Shoji Kawamori's Opinion of the VF-4

[Nied]

Over in op4_delta's Asuka thread Egan Loo made this enigmatic comment:

This split is also related to Shoji Kawamori's personal opinion of the VF-4, but that's another discussion.

So what is Kawamori's opinion on the VF-4? Does he love hate, thinks he could have done better? Inquiring minds (and the cult of Lightning) want to know!

[Zinjo]

Over in op4_delta's Asuka thread Egan Loo made this enigmatic comment:

So what is Kawamori's opinion on the VF-4? Does he love hate, thinks he could have done better? Inquiring minds (and the cult of Lightning) want to know!

DITTO...

[Ignacio Ocamica]

Yes please I want to know too!!!!

Did I say the VF-4 rules?

[Knight26]

I think that he never intended to really develop the VF-4, let's face it it really doesn't show up that much in any of the animation. A model in SDF and DYRL, and a couple of brief flyby's in 2012. I almost wonder if he even meant for it to be a variable fighter. Let's face it the VF-4 has a dead sexy fighter mode, but it's battroid mode leaves a lot to be desired. Plus there are some serious inconsistencies in its design evolution. Early drawings show a much different gerwalk then what we eventually got, especially in the arms. So that makes me think that maybe when he first drew it up he had a better transformation in mind but let it fall to the wayside with the original end of Macross. Then when he picked it back up, what ten year later, he had lost those notes and gave us what we have now. Just my opinion, but you have to agree that the VF-4 has one of the wonkist transformations of any valk.

[UN Spacy]

I hope he loves it enough to allow Yamato to release it in 1/48 scale.

[eugimon]

blegh, the VF-4 looks fine as a fighter but it's alt modes are just wonky at best and down right goofy imo.

The only VF-4 rendition I have ever liked is the the SD version shown in the design works book.

[jenius]

This thread needs, nay, DEMANDS pics. Lots of pics. I wanna see VF-4 goodness splattered all over this baby blue pages. Then we can dissect the pics and find out why Kawarmori either loves or hate the design.

[Warmaker]

I've seen so little of the VF-4 that I care very little about it.

[sketchley]

Given it's lack of appearance in anime, and games*, I think it is rather unfavoured.

Personally, I rate it's artistic merit as high as I do of the VB-6, and Variable Glaug. All 3 of them had alternative modes designed at least a decade after they were originally finalized. It is relatively easy to design all 3 modes at the same time (and ammend the other modes as needed), then the relatively harder process of being stuck with the bits and peices of one mode, because they have become cannon.

I like some of the other VFs more (the ones in Macross 7, because of they are both simple and complex at the same time,) but the VF-4, VB-6, and Variable Glaug are, IMHO, the more imaginative designs.

*Flashback 2012, and VF-X1. Funny that it does appear in Kikimoto's manga... and is one only a few VFs to actually appear in the manga too!

[ly000001]

I think that he never intended to really develop the VF-4, let's face it it really doesn't show up that much in any of the animation. A model in SDF and DYRL, and a couple of brief flyby's in 2012. I almost wonder if he even meant for it to be a variable fighter.

In the Macross article in issue 11 of Animag (any fellow old-timers remember that mag?), it says in regards to "Flashback 2012":

Hikaru Ichijo also makes an appearance in his Valkyrie VF-4, a completely new fighter Kawamori declines to describe as transforming. "I guess it does," he says reluctantly. "I thought it would be fun to make it different-looking."

[sketchley]

I remember that 'zine. Wah... have times changes since back then.

I was doing some more thinking on the VF-4, and I think that Kawamori is unhappy with it. My supposition is based on later incarnations of basically the same jet mode shape, in the VF-14, and Fz-109.

[SpacyAce2012]

A variation of the VF-4 appeared in a video game long before Digital Mission VF-X. Macross: Eternal Love Song (or something like that; a sequel to the Macross 2036 game). Kawamori declared it non-canon.

I believe it was dubbed the "Siren".

[Wes]

Over in op4_delta's Asuka thread Egan Loo made this enigmatic comment:

So what is Kawamori's opinion on the VF-4? Does he love hate, thinks he could have done better? Inquiring minds (and the cult of Lightning) want to know!

It's not so much that he hate it, it's that he hates you. Great, now that Kawamori knows you like it, we'll never see it again! j/k (we all know he never visits these boards )

But isn't there text+pics in the Design Works books? Maybe our Japanese-speaking friends could use it to tell us more.

[sketchley]

Design works tends to tell about the process of creating the design, and not much more. In this case, interviews will be more telling of his opinion.

[TheLoneWolf]

I could be wrong, but I remember reading somewhere that during the production of Macross VFX Kawamori and UNiT disagreed over the battroid design of the VF-4. Maybe Kawamori made some compromises to the battroid mode for the sake of the game, a decision that he now regrets?

