Opinion on Macross Plus

[Zinjo]

hate to break it to you, but the plot of: reckless but talented hotshot versus stuffy by the book hard worker isn't exactly a new plot. The myth of cain and abel is pretty much the same story, substituting farming for flying around in jets.

I'm not saying it's an original premise, I am saying the stories are similar in much more than just a generalized way.

Only SK knows if one actually influenced the other, and frankly I don't care if TG did influence the story of Mac Plus.

I enjoy Mac Plus on it's own merits, not because it shares similar themes and elements to another film.

[eugimon]

I'm not saying it's an original premise, I am saying the stories are similar in much more than just a generalized way.

Only SK knows if one actually influenced the other, and frankly I don't care if TG did influence the story of Mac Plus.

I enjoy Mac Plus on it's own merits, not because it shares similar themes and elements to another film.

well, there's some pretty big differences as well.

isamu and guld were childhood friends, split by a deep betrayal.

iceman just doesn't like maveric, cuz he's crazy and all mavericky

there's a significant love triangle in mac plus

there are significant gay overtones in top gun

isamu never really grows up

maverick is driven to become more responsible over guilt for the death of his friend

iceman doesn't change much, pretty much a 2d character

guld recognizes his role in the death of the friendship and works to make amends

there are similarities between the two, but the character motivations and arcs are pretty different

[grss1982]

Agreed.

[mitch]

Sorry folks, I feel I have to wade in on this one with my own two cents...

The animation is stunning; the mecha are hand drawn and the action is extremely well directed and rendered (personally, I felt that the CG Valks from MacZero lacked weight behind them and moved too quickly in Battroid mode). It seems that fewer and fewer shows take the time and effort over this kind of technical animation these days when approaching their mechanical elements (remember, this was back when animation was still drawn and painted on cels), and the YF-19 and YF-21 are masterpieces of mecha design.

The soundtrack is brilliant. Yoko Kanno Rules. End of story.

Shinchiro Watanabe rocks. Fact.

When compared to Mac7's Mac0's and Mac2's plotlines, Mac+'s plotline is second only to the original Macross. It may not address the grand themes of the origin of humanity and it's place in the universal scheme of things, but focuses on three people driven by their passions and living for their dreams and the prices they pay for doing so. It expands the Macross universe in smaller ways by showing us the "peace" children and Zentradi integration into human culture (anyone else think the YF-21 Battroid bares a marked resemblance to Queadluun Rau?), the development of the Valkyrie program, the colonization of other worlds, and portrays UN Spacy as a more realistic military/industrial complex and not just a "defender of humanity".

The cast are all flawed in ways that flesh out the characters and make them more believable. Even after humanity has clawed its way back from the brink of extinction at the hands of an alien armada, some of its greatest threats are of its own design and stem from it's own shortcomings.

It contains the classic and reoccurring Macross themes of a love triangle, Idol singers and transforming mechs. Fair enough, the story can seem to move a bit slowly at times, but it carries an emotional depth and maturity that are sorely missing in other stories (Mac2 and Mac7, I'm looking at you...).

I once heard it described in a mathematic formula as; Top Gun + transforming aircraft + AI pop stars - homoerotic sub content and Air Force recruiting tool x intergalactic setting = Macross Plus (but I still think that doesn't do it justice).

Okay, rant over

[jenius]

Meh, I just didn't really like Isamu, Guld, or the girl. Maybe if the show was longer they could have developed the stories a bit better. It's the problem I've been having with Macross since the original. I didn't like Isamu, I liked Basara less, and I didn't care about Shin either. I do think had Shin or Isamu been given the amount of on-screen time that Basara had either of them might have been able to become likeable through a lot of development but in the short stints on-screen that just never happened. As it is, the lofty themes just fail to really develop and it comes off as a bunch of show-off apefaces who don't get along getting in fight and then hugging and making up. Even their raid on Earth just comes off as another vainglorious stunt. I like the show, a lot, but the character angle just doesn't grab me. Like I said, they may have been victim's to the show's exceedingly short length though. You know, with Maverick we at least got a scene (Goose's death) that made him into a sympathetic character.

