want to increase visibility of the M3, the solution is a wiki. But as I said, even if I do move the M3 to a wiki, I'd maintain the permanent html site indefinitely on the same server. I wouldn't want to lose all the graphics, buttons, menu bars and layout that I myself prefer. I'd want to gain everything and lose nothing with the move. I'm greedy that way

Actually, a hilarious exercise would be to open the M3-wiki version for editing to anyone while leaving the M3-html online and see what happens

[Gubaba]

Actually, a hilarious exercise would be to open the M3-wiki version for editing to anyone while leaving the M3-html online and see what happens

Isn't that essentially what's happened with the Compendium?

If you do that, I promise to personally go through and change everything to Robotech names, and replace all of the information on the VF-19 Kai with the words "Dude...it's got a FACE! What else do you need to know?"

[Mr March]

LOL

Nah, the Compendium is okay. It's got Egan and Azrael keeping watch and it's worked out well.

[Gubaba]

LOL

Nah, the Compendium is okay. It's got Egan and Azrael keeping watch and it's worked out well.

But it IS a wiki that anyone who signs in can add to, and I haven't seen any vandalism or erroneous information creeping in (although some of the questions on the discussion pages are pretty bizarre, like the guy asking if Minmay was related to Sara and Mao, or some such).

In other words, you could make it an open wiki, and I bet there'd be little or no vandalism. Like the Compendium, anyone likely to visit M3 probably has a deep respect for it, and wouldn't want to be the guy who screws it up....although you might get some interesting "Pimp My Valkyrie" entries

[TheLoneWolf]

That's the problem; the M3 is only reaching a small portion of the fans.

Just curious, but how are you gauging those numbers?

In other words, you could make it an open wiki, and I bet there'd be little or no vandalism.

You're right, I've seen very little vandalism on the Macross Wikipedia pages. Most of the edits I've seen on those articles are well-meant, unfortunately most of them are also written in very poor English. Either all the editors are dyslexic, or English is not their first language.

Edited December 15, 2008 by TheLoneWolf

[Gubaba]

You're right, I've seen very little vandalism on the Macross Wikipedia pages. Most of the edits I've seen on those articles are well-meant, unfortunately most of them are also written in very poor English. Either all the editors are dyslexic, or English is not their first language.

I've noticed that, too...I imported nearly all of the record and CD entries from the old Compendium to the new, and was rather puzzled about what to do with the word "releaser," which of course isn't a real word. At firrst, I decided to leave it (since it's Egan's site, not mine), but later I wished that I had changed it. By that time, though, I'd almost finished importing the entries and didn't really feel like going back and fixing the previous pages.

[SchizophrenicMC]

The way I see it, if the M3 remains HTML, its information remains pure. If it goes wiki, ANYONE can edit it however they want. Not saying vandalism, just inadvertantly incorrect info. And everyone speaks internet or Engrish.

[TheLoneWolf]

I've noticed that, too...I imported nearly all of the record and CD entries from the old Compendium to the new, and was rather puzzled about what to do with the word "releaser," which of course isn't a real word. At firrst, I decided to leave it (since it's Egan's site, not mine), but later I wished that I had changed it. By that time, though, I'd almost finished importing the entries and didn't really feel like going back and fixing the previous pages.

Actually, I was referring to Wikipedia's Macross articles, not the Compendium wiki. I haven't looked too closely at the new Compendium yet.

[Dante74]

The way I see it, if the M3 remains HTML, its information remains pure. If it goes wiki, ANYONE can edit it however they want. Not saying vandalism, just inadvertantly incorrect info. And everyone speaks internet or Engrish.

seconded. Anyway Macross Mecha Manual has a nice ring to it, Macross Mecha Wikipedia just sounds weird.

[sketchley]

Awhile back MrMarch was asking about the rocket engines of the VF-4. I cited an article in Model Graphics No. 290 that states that the VF-4 has thermonuclear turbine engines, rocket engines, and ramjet engines.

I've found confirmation on the ramjet engines: http://www.new-un-spacy.com/flashback2012/vf-4/vf-4-la3.jpg

(Upper left image, text next to arrow pointing at open port on rear of inner wing fuselage. I also like the nuke symbol on the lower right nacelle image.)

