The Professional Photography and Photoshop Thread

Vegas · May 5, 2009

my flash kit has finally arrived but i wont have time to play with it this week

Dante74 · May 5, 2009

my flash kit has finally arrived but i wont have time to play with it this week

Ooh nice! Why did you choose the 580 over the 430 if you don't mind me asking?

Vegas · May 5, 2009

Ooh nice! Why did you choose the 580 over the 430 if you don't mind me asking?

The 580EXII can rotate both left and right by 180 degrees. The 430EXII cannot

- The 580EXII can accept a CP-E4 Battery Pack. The 430EXII cannot

- The 580EXII has Flash Exposure Bracketing. The 430EXII does not

- The 580EXII has Stroboscopic functions. The 430EXII does not

- The 580EXII is weather sealed. The 430EXII is not.

- The 580EXII can control other off camera Speedlites. The 430EXII cannot

- The 580EXII is more powerful than the 430EXII.

- For the same output, the 580EXII recycles faster than the 430EXII especially with a CP-E4 attached.

The list goes on and on and on...

Dante74 · May 5, 2009

The list goes on and on and on...

The major reason for me to get the 580 would be the fact that it can act as a (grand ) master flash while the 430 can only act as slave flash but the $130 difference in price still made me go with the 430 II.

::EDIT:: I'm still jealous though. :rolleyes:

Edited May 5, 2009 by Dante74

wizartar · May 5, 2009

I shot with a Nikon D60 & 18-200mm F3.5-5.6G IF-ED AF-S VR DX and for Video a Canon Vixia HF100 + WD-37II.

First off if you're serious about this stuff then invest in a tripod doesn't need to be very expensive, the one I use cost me €30. I use it for Video & Photography. It's on my list of things to upgrade, photography is just a big hole you throw money into so be selective in what you buy... kind of like these Macross toys.

Then learn how to setup your Camera's White Balance. It's better to get it as close to right before going into a software package to do color correction. Using the camera's general "Auto" feature will make it much harder to get more dramatic effects. Also you need to have a general understand of Aperture / Depth of Field, Shutter speed / Exposure & "FILM" ISO value all mean. A very brief description:

Exposure: The overall process of taking a picture. Makes sure that the right about of light has hit the camera's film/sensor and no highlights (bright parts) have been blown. Meaning the bright areas of the picture don't loss detail and just become a big block of white (overexposed). Same apply for shadows, a block of black with no visible details (underexposed).

Aperture: The size of the hole allowing light to enter the camera and hit the film/sensor. The Larger the hole the smaller the F number { f/2.4 = big hole, f/32 = small hole} small F numbers/big hole means more blur for objects outside of focus, it also means a faster shutter speed as part of the exposure process.

Shutter Speed: Used to control how much light gets onto the film/sensor. This and the Film's ISO are normally used to ensure proper exposure while Aperture is about getting the right look. Also the slower the Shutter Speed the great chance of motion blur if there are objects moving in your view. Fast shutter shutter means less motion blur.

Film ISO (Speed of Film):100, 200, 400, 800, 1600, 3200 are the general ones you'll see. This works like shutter speed but with a difference. The higher the number the less light is needed to make the correct exposure but it also means more "film grain/noise" effect is added to the finial image. The lower the number the better quality of picture but more light is required to make a good exposure, so that means either a longer shutter speed or a lower F number for the Aperture.

Light: How all the above interacts is based of this. If you want to have the most control over the finial picture then you need to control all these settings. If you can't then compromises need to be made and prioritize what's most import to the overall composition of the picture.

My Setup:

This all depends on the type of shots you want... For what I need, 2x500 Watt builder laps required mostly for videoing. As if it was photography I'd just change the shutter speed to compensate for the lack of light. I have tinfoil on my ceiling, the dull side showing, to increase the reflectiveness while still defusing the light. I've also cut up old cardboard boxes and rapped tinfoil around these also, again dull side showing to use both as light defuses and reflectors to create "light boxes" of variable size depending on what's on my table. These are just free standing and lean up against something. The entire setup cost me about €56 include 3x60W desk laps for highlights or background fill lights to create depth in a shot.

Not to be whoring my videos but if you look at my older stuff you'll see how all the light stuff effects the over all quality of the video compared to my more recent ones.

Edited May 5, 2009 by wizartar

anime52k8 · May 5, 2009

There you go, the perfect lens for your needs! It's an L EF lens with lots of zoom range and it's cheaper than the 24-70.
BTW: Canon's L range is their pro range meaning they're built to last. Besides the difference in picture quality, if you ever want to know why you're paying so much extra for an L lens go to a shop and hold an L lens and a 18-55 kitlens.

you know I'm just going to suck it up and get the 24-70. it does exactly what I want, and I'll be able to save up enough in a couple of months. (I need to find work this summer though so I can afford this AND something to shoot with it)

Vegas · May 5, 2009

The major reason for me to get the 580 would be the fact that it can act as a (grand ) master flash while the 430 can only act as slave flash but the $130 difference in price still made me go with the 430 II.
::EDIT:: I'm still jealous though.