[eugimon]

well, with isamu we see him walking away from myung and guld and living with the stigma of "traitor" in order to protect guld's psyche... for me, that made him a pretty strong person.

[Keith]

Definately gonna have to disagree with you there, Macross Plus was pretty shallow on character developement, especially compared to 7.

[bsu legato]

Meh, I just didn't really like Isamu, Guld, or the girl.

See, too many people fall into this trap of wanting to like characters, almost as if they were going to hang out for beers & pool. Is it not possible to have a decently written and acted main character that you don't like as a person? Look at a film like DePalma's Scarface, for example. Tony is completely and utterly without any redeeming qualities, yet we're able to watch him for nearly 3 hours.

[myk]

well, with isamu we see him walking away from myung and guld and living with the stigma of "traitor" in order to protect guld's psyche... for me, that made him a pretty strong person.

I always tried to look beyond the story and think that maybe Isamu was made a military/political scapgoat. Something as tenuous as the Armistice Treaty couldn't be endagered or publicly tarnished by the impulsive, violent act of one half-breed kid.

Anyway YF-21, dogfight, Lucy, breasts and freckles make 'Plus the best that the Macross universe has to offer...

[jenius]

Is it not possible to have a decently written and acted main character that you don't like as a person? Look at a film like DePalma's Scarface, for example.

By "like" I do not mean I want to be their friend, by "like" I mean I want to know more about them and how they became who they are and what will become of them. I didn't care about Basara so I didn't care about his singing at a mountain and what gave him his passion... he didn't involve me into the story. I like the Scarface character because he does draw you in. He's an ass but he makes you want to know what's going to happen next. Writing is a complex art and everyone has different tastes to cater to. The characters themselves are also products of their environments and this too can have a deep impression on whether or not you "like" them. So, in the case of the M+ characters there might not even be one tangible thing you can point to as a reason you're put off by them, it could simply be because of the way they interact with larger universe as a whole. Anyway you put it, I did not find any of the three or their interactions with each other to be a reason to come back to the show, it's the mech porn that draws you in. So, again, I still very much like the series but I found the characters to be pretty sophomoric from a writing standpoint but when a series is only so long some times you have to settle for sophomoric.

[Zinjo]

By "like" I do not mean I want to be their friend, by "like" I mean I want to know more about them and how they became who they are and what will become of them. I didn't care about Basara so I didn't care about his singing at a mountain and what gave him his passion... he didn't involve me into the story. I like the Scarface character because he does draw you in. He's an ass but he makes you want to know what's going to happen next. Writing is a complex art and everyone has different tastes to cater to. The characters themselves are also products of their environments and this too can have a deep impression on whether or not you "like" them. So, in the case of the M+ characters there might not even be one tangible thing you can point to as a reason you're put off by them, it could simply be because of the way they interact with larger universe as a whole. Anyway you put it, I did not find any of the three or their interactions with each other to be a reason to come back to the show, it's the mech porn that draws you in. So, again, I still very much like the series but I found the characters to be pretty sophomoric from a writing standpoint but when a series is only so long some times you have to settle for sophomoric.

In other words you didn't find the characters interesting enough to be engaging or for them to engage you into their individual stories?

Tony Montana isn't a likeable character in a hero sense, but he is an intersting anti-hero that makes you want to find out about his story.

[jenius]

In other words you didn't find the characters interesting enough to be engaging or for them to engage you into their individual stories?

Tony Montana isn't a likeable character in a hero sense, but he is an intersting anti-hero that makes you want to find out about his story.

Yep, well summarized. It's totally that subjective "eh, they just didn't really grab me" thing so I definitely can see where people would disagree.

[DeathHammer]

Please Delete Thanks

Edited February 9, 2010 by DeathHammer

[eugimon]

I think mac plus characters are very relevent with real character arcs:

all three characters are closed off emotionally due to what happened between them and each of them look to fill that hole:

isamu: reckless adrenaline junkie, not willing to confront guld's crime out of loyality.

myung: lowered sense of self worth, attempts to fill that void through sharon

guld: sublimates his own guilt and shame and subconsciously tries to make things right by winning myung and beating isamu.

it's not as defined as SDF or as drastic as mac 7, but each character is forced to confront the past and move forward.

