How to make Decals???

[Jasonc]

OK, so the deal is that Anasazi, our good friend on this site is bowing out of the game of decals and stickers. We will surely miss his work, and we may never get that quality again, but in the meantime, I have been thinking about possibly picking up some of the requests that are still out there. Unfortunately, I am not too familiar with how to make decals. I bought some decal paper a long time ago, but I know it's more than just printing some pics up.

so, for those that make decals, is there anyone still making them? As for Anasazi, if you read this, in using illustrator, what file format do you create your decals in? is it .eps or something like that? It's gonna be painful redoing some of the decals only to fall way short of the quality we had before, but those are the brakes I guess.

So, if someone has anytime, or can provide info for decals about where we can get them, how we can make them, and everything in between, please help out. I will be making decals for 1/48s, 1/55s, and that's probably it. So, if anyone has sticker sheets they can send in, or anything else that can help me out, I will do what I can to start producing decals for those that need them. Prices and all that will come later, if I do need to start supplying my fellow MWers here, but until then, let's all unite and try to fix our little predicament.

[promethuem5]

I would send a PM directly to Devin...he might not be making anymore, but he has said that he's more than willing to help others out on their own printing endeavors...

[mister_e]

I would send a PM directly to Devin...he might not be making anymore, but he has said that he's more than willing to help others out on their own printing endeavors...

In his "I'm shutting down the decal and sticker business" thread he specifically asked that if someone wanted advice/suggestions that they should do so in a new thread so others may also benefit from his comments. So, Jasonc is doing exactly what Devin asked him to do.

[Jasonc]

I'm posting it up for 2 main reasons...1)Because at the decal master's request, he wanted someone who was interested to post so that if he responds, everyone can benefit, and 2)There may be others who already make decals/stickers or others who may be able to help in this endeavor to get more made for our customs. As I am gonna be working on a custom very shortly, it would be very bad to not have decals anymore. And without Devin selling the masters to anyone, we all need to make a combined effort in making new ones that are at least in the ballpark of quality.

Customizing and modding for Valks seems to be on the rise. It'd be a shame if all of us can't come up with a solutions to this predicament.

[Penguin]

The key thing here is how to make white decals. I've made my own decals now and then... anyone with an inkjet printer can make clear decals. The thing that the Alps printers gave us was opaque white ink (correct me if I'm wrong here, anyone). From what Devin was saying, support for these printers is going the way of the proverbial dodo, so not only do we need someone to take up the game from a talent perspective, but also there needs to be a new technical solution.

[Fly4victory]

I have posted the scans I made of the Hasegawa F-14 and Low Vis decals in the model discussion.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=20528

Some of Hasegawa decals are high res scans in model section.

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/models...wa/hasegawa.htm

I am happy to scan what I have, Hasegawa and Yamato, so that model and toy sections have scans that people can download and print.

Graham is busy so if another Mod wants to grab this and run, I am happy to hand off the scans.

[Jasonc]

I have posted the scans I made of the Hasegawa F-14 and Low Vis decals in the model discussion.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=20528

Some of Hasegawa decals are high res scans in model section.

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/models...wa/hasegawa.htm

I am happy to scan what I have, Hasegawa and Yamato, so that model and toy sections have scans that people can download and print.

Graham is busy so if another Mod wants to grab this and run, I am happy to hand off the scans.

Thanks for your help. This definitely helps. I am gathering all my decals I have so that I can make high res scans of them, but they are all for the model kits. I may need to enlarge them, and shape a few of them to fit the 1/55s and 1/48s, but that shouldn't be hard, just extra tedious work.

As for the White color issue, there are decal sheets that have a white backing to fix that problem. The only thing to do is to create them, and put a small black border around the white decals for cutting purposes.

This should fix the white decal problem. I will be experimenting soon, but definitely would like some advice from the pros as to materials needed other than printer and decal paper. Like, what type of decal paper is good, what sealant, and basically, the whole process of getting that done.

[big F]

I too would be interested in any information. I am looking at alternatives to the Alps Printers including one that can print white and metalics. More news when I have it.

On the flipside does anyone have good quaility scans or can scan some jetfire decals?

[Jasonc]

I may end up doing some of the old decals, and Fit them on the 1/55s, 1/48s, etc. Right now, I have sets for the Elintseeker, Ostrich, Max DYRL, and the 1D. Those are for the 1/55 scale. The sets I have for 1/48 are just the 1S and the Max. For Hasegawa, I have Most of those, and will create some high res scans of those and clean them up. Other than that, I'm looking for more sticker sets, and other decal sets for use on a certain scale, and will edit them to fit other scales. Again, if anyone can help in the "making the decal process", much appreciation.