Shame that higher quality scans of these images don't exist...

[Mr March]

Update Addendum

Okay, I could have sworn I updated the Factory Satellite, but it appears I did not. I have now done so. Taking direction from the Factory Satellite picture in the Macross Chronicle issue #5, I also updated my Factory Satellite colored line art with my own version done in a similar style. Also, I forgot to add the Macross 7 fleet count numbers from issue #3 into the New Macross Class Colonization Ship profile, but I've now done so. Lastly, with an official size for the Macross 7 fleet, we can now determine the size of Chlore's Meltran fleet from Macross 7 Encore: Fleet of the Strongest Women. I've added the trivia to the profiles for both the Queadluun-Rau Chlore Fleet and the Meltran Gunboat Chlore Fleet. Here are direct links (make sure to REFRESH your browsers if the changes don't appear immediately):

Factory Satellite (new color art and Chronicle trivia)

New Macross Class Colonization Ship (new Chronicle trivia)

Q-Rau "Chlore Fleet" (new Chronicle trivia)

Meltran Gunboat "Chlore Fleet" (new Chronicle trivia)

Gubaba

That's true, but from what I can tell, the Macross Compendium is far off the radar, which probably makes it quite safe. People here on MW seem to know about it, but every time I link to the site somewhere else, everyone reacts as if they've never seen it (both old and new Compendium links). Even fewer are actually aware the Compendium is officially endorsed by the Macross owners. So they probably don't have to worry that much because traffic is light.

Still, you might have a point. Our sites probably aren't popular enough to warrant a lot of vandalism.

TheLoneWolf

It's not exactly a scientific process. I monitor the website traffic and interact with fans on new forums I join to promote my website. Just based on what people are referencing when they discuss Macross, it appears the Robotech sites, the Steelfalcon/Macross Mecha Designs site and the Wikipedia (the most popular destination with non-MW fans) are used as reference for Macross, despite my website now being up for almost 2 years. Granted some of that is simply ignorance of Macross by Robotech fans, but a good percentage are actual Macross fans who are still somehow unaware of my website until I mention it and provide a link. The M3 is even advertised on nearly all the Wikipedia pages for Macross, but doesn't seem to get much traffic from that site. Obviously, I could increase exposure and I tend to look at a wiki as part of the solution.

Dante74

LOL The name wouldn't change. Like the Macross Compendium, I'd just adopt a wiki format, but the website name would remain the same.

Sketchley

Great catch. I had confirmation in the newest photos I obtained and didn't even know it

From what I understand, the digital photos I posted in this latest update were taken from the Flashback 2012 Graffiti book. They are the missing pages which are not found in that PDF file that's been on the net for years.

So if those fuselage sections are actually ramjet engines, then via the process of elimination, that means the two dorsal mounted rear nozzles must be the rocket engines.

So, the VF-4 really does have 6 engines. How bizarre

Come on Chronicle, give us some thrust ratings. Please!

[TheLoneWolf]

It's not exactly a scientific process. I monitor the website traffic and interact with fans on new forums I join to promote my website. Just based on what people are referencing when they discuss Macross, it appears the Robotech sites, the Steelfalcon/Macross Mecha Designs site and the Wikipedia (the most popular destination with non-MW fans) are used as reference for Macross, despite my website now being up for almost 2 years. Granted some of that is simply ignorance of Macross by Robotech fans, but a good percentage are actual Macross fans who are still somehow unaware of my website until I mention it and provide a link. The M3 is even advertised on nearly all the Wikipedia pages for Macross, but doesn't seem to get much traffic from that site. Obviously, I could increase exposure and I tend to look at a wiki as part of the solution.

Ahh, gotcha. If you're looking for increased exposure, might a name change be out of the question? If I'm an average Macross fan and I see the name "Macross Mecha Manual," I'm probably going to scratch my head and think "huh?" What is a "manual?" A booklet, an instruction book, an RPG, or some Geocities page? My suggestion would be to change the name to something explicit or enticing, so that the mere mention of its name would encourage the average user to click on it. Your site would be well worth that click.

