Graham's Review of Yamato 1/60 Scale YF-19

[eugimon]

The only concerns I have with the YF-19 are stressmarks on the grey blocks. They've got to redesign that part for more flexibility or replace those blocks with machined metal or diecast.

Our other option is to find a caster to recast those parts in higher grade material. Like what MyersJessee did for the vf-11b hip replacements.

Good thing I've got two 19's, 1 in Battroid, 1 in fighter. Just the occasional transformations for me.

I wish titanium was cheaper... the fuselage and the VF-0's arms could really use some.

[Wicked Ace]

Just so we're all on the same page, the gray areas with the screws in them are the parts in question. The first picture is on my first, properly functioning -19 as it now sits; in other words, this is how yours should look. The second picture shows where the stress mark, or break, will occur, so everyone with one of these can take a look by simply moving the part just forward of the nose gear bay down. Note: even with proper transformation, the gray parts do see alot of stress, as the hinge pulls on them. Also visible are the square pegs some members have chosen to file down. These pegs push against the gray parts. Hopefully, this clears some things up for those who are confused.

[cyde01]

i've been transforming mine correctly as far as i know and i just checked the grey parts yesterday and they do have stress marks..

ah well, loosening the screws helps doesn't it? i'm still pretty happy with mine, i've transformed it almost every other night and haven't had any problems. i used to have trouble transforming the nose like others have but that was because i was trying to do it wrong.

[Wicked Ace]

This is specifically what to look for; notice the white stress lines just under the screw head. I'd encourage all who have -19s to have a quick look -- hope this helps. Graham, perhaps you can have Yamato take a look.

[UN Spacy]

Glad I left mine in Fighter Mode.

[Wicked Ace]

For Yamato's how-to-transform pictures, look on page 24 of this thread. Is there a white stress mark on Yamato's -19, right under the black screw head?

Edited January 23, 2007 by Wicked Ace

[Scream Man]

GAH. I looked, and mine DOES have stressmarks on those screws.

Can we get some sort of detailed guide on what I have to take apart and what i have to sand etc etc?

[Wicked Ace]

Can we get some sort of detailed guide on what I have to take apart and what i have to sand etc etc?

Check out page 3 of this thread:

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=21130

Edited January 24, 2007 by Wicked Ace

[Scream Man]

that appears to be instructions for the wheel hub. arent we talking about the fuselage?

[Wicked Ace]

that appears to be instructions for the wheel hub. arent we talking about the fuselage?

The whole thread addresses different issues -- the fuselage stuff is on page 3.

[Skullsixx]

Wow!!! I literally just pulled my YF-19 outta the box 20 minutes ago and placed it on my shelf. I'm cruising this forum and half of ya got me scared to death to transform that bad boy!!! Actually, I'll leave it in fighter mode for a while because it sits next to my VF-1S, and YF-21 in fighter mode as well. I do know when I finally transform it I'll be extremely careful and take all your tips into consideration. Boy does it make the 21 look small. I know the 19 is 1/60, so I'd love to see 'em do a 21 to match.

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

Okay, as I said before I don't own a YF-19 yet, but looking at the pictures looks like the grey piece is made form the same cheap a$$ plastic Yamato used for the hip of the 1/72 VF-11, and the shoulders of both: the Garland and the VF-0's, which I do own. What really sucks here, is that all the parts made out of that plastic WILL break sooner or later (depending on use, of course) in many tiny pieces.

Maybe that plastic is good for use in some areas, but when Yamato chooses to use it in areas where the piece actually works, we have disaster. I say we recast those pieces now before tragedy strikes. AND urge Yamato to change those pieces for better ones in future releases.

[AlphaOne]

I was thinking of this for a while now, but if the canards are made of POM plastic (which is supposedly more durable) why don't they make the problem areas from this plastic?

