Asuka II Carrier Battle Group

[newca]

I know it's an old topic, but a Chinese modeler is working on his 1/700 ASUKA II, also confused by the length of it, there are some pics you may interested :

http://www.sonicmodel.com/topicdisplay.asp...TopicID=1801845

[op4_delta]

I know I had abandoned this thread, but is never late to resume working on the things you love, so if anyone has more data about the Asuka please send it in

The scale model is great, thanks newca, do you know if it was finished?

[sketchley]

I have no new information, but I'm glad that the thread is being revived. It's been an interesting discussion so far.

[op4_delta]

Thanks mate. I think the next step to take with my models would be to find someone who can photoshop better than me to help me with textures and possibly search for a good game engine to give the ships a try.

[op4_delta]

Some time ago newca posted a link about a chinese modeller wanting to make a scale model of the asuka, following the link to the chinese forum I found this picture of what appears to be the original CG model.

For some reason the official macros zero site has an error in the asuka entry, wich it tries to load eternally with no pictures displayed, the site had that problem long before I started my research on the asuka, so I have never seen the official renders of the ship, nonetheless I managed to use the pic in the chinese forum to correct the stern of my own asuka. and this are the results.

If someone has the pics in hi-res please share them with me

I still need to correct the possition of the starboard-aft phalanx and the protruding port-aft sensors, also to find out the fire control radar of the seasparrow launcher.

Thanks

[MechTech]

I'm usually barried in the modeling section and just asaw this. This is a cool thread. Great work on the CGI modeling. It'd almost be fun to modify a kit and make it look like these! It's late, but I think the reactors look like just like the anti-grav units on the SDF-1. - MT

[DestroidDefender]

It's late, but I think the reactors look like just like the anti-grav units on the SDF-1. - MT

I wasn't going to re-start the reactor debate but let me throw this out. Maybe the overtech reactors were copied and installed merely as power sources without realizing there potential as anti-gravity generators. Their anti-gravity properties were only manifested when Sara or the Aiphos stimulated them.

Or maybe they just happen to look like the AG on the Macross.

[Lonewolf]

It's probably just an eye-candy.

[op4_delta]

I'm usually barried in the modeling section and just asaw this. This is a cool thread. Great work on the CGI modeling. It'd almost be fun to modify a kit and make it look like these! It's late, but I think the reactors look like just like the anti-grav units on the SDF-1. - MT

If you mean a scale model kit I would suggest to use a nimitz hull, but the diferences in placement of the elevators would require to build a whole new flightdeck. It would also be interesing to see the Asuka model being built by the chinese modeler newca mentioned some time ago, too bad I dont know chinese.

Is almost surreal how the OT generators debate almost completely replaced the whole Asuka CVBG theme, is not that I am complaining, since it gave life to this thread, but I would like some help on the carrier´s exterior, specially since the official macross zero site seems to be without a webmaster to repair the link on the Asuka´s description.

Please keep the comments coming.

Edited May 31, 2007 by op4_delta

[HangPC2]

CVN-99 Asuka II (ASCA) Destroy ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0P5e3Qt2lM

[azrael]

CVN-99 Asuka II (ASCA) Destroy ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0P5e3Qt2lM

That's Prometheus.

[Macross GURU]

As requested, this is a WIP pic of the Asuka´s island. The model is not intended for CG movies, is around 30,000 polys so most modern games can load it

I would appreciate if someone tells me what are the antennas and stuff it has.

Looks to me like several Ultra High Frequency (UHF) radio antenna, Aegis radar, and a large OT radar array.

Edit:

Additionally I think the engines of the carrier are human built with pieces of OT which may also double as gravity generators, perhaps the AFOS activated the gravity generating capability of the generator. I gather the Asuka has superior maneuvering by throwing the mass of the vessel around using a form of mass effect. I recently read the tech from the game 'Mass Effect' which made me think of OverTechnology and how anti-grav drives could be used for maneuvering by allowing the ship to "fall" into the desired direction of travel.

Edited February 23, 2009 by Macross GURU

[SchizophrenicMC]

Looks to me like several Ultra High Frequency (UHF) radio antenna, Aegis radar, and a large OT radar array.

Edit:

Additionally I think the engines of the carrier are human built with pieces of OT which may also double as gravity generators, perhaps the AFOS activated the gravity generating capability of the generator. I gather the Asuka has superior maneuvering by throwing the mass of the vessel around using a form of mass effect. I recently read the tech from the game 'Mass Effect' which made me think of OverTechnology and how anti-grav drives could be used for maneuvering by allowing the ship to "fall" into the desired direction of travel.

Gawd... So much necromancy these days.

