2007, the big date for Macross ?

[Zinjo]

It's actually an anthology series with the new Studio 4C including some heavy hitters in anime like Shinichiro Watanabe, Hideki Futamura, Shinosuke Harada Shoji Kawamori, etc....

SK's contribution is called "Space-Time Wars".

Whether it will be a Macross story or not, is unclear, but the few bits of available art suggests it won't be.

It appears to be along the lines of anthologies like Robot Carnival, Animatrix, etc... but more ambitious as each "episode" appears to be longer than 10 or 15 minutes. Each episode is described as a "movie" so I am not sure whether that means each gets 2 hours or less...

Sounds fairly exciting!

The list of contributors are:

“10 leading Japanese Animation creators of today come together to offer a stunning visual feast of cutting edge imagery and artistry. 10 geniuses, 10 completely new works. In production NOW!â€

Dimension Bomb

Dir: Koji Morimoto

Twilight World

Dir: Shinichiro Watanabe

Nayorani

Dir: Mahiro Maeda

Space-Time Wars

Dir: Shoji Kawamori

Dream Machine

Dir: Masaaki Yuasa

Genius Party

Dir: Atsuko Fukushima

Moondrive

Dir: Kazuto Nakazawa

Touni

Dir: Tadashi Hiramatsu

Limitcycle

Dir: Hideki Futamura

“Wanwa†the Puppy

Dir: Shinosuke Harada

*Information contained herein, including titles and content are subject to change.

Edited November 21, 2006 by Zinjo

[eugimon]

hmmm, that does sound pretty interesting. oh well, there's plenty of cool stuff coming out next year that I won't lose too much sleep if I don't get new macross.

[Dante74]

Wanwa the Puppy?

[Sevket_Erhat]

hmmm, that does sound pretty interesting. oh well, there's plenty of cool stuff coming out next year that I won't lose too much sleep if I don't get new macross.

Well I know that most of you would disagree but I'm happy that a new Robotech movie is coming out and I surely would prefer new Macross over anything (anime or movie) any given day.

What I really would like to see is a story about what happened to Hikaru as we already got the scoop on Fokker,Milia and Max

[jenius]

Focker's dead, there's not much story left to tell. We do get some more in MacZero though and that was nice. We get what we need about Max & Milia in Mac7 also. So basically, Hikaru, Misa, and Minmay are the only real untold stories and Minmay is a civilian singer so there's probably not much of a story there to tell. Now, what happened to Hik and Misa could be cool but I accepted long ago that they were just gone so i could live with something completely new.

[Sevket_Erhat]

Focker's dead, there's not much story left to tell. We do get some more in MacZero though and that was nice. We get what we need about Max & Milia in Mac7 also. So basically, Hikaru, Misa, and Minmay are the only real untold stories and Minmay is a civilian singer so there's probably not much of a story there to tell. Now, what happened to Hik and Misa could be cool but I accepted long ago that they were just gone so i could live with something completely new.

A brand new story would be fine with me too. Maybe it should involve Isamu and Guld in some form of battle

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

What I really would like to see is a story about what happened to Hikaru as we already got the scoop on Fokker,Milia and Max

Yeah, he and Misa could meet the Robotech Masters and the missing REF. Or the Invid Regis?

"Oi! You punks! Go design your own mecha!" *Fires main gun*.

[eugimon]

A brand new story would be fine with me too. Maybe it should involve Isamu and Guld in some form of battle

that would be interesting... macross: zombie invasion! you know, since guld is all... dead and squishy now...

[Sevket_Erhat]

that would be interesting... macross: zombie invasion! you know, since guld is all... dead and squishy now...

I can swear I saw someone resembling Guld in Macross 7 in which Sivil starts to wreck havoc in the city.

Here is proof

[attachmentid=38373] [attachmentid=38374]

Edited November 22, 2006 by Sevket_Erhat

[sketchley]

That's not Guld. It's Mr. John Doe Zentraedi.

There was some further information on Hikaru and Misa (beyond what's written in the compendium): Pg 75, and 76-77 of "Macross Graffiti Best Hit Series".

If you don't happen to have that book handy:

Pg 75 Wedding of Hikaru and Misa, dated 2011.10.10.