[Fly4victory]

Hasegawa (1/72)

VF-0A/S Battroid

VF-0A/S Fighter w/Ghost

VF-0A Fighter

VF-0D

VF-0B

VF-0S Reactive Armor

F-14

VF-1A/J/S

VF-1D

VF-1A Angel Bird

VF-1 Weapons Kit

VF-1S Strike Battroid

VF-1S Minmay Guard

VF-22S

Yamato

VF-0S

VF-0A

VB-6 Monster

VF-1A Low Vis

VF-1A Low Vis II

VF-1A CF

VF-1A Angel Bird

VF-1A Hikaru

VF-1J Hikaru

VF-1S Hikaru

VF-1A Max

VF-1J Max

VF-1J Miria

VF-1A Kakizaki

VF-1J Stealth

VF-1S Roy

GBP 1 Armor

Super Strike Armor

Just tell me the ones you want scanned and the DPI.

Shrinking the 1/48 to 1/55 would be easier than blowing up the 1/72.

[promethuem5]

In his "I'm shutting down the decal and sticker business" thread he specifically asked that if someone wanted advice/suggestions that they should do so in a new thread so others may also benefit from his comments. So, Jasonc is doing exactly what Devin asked him to do.

Soooooo apparently I can't read...chill out dude.

[mister_e]

Soooooo apparently I can't read...chill out dude.

Oh, I'm quite chill

[Rodavan]

Found this when searching around for an alternative to ALPS

http://www.pulsar.gs/index.html -- Decalpro

Anybody tried this before ?

[Fly4victory]

Found this when searching around for an alternative to ALPS

http://www.pulsar.gs/index.html -- Decalpro

Anybody tried this before ?

Thats a great find.

I wonder if we would need to do a white decal and then put a color over it like some of the early hasegawa water transfers.

For the chemists out there, how would this process react to future clear coating or tamyia X21?

[Penguin]

As for the White color issue, there are decal sheets that have a white backing to fix that problem. The only thing to do is to create them, and put a small black border around the white decals for cutting purposes.

Well, that's a possible solution, but not an easy one. White backing decal paper is fine for when you have simple shapes to cut out, like a "Warning" label on a white background, but it will be an incredible pain for anything complex, and you aren't able to produce a decal that has a combination of white and clear. Think about the Minmay Guard decals and the white skirt Minmay has on in the decals. To reproduce that image using white and clear backing decal paper alone you'd have to do some really intricate cutting. Even a white "U.N. Spacy" to go on a dark-coloured VF would be a lot of work.

[Jasonc]

Well, that's a possible solution, but not an easy one. White backing decal paper is fine for when you have simple shapes to cut out, like a "Warning" label on a white background, but it will be an incredible pain for anything complex, and you aren't able to produce a decal that has a combination of white and clear. Think about the Minmay Guard decals and the white skirt Minmay has on in the decals. To reproduce that image using white and clear backing decal paper alone you'd have to do some really intricate cutting. Even a white "U.N. Spacy" to go on a dark-coloured VF would be a lot of work.

yes, I think that process for those decals would be very difficult. Of course, you could make them non transparent, but a very difficult task ahead. Now, in regards to the site

Found this when searching around for an alternative to ALPS

http://www.pulsar.gs/index.html -- Decalpro

Anybody tried this before ?

This looks promising. I may look into this and buy a set of it.

I'd really like to know what decal paper Devin used, and what sealer material he used. I mean, those decals were better than the Hasegawa decals.

[Fly4victory]

I know that it is not the Super Cal system.

On Devin's the clear coating is an additional protection that is not required for the laser jet.

I just bought the inkjet Super Cal system and asked about the spray that is provided. Devin said it was real heavy and not recommended or required on his sheets.

I have also read on starship modeler that Krylon Crystal Clear Acrylic can be used to seal decals.

Just based on research Laser is the way to go. I will let you know what happens when I test the ink jet.

yes, I think that process for those decals would be very difficult. Of course, you could make them non transparent, but a very difficult task ahead. Now, in regards to the site

This looks promising. I may look into this and buy a set of it.

I'd really like to know what decal paper Devin used, and what sealer material he used. I mean, those decals were better than the Hasegawa decals.

[big F]

I know that it is not the Super Cal system.

On Devin's the clear coating is an additional protection that is not required for the laser jet.

I just bought the inkjet Super Cal system and asked about the spray that is provided. Devin said it was real heavy and not recommended or required on his sheets.

I have also read on starship modeler that Krylon Crystal Clear Acrylic can be used to seal decals.

Just based on research Laser is the way to go. I will let you know what happens when I test the ink jet.

Other web sites are saying that you can use Halfords (a U.K car accessory shop like Autobacs) clear laquer car spray. It too is acrylic based so I asume that any acrylic based clear coat could work.