I think it's safe to say that the VF-4 was always intended to be a variable fighter, hence the "VF" prefix.

[Lightning]

Well, I'm happy that somebody put up this thread 'fore I did, even more so that it was another one of the OG CoL members!

anyways, there's still nothing out yet?

Egan, you listening?

[Zinjo]

I wonder if it was one of those designs he threw together for 2012 and never really expected to "have" to revisit.

Remember, after 2012, he swore off Macross projects and was probably a bit annoyed that after nearly a decade he was expected to figure out how his uniquely cool looking jet fighter was to transform with what he may have considered a "throw away design" back in 1987...

[Lightning]

I wonder if it was one of those designs he threw together for 2012 and never really expected to "have" to revisit.

Remember, after 2012, he swore off Macross projects and was probably a bit annoyed that after nearly a decade he was expected to figure out how his uniquely cool looking jet fighter was to transform with what he may have considered a "throw away design" back in 1987...

I hope not, but it would definately be nice to know what he thinks of it though...

[Scream Man]

did we ever hear the definitive answer on this question?

[Keith]

The definative answer is that Kawamori has deemed us lowly humans not yet worthy to experience more of the VF-4.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Who cares? The floating Afos that transforms into a flower is cooler looking imo.

[Lightning]

The definative answer is that Kawamori has deemed us lowly humans not yet worthy to experience more of the VF-4.

we need to see more of it......we got really weird looking TF's for the movie, didn't we?

[Sumdumgai]

The transformation of the VF-4 still boggles my mind. I mean we have those diagrams showing the transformation in the Design Works book, but damn...

I actually like the battroid and gerwalk design, although my favorite is fighter. If there's no VF-4 released, then I hope for a VF-14 toy.

[Lightning]

it's not really complicated, it's similar to the -19's transformation, just the legs are different, that's all.

[Sumdumgai]

It's the way the lower belly and hips move into place that I can't figure out without lots of panels or anime magic. Also how the nose folds down and slides back when there's that fin under the cockpit.

[sketchley]

The fin folds up into the cockpit (into the pilot's butt???)

The upper part of the leg compose the underside of the wings between the cockpit and the engine nacelles. When it transforms, the knees move from the midpoint of the nacelles to their front/top. The rear-view of the battroid shows the louvres(???) that fill in the space behind the knee joint as it moves up the leg.

[David Hingtgen]

I'd suggest looking over the SHE VF-4 instructions, shows it step-by-step. Generally--there's a LOT of parts and folding panels involved.

[UN Spacy]

Fellas.

It's 2007 = The 20th Anniversary of Flashback 2012 (06/87).....don't ya think it'd be SWEET if Yamato (hint hint) anounced they have a 1/48 VF-4 Lightning III in the works?

[Ignacio Ocamica]

Fellas.

It's 2007 = The 20th Anniversary of Flashback 2012 (06/87).....don't ya think it'd be SWEET if Yamato (hint hint) anounced they have a 1/48 VF-4 Lightning III in the works?

Yes please!!!

I do believe that sooner or later we'll be getting the VF-4. I remeber on that interview Graham had with Yamato a few years back that they were contemplating making the VF-4 and possibly the Macross

[Apollo Leader]

Fellas.

It's 2007 = The 20th Anniversary of Flashback 2012 (06/87).....don't ya think it'd be SWEET if Yamato (hint hint) anounced they have a 1/48 VF-4 Lightning III in the works?

[Zinjo]

No thanks....

There are so many other Variable fighter designs that come to mind before that thing....

For those that like it, more power to ya.

I can't be counted in that list of fans...

[PsYcHoDyNaMiX]

VF-2SS plox... XD (even though the transformation process is similar to the original VF-1 variants. Hell, or even the Star Mirage plox (VF-5000).

[Hiriyu]

This thread needs, nay, DEMANDS pics. Lots of pics. I wanna see VF-4 goodness splattered all over this baby blue pages. Then we can dissect the pics and find out why Kawarmori either loves or hate the design.

Your wish is granted. However, we need some Gerwalk pics too. Also, the first pic of the VF-4 is mislabeled, iirc the caption should read 'VFX-3'.

[Mr March]

This thread needs, nay, DEMANDS pics. Lots of pics. I wanna see VF-4 goodness splattered all over this baby blue pages. Then we can dissect the pics and find out why Kawarmori either loves or hate the design.

I'm working on it...I'm working on it. Will appear in the next update

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

All I know is that I wouldn't mind a 1/48 scale vf-4. Yamato is crazy for not making it. I have no idea how it would transform or how good it would look in battroid, but it looks so nice in fighter mode that I probably wouldn't transform it much anyway.