[drifand]

Reading this thread (and the related issues from the Garland, VF-0S) has doubly affirmed my decision to wait out the initial euphoria for ALL 1st release toys by Yamato. This 'luck of the roll' kind of QC takes away a lot of the joy of owning such expensive collectibles for me. I have no qualms about modding toys to improve appearance/functionality - I did that for my trio of 1/60 VF-Js - but I've had my fill of Yamato's track seeming record of 'planned obsolesence'.

[Wicked Ace]

Okay, as I said before I don't own a YF-19 yet, but looking at the pictures looks like the grey piece is made form the same cheap a$$ plastic Yamato used for the hip of the 1/72 VF-11, and the shoulders of both: the Garland and the VF-0's, which I do own. What really sucks here, is that all the parts made out of that plastic WILL break sooner or later (depending on use, of course) in many tiny pieces.

This is an interesting point -- something to consider. I hope you're wrong, and I'm sure you hope you're wrong for all our sake.

[Beware of Blast]

This is an interesting point -- something to consider. I hope you're wrong, and I'm sure you hope you're wrong for all our sake.

He's not. We've been talking about this ever since Yamato roll out their first 1/72 Macross plus valks:-

1) The prone to breaking / stress marks plastic shoulder slider of the YF21.

2) The VF11B hip bars

3) The plastic hinge for the 1/48 VF1 backpack

4) The cracking of the 1/48 VF1 intake block due to inner paint chip and rubber seepage

5) The VF0A/S plastic shoulder blocks.

You may think it's something interesting to consider - but Yamato as always, think they know better.

Edited January 24, 2007 by Beware of Blast

[Dante74]

Okay, as I said before I don't own a YF-19 yet, but looking at the pictures looks like the grey piece is made form the same cheap a$$ plastic Yamato used for the hip of the 1/72 VF-11, and the shoulders of both: the Garland and the VF-0's, which I do own. What really sucks here, is that all the parts made out of that plastic WILL break sooner or later (depending on use, of course) in many tiny pieces.

Maybe that plastic is good for use in some areas, but when Yamato chooses to use it in areas where the piece actually works, we have disaster. I say we recast those pieces now before tragedy strikes. AND urge Yamato to change those pieces for better ones in future releases.

This is an interesting point -- something to consider. I hope you're wrong, and I'm sure you hope you're wrong for all our sake.

He's not. We've been talking about this ever since Yamato roll out their first 1/72 Macross plus valks:-

1) The prone to breaking / stress marks plastic shoulder slider of the YF21.

2) The VF11B hip bars

3) The plastic hinge for the 1/48 VF1 backpack

4) The cracking of the 1/48 VF1 intake block due to inner paint chip and rubber seepage

5) The VF0A/S plastic shoulder blocks.

You may think it's something interesting to consider - but Yamato as always, think they know better.

I agree that Yamato should take a good look at what type of plastic they choose for specific parts of the mechanism, but the backpack hinge on the 1/48 is not the same sort of plastic used as on the shoulders of the VF-0.

[Beware of Blast]

I agree that Yamato should take a good look at what type of plastic they choose for specific parts of the mechanism, but the backpack hinge on the 1/48 is not the same sort of plastic used as on the shoulders of the VF-0.

Face it Yamato, you should start looking beyond plastics. The toy-making industry is sturdy-material rich, if you care to look. Machined Aluminium Alloy comes to mind... Yamato may think its much vaunted POM plastic can do a good job; it's not indestructable. Just look at the horror show that are your products. If you still don't understand, fecking hire a TRANSLATOR!

[jenius]

I may be mistaken but I'm pretty sure none of the broken parts are POM but rather all are ABS. ABS is used because it's cheap, very manageable, and "durable". I really don't think the material is the issue so much as the thickness of certain parts and the design of the parts themselves. It's much cheaper to have Yamato just be a little more thorough with their stress testing than it is to demand them work with more difficult materials.

Edited January 24, 2007 by jenius

[Graham]

1) The prone to breaking / stress marks plastic shoulder slider of the YF21.

Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but I don't think this was really a huge issue. IIRC, the number of cases of reported stress marks on the blue YF-21 was pretty small and actual breakage even less frequent. From what I remember from my talks with Yamato, a slight redesign or material change solved the issue on the purple YF-21-FP

2) The VF11B hip bars

Admittedly this was a big problem, but was completely fixed on the VF-11B FAST Pack version with the hip joints reinforced with steel pins. The VF-11B-FP is a very sturdy toy.

3) The plastic hinge for the 1/48 VF1 backpack

Given the large numbers of 1/48 released, the number of reported breakages is tiny. From what I've read most cases of breakage with the BP8 happened early on when people didn't know better and tried to force the BP8 past its design limits. Or they dropped the toy onto a hard surface and the toy unluckily landed on the backpack. It's interesting that most people here now consider the 1/48 as a very sturdy toy.

4) The cracking of the 1/48 VF1 intake block due to inner paint chip and rubber seepage

Maybe I've just been lucky, but on the 20+ 1/48 I have out of the box, I've never had this problem. While rubber seepage seems to be fairly frequently reported, it doesn't seem to cause harm. Cracked intakes seem to be very rare. I'm wondering do people confuse the mold lines for cracks?

5) The VF0A/S plastic shoulder blocks.

This is an issue of some concern on what is otherwise a well designed and sturdy toy. Hopefully it will be fixed on future VF-0 toys. Loosening the top shoulder screw slightly and sanding down the shoulder ball seem to help prevent this.

Graham

[David Hingtgen]

Or how about just using more locks to keep things together, instead of one or two mega-tight locks? I mean, even with half the parts removed, and the other half sanded down to less than one-half size, the forward fuselage still stays locked together tighter than a 1/48. And yet, the upper half is a floppy mess in battroid mode.

I think Yamato mis-interpreted our requests for "tighter fighter modes" by making the few locks there super-tight, instead of adding more locks.

[eugimon]

Graham, in regards to your comment about the VF-0 shoulders... when it comes fresh from the factory with stress marks... or sustains stress marks after the first transformation, telling us to sand down the ball joint on an already loose joint is fraking ridiculous.

[Graham]

David, you should send me your 1/60 YF-19. If I can't easily transform it, I'll eat my boots.

The only Yamato toy I've ever had difficulty transforming was one YF-21 FP.

Graham

[Beware of Blast]

I may be mistaken but I'm pretty sure none of the broken parts are POM but rather all are ABS. ABS is used because it's cheap, very manageable, and "durable". I really don't think the material is the issue so much as the thickness of certain parts and the design of the parts themselves. It's much cheaper to have Yamato just be a little more thorough with their stress testing than it is to demand them work with more difficult materials.

I wonder just how much more thorough do they need to go! See, they have been at it for six years and every friggin' release would spring AT LEAST one unpleasant surprise. We even get QC or Design problems on the Yamato 1/48 VF1s rehashes! If we as collectors, can fix the problem, fine. What if we can't? Further still, should we even be bothered to do such fixes to begin with?

The problem doesn't lie with Yamato being thorough enough or not. It's just an excuse so fingers are not pointed their way when something fvcks-up. It's safer to bet they'll end-up screwing the SV-51.

[eugimon]

What BoB said... but uhm, less angry.

[Macross73]

the VFOS and the YF19 suffer from over-tightenting of the screws and the thickness of the ABS plastic or

whatever that particular piece just happens to be made of. So having the parts made of some Expensive

(subjective) Alloy material isnt always the answer. I agree that metal (diecast) would work for key

pieces/parts that are to thin. I'd love to see an all Metal (diecast)l VF-1. I cetainly dont expect Yamato to

start making every single new Valk out of metal. I do want just one 1/48 with interchangeable parts.

That would have multiple heads and the chest covers for each of the key Valks from the show

These toys are complex and the fact that they're even availabel is fantastic. I'd never have thought they or

any company would have made them in this scale and with such variety. Having said that Yamato does need

to up their game here and produce toys thats are superb right out of the box.

Edited January 24, 2007 by Macross73

[Graham]

Graham, in regards to your comment about the VF-0 shoulders... when it comes fresh from the factory with stress marks... or sustains stress marks after the first transformation, telling us to sand down the ball joint on an already loose joint is fraking ridiculous.

