VF-1S 3D model

[Aurel Tristen]

My old VF-1 was getting... well... old. I started it 4 years ago, and slowly upgraded it over time, and just like if you did that with something in real life, it became a mess of modifications that clashed. Biggest problem was that the one thing I hadn't replaced, the nose section, was built from a 12 sided cylinder, so it ended up with very few faces when it got to the center of the chest. I have been avoiding this project for a while because It took me months to get the nosecone to look like it dose now, witch STILL isn't very accurate but much better than before. I don't know how I'm going to do it again.

Anyway, the problem I am having at the moment is the ailerons and flaps all together. I remember the model from the Valkyrie simulation project showing a single flap that opened, and folded out to enlarge the surface area. I see allot of real aircraft with the aileron broken into 2 equal parts, the outermost portion of witch moves for control, and the inner section dedicated just to lowering during take off and landing. The line art I am using shows a split, but I still don't know and I don't want to just DO it and end up going back. Does anyone have any illustrations of the VF-1 flap and aileron system?

Problem number 2: The folding wings are show in the line art with the break in the main fuselage (for the wings to fit into) riding all the way up to where the body splits for B configuration! Even ignoring this and bringing it down about a foot (or less) I still won't have room to rotate the wings all the way back without some part extruding through the 'shoulders.'

The reason why I ask here is simple. I could just come up with a solution that works, but I'm trying to be as accurate as I can with this model. Should I use different line art? What I have is the TV version of the VF-1, and so I'm a bit worried that when I transform it it won't look correct in the other modes. I suppose the best answer to this is to work with line art from a toy instead, but I don't have any, and I wanted some 'professional' opinions on the matter.

Here is the old VF I am replacing:

This is the latest image, you can see I started rebuilding parts (left side first) and adding new landing gear, a modeled out 3D intake fan, re-texturing the wing and leg, and I was going to copy it over, but thats when I realised how BAD B mode looks. The sholders are FAR to broad, and the body is just plane blocky (the air intakes on the chest place are intruded boxes!)

I may keep the arms, I just rebuilt them

[Prisoner]

It's give and take. STart with any lineart you want and modify to fit for each mode. I have seen that no line art I am aware of transforms to all modes perfectly so experiment with variations in proportions.

Definitely stay off of textures until you are happy that the model looks great in all forms since I suspect you may want to chnage proprtions as you try out each mode.

[Prisoner]

Also, try using the 48 as your model. It looks great in all modes. Just take a telephoto shot of it from long range and use it like you would line art. That should get you there quicker.

[mac666er]

If it's any help I had exactly the same problem with the SDF-1 I am building, the proportions just didn't allow the ship to transform. So I had to "pre-build" it with large blocks and I made some animations making sure it could transform. After that I started building it properly.

So, to stay true to the model, I suggest you try to tweak it to your liking. It is going to be hard... but a lot of fun.

Good luck!

mac

[Rodavan]

Nanashi - That's the thing , Macross is 2d , they "make" things fit , so we try to keep as close as possible , but then you must take a bit of artistic license otherwise your going to drive yourselve nuts .

Have fun with it .....

[Aurel Tristen]

Yeah, I ended up making allot of major changes with my old VF-1 and SDF-1 to get them to transform (Actually the only problem my SDF-1 had was the reflex cannon clipping through poo as it rotated and all that.

I can see the VF-19 really has that problem, seeing as how its toys don't look much like it, but that new Yamato Vf-1 looks VERY good in all modes to me, thats why I'm wondering if I should just ask one of you for a good scan of the instructional art that comes with one of those, or taking a picture if I ever get one.

Don't all kill me at once, but there was a time that I didn't know much about Macross being different from Robotech, and I made the massive mistake of buying a 1/48 (I think) VF-1 made by Toynami. If you could see older versions of my model you would see that I referenced that toy ALOT when making the model so things would work.

I would love to get a Yamato VF-1, but first I need to wait for this new one with the uni-swing bar that tucks behind the nose (That is so cool!) because the current mode looks like it won't last a week. Its not that I am 3 years old and like to try and make them fly, but I'll bet ANYTHING that the day I get it, even if I put it up on my shelf above my computer, its only a mater of time before a drunk ass fellow soldier will stumble across it and proceed to break it on accident. Then he would say "Oh poo dude, sorry" and "I'll buy a new one, how much was it?" "Oh $150" "WTF? For that? I cant afford that" (I think me and the first sgt are the only ones who are not broke in my company)

Anyway, the biggest problem at hand right now is the flaps! Is there a unified design I can follow or does the VF-1's design specify? Going back through my original file I put together making the original model, I came across that awesome image of the VF-1 in Guardian, where you can see into it and see all the parts. It shows me somewhat of what the flaps are doing but I'd like to see it from the top. I know there is one of it in fighter mode, but I don't have it. I also came across this:

Its obviously from a toy, so I'm thinking it may be more accurate, but I don't know what toy for sure. Its not a VF-1S but the only major difference is the head so... That image doesn't have a front view ether! Not cool.