Pg 76-77 Max and Miria with a toddler and a baby, and Hikaru and Misa with a single brown haired baby. The image is dated October 18th, of the 0003 year of the New Era calendar*.)

* For those that don't: 2013 being year 0001 of the calender.

[Lightning]

so when did the N.E. calendar pop up? I haven't heard of it before.

[sketchley]

Post SWI. I'm not sure if it was mentioned in Flashback 2012, but the new calender disappears in Macross productions between Flashback 2012 and Macross Plus/7.

IMHO, I think it was just the production team (the original) Macross (who are big Gundam fans,) pulling a "Gundam", by attempting their own Universal Century. And yes, Macross even has space colonies...

[DeathHammer]

Please Delete Thanks

Edited February 9, 2010 by DeathHammer

[grss1982]

25th Year and nothing special. This sucks.

[Sevket_Erhat]

The problem with Macross' lack of mainstream US appeal extends far past Kawamori and his writing.

The typical American audience can handle animation like The Simpsons or King of the Hill. An animated sitcom. There has never been a dramatic animated series in US prime time that has broken through to mainstream popularity.

And let's be realistic, with current ad based network TV, there is no way you can tell a cutting edge story like Macross. Too much pressure on advertisers by professional whiners who will want to know why there aren't more black people or gay people or why there is so much violence or why Misa isn't in charge because she's a super strong independent woman.

It's not like the old days when we were kids and there was nothing to compete with the cartoons. Now, kids have a ton of options for entertainment. The only reason Macross has some prosperity now is all those kids grew up and are in their prime earning years now. This franchise will die without new blood.

So in my eyes, the only way Macross could get a fat shot in the arm in terms of fan appeal is to end up on a subscriber based cable network like HBO. And that will never happen because a US audience will never accept a dramatic animated prime time series, at least not now, no matter how well it's written.

I never believed Kawamori or any other anime maker makes anime with only USA audiences in mind. That is totally irrelevant in my opinion.

I'm not american and I can agree if you say some issues discussed in animes or videogames (it happened to me in Metal Gear Solid series) does not appeal to us like japanese

[jenius]

I don't know about a prime time cartoon that's not a sitcom in the US doing well but Cartoon Network's adult swim certainly did well with some anime. I would agree that you'll never see anime in our primetime slots on the big channels but there's a billion cable channels, anime can still do well here. US definitely does have some different tastes from other countries though.

[sketchley]

How many Macross productions have been released in English, let alone the US market?

Anime: 4 of 10*

Games: 0 of 5**

Manga: 0 of 1

Macross is definitely not being released for the international audience. If anything, international sales are only the icing on the cake.

Also, Macross is definitely anything but a "mainstream, prime time" anime. There are very, very few of those in Japan, and most of those are defined as very kid oriented ("Boy Detective Conan", and "Sazae San", are the ones that come to mind; and there is like 3 or 4 more tops.)

Sure, there are anime specialized channels here in Japan too, but they are monopolized by Gundam, Ghost in the Shell, and other recent, more popular anime. I've only seen Macross on TV twice here in Japan - both times were on a non-anime semi-family oriented specialty channel on cable TV, and they were marathons of Macross Zero and Plus, that started after midnight. That's twice, in the 3+ years that I've been living here. I've seen more Gundam Seed, Ghost in the Shell, Conan, and Sazae San being broadcast than I have of Macross.

I'm not saying we shouldn't expect something, but be prepared for something that is small - like the 20th Anniversary DVD.

*I'm counting the Macross 7 TV series, movie, and OVA series seperately, just as SDF:M and DYRL are seperate.

** only including games from the Playstation and Sega onwards.

[Keith]

There has never been a dramatic animated series in US prime time that has broken through to mainstream popularity.

What about Invasion America.......ok, I've stopped laughing now.

[DeathHammer]

Please Delete Thanks

Edited February 9, 2010 by DeathHammer

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

How many Macross productions have been released in English, let alone the US market?

Anime: 4 of 10*

Games: 0 of 5**

Manga: 0 of 1

Macross is definitely not being released for the international audience. If anything, international sales are only the icing on the cake.

Isn't that mainly due to HG and their International rights more then anything else?