[jenius]

Maybe it's just the subject matter. The whole quasi-rape thing isn't a very appealing arch. I end up learning that three characters I don't really connect with don't get along because of a subject I feel kind of uncomfortable with. Basically it seems like Guld should be beyond redemption, Isamu should feel no loyalty to him, and Myung should get as far as she can away from both of them anyway (from my narrow perspective).

[sketchley]

Jenius, I think that they were as far away from each other as they could possibly get, and fate (or the producers/writers) threw them back together. Conflict always makes for good drama.

I would have enjoyed seeing more of the Zentraedi/Human social conflict on a broader scale. It would have been easier to understand why Guld behaved the way he did if the issue was addressed in more detail. What was the social dynamic between humans and Zentraedi post SWI?

There's a little bit more fleshing out occuring in Macross 7 - though as the Japanese people consider themselves to be a 99% homogenius population, they probably don't consider the topic of race relations inside of a single culture, or it could even be cultural taboo. Either way, a series like Macross 7 or Plus isn't really the right venue to explore such things. Just look at how the exploration of a none violent means to resolve conflicts alienated a bunch of Macross fans.

Anyhow, back to the fleshing out in Macross 7: colony fleets designed for Zentraedi and (exclusively?) crewed and populated by them. Mecha designed for Zentraedi. Even in the City 7 ship, there doesn't appear to be that many Zentraedi present (pointy ears, lack of eyebrows, etc..) Segregation... by choice, or design? Hard to say. But I do feel that, in the context of the story, there is some pro-human actions going on. Pity that they couldn't have exploited that with an arc of the story dealing with racism towards people of mixed ethniticity. Again, not something that is big enough to appear on the radar map in Japan. (If Macross 7 were made now, it'd be reflecting the high rate of student suicide from bullying...)

[do not disturb]

i like macplus.

the story was okay, it didn't bother me like some of you guys. i can't say they had real "character development" but enough for what it was. some of you guys are forgetting, its a movie/4 epi OVA, so you can't actually expect the same kind of character development found in the macross TV series....considering the TV series was literally 30 times longer.

people praise DYRL all the time but if you really think about it DYRL kind of sucked. if you never watched the TV series, you wouldn't have a clue what the hells going on, nor have any idea who any of the characters are whatsoever. we get it and love it because we're fans and we grew up watch robotech/macross as kids. i think if one of us who never saw the TV show walked into a theatre today, we'd all be like WTF is going on here?, none of this crap makes any sense, this shiet is lame but atleast the planes we're cool....but thats really about it.

gettting back to macplus, the music was good, definitely better than minmey singing the same song over and over...which BTW i cannot stand even til today. i'm not even into the music like that but its more tolerable than the cheesy music found in both the japan/US TV series, DYRL, definitely better than mac7(haven't seen it but i was subjected to listen to some of the songs against my will).

the animation is kick ass, there not much more to say there. the only thing that maybe comes close is the fight scenes in maczero. i think as long as you don't compare macplus to the macross TV series, its a little easier to accept it for what it is, a decent entertaining anime with kick ass fighting. basically if i spent 10 bucks to watch it today, i wouldn't be at the ticket booth asking for a refund.

[jenius]

we get it and love it because we're fans and we grew up watch robotech/macross as kids. i think if one of us who never saw the TV show walked into a theatre today, we'd all be like WTF is going on here?, none of this crap makes any sense, this shiet is lame but atleast the planes we're cool....but thats really about it.

I'm going to actually test this. It may take some time but I have enough friends who see my toy collection and say "Holy S*IT, I never knew you were a Transformers nerd!" That's usually followed by "I don't recognize these guys, why do they all look the same and where's Optimus?" It would be interesting to see what one of them says after viewing Do You Remember Love since none of those friends seem to have any knowledge of Robotech or Macross.

better than mac7(haven't seen it but i was subjected to listen to some of the songs against my will).

I wish I knew video editing because I totally want to modify the scene from A Clockwork Orange now and show the guy strapped into his chair being forced to watch & listen to Mac7 instead of man's atrocities or whatever it was he was being subjected to.

