Code Geass

[VF-25 Messiah]

I'm kind of happy the whole Charles, Ragnarok, Sword of Akasha, kill God etc bull is over with. Greatly upped the chances for a more straightforward down to earth finale involving the showdown between Lelouch and Schneizel.

[protostar8]

I'm just curious. How do people KNOW that the series is significantly different than what it was going to be (I've seen people posting about it being seemingly drastically different than the creator's original vision)? I know it feels rushed and a few things might have happened slightly differently, but I think the overall progression is probably something like the current series. It doesn't really even seem all that "kiddie-fied" to me either. And I kinda like how things are shaping up now.

Edited September 6, 2008 by protostar8

[wolfx]

I'm just curious. How do people KNOW that the series is significantly different than what it was going to be (I've seen people posting about it being seemingly drastically different than the creator's original vision)? I know it feels rushed and a few things might have happened slightly differently, but I think the overall progression is probably something like the current series. It doesn't really even seem all that "kiddie-fied" to me either. And I kinda like how things are shaping up now.

uhhmmm cuz its obvious? The writing for R2 has dropped considerably to the point that certain plot points were introduced but poorly used and seemingly for nothing, ie: The Knights joining Lelouch's school. I mean R1 had those funny/humour episodes but they are usually a set up to further character interactions and other plot points.

Then there's the geass ability turned into a mere deus-ex-machina in the story.

Progression:

1.) Lelouch goes do something crazy.

2.) He gets everyone in a tight spot....but no worries because he has geassed some ppl before hand and has turned the tide of battle!

3.) But seems not everything has gone as planned and some people has ruined his plans....

4.) But hah....Lelouch has catered for this too

5.) But no...some outside force ruins his plans again and this time Lelouch did not cater for this scenario

6.) Someone (usually Kallen) will appear and save his ass. Not part of plan...but guess it works.

The worse one was his fight with Xing-Ke. It was kind of painful to watch.

[protostar8]

uhhmmm cuz its obvious? The writing for R2 has dropped considerably to the point that certain plot points were introduced but poorly used and seemingly for nothing, ie: The Knights joining Lelouch's school. I mean R1 had those funny/humour episodes but they are usually a set up to further character interactions and other plot points.

Then there's the geass ability turned into a mere deus-ex-machina in the story.

Progression:

1.) Lelouch goes do something crazy.

2.) He gets everyone in a tight spot....but no worries because he has geassed some ppl before hand and has turned the tide of battle!

3.) But seems not everything has gone as planned and some people has ruined his plans....

4.) But hah....Lelouch has catered for this too

5.) But no...some outside force ruins his plans again and this time Lelouch did not cater for this scenario

6.) Someone (usually Kallen) will appear and save his ass. Not part of plan...but guess it works.

The worse one was his fight with Xing-Ke. It was kind of painful to watch.

All that shows is that it was rushed. Not that it was drastically different than the original plan. To me, it feels like Gundam X, which was rushed in the end. Although w/ Gundam X, the plot didn't really change too much, everything was just rushed. I have a feeling Code Geass is the same way. And I'll agree that it doesn't have the same feel as last time, but how many times will the enemies fall for his plans?

Edited September 6, 2008 by protostar8

[wolfx]

"Rushed" is another meaning for bad writing anyway. If it was good writing it won't feel rushed. Check back 1 or 2 pages ago, i provided a link that Goro Taniguchi himself admits that R2 isn't what he envisioned for Code Geass. He had to throw away the whole script for what he had planned and re-do it into this travesty due to pressure from management (which switched Geass to the 5pm timeslot).

[protostar8]

"Rushed" is another meaning for bad writing anyway. If it was good writing it won't feel rushed. Check back 1 or 2 pages ago, i provided a link that Goro Taniguchi himself admits that R2 isn't what he envisioned for Code Geass. He had to throw away the whole script for what he had planned and re-do it into this travesty due to pressure from management (which switched Geass to the 5pm timeslot).