[Keith]

I honestly don't see why Macross "needs" to continue. If Kawamori gives us one final bang-up movie, OVA, or series to wrap things up, I'd be quite happy. I don't see it as a franchise that needs to continue infinitum, and most certainly not one that needs to be ruined by "new blood."

If you want that, there's Gundam, and as much as I like Gundam, I don't want it in my Macross.

[big F]

Without new blood, the Macross franchise will die.

I really think the time to roll the dice with a cutting edge new Macross series is now. Do it before your established fan base is reduced to living on fixed incomes and cat food. We are all seeing modern television grovel on it's knees to political correctness and advertisers, but we are also seeing networks taking huge risks with programming they would have never aired 20 years ago and are finding alot of success.

Amen to that.

If only the T.V in the U.K was entirely Pay per View, it would be the cheapest bill in my house hold.

Edited November 23, 2006 by big F

[sketchley]

Isn't that mainly due to HG and their International rights more then anything else?

Could be, but please note that when I say 'in English', I mean releases outside of North America in other English speaking countries. HG hasn't stopped the release of Macross in other languages such as Korean, Chinese, Tagalog, Spanish, etc.; why should they be bothered to enter an expensive legal battle in a foreign English speaking country? Precedents...

A quick check of wikipedia (yes, not the most verifiable reference, but being used as a barometer in this case) reveals translations of the SDF:M page into French, Bahasa Indonesian, Italian, Japanese, Chinese, and Crylic/Russian. Of all of the links, only the English and Crylic/Russian pages have a section on legal issues. I am not sure if they mention HG in that section, but they do have links to Tokyo, and the USA in it.

Nevertheless, even with the presence of HG and it's potential of legal problems, it still implies that Macross is not deemed bankable enough to be translated into English any more than it has been.

Edited November 24, 2006 by sketchley

[jenius]

Nevertheless, even with the presence of HG and it's potential of legal problems, it still implies that Macross is not deemed bankable enough to be translated into English any more than it has been.

It was bankable enough for Robotech to even exist though and Robotech nearly spawned a sequel if it weren't for the collapse of the Yen (or was it the dollar?). The fact is that HG was out to squash Macross in English and they are at this very moment bringing over the original in dub fashion. I'm not really sure what your point is but the Macross name has a very dirty English past mired in many difficulties. It would absolutely not be fair to say that Macross isn't bankable to English-speakers based on that troubled past.

[sketchley]

Uhm, pre- and post-Plaza Accord monitary exchange and the ability to import (or export) an anime series-for-profit are apples, and oranges, my friend. Aside from the financial implications, there's also the cultural paradigm shift to take into consideration that occured through the late '80's and early '90's.

Nevertheless, my point is all about the Macross that wasn't in English, not the Macross that has already been in English, whether in badly done dub, or corrected sub. The bankability relates to the Macross product that has not, or has yet to be released. But you are correct, the troubled past of what has been brought into English, and the potential of more legal troubles for an importer does have a negative impact on the potential bankability, or profit, of any future imports.

Edited November 24, 2006 by sketchley

[jenius]

The bankability relates to the Macross product that has not, or has yet to be released. But you are correct, the troubled past of what has been brought into English, and the potential of more legal troubles for an importer does have a negative impact on the potential bankability, or profit, of any future imports.

I was told by an angry otaku once that anime's creation never considered the bankability to outside countries (this otaku may have also been a bit of a nationalist). He told me that the projects were specifically created to make money in Japan and anything made in the foreign markets subsequently was just icing on the cake. I found this hard to believe but not being in the anime business I just shrugged it off. Would you say this person was definitely wrong?

[Keith]

The majority of anime gets about as much international appeal consideration as the majority of U.S. TV series. Do you honestly think they're writing episodes of the Simpsons with the concern of how they'll do in Japan?

[jenius]

The majority of anime gets about as much international appeal consideration as the majority of U.S. TV series. Do you honestly think they're writing episodes of the Simpsons with the concern of how they'll do in Japan?