[kaiotheforsaken]

Mac+ was actually my first exposure to the the Macross universe, and I was interested in it initially due to the VF-11 design. I wound up being quite a fan of the series and branched off to mac0 and SDF Macross.

Being that it was my first exposure to Macross in general my opinion may be a bit biased, as I had no frame of reference to other characters or story arcs from the original.

And strangely enough I first became interested in Evangelion through the mecha design, it seems to happen alot.

Edited November 26, 2006 by kaiotheforsaken

[SpacyAce2012]

Overall, Macross Plus was enjoyable. In fact, I'm a fan of both versions released.

I would daresay that it was one of the top sequels to SDFM, in terms of animation and action.

[Warmaker]

For Macross Plus, I have these Pro's & Con's

CON'S

- Characters I didn't care much for.

- Character Designs I didn't care much for.

- So-So Story

- Blazing through Earth's defenses like a hot knife through butter (That's Mike Tyson "Ludicrous")

PRO'S

+ Great Valkyrie Designs

+ Mecha Combat

M+ has serious deficiencies for me, but the Valk designs and combat offset it enough where the show is good enough.

[op4_delta]

At least we don´t see a shower scene and half naked, sweaty beach volleyball. Not to mention the moustache.

To me Macross Plus was just OK. Isamu was an "ASS-1 hole", rapist and all Guld was a better character.

[wldr]

Personally I think Macross Plus was a very solid sequal. The VF's are cool, and the fight scenes even better. For the overall short length of the series, and the movie version, character development wasn't bad. Good job in my opinion.

[Skullsixx]

See, too many people fall into this trap of wanting to like characters, almost as if they were going to hang out for beers & pool. Is it not possible to have a decently written and acted main character that you don't like as a person? Look at a film like DePalma's Scarface, for example. Tony is completely and utterly without any redeeming qualities, yet we're able to watch him for nearly 3 hours.

Totally true!!! No one was perfect, and I thought that was pretty cool! Isamu had his ego, Guld.. well, he was just a schmuck trying to keep up with Isamu and his ego, and Myung... she couldn't make up her frakin' mind!!!

[eugimon]

At least we don´t see a shower scene and half naked, sweaty beach volleyball. Not to mention the moustache.

To me Macross Plus was just OK. Isamu was an "ASS-1 hole", rapist and all Guld was a better character.

how is isamu a rapist?

[Keith]

He meant Guld, and there's never any proof as to Guld being a rapist, all that's shown is a raged outburst & ripping Myungs clothes. After that (given by what little is shown) I'd say he looked in the mirror, freaked out, blacked out, and completely jumpled events in his head, believing that Myung couldn't have possibly chosen Isamu over him, and that Isamu must have been raping her.

[eugimon]

He meant Guld, and there's never any proof as to Guld being a rapist, all that's shown is a raged outburst & ripping Myungs clothes. After that (given by what little is shown) I'd say he looked in the mirror, freaked out, blacked out, and completely jumpled events in his head, believing that Myung couldn't have possibly chosen Isamu over him, and that Isamu must have been raping her.

oh, gotcha. I thought maybe I missed something... haha.

[Macross73]

Sometimes i wish there had been an actual military conflict in the background by that I mean as interesting as the Plot was between the 3 characaters - 4 with Sharon, I half expected more prominent battles between 2 or 3 military factions to take place.

[SpacyAce2012]

Quote from Keith:

He meant Guld, and there's never any proof as to Guld being a rapist, all that's shown is a raged outburst & ripping Myungs clothes. After that (given by what little is shown) I'd say he looked in the mirror, freaked out, blacked out, and completely jumpled events in his head, believing that Myung couldn't have possibly chosen Isamu over him, and that Isamu must have been raping her.

I agree with this. In fact, I came to a similar conclusion when I first watched the series back in the '90s.

Quote from Macross73:

Sometimes i wish there had been an actual military conflict in the background by that I mean as interesting as the Plot was between the 3 characaters - 4 with Sharon, I half expected more prominent battles between 2 or 3 military factions to take place.

I found the setting of Macross Plus to be a refreshing change of pace, myself. A military sponsored competition, between two corporations for a big government contract, was interesting in itself. Toss in an illegal AI experiment, some disfunctional characters, and watch all hell break loose.