But that's kind of what I'm getting at. He had to change his work. And his "vision" may be pretty similar to what it ended up being, but if it was slightly off then he would definitely say it's not as he envisioned it. Even throwing away the whole script doesn't mean the overall progression changed. It just means how quickly or what is said changed. He may have planned all along to have every event that occured in R2 to occur in the one he threw away, just not so quickly. I htink the show could have been better if stretched out another couple episodes (like 10 to make things a little slower paced), but overall I like how it has shaped up. The ending is all that's left to determine if the series was good or not in my opinion and if Schniezel Britania wins, then I think it will be a bad series for me.

Edited September 7, 2008 by protostar8

[Morpheus]

Quick review of CG:R2 episode 22.

[Mercurial Morpheus]

I still need to watch 22. Though a quick "Happy Birthday, Cecile" is in order. Hopefully, Lloyd remembered.

[grss1982]

@ Episode 22

NUFF SAID!!!

Anyways....Strike Freedom anyone?

[Mercurial Morpheus]

Hardly. I'll take the Albion over that lousy thing any day.

This was in response to a LJ post, but I'm too tired to write afresh.

I have to admit, this is the first time I can definitively say that this week's Macross Frontier was better than Geass. Usually they're par or Geass wins (usually because it's actually MF 22 to CG 47). But hey, they practically fixed Sheryl for me and had a cool Harlock moment.

That, and this episode was rather off. It's like they're scrambling to fit everything in. It's a shame given the awesomeness of S1's final episodes. The last two in particular were masterfully plotted. It's definitely a lot to wrap one's mind around, and I one of the few that really liked 21!

I agree that the plan seems to be to unite the world in hating them, or at least, to consolidate power as quickly as possibly to challenge Schneizel. The scenes of Lelouch Geassing people into slaves didn't sit too well with me, as I sort of figured after beating Charles, he might have regained a bit of ethics. Though with Schneizel's plans known, it appears to be a "desperate times calls for desperate measures" thing.

Still, this episode did feel rather rushed. Especially Suzaku dispatching three Rounds whose intentions weren't all that clear. I laughed at the new girl being offed without so much of a mention. Monica did get short shrift though. I guess having her only appear with Charles didn't set her up to be in Schneizel's camp. It's a shame as she was rather cute, and I'm not one for blonds usually (might be the bangs/ribbons).

I'm rather surprised at how quickly they offed Bismark. I expected him to be Schneizel's left hand man given how often he reported to him. I guess he was just a Charles loyalist in the end. At least he died for plot, unlike Monica and whatshername. Showing the world the might of the new Britannia, and how geass can cancel out geass. Live Geass, now with plot armor!

Anya's now the only loyal Rounds, and she's not exactly the best of them, particularly without Marianne the Flash to help her anymore.

I'm still curious what Diethard is up to. Mere journalism? Nina, Milly and Rivelz were great in this one. Rivelz may have a purpose after all. Only took him entire series worth of episodes to fully matter.

I wouldn't say that charactizations have really faltered much, it's just the pacing, which is pretty bad.

I sort of figured if Nunnally came back, she'd be against Lelouch. It works well I think. Though I also don't think she knows the whole truth, same with Cornelia.

It's not without it's high points. Gino was good. The scenes with Rivalz and Kallen were great. Kaguya continues to be awesome. I especially love how traumatized she seemed at the prospect of getting geassed. You could see that she really did feel for him at one point and doesn't know what to think now. The whole joining thing just a front to acquire Nina was interesting.

I wonder if the geass-canceler will ever cease to be a deus ex-machina? It's easier to swallow the whole slave thing if Lelouch plans to ungeass them all later.

I wonder if I have yet another costume to do here. Though I'm not entirely liking Emperor Lelouch. Though I agree with your perceptions on him. He's in atone mood.

Given the nature of the episode, I'll go with my "crazy" icon instead of the "mind bend" CC.

Oh, and what's up with all the Destiny comparisons? i guess I never noticed since I stick to better Gundams (only saw ten episode of SEED itself, still haven't felt to prioritize finishing it).