Good point but the Simpsons, while a cash cow now, never seemed dependent upon toy sales. I don't know who was the original financier of the Simpsons but I highly doubt it was a company like Bandai. Maybe I have the wrong impression though. It seems to me like American shows are purely made with the hope of drawing as many viewers as possible and selling commericals whereas it always seems to me that anime franchises are directly related to toy manufacturers. Admittedly, I could be completely wrong and the only reason it seems that way is because I like anime toys.

My reason for stating the question was not to imply that the writing of shows had any consideration for foreign audiences. The reason I asked was more to determine if the Macross franchise is suffering production-wise from HG's refusing to allow it to permeate to the US. Is there a Japanese business man somewhere crunching the numbers and concluding that Macross isn't as viable a franchise as some other franchises because they'll never see extra cash on the back end from US distribution?

Edited November 24, 2006 by jenius

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Could be, but please note that when I say 'in English', I mean releases outside of North America in other English speaking countries. HG hasn't stopped the release of Macross in other languages such as Korean, Chinese, Tagalog, Spanish, etc.; why should they be bothered to enter an expensive legal battle in a foreign English speaking country? Precedents...

Going a bit off tangent here but I watched 'Macross' in Singapore back in the 80s. It was on National TV and I don't think the broadcast Co uses bootleg stuff (i.e. I am sure it was licensed). But what I watched was "Robotech" Dubbed in Mandarin. Hikaru was called 'Rick' (or at least the mandarin equilvalent of 'Rick'). The Intro was Macross though (i.e. no robotech font). I suspect HG owning the International rights, just resold the unedited Macross to Singapore's broadcaster.

In addition, across the border in Malaysia, they were showing Robotech (this one was definitely robotech because the intro had the big honking ROBOTECH words) dubbed in Malay.

So I think HG actually made money reselling Macross to the rest of the world (at least to Singapore and Malaysia). Thats why they never entered into any expensive legal battles in a foreign country. They didnt need to because they sold the damn product! They may have sold both the unedited Macross or the edited Robotech but the fact is they were the ones selling it and not the Japanese Co.

[eugimon]

a friend of mine is pretty involved in the production work of films and television for the japanese market. From my numerous conversations with him regarding the state of movies and anime with him, I gather the impression that most creators are concerned only with how their projects will do in the japanese market. Some projects are made with numerous markets in mind ( joint projects with other nations) but these are rare.. apparantly there just isn't enough money where producers are willing to gamble on foreign markets.

[sketchley]

Jenius, the icing on the cake line sounds like something I used in the past few days either in this very thread, or elsewhere in these forums. It's funny that you should ask me it. (BTW, I agree with the fan, but as the point of the post is marketability in English, including that in the post would've dilluted the main point.)

There may very well be Japanese (and other nationalities) crunching numbers, but without a domestic partner, it's hard (to impossible, depending on the laws of the country) to start a business in that foreign country. Japanese businessmen aren't they type to stab others in the back, and steal their ideas. The vast majority here prefer to work together for the common profit. So, please don't feel that it is the Japanese who are preventing the release of anime in other countries. If anything, it is unscrupulous businessmen *cough* HG *cough* who're trying to trick Japanese business into agreeing to some kind of unequal or exploitive licensing agreement. Ah... the capitalist paradigm vs. the guided economy paradigm...

With the limited releases of Macross in English, it may very well be that domestic distributors are unaware of the potential profit they can make from releasing more Macross series - or the flip side, they are very, very aware of the (limited) potential for profit, and are investing in less risky (usually meaning movies and OVAs) anime to import.* In this case, the fans need to make requests to the domestic distributors to release Macross, and follow through with their requests, by actually buying the releases - pirating hurts everyone.

As for Macross production suffering in general: it is an entirely domestic (to Japan) situation. On the one hand, until recently the country has been in an economic slump (despite the 'recovery,' people's salaries have yet to increase, and with inflation, the amount of money available for discretionary purchases is steadily shrinking**. In other words, there is less money floating around for anime to be created - so less (or no) money is being spent on anime that look like they will be anything but a sure-fire hit. On the other hand, Macross never has had the popularity of some other anime (Gundam, Sazae-san, Crayon Shin-chan, Boy Detective Conan, etc..) Macross is for a niche market, and niche markets have a harder time to make big, popular successes, thus sponsors, and their money, are fewer with less of it.