[Jagull]

that's the decal guide for the Hasegawa plastic model kit

http://www.1999.co.jp/dbimages/user/hobby/...g/10015052t.jpg

also found in the Models -> Hasegawa section on the main page

for the front view

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/models...tructions-1.jpg

it's the 1J however

Edited November 1, 2006 by Jagull

[Aurel Tristen]

Awsome, I'll give them a try, hopfully the'll line up.

[Gammera]

You know it's funny I lost my valk in a hard drive crash a year ago and decided it was time to replace it. Good to hear Im not the only one!!

This is what I did. I took orthographic shots of my yami, and then shaped the hase instructions over the top of them to fix any perspective errors I might have gotten from imperfect shooting.

As for the flaps try Mants or what ever that website is for F-14 nuts. The VF-1 was based off the F-14 I bet you the flaps would be set up the same way.

[Aegis!]

Hi,

Guess I found this thread right on time for my own proyect.

I´m thinking of doing a model of the YF-19 using Google´s Sketchup (awesome software , very versatile and compatible with other tools).

I´m using the 1/60 Yamato CAD scans as reference. I wanted to know how do you start up modeling from lineart.

If anyone can give me some hints I´ll be forever grateful.

[Aurel Tristen]

Well, moving along now that the wings are taken care off (except the air breaks and hard points) I started working on the legs. I was able to achieve the reversible knee joint after a little tweaking, and I'm quite happy with it. Not allot of visible clipping going on, everything seems to collapse back onto its self realistically, but here is where I am RELAY stuck, the joint between the intake funnel its self and the leg segment containing the prop. Its the joint that is only used in guardian mode to get the legs further away from the body.

From some of the illustrations (specificity the one that shows how the legs get from the body to the nose cone) it looks almost like its some sort of sliding pivot hidden under that gun on one side, and an extruding plate on the other, but I just can't find a realistic way to make it fit, and keep the dexterity I want fir animation. Any ideas? (you can see its just a big open gap on my model right now)

[Aurel Tristen]

I moved on to the landing gear for the time being and rand into a BIG problem. I have had this before in 3D studio, but I always just gave up or worked around it. I have objects (like the hydraulics that I am trying to link correctly using the look at constraint) that deform as I rotate them! I have tried local and world rotation but they still deform as I rotate them in position, with or without the constraint! Any ideas? This is really frustrating me!

Edited November 6, 2006 by Nanashi

[Gammera]

Try deleting the history of the object, and freeze transformations on the object.

[Aurel Tristen]

Didn't know how to do ether of those, but I have discovered it rotates just fine until I link it to something. O_o I'm still just as confused as to how linking something could cause it to deform like that.

Well this is terribly interesting! It seems I have discovered a type of mechanical linkage that 3D studio max cannot support.

Edit:

All I am trying to do is have something that pulls the landing gear in. Through experimentation I have discovered that the hydraulic that is shown on the toy is impossible. It cannot be both long enough to lower the gear straight down, and yet short enough to pull it level inside the landing gear bay, so instead I made a new system where a horizontal hydraulic pushes on an arm bar that connects to the gear column. I guess its impossible to link this up in 3D studio though because the second I link it all up, one of the parts exploads into a deformed skewed version of its former self (normally the arm bar). I have set it up with primitives, each part as a block, and it worked, but as soon as I apply the same mechanics to actual objects 3D studio as a stupid attack, and defies all logic.

Initially I thought it was the linking that did it, but because of the successful experiment with the primitives I have found that isn't true. Then I started thinking it was caused by moving the pivot points of the objects, so I built the whole thing without moving any of them, and as soon as the whole thing was linked together, with the arm bar using a look at constraint, pointed at a cylinder that used a track constraint (running it on a rail instead of a hydraulic this time) the arm bar exploded.

I am totaly at a loss here. I haven't the slightest idea what is wrong or why such a simple mechanical system is impossible.

Edited November 6, 2006 by Nanashi

[Aurel Tristen]

Oh wow, no I'm really screwed. I kept working around the problem doing other things here and there until some how, I triggerd some awesome feature in 3D max I have never heard of, seen, read about, and could never find any use for, that makes my transform gizmo invisible, even though 'show transform gizmo' is checked under View, so now I cant work on anything anymore. Holy god, somebody bail me out here!

*Goes back to pressing random keys*

Edit: X! Holy crap I swear I pressed that but, I guess X is the magical key. Yay! One problem fixed, on to the next! Wait, no still same problem, I cant link more than 3 things together or everything deforms when rotated.