The pink Lancelot was weird. Though Britannia has a liking for Maroons, pinks, and purples for their mechs.

R2 is still a good show, like i said, even Frontier has it's quirks (like the so-so triangle). maybe it is better taken with a grain of salt, but a little exposition on the viewer's part goes a long way.

Dorothea, why the hell did you even bother to show up? Should've taken a page from Nonette. You can burn in hell with Luciano for all I care.

RIP Monica. You were underused and wiped out before you had even a chance to develop, but it's still more than Dorothea got. You should have sided with Lelouch, though I guess the Knight of Zero is a Knight of Rounds of ONE.

[wolfx]

My my....welcome back Mr. Goro. Where have you been 20 episodes ago?

I actually think ep 22 is the best episode of R2 if not the whole of Code Geass, in contrast to Mercurial Morpheus' post. It feels as if Goro took a hold of his work again and kicked all the bullshit that R2 accumulated along the way.

Getting rid of the Knights was as premature as getting rid of Charles/Marianne but justifies that they were just plot-fat and needed to be get rid of fast. The knights played almost no role for the whole of R2 and with so litttle episodes left, its bout time they died, but introduction of Monica and Dorothea only to be shot down as cannon fodder was kinda....woah. I really wonder why Gino is left alive.

Kallen's kiss was kind of sad. Poor girl.

It would seem that the plot is now set up with Lelouch and Suzaku to be the sacrificial lambs for the world. A messiah that takes the sins of the world with them. At least that's what Lelouch and Suzaku are doing to justify their actions. Who knows what this "better world" is like after Lulu and Suzaku's apparent demise. Then there's C.C which would give Lelouch the power of immortality should he abide by his contract with her. He probably plans to bear the torment of immortality and promise "heavenly death" upon people who do not comply with his idea of peace and freedom.

As Mercurial pointed out...Jeremiah looms around ready to be a Deus Ex and its making me kind of wary.

About Lelouch's ethics, he now seems to be self-righteous. He will not Geass/kill people he cares for and when he does its usually when he has no choice or by accident. He still treasures his friends in Ashford and gave specific orders to gurantee their safety but he will have no qualms to use Geass on people he doesn't care about to do his bidding. I don't really see it falling out of his character to Geass people to be his loyal servants. He probably needs it anyway being the calculative guy that he is. The more ppl that is involved in the plan, the more chances it can go wrong by people betraying you or something. So better be safe and Geass the people involved so that the "condition is cleared" and he can worry about other things beyond his control.

Wow....i actually liked this Geass episode. The mecha action was really hacks but I don't the gay mecha anymore. Now we wanna see what Schneizel is up to and how Lelouch will react to Nunally. Peh...Sunrise and their deaths. Can't believe people were surprised about her being alive.

[Mercurial Morpheus]

Interesting thoughts. I agree actually about the Rounds. It just seemed a bit wonky. I still feel it's the impending actions of Schneizel which is pushing lelouch to extreme measures. He was never the type to order absolute loyalty. It works with the story when some thought was put into it, but it does have a rushedness to it.

Gino's alive purely to relate to Kallen. Plain and simple.

Edited September 9, 2008 by Mercurial Morpheus

[wolfx]

Potential spoilers. Sunrise Staff's comments about schneizel's character in some magazine scans.

http://trainwreck.ggkthx.org/2008/09/08/sc...want-him-to-be/

[Morpheus]

RIP Cornelia

Nunnaly firing a Freya? Thats not her at all, damn that Sneezel.

[grss1982]

RIP Cornelia

Nunnaly firing a Freya? Thats not her at all, damn that Sneezel.

Indeed RIP Cornelia-sama.

Anyways.....

Sayoko x Orange-kun

FTW!!!!

Edited September 15, 2008 by grss1982

[Mercurial Morpheus]

Her death was so messed up. Way to throw a great character into the garbage Sunrise. Though I guess that's better than turning her evil.

RIP Cornelia-sama. At least you're with Euphy, Guilford and Dalton now.