This is all my personal take on things here in Japan, and it may not be completely true, and it may be overly pessimisstic. Sensationalistic news is not good for the mind...

Re: Simpsons and anime for toys

Sponsorships. Fox originally (and continues???) to sponsor Simpson for - as stated previously - selling commercial airtime. Toy manufacturers tend to sponsor anime (as they do 'kid' cartoons in English, films like Star Wars, etc.) as they have the potential to make their investment back via product marketing. Of course they pay more for sequels and prequels to successful series as they know that there is a proven market for merchandising (makes you happy to purchase Macross products, don't it, 'cuz you know it's sending the right message to the very people who actually do sponsor the production of more Macross anime.)

* Macross Zero would be the most likely candidate for import, followed by Macross 7 Dynamite, and the Macross 7 movie. Macross 7 - well, the membership on fan websites like this have spoken (newer Macross productions suck, etc.), and domestic distributers are listening.

** Japan, the country, is rich. The Japanese people are not rich.

[sketchley]

Going a bit off tangent here but I watched 'Macross' in Singapore back in the 80s. It was on National TV and I don't think the broadcast Co uses bootleg stuff (i.e. I am sure it was licensed). But what I watched was "Robotech" Dubbed in Mandarin. Hikaru was called 'Rick' (or at least the mandarin equilvalent of 'Rick'). The Intro was Macross though (i.e. no robotech font). I suspect HG owning the International rights, just resold the unedited Macross to Singapore's broadcaster.

In addition, across the border in Malaysia, they were showing Robotech (this one was definitely robotech because the intro had the big honking ROBOTECH words) dubbed in Malay.

So I think HG actually made money reselling Macross to the rest of the world (at least to Singapore and Malaysia). Thats why they never entered into any expensive legal battles in a foreign country. They didnt need to because they sold the damn product! They may have sold both the unedited Macross or the edited Robotech but the fact is they were the ones selling it and not the Japanese Co.

Funny, you should mention this. In the wikipedia site (again, not the most reliable source), Bhasa Malay wasn't listed as one of the languages the page for Macross is available in. But, Bhasa Indonesian is...

Of course neither language shows up as alternative pages for the Robotech wikipedia page...

Edited November 24, 2006 by sketchley

[Zinjo]

Well IMO the most viable Macross property for the North American market is currently "Macross Zero".

The problem with Mac 7 is that it is so heavily reliant on the music elements, unless you have translated lyrics sung by the original artists, the show will be missing something integral ("To be in Love" from RT anyone?!), not to mention the Japanese record companies would likely make the licensing fees prohibative at the start.

Though there are more and more international co-productions coming out, something that was unheard of, even 10 years ago. IGPX, Animatrix, etc... I believe the producers are looking at international markets to co-finance these projects if indeed the money for entertainment production is on the lean side, then they should be.

North American cable networks have contributed more to quality television shows and innovative stories in the past 20 years than the mainstream networks have in the past 50.

The same can be said for indie films. Indie films or small studio productions have seen greater box office success than any of the formula movies from the major studios and it isn't because of the budgets, it's because of the openness to fresh ideas and the willingness to treat the audience as intelligent adults.

Therefore with this trend, new anime productions could benefit from this change in business model.

I agree that Macross saw it's greatest success when it targeted adolsecents and adults in SDFM and no doubt BigWest is still seeking that success, but hasn't found the "mix" that will create that level of explosive popularity.

Mac 7 may have come close, but kids are fickle and as soon as it was over it's popularity quickly waned.

BigWest would do well to look for international financing to offset any domestic shortfalls on new productions.

RT's success is directly attributable to it's anchor show "Macross". It kept me watching past the initial 36 episodes and even through the trash of the Southern Cross series in hopes of finding another "cool" chapter from that universe.

[sketchley]

Though there are more and more international co-productions coming out, something that was unheard of, even 10 years ago.

Ghost in the Shell, 1995; Kodansha, Bandai, and Manga Entertainment.

Agreed that joint/international productions were rare 10 years ago, but they were occuring.

[Zinjo]

Ghost in the Shell, 1995; Kodansha, Bandai, and Manga Entertainment.

Agreed that joint/international productions were rare 10 years ago, but they were occuring.

I stand corrected...