I always thought a chunk of AFOS was what lifted the Asuka group. Then again, last time I watched it, I was focused more on the mecha porn that anything else, and it's been a few years...

Did they say something about a gravity generator?...

[Macross GURU]

Gawd... So much necromancy these days.

I always thought a chunk of AFOS was what lifted the Asuka group. Then again, last time I watched it, I was focused more on the mecha porn that anything else, and it's been a few years...

Did they say something about a gravity generator?...

Yeh it was an old subject that I somehow ended up casting raise undead. Bugger, a posting zombie... is there a cleric in the forum?

[David Hingtgen]

Those could almost be CIWS too, surrounding the upper part.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Those could almost be CIWS too, surrounding the upper part.

I wouldn't be surprised...

[The Saint]

I would, CIWS are typically mounted a little further away from all the forest of sensor and comm bits. At their location, 2 are shooting over the deck, discarding sabots would rain down and create a FOD nightmare. Also, all 4 would end up look "down" on sea-skimming missiles as they close, bringing sea clutter into view and messing up the radar picture.

[SchizophrenicMC]

I would, CIWS are typically mounted a little further away from all the forest of sensor and comm bits. At their location, 2 are shooting over the deck, discarding sabots would rain down and create a FOD nightmare. Also, all 4 would end up look "down" on sea-skimming missiles as they close, bringing sea clutter into view and messing up the radar picture.

Oh, yeah, Saint. Deny the guy whose entire male line's in the Navy on that one.

Here's the thing: the bridge on the Asuka-II has a great vantage for CIWS mounting. Further, it's in the blindspot of the anti-missile fire capable of being put out by the Cheyennes. It's just blockin' it. See how big a blindspot that is? Well, it's also a GREAT place to fire missiles! Huge? Check. Command Center? Check!

So, you mount your CIWS guns where you said, but also mount them along the island.

Trust me, a rain of sabots and shells (Wait... Sabots? I'm pretty sure CIWS guns don't fire sabot rounds.) will not cloud the radar. Or the lidar. Or any other sensory apparatus that thing uses.

[anime52k8]

Oh, yeah, Saint. Deny the guy whose entire male line's in the Navy on that one.

Here's the thing: the bridge on the Asuka-II has a great vantage for CIWS mounting. Further, it's in the blindspot of the anti-missile fire capable of being put out by the Cheyennes. It's just blockin' it. See how big a blindspot that is? Well, it's also a GREAT place to fire missiles! Huge? Check. Command Center? Check!

So, you mount your CIWS guns where you said, but also mount them along the island.

Trust me, a rain of sabots and shells (Wait... Sabots? I'm pretty sure CIWS guns don't fire sabot rounds.) will not cloud the radar. Or the lidar. Or any other sensory apparatus that thing uses.

if they're using Mk 15 Phalanx, then they're using sabot rounds.

Edited February 24, 2009 by anime52k8

[edwin3060]

Oh, yeah, Saint. Deny the guy whose entire male line's in the Navy on that one.

Here's the thing: the bridge on the Asuka-II has a great vantage for CIWS mounting. Further, it's in the blindspot of the anti-missile fire capable of being put out by the Cheyennes. It's just blockin' it. See how big a blindspot that is? Well, it's also a GREAT place to fire missiles! Huge? Check. Command Center? Check!

So, you mount your CIWS guns where you said, but also mount them along the island.

Trust me, a rain of sabots and shells (Wait... Sabots? I'm pretty sure CIWS guns don't fire sabot rounds.) will not cloud the radar. Or the lidar. Or any other sensory apparatus that thing uses.

I think The Saint's concern is more for FOD on the flight deck than a notion that sabots and shells will cloud the radar.

[hobbes221]

I think The Saint's concern is more for FOD on the flight deck than a notion that sabots and shells will cloud the radar.

I'm with you guys on the FOD, looking up some stuff on the Mk 15 shows this.

The unique closed-loop fire control system that tracks both the incoming target and the stream of outgoing projectiles (by monitoring their incoming noise signature) gives CIWS the capability to correct its aim to hit fast-moving targets.

So it looks to have no problems with the rounds messing with the radar.

[anime52k8]

I'm with you guys on the FOD, looking up some stuff on the Mk 15 shows this.

So it looks to have no problems with the rounds messing with the radar.

I have no idea why anyone would think that the wast products of a Mk 15 firing would have any effect on radar or other sensors.

with the FOD thing though, I don't see it necessarily being a problem. the Mk 15's feed system cycles all spent shells and unfired cartridges back into the ammunition drum so there's no spent shells falling around anywhere. as for the sabots themselves I really don't know but it's fully possible that they'd have enough forward momentum to carry themselves all the way past the deck and land in the water.