T_T

[VF-25 Messiah]

Growing increasingly... indifferent to the outcome of this series. That the quality of storytelling seems to be dropping with each passing episode isn't helping. Also growing increasingly bored with the remaining characters... most that I still liked are either dead, or can be found within Lelouch's faction, meaning I don't care much if the BK's, Schneizel's faction or the super-UN are all wiped out....

[wolfx]

Her death was so messed up. Way to throw a great character into the garbage Sunrise. Though I guess that's better than turning her evil.

RIP Cornelia-sama. At least you're with Euphy, Guilford and Dalton now.

T_T

You know what? I'll say the same thing I said for Nunally and Michel.

She's not dead.

You just wait. She's mcguyver after all!

The scene where C.C was comforting Lulu was kinda heartwarming....made me "Awwwww...she's trying to be nice". Lelouch lying to his sister was kinda sad.

It feels like Schneizel and Lelouch are fighting for rights to say the final "Keikakuu Doori". It will probably end with Schneizel losing and he'll say "i meant to lose all along, and i did all this so you won't be the bearer of humanity's sins. I hate Britannia and everything it stands for that's why i blew up pendragon. *coughs blood* Live on Lelouch.....and may this world be better for you and Nunally *dies*"

.......

damn Sunrise has to hire me....i think i meet their writing criteria.

[grss1982]

Senbonsuzakuradite~!!

Picked that up from another forum.

[Morpheus]

Epi.24

- Cornelia survive, including Guilford.

- C.C. admitted defeat to Kallen

- Schneizel geassed by Lelouch, Diethard is killed by him

- Nunnaly opened her eyes, asked Lelouch to geass her.

[VF-25 Messiah]

Quite lol worthy indeed.

[wolfx]

What did i tell ya? In anime, there's a chance no one dies unless u see them die for sure.

[windcloud]

Aside from the reaction of "WTF and FUBAR" i have nothing else to say about this episode as i'm so glad that it will end in a week. It's just too bad as i got attracted by it during season 1 with all the tactics and deceptions and right now everything is just blown out of proportion, sigh...

[VF-25 Messiah]

And so it ends...

- Lelouch geass's Nunally into giving him the Damocles key, letting her keep thinking that he's doing everything for his own evil purposes.

- Left with noone to oppose him anymore, and in possession of the Damocles, Lelouch conquers the entire world, and in by doing so, he becomes the object for the worlds hate. He parades in the newly appointed imperial capital and is about to hold a farce execution of all of those who opposed him, including Schneizel and Nunally.

- Que Zero, who is really the thought to be dead Suzaku. Zero charges at emperor Lelouch and impales him with his sword. Lelouch falls over from his huge mobile throne, smearing blood all over it, and is embraced by a sobbing Nunally. The evil emperor dies at the hands of the symbol of hope Zero, and the world is freed. Keikaku doori indeed.

- Orange and Anya become orange farmers, Ohgi and Villeta marry. CC is seen laying atop a cart of hay drawn by horses somewhere in the country side, having one of her typical dialouges with dead people, this time Lelouch.

All I can say is meh. Felt kinda let down by the end. Left quite a few questions dangling and was possibly one of the worst possible outcomes for everyone except a couple of minor characters. Like someone elsewhere pointed out, "who really gives a flying **** at a rolling donut about Ohgi's happiness when Lelouch bleeds to death in Nunnally's arms, Suzaku gives up everything to become Zero, and C.C. is back to doing exactly what she was before the show even began?"

Of course it I might add it was kind of implied that Lelouch never actually dies. Nunally see's images of Lelouch's past when she grabs him, implying that he has obtained an immortality code like CC. CC's comment at the end might have actually been directed to the heavily obscured farmer who was sitting at the head of the cart, but it was left open ended.

[Cybergig1]

Of course it I might add it was kind of implied that Lelouch never actually dies. Nunally see's images of Lelouch's past when she grabs him, implying that he has obtained an immortality code like CC. CC's comment at the end might have actually been directed to the heavily obscured farmer who was sitting at the head of the cart, but it was left open ended.