I have ordered some sample decal sheets from a supplier of mine to try out in my new works laser printer.

If anyone has a good scan of ANY 1/55 stickers that they could post or pm me, I would be greatfull. I am working on my own 1/55 decals but they are some time off completion yet. If the samples work out ok I will look at getting some in bulk and ordering my own printer to go with them.

[Anasazi37]

Wow, quite the turnout in this thread.

I'll check in and offer my *cough* sage advice as often as possible. FYI, I won't ignore PMs about decal making, it's just easier for me to answer a question once to a broad audience than to answer it multiple times to individual MW members.

- That dry transfer system could work, but I worry about three things. First, the spray adhesive. I don't know how it will interact with paints and clearcoats. That goes for both enamel and acrylic. Second, I would worry about how small a decal you can make. Sure, you could print something really small, but you might have to spray a large part of your toy/custom/model in order to apply it. Could do more harm than good. Third, making opaque color decals. You might have to print the white first, then attempt to print color on top of it. You'll run into registration issues (how well the color markings match up to the white underneath).

- Inkjet printing. Avoid it if you can. Sure, the designs *look* fantastic, but they are also not waterproof. Sure, you could spray them with Krylon Crystal Clear, but I never managed to get it to work well for me. I won't even tell you how much money I spent on supplies before I learned that lesson. Krylon goes on thick and will crack if you don't use the decals within a few days. There are brush-on coating alternatives like Microscale's Liquid Decal Film, but your inkjet decals have to be COMPLETELY dry before you use it. Otherwise, you'll end up spreading the ink all over the decal paper because the coating solution is alcohol-based. I lived in a very dry place and let the designs dry for days, and I *still* had problems with the ink running.

- Laserjet printing. Much better than it used to be, but the color designs are still transparent. Black is opaque, which is at least something. One Okidata laser printer can use an opaque white cartidge in place of the black, but the name escapes me. Multiple passes are not possible, so you're still stuck with transparent colors and solid white decals. You *could* make separate white "backing" versions of the color decals, apply those, then apply the transparent color ones on top of them, but that seems like a ton of work for a mediocre result at best (plus the decals would be thick at that point).

- Programs I use. I did the vast majority of my sets in Illustrator and I keep the masters in .AI format. Some sets were done in Photoshop because I needed to use scanned images but also needed the ability to work with multiple layers. For the brave who want to venture into the mechanics of *how* to design decals, please feel free to ask questions. I'll do what I can, but some topics are pretty complex.

- Decal Paper. I've tried a bunch of different decal paper suppliers. For laser, I'd use Tango Papa Decals. Avoid Bel Decal like the plague. I don't care how cheap they are or how professional their site looks. You get what you pay for. Sometimes whole shipments I received were useless and their customer service is nonexistent. NEVER EVER buy from them. For inkjet, try Texas Craft (Hemmi Papilio Supplies).

-Alternatives. Sometimes Microscale can squeeze in a one-off set of decals when they are printing silkscreened sets in larger numbers. You can always try contacting them to see what's possible.

I'll respond to further questions as I have time. I hope this is useful info.

Edited November 2, 2006 by Anasazi37

[Mechamaniac]

Pinnage...

[Jasonc]

All that is a great help Devin, and will definitely keep all that in mind. I have in my possession a HP Laserjet 2840. I may have to experiment with the decalpro system and see how the white works over the black ink. As for the minmay guard leg pic of her in the white dress, that's gonna be a tricky thing to do. The only thing I can think of without dealing in two layers, or double running the paper, is to use the white backing decal paper. Don't know what results I'll get, but that is the only fix for that. I may need to photoshop the hell out of it to get it working, but it's worth a try. I think we can get it to work somehow. Keep your fingers crossed, and lets all keep our minds on this thread. I think we can pull out some great solutions here.

[Razor x]

Pinnage...

somebody pin the words of the master please!!!

[big F]

I think I have the Okidata printer you speak of at work. I`ll check it out and report back. Im gonna be feeding it some test runs soon anyhow.

[Fly4victory]

Test print of Low Vis Decal Sheet for VF-0A created in MS Paint based on Hasegawa 1/72 VF-1A scan using Super Cal inkjet in a Canon S520 color ink jet. Has not been sealed with the acrylic spray yet.

Edit: Paper test on top, waterslide decals on bottom of photo.

Edited November 5, 2006 by Fly4victory

[big F]

Test print of Low Vis Decal Sheet for VF-0A created in MS Paint based on Hasegawa 1/72 VF-1A scan using Super Cal inkjet in a Canon S520 color ink jet. Has not been sealed with the acrylic spray yet.

Edit: Paper test on top, waterslide decals on bottom of photo.

Looks pridy good.