(does anyone know how far the sabots form 20mm rounds travel once fired?)

[hobbes221]

You know I have been wondering the same thing about the sabots for awhile now, I read some time ago that the AV-8B's 25mm can be loaded with sabot rounds and could get around how it dose not eat the things. If anyone knows I'm all ears. (I mean it has to work because they do it, right?)

And as for making it past the deck, the problem I see would be if it was shooting towards the bow and the ship was moving at a good speed. With the head wind it might cause some to fall to the deck. That and the fact that shooting from the island out past the bow area is a fair amount of distance.

Also by mounting the guns high up you add a greater rate of angle change to the problem of shooting a sea-skimmer as the guns would have to keep lowering their aim as the missiles get closer (also what The Saint said about having the radars looking into sea). Mounted just under the deck would seem to give the best line of sight to the target with the lowest amount of movement relative to the line of travel. Having guns mounted in both places might mean that the high gun are for targets other than sea-skimmers as well as giving a more complete coverage of the ship.

[The Saint]

Oh, yeah, Saint. Deny the guy whose entire male line's in the Navy on that one.

Are you in the navy? Are any of your male line a Phalanix system tech? Or a naval weapons architect? Most people in the armed forces don't know a lot about military affairs beyond their responsibilities.

Sorry, but you don't get a free pass based on the credential of your family members.

Here's the thing: the bridge on the Asuka-II has a great vantage for CIWS mounting. Further, it's in the blindspot of the anti-missile fire capable of being put out by the Cheyennes. It's just blockin' it. See how big a blindspot that is? Well, it's also a GREAT place to fire missiles! Huge? Check. Command Center? Check!

There is more to mounting weapon systems then vantage. As I said, mounting CIWS that high, which carries its own FC radar on its mount, creates problems. The higher the CIWS, the lower it has to depress to track a missile as it closes. That means you'll get the radar pointing into the sea, and the sea clutter will severely mess up the radar return. There is a reason why real world CIWS are mounted on the side of the hull for CVs. Much better vantage against sea skimmers, the primary threat.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by a great place to fire missiles. I assume you mean that where you suggest they put CIWS would also be great for missile launchers. Not sure all the sensors and comms would appreciate the hot gases, and I'm pretty sure the lack of flat deck space up there would make reloading an interesting experience.

Finally, blindspots are a fact of life on any warship, but since they're ships, they can manoeuvre to unmask their batteries. And since apparently the Cheyennes can leave their nook and run around the deck, the Asuka doesn't really have any blind spot above the flight deck.

Trust me, a rain of sabots and shells (Wait... Sabots? I'm pretty sure CIWS guns don't fire sabot rounds.) will not cloud the radar. Or the lidar. Or any other sensory apparatus that thing uses.

I said FOD, Foreign Object Damage. Yes, CIWS fires penetrators, which uses a sabot to center inside the barrel. Those sabots are light weight, so they'll tend to decelerate pretty quickly once outside of the barrel. Mounting them on top of the island means a good chance of having a lot of them litter the flight deck.

[edwin3060]

Actually, given current technologies, why doesn't the Asuka just mount the RIM-116 (Rolling Airframe Missile)? It has been deployed since '92, so I'm sure SK knew about it when making Macross 0.

[The Saint]

Because a sky full of tracers is much more pleasant to look at.

[Letigre]

Actually, given current technologies, why doesn't the Asuka just mount the RIM-116 (Rolling Airframe Missile)? It has been deployed since '92, so I'm sure SK knew about it when making Macross 0.

Maybe because it's an AU as compared to reality. It's sort of like asking: shouldn't the U.N. Naval forces been using planes other than F-14's?

It is not as if SK just didn't know better, I'm sure he had reason to omit it.

[edwin3060]

Because a sky full of tracers is much more pleasant to look at.

We have a winner!

Still, the multiple smoke trails(animated) from RAM launches would have been pretty spectacular as well-- I remember the Cheyennes in Mac0 launching those massive missiles when the SV-51s were incoming.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Are you in the navy? Are any of your male line a Phalanix system tech? Or a naval weapons architect? Most people in the armed forces don't know a lot about military affairs beyond their responsibilities.

Grandfather was, indeed, a CIWS tech. That means he knows about it. Do you know how much you can learn from someone who spent his career in the service? And, on your other question, I am, in fact, not in the navy. I am going to be, though.

Sorry, but you don't get a free pass based on the credential of your family members.