I was thinking the same thing Messiah. mainly because of the way she said "right lelouch" or whatever. She didn't say it in a sad/caring way like he was dead and up in heaven. But more like directly to a person near her as in yo dude driving me around in the carriage lol.

but same feelings overall. well the music during his "death" scene was pretty good. Otherwise I was just like wtf. but being sunrise he'll be back in some ova. Because you know they just can't keep someone dead. Cornelia's Knight survived a nuke for pete's sake :\

on animesuki's forums there is a funny gif showing it pan to the left and revealing it to be Lelouch. It was funny/interesting but definitely made up. I still believe it though

[todd77]

For me, I actually thought the ending was rather befitting for a series that had as many highs and lows as genuine WTF moments (the Charles, Marianne, and Akasha Sword arc). I'd always half-expected Lelouch to end up the way he did ever since I started watching the series. And the ending, with the insert song and all, kind of reminded me of the ending of another of Taniguchi's efforts - Planetes. The ending insert songs for both series were even performed by the same group!

Edited September 28, 2008 by todd77

[SuperHobo]

For me the ending was better than I expected and certainly not a train wreck. However it could have been much better and spread out a little more. Overall I'm happy with the series and its ending. Possibly and OVA or movie (Sunrise if you want more money) could milk the series a little more to fully resolve all the plot holes.

[grss1982]

Just wanted to say that Orange-kun is officially the most badass character in R2.

He ejects a knightmare out of the Siegfried to go after Anya, blows it up on top of Mordred, and then he himself leaps out and lands on top of it. And then as fitting end, he becomes grower of ORANGE Trees!!!!! AWESOME!!!!

All Hail Orange-kun's Farm Grown Oranges and Orange Related Products!!!!!

Edited September 29, 2008 by grss1982

[wolfx]

I called the ending except the part where Lelouch really dies. I would've thought he would have fulfilled his contract with C.C. and gained the code from her. Or at the very least make a dramatic end apologising for not fulfilling his promise to make her smile as she dies.

and after watching the end it might be this was the case. But meh...i dun really care if he was dead or not. Its just that the whole C.C. arc was left open and to ppl who were too busy bawwwing, might have missed that C.C's code might already be transferred in that 2 months Emperor Lelouch got the Damocles.

Beh who knows now.

About Nunally touching Lelouch as he was dying and seeing his past, i wonder if that was a sign that the immortality code was transferred since it usually shows the person who touch the immortal his past, not the immortal's past?

Overall I think i loved Code Geass' epilogue more than Macross Frontier's.

*dodges pots and pans thrown at him*

Edited September 29, 2008 by wolfx

[VF-25 Messiah]

I called the ending except the part where Lelouch really dies. I would've thought he would have fulfilled his contract with C.C. and gained the code from her. Or at the very least make a dramatic end apologising for not fulfilling his promise to make her smile as she dies.

and after watching the end it might be this was the case. But meh...i dun really care if he was dead or not. Its just that the whole C.C. arc was left open and to ppl who were too busy bawwwing, might have missed that C.C's code might already be transferred in that 2 months Emperor Lelouch got the Damocles.

Beh who knows now.

About Nunally touching Lelouch as he was dying and seeing his past, i wonder if that was a sign that the immortality code was transferred since it usually shows the person who touch the immortal his past, not the immortal's past?

Overall I think i loved Code Geass' epilogue more than Macross Frontier's.

*dodges pots and pans thrown at him*

*while throwing pots and pans with a fervor*

I think I recall lelouch seeing both Suzaku's and CC's past when he touched her during that time in the Narita arc in season 1. He also learned her true name then.

[wolfx]

*while throwing pots and pans with a fervor*

I think I recall lelouch seeing both Suzaku's and CC's past when he touched her during that time in the Narita arc in season 1. He also learned her true name then.

Oh dear you're right....so that means i don't have to fan wank that conclusion. This is awesome.