No, but for ones which don't already have stress marks, it may help.

Graham

[eugimon]

No, but for ones which don't already have stress marks, it may help.

Graham

true enough. Good luck to those lucky few, I say. But really Graham, we need an honest fix from yamato and we need to see them do right to those of us who bought the 1st releases in good faith.

[Beware of Blast]

Graham, thanks for taking time to address my post. But they weren't exactly directed at you.

On your points that Yamato have made fixes, certain faulty product incidences that are rare or advice self-help fixes... I can only say that money is spent. Time is wasted. The only things unresolved (broken toys, less than perfect toys, frustrations, anger and unburied hatchets with Yamato) still remain.

But thank you Graham, I have always been grateful for your reviews and enjoy them. However, I think you efforts on the YF19 demo is wasted on Yamato's obstinate culture - seeing that many of us here faced problem with the transformation - especially David Hingtgen.

Edited January 24, 2007 by Beware of Blast

[myk]

true enough. Good luck to those lucky few, I say. But really Graham, we need an honest fix from yamato and we need to see them do right to those of us who bought the 1st releases in good faith.

I gotta' ask again about the Japanese fans though-are they suffering the same problems we are? I'm gathering that they aren't, and if that is the case then you can almost guarantee that Yamato won't change much about their manufacturing processes. Why would they?

I'm not sure how Kensei's MW ownership survey turned out, but you can rest assured that our combined purchases don't make much of a difference to Yamato...

[David Hingtgen]

Graham---Oh, my YF-19 is quite easy to transform *now*--with the sanded down tabs it takes less time than a 1/60 or 1/48 VF-1. It's that FIRST time that was hell and it exploded into pieces.

Why don't you send me one of yours instead? If I have problems, then obviously I'm doing something wrong and my valk was fine to start with. But if I can get the neck of yours tranformed in 2 secs, obviously it's my valk that was the problem (pre-tab-sanding), not my technique.

[AlphaOne]

I got done transforming my yf-19 (using Graham's handy video) and I've suffered no stress marks or cracks or anything yet. I don't doubt the patience and care fellow Macrossworlders have when it comes to transforming so I'm beginning to think that there might be a bad batch or something.

[emajnthis]

Maybe i'm fortunate too, but i've never had problems transforming mine either, no cracks, no breakage. I can transform the YF-19 wicked fast, mostly after tearing it apart into little pieces and then putting it back together for the sake of finding a shoulder fix for fighter mode. My VF-0 has flawless shoulders also; I'm actually glad because after having a floppy YF-21FP and a broken hip VF-11 i almost swore off of Yamato all together.

[Dante74]

I'm actually glad because after having a floppy YF-21FP and a broken hip VF-11 i almost swore off of Yamato all together.

Why would you swear off Yamato after two bad experiences?

Women cost even more than Yamato's, but you didn't swear off girls after your first two break-ups did you?

j/k

[T.V.]

Face it Yamato, you should start looking beyond plastics. The toy-making industry is sturdy-material rich, if you care to look. Machined Aluminium Alloy comes to mind...

I don't any Yammies yet - planning on getting a VF-0 and SV-51 though - so I can't comment on their (lack of) durability, but this is a rediculous request.

The materials they use, ABS, POM, etc., are all relatively cheap materials to process.

If you'd use machined aluminium the prices of the toys would skyrocket well beyond the $500 mark, perhaps above $1000, with current production numbers in mind.

When they're expect to sell even less toys, the developement and production cost needs to be spread over even smaller volumes, meaning yet another price hike.

The production costs would simply be too high for the toys to remain marketable.

What seems to be the problem is that the material on some parts is too brittle for 'heavy' usage.

You could make the plastics less brittle with using a different mold tempering process, but then you'd loose some strength and gain elasticity and plasticity.

It's the complexity of the toys themselves that are the biggest problem, I reckon.

A lot of mass needs to be held together with comparatively little components.