From what I understand, the digital photos I posted in this latest update were taken from the Flashback 2012 Graffiti book. They are the missing pages which are not found in that PDF file that's been on the net for years.

Those digital photos come from a VF-4 resin kit. They're definitely not in the Flashback 2012 Graffiti book.

[sketchley]

So, the VF-4 really does have 6 engines. How bizarre

I'm finding in multiple sources that the VF-4 is 40% better than a FAST pack equipped VF-1. As what quantifies the improvements are rather vague, it'd be a safe bet to say that the VF-4 is at least the equal of a FAST pack equipped VF-1 in terms of speed, thrust and manueverability. That should give some numbers. Though, it also implies that the rocket thrusters are more akin to those in the FAST packs, and not used when the VF-4 launches for satellite orbit from the surface.

Edited December 15, 2008 by sketchley

[sketchley]

Those digital photos come from a VF-4 resin kit. They're definitely not in the Flashback 2012 Graffiti book.

Ah! So that's where they came from. Shame that they were never printed in a book...

[Dante74]

Gubaba

That's true, but from what I can tell, the Macross Compendium is far off the radar, which probably makes it quite safe. People here on MW seem to know about it, but every time I link to the site somewhere else, everyone reacts as if they've never seen it (both old and new Compendium links). Even fewer are actually aware the Compendium is officially endorsed by the Macross owners. So they probably don't have to worry that much because traffic is light.

Still, you might have a point. Our sites probably aren't popular enough to warrant a lot of vandalism.

Here's an idea. Why don't you and Egan join forces and incorporate the M3 line art into the compendium?

[TheLoneWolf]

Here's an idea. Why don't you and Egan join forces and incorporate the M3 line art into the compendium?

I don't think that's possible. All the artwork featured on the Compendium has been officially licensed by Big West, Mr. March's isn't. Offering all that lineart for free on a licensed site would be a conflict of interest with books and magazines, such as Macross Chronicles, who are looking to sell as many publications as possible.

[Mr March]

TheLoneWolf

Well, there is broadening exposure and then there is knowing your audience. The M3 is a mecha fan website, so it's only going to appeal to mecha fans, Macross mecha fans most of all. Any "Encyclopedia" or "Guide" or "Manual" or "Jane's All The Universe's Fighting Battroids" doesn't literally imply a physical book when you click on the link. But I think the vast majority of internet users know that, so I'm sure the name is safe. Plus, Macross Mecha Manual is catchy

Thanks for the correction about the source of the digital photos. I think I was told that before, but I forgot. I'll have to note that in the links. (makes mental note to add description).

sketchley

Well, even though we don't have official numbers as yet, I could add the performance comparison to the description in vague terms. Maybe a UNS Analyst line, cause those are fun

But let's wait to see what the Chronicle says and then decide from there.

Dante74

Don't think it would work. Even though Big West releases pictures into public domain when they wish (Macross Frontier Official Website, for example), the images are technically their images to do with as they please. If they want to release them on the net, they do so. Egan can only post images on an official site like the Compendium if the images are sanctioned by Big West for that purpose.

The Macross Mecha Manual uses the line art to showcase original creative content and analysis in line with Canadian Fair Dealing (ie, the coloring and shading, which is all created by me as an interpretation of what appears in the anime, transformation guides, original written descriptions, etc). There is also the fact that as good as the M3 is, it's still only a fan site with fan-colored images, fan-written content, fan-analysis, etc. Big West would no doubt only want official colored art on the Macross Compendium, if at all.

Edited December 15, 2008 by Mr March

[Dante74]

Dante74

Don't think it would work. Even though Big West releases pictures into public domain when they wish (Macross Frontier Official Website, for example), the images are technically their images to do with as they please. If they want to release them on the net, they do so. Egan can only post images on an official site like the Compendium if the images are sanctioned by Big West for that purpose.