[promethuem5]

Fly4Victory, what did you use to print those?

[Fly4victory]

Promethuem5,

I used a Canon Bubblejet S520 printer and the SuperCal Inkjet Aerosol kit.

The decals have been drying overnight and I will seal with the can of spray that was provided with the kit.

Seems that sealing inkjet decals is the hard part.

I will spray the sheet prior to cutting and if that fails then try cutting and sealing.

Cutting the decals after sealing could create a possible vector for the water to distroy the printing.

I will also have the decals just sit to determine the shelf life. It is possible the seal will crack over time.

Edit: The areas that appear white are actually a very light blue gray. The Canon S520 can not print white.

Scott

"Fly4V"

Edited November 6, 2006 by Fly4victory

[promethuem5]

Sounds awesome.... I guess the question will be how well the light grey holds up on a colored surface.... we could be onto something here tho.

[big F]

Well I Got my sample sheets today and as luck would have it my order from TwinMoons also turned up with my Decals made by Devin. his work is really good. From the look and feel of the paper I may have stumbled onto the same stuff he used. Now all I need is something to print.

So I ask you all Anyone got some 1/55 decal stickers they could scan for me. Doesnt matter which one Jetfire Joons reissue Taka whatever. I just havent got any myself and time is short so I cant custom make any for a few weeks.

[Jasonc]

I started on redoing most of the decals I seen from Hasegawa, the regular sets, the option sets, and ones that would be needed for the 1/55s in photoshop, trying to make them really hi res for the laser jet I have. I still have yet to try the white backing paper, but I probably will do two pages of decals when ready,,, decals that require no white, and decals that do. the ones that do will all be on white paper, with a thin black line around white text for ease of cutting. But that is still a ways to go. So far, the LaserJet is looking to be a solid clear printer.

[Jasonc]

Oh, I also forgot to ask, how water resistant is that Epson ink? That may be a good selling point in this forum, dealing in waterslide decals.

[Anasazi37]

The sets TMP sells use paper from my old supplier (Texascraft, HPS, Hemmi Papilio Supplies--all the same). The regular variety is called PAS/2 (Papilio Aqua Slide/2). The better stuff is PAS/N (thinner), but they don't make a lot of it so it's usually backordered and takes a few weeks to show up. Both are pretty good for laser/alps, but it's hard to see white printing on a white background. Not that it's an issue right now, but if you do find another white printing method, you might want to look into paper with a blue backing. Tangopapadecals.com has good blue-backed laser/alps paper available, but there might be a few others out there as well.

Well I Got my sample sheets today and as luck would have it my order from TwinMoons also turned up with my Decals made by Devin. his work is really good. From the look and feel of the paper I may have stumbled onto the same stuff he used. Now all I need is something to print.

So I ask you all Anyone got some 1/55 decal stickers they could scan for me. Doesnt matter which one Jetfire Joons reissue Taka whatever. I just havent got any myself and time is short so I cant custom make any for a few weeks.

[Anasazi37]

Cutting the decals after sealing could create a possible vector for the water to distroy the printing.

I will also have the decals just sit to determine the shelf life. It is possible the seal will crack over time.

You just hit the two biggest problems with inkjet right on the head. You have to break the protective barrier when you cut the decal prior to application, which can sometimes lead to ink running unless the barrier is still a little soft. In that case, the act of cutting can sometimes create a better seal because you're pressing the seal into the paper as you cut. Balancing shelf life and usability for spray coated decals is very hard. If you spray light to avoid cracking, water can get in. If you spray thicker to prevent water getting in, the seal can crack. And then there are the setting solution issues. Coated inkjet decals don't generally conform well to curved or complex surfaces, but if you use a setting solution, it can sometimes dissolve the coating.

For the brave, you can spray on Microscale's Liquid Decal Film using a VERY clean airbrush. It cleans up easy with alcohol or Windex, so no worries there. It's the best approach I found for long shelf life and a thin, flexible, durable protective coating. I ended up hand-coating all of my ALPS-printed sets (personal preference), but an airbrush works very well for inkjet since you can avoid potential ink smears.

[Jasonc]

For the brave, you can spray on Microscale's Liquid Decal Film using a VERY clean airbrush. It cleans up easy with alcohol or Windex, so no worries there. It's the best approach I found for long shelf life and a thin, flexible, durable protective coating.

This is a bad question I know, but, do you spray it on the decals, or on the parts? And how much do you spray to soften the decals?

[Anasazi37]

You spray it onto the decals once you print them, but before you cut and apply them. The coating is waterproof and stands up well to most setting solutions. I generally spray the entire sheet of decal paper, straight out of the printer.

This is a bad question I know, but, do you spray it on the decals, or on the parts? And how much do you spray to soften the decals?