There is more to mounting weapon systems then vantage. As I said, mounting CIWS that high, which carries its own FC radar on its mount, creates problems. The higher the CIWS, the lower it has to depress to track a missile as it closes. That means you'll get the radar pointing into the sea, and the sea clutter will severely mess up the radar return. There is a reason why real world CIWS are mounted on the side of the hull for CVs. Much better vantage against sea skimmers, the primary threat.

MOST of the threat is there. However, the air-to-surface threat is on the top, including the island. The island, which is enormous, might I add, is where all of the command structure lies. It's the head. Take out the head, the body stops attacking.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by a great place to fire missiles. I assume you mean that where you suggest they put CIWS would also be great for missile launchers. Not sure all the sensors and comms would appreciate the hot gases, and I'm pretty sure the lack of flat deck space up there would make reloading an interesting experience.

If you fire a missile at it, it takes out the head. If you take out the head, etcetera. Remember Nora's kill on the warship via a missile launched at the bridge?

How would hot gases interfere with comms and sensor equipment? Here's a little fun fact, there are sensors in the backs of Su-33 Flankers, mounted right between the exhaust nozzles. The temperature there can exceed 800 degrees fahrenheit. Heat doesn't affect comms equipment so much.

Finally, blindspots are a fact of life on any warship, but since they're ships, they can manoeuvre to unmask their batteries. And since apparently the Cheyennes can leave their nook and run around the deck, the Asuka doesn't really have any blind spot above the flight deck.

We try to eliminate those blind spots as possible. The Cheyennes CAN leave their silos, but it uses fuel and takes up space on the deck. Also, it's not instantaneous enough for such puposes.

I said FOD, Foreign Object Damage. Yes, CIWS fires penetrators, which uses a sabot to center inside the barrel. Those sabots are light weight, so they'll tend to decelerate pretty quickly once outside of the barrel. Mounting them on top of the island means a good chance of having a lot of them litter the flight deck.

My bad. Read it as FOV, as in Field of View. I thought you meant the sabots blocking sensor view as they fall in mass quantities. Sabots are heavy enough to carry off a ways under their own momentum. Sometimes, in a headwind, they'll blow back a ways, but even then, it's not enough to damage the deck, and the same headwind tends to push them off the deck.

Saint, please, don't be a dick. This is the second time you've done this. You wouldn't, perchance, know a certain xXShinzoXx on another board, would you?

There is no need. Just point out what you think is wrong. Suggest it. Not blow it in someone's face. All it does is start a flame war.

Moving on, there are few things cooler than seeing the sky light up with burning magnesium. Be it tracer or fireworks.

[hobbes221]

but even then, it's not enough to damage the deck, and the same headwind tends to push them off the deck.

When we are taking about FOD we don't mean that the sabot are going to damage the deck, but will be sucked into the intakes of any aircraft with the engines running.

[anime52k8]

I'm Just going to go ahead and render this whole discussion moot right now:

they are definitely NOT CWIS. I was flipping through my Hidetaka Tenjin Valkyries art book which has some production stills from Mac0 in it.

they have this small shot of the Asuka II's bridge up close:

you can clearly see that their IS a CWIS mounted on the starboard side of the island about half way up. it's clearly different (smaller, different details, actually has a gun) from the white pill shaped things on top of the island.

it looks like they have the same objects on this ship, which I think is the carrier that shin lauches from in the begining, that's supposed to be a kitty hawk class.

and you can kind of see similar looking structures on the Real Kitty Hawk. I think they're supposed to be radars.

[hobbes221]

Thanks for the pics, that always helps. That CIWS on the starboard side of the island is fine by me as it does not overlook the flight deck.

[SchizophrenicMC]

When we are taking about FOD we don't mean that the sabot are going to damage the deck, but will be sucked into the intakes of any aircraft with the engines running.

How do you figure a sabot's gonna fly into an aircraft engine with all those variables (and variable fighters ) in place?

[hobbes221]

How do you figure a sabot's gonna fly into an aircraft engine with all those variables (and variable fighters ) in place?

You're talking about a gun that fire 3,000 to 4,000 rounds a minute over a deck full of aircraft that act a lot like vacuum cleaners, the area of danger in front of an intake is a fair amount of space, more so when they throttle up. If even a few dozen sabot are laying around in the wrong places your out an engine or two, it fouls up the operations on the deck, the flight is down a bird and a replacement has to be used. FOD walks are a huge part of life on the flight deck and in aviation (turbine powered at least, known some prop guys who were a little more 'lax') in general for a reason, trust me I know as I have done far too many in the Arizona summers myself.

Edited February 25, 2009 by hobbes221

[The Saint]

I'm Just going to go ahead and render this whole discussion moot right now:

Thank you.

Should've pointed this out earlier.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/sys...land-Image1.gif

Comm antennas.