[wolfx]

Troll101's theory which makes more sense:

Biggest Clue;Paper crane:Nunnally taught Lulu to made those in R1

Lelouch is still alive. He has Charles’ Code which he received when the man choked him. The Code activates first when you die, which happened. Charles code got activate when he shot himself the first time, same with C.C. when she was killed by the nun. And before you say can’t have Code and a Geass at the same time, the Code wasn’t the one C.C. had, meaning that Lelouch was the first one to achieve Code Geass. Lelouch’s code also activates when Suzaku stabbed him. Nunnally even gets ‘memory watch’ when he touched Lelouch. It was the similar effects when Leluch touched C.C.’s body back in the cave episode. This pretty much tells us that he really has the code and it is activating to revive him. He’s now traveling the country-side with C.C., living as immortals.

That’s the only reason for C.C. to be suddenly so happy again. Also, before you say that C.C. was just talking to the dead like with Marianne, that’s not true. She could only talk to her because of the nature of her Geass which allowed her to implant herself into the “hearts” of others. That’s how she was able to talk with Marianne. Lelouch’s Geass was entirely different, meaning that she could only have spoken to her if he was there.

Question now is, why the heck would Charles give the code to Lelouch?

(starts doing some rewatching)

[grss1982]

I called the ending except the part where Lelouch really dies. I would've thought he would have fulfilled his contract with C.C. and gained the code from her. Or at the very least make a dramatic end apologising for not fulfilling his promise to make her smile as she dies.

and after watching the end it might be this was the case. But meh...i dun really care if he was dead or not. Its just that the whole C.C. arc was left open and to ppl who were too busy bawwwing, might have missed that C.C's code might already be transferred in that 2 months Emperor Lelouch got the Damocles.

Beh who knows now.

About Nunally touching Lelouch as he was dying and seeing his past, i wonder if that was a sign that the immortality code was transferred since it usually shows the person who touch the immortal his past, not the immortal's past?

Overall I think i loved Code Geass' epilogue more than Macross Frontier's.

*dodges pots and pans thrown at him*

*fires Mikhail's Sniper Rifle at wolfx*

Forgive for I'm slow at times when it come to "reading between the lines," but was that Lelouch driving the carriage that C.C. was on? or did I just get trolled by the director of CG?

Also I'm wondering about Kallen's reaction when Lelouch got stabbed with the sword, did she know that instant that lelouch was doing this for her sister and all of them? The reason I ask because IIRC in one of the episodes we were shown character stats of members of the BK and sad to say Kallen wasn't really high when it came to intellect.

EDIT: Spelling.

Edited September 29, 2008 by grss1982

[wolfx]

*fires Mikhail's Sniper Rifle at wolfx*

Forgive for I'm slow at times when it come to "reading between the lines," but was that Lelouch driving the carriage that C.C. was on? or did I just get trolled by the director of CG?

Also I'm wondering about Kallen's reaction when Lelouch got stabbed with the sword, did she know that instant that lelouch was doing this for her sister and all of them? The reason I ask because IIRC in one of the episodes we were shown character stats of members of the BK and sad to say Kallen wasn't really high when it came to intellect.

EDIT: Spelling.

Some ppl speculate it to be, though it doesn't really matter. What matters was Lelouch got the code and is immortal, so probably travelling Britannian countryside with C.C. or something. C.C. was also crying in the church on Lelouch's "decision" for using Geass on people, which at 1s ppl think the decision was to die, but actually its more of the decision of suffering the curse of immortality, with her.

What was important for me was Lelouch was keeping his end of the promise, to have C.C. smile when she dies (if she ever dies) and she sure seemed happy talking to Lelouch at the end. Though not implied I think the hints on the final episode confirm he has became immortal.

As for Kallen, i'd like to think she knew hence the tears in her eyes at the stabbing. She above everyone else placed her trust on him and was befuddled by his sudden bastardness after putting on the imperial crown, only to realise she was right all along.

[grss1982]

@wolfx: Thanks for the explanation.

Anyways, since this series is over I just wanted to post the image below as a sort of "one for the road" thing.

Orange-kun is da OZMA.

Edited September 30, 2008 by grss1982