Edited November 7, 2006 by Nanashi

[Aurel Tristen]

Jumping around a lot on this one. I started geting into detail with the cockpit. This image is a render with no lighting (took about 3 seconds). I'm baking the lighting into the textures so it will look good if I put this baby into Orbiter or flight simulator some day

I used Rodavan's fine render as a reference, and pulled the center screen element out as a stand in for now. The final version will use real time MFDs from Orbiter or Flight sim. You might also notice the HUD has glass plates. I decided to add that seeing as how most flight simulators won't allow me to project the HUD onto the canopy its self.

[Steve68]

Here is a shot of the 1/48 Club-M Valk with all flaps, slats, and spoilers deployed.

Steve

[attachmentid=37921]

[Aurel Tristen]

Here is a shot of the 1/48 Club-M Valk with all flaps, slats, and spoilers deployed.

Steve

[attachmentid=37921]

Thank you, just what I was looking for! Looks like I might have to re-build my wing though

[Zinjo]

Jumping around a lot on this one. I started geting into detail with the cockpit. This image is a render with no lighting (took about 3 seconds). I'm baking the lighting into the textures so it will look good if I put this baby into Orbiter or flight simulator some day

I used Rodavan's fine render as a reference, and pulled the center screen element out as a stand in for now. The final version will use real time MFDs from Orbiter or Flight sim. You might also notice the HUD has glass plates. I decided to add that seeing as how most flight simulators won't allow me to project the HUD onto the canopy its self.

Actually if you are going with the DYRL control set in the cockpit, there are no HUD plates on the console. The HUD info is displayed directly on the canopy.

Georgous work though!

Edited November 12, 2006 by Zinjo

[Aurel Tristen]

Actually if you are going with the DYRL control set in the cockpit, there are no HUD plates on the console. The HUD info is displayed directly on the canopy.

Georgous work though!

You might also notice the HUD has glass plates. I decided to add that seeing as how most flight simulators won't allow me to project the HUD onto the canopy its self.

I know, thats why I said that. I added the glass plates because making HUD info appear on the canopy would be impossible in Orbiter and Flight Simulator.

I tried to put it in orbiter yesterday, but it didn't work (not that big of a surprise). The camera was focused on the runway, witch had nothing on it. I opened the msh file with a msh editing program I just got, and the model is there, although it has exploded for some reason. It seems that moving origins is to blame. I wish someone would have perfected this when the feature was made because it is glitch as hell! Every time I do anything with origins, something explodes, breaks, changes shape, or disappears all together.

[Aurel Tristen]

YAY! I had CQ yesterday (24 hour duty) and I took my laptop. I worked from 9 AM to 12 AM, 15 hours STRAIGHT on this model to get it skinned. I had to make some changes to the design in order to get it to do what I want and I know the Macross fans here will be more critical of it than anyone, but the opinion of one fan here is worth that of 10 avrage passers by elsewhere.

The biggest thing that may stand out in this image is the cockpit. I was messing with moving the seats back into the nose for Battroid, and the only way the pilots seat had enough room to clear the navigators console is if they are spaced like they are. Even then, I had to hinge the navigators console to fit it past. I couldn't go any lower because of the landing gear well underneath the cockpit. After all that it turned out to be pointless because the Battroid neck sits right inside the Battroid cockpit. Makes me think, it would be too easy if they wanted to put the pilot in the head. It almost makes me think they may have planed to in the early days (as dumb as that would have been).

I also had two problems with the heat shield. I wanted to use it for re-entry, so it had to be long enough to deploy in fighter mode, and even if it wasn't longer, there was NO WAY it would fit under the chest plate, so I created a telescoping version that collapses in on its self (like the armor on batman's car in one of the movies, can't remember which).

Now I come to my greatest obstacle. I knew it was coming, and yet I chose to ignore it, saving it for last. The ARMS! They physically WILL NOT FIT in between the legs!! Its impossible without them shrinking, or changing shape (squishing in). This is what I get for modeling off of a fighter reference and not a toy. I figured it was too late to change blueprints (thats why I didn't move over to the ones that where posted here). My question to you folks is this.

Witch would you prefer to see?

A) Make the arms skinny, fit them in, and make them change size when transforming

B) Make the arms mechanically collapse into them selfs so they will fit realistically (But will look less like the original Valkyrie)

C) Move the engines outward so the arms fit normally (Jet will look ALOT less cool in fighter mode)

D) A little of C and A

Images!

Older one

[Rodavan]

very cool

[wongster]

starting a CG i see, don't leave me out

i'd give you the ortho's i used but mwf is being a homo and won't let me attatch =.=

I've been away from the forums for a long time, but if anyone wants to see the transformation animation of my valk <=== see avatar... which i never actually showed to you guys, gimme an e-mail

master.wongster@gmail.com

its a .swf file (flash)

hmm this is interesting, my thread is still alive LOL!

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...7462&st=100

it will also be made avail. later on my site, that i'm working on... featuring my valk of course

your stuff is looking good but, I would fix that nasty cockpit UV lol... are you aiming for a certain polycount?

Edited November 30, 2006 by wongster