The Macross Mecha Manual uses the line art to showcase original creative content and analysis in line with Canadian Fair Dealing (ie, the coloring and shading, which is all created by me as an interpretation of what appears in the anime, transformation guides, original written descriptions, etc). There is also the fact that as good as the M3 is, it's still only a fan site with fan-colored images, fan-written content, fan-analysis, etc. Big West would no doubt only want official colored art on the Macross Compendium, if at all.

I guessed as much. Wouldn't it be great though if Egan were to ask 'em and they said "Sure, looks close enough, let's make the Canadian guy's coloring work official. Heck, it saves us a crap load of work for the Chronicle anyway"

A guy can dream can't he?!

[Mr March]

True, but if Big West was interested in promoting Macross internationally, the M3 would never have been created

As for my coloring, some of it is quite good, some of it is not so good at all

I'm no professional. Ideally, Big West would have professional artists who are really good color all the stuff, like they are slowly doing with the Macross Chronicle.

[RedWolf]

Say March I've noticed you added the Battle Galaxy shot from ep 25.

Ditto on V-9 Ghosts.

Any chance you'll add Macross 1 and Macross 11 to M3?

As for Battle Galaxy hopefully somebody would scan the carrier mode and attacker mode from the NewType mag.

[Mr March]

I could add the Macross 11 to the Macross Frontier section.

I don't think the Macross 1 would justify a whole new profile, but I could add the screen shot I have to the NMC main profile in the Macross 7 section.

There are some scans of the Macross Galaxy floating around, but they are very small and poor. I've been hoping for better, higher resolution scans (at least something as good as all the other Frontier scans I have on the M3), but it looks like I'll have to wait for the Chronicle.

[Zinjo]

If a name change is a reasonable possibility, something like the "Visual Macross Mecha Manual" or "Macross Visual Mecha Manual" would be descriptive enough to get search engine hits. Since the site is the graphical contemporary to the mainly text Macross Compendium.

Just a thought.

[Zinjo]

I could add the Macross 11 to the Macross Frontier section.

I don't think the Macross 1 would justify a whole new profile, but I could add the screen shot I have to the NMC main profile in the Macross 7 section.

There are some scans of the Macross Galaxy floating around, but they are very small and poor. I've been hoping for better, higher resolution scans (at least something as good as all the other Frontier scans I have on the M3), but it looks like I'll have to wait for the Chronicle.

Christmas is coming after all.

I recently upgraded and I haven't installed all the peripheral drivers for my gear yet. I plan to do so over Christmas and get back to some scanning...

[Final Vegeta]

It's not exactly a scientific process. I monitor the website traffic and interact with fans on new forums I join to promote my website. Just based on what people are referencing when they discuss Macross, it appears the Robotech sites, the Steelfalcon/Macross Mecha Designs site and the Wikipedia (the most popular destination with non-MW fans) are used as reference for Macross, despite my website now being up for almost 2 years.

Hmmm... now that you say it, I believe your analysis is incorrect. Pages from Wikipedia come up first when googling up so it is obvious why it is a preferred choice, but the other sites you mention have something in common: they have more information than official sites (ie: bs). The RPG site adds information guessing untold stats, the Robotech ones adds information from Robotech sources, therefore they appear deceivingly more "complete". I don't think a wiki could properly counter this type of disadvantage.

FV

[edwin3060]

The Robotech sites may also be more popular simply because Robotech is better known than Macross--- unless you're willing to put a Robotech somewhere in that title (please don't!) you might have to live with your small group of loyal, dedicated fans

[Mr March]

Rest assured the M3 is remaining Macross only, for better or worse.

[Zinjo]

The Robotech sites may also be more popular simply because Robotech is better known than Macross--- unless you're willing to put a Robotech somewhere in that title (please don't!) you might have to live with your small group of loyal, dedicated fans

Actually the Macross segment of RT is one of the most popular, so I don't think adding that term will affect traffic. If it does Marchalongcassidy will be getting tons of fanboy messages trying to change the names to "Veriwreck" and the like...

[Dante74]

Rest assured the M3 is remaining Macross only, for better or worse.

Good, cause this just doesn't work for me.

[Mr March]

LOL

Except you forgot to change all five mecha to the VF-1, since they haven't actually made a new mecha design in 25 years