WELL......im still jealous of your :lol: 40D

Vegas · May 5, 2009

you know I'm just going to suck it up and get the 24-70. it does exactly what I want, and I'll be able to save up enough in a couple of months. (I need to find work this summer though so I can afford this AND something to shoot with it)

i ended up getting the 24-70mm as well as i shoot alot at night or in low light conditions. it is heavy though but its built like a tank.

MacrossMan · May 6, 2009

Aw, thanks man.
So, UI is just user interface. The d40 uses the big LCD panel on the back to clearly show the settings and metering, so it's easy to spot what the exposure is, shutter speed and aperture.

And auto focus motor is probably what you're thinking of. Basically some lenses (AF-S for nikon) have a built in motor for the purpose. Older lenses require a motor in the camera itself to push/pull the mechanics of the lens for auto focus to work. Honestly, most modern lenses come with this feature. This is really only an issue for legacy lenses or if you're looking to buy older lenses off of ebay.

So, the single most important thing is to know what type of photography you're going to be doing. You mentioned in the other thread that it was primarily going to be family gatherings and then shots for your toy hobby. Okay, so then you'll want to know if your family get togethers are during the day and outdoors or primarily evening affairs or indoors.

If it's going to be out doors, the standard kit lens the nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5 - 5.6G is a decent lens. This will give you a modest wide angle shot and zoom in for a pretty good portrait shot. The "f/3.5 - 5.6" describes the aperture or how wide the lens will open up. The lower the number, the wider it gets which has two effects. The first is speed. The wider it is, the more light it allows in which allows for faster shutter speeds. The 2nd effect is the depth of field. This is basically how much of your picture is in focus. If you look at my shots, I typically shoot with a low depth of field so only a specific part of the image is in focus with the immediate foreground and background not in focus. Shooting with a higher 'f-stop' restricts the light but puts more of the image in focus.

The kit lens (this is gonna be true for both the nikkor and cannon lenses) has a variable f-stop. This means that depending on what level of zoom you're on, the f-stop has a minimum value of f/3.5 - 5.6. Other lenses will have say just "f.28" or what have you and that means that no matter what zoom you are dialed into you will always have that minimum f-stop available for use. There's some lenses where this isn't true but I won't bore you unless you really care.

So, if you're going to be shooting outdoors, during the day, then the nikkor 18-55mm is a decent lens to start off with OR if you don't mind using flash for indoor/night time shooting. Proper flash usage is a field of study in itself, one that I know next to nothing about only that I hate the way flash looks.

So, if you think you're going to need a faster lens and you're on a budget, I would look at the prime lenses. A prime lens means that it has a fixed focal length. No zoom. So if you want more things in frame, you need to back up, or move forward to tighten your composition. The pluses are numerous though. One, these lenses are FAST and cheap the nikkor 50mm f/1.8 is around a hundred bucks. The 50mm will give your shots that "portrait" look since with the cropped sensor it will look slightly zoomed in. Also, the primes are SHARP, you'll get results that have little distortion both in geometry and in color.

So... I would either just get the D40 kit or if you can swing the extra money, get the 50mm prime on top of it so you'll have some more flexible options for shooting indoors.

Thanks for the info eugimon. Definitely something to consider. You basically hit things on the nose as far as what I am trying to shoot. Just want to get some nice shots of family when we get together for holidays and other celebrations. The occasional family reunion might have activities outdoors, but I don't want to get terribly deep into this thing with cash and technicalities. I just need a good solid camera that can take excellent photos of those events and even better photos of my hobby.

I imagine I could probably pull this off with a nice point and shoot, but I want something "next level" if you will. That being said I am certainly not looking to transition into another camera; certainly not at this price point. I'd rather spend a few extra bucks for something entry level that has some buildability to it.

Basically a good solid camera and if I decide to spend more money it would be in lenses. I did not know the D40 did not have the auto focus motor in it and this is a feature I think I would want to have. What is a step above the D40 that would have this feature? Do you know? And how much more money are we talking?

I shot with a Nikon D60 & 18-200mm F3.5-5.6G IF-ED AF-S VR DX and for Video a Canon Vixia HF100 + WD-37II.
First off if you're serious about this stuff then invest in a tripod doesn't need to be very expensive, the one I use cost me €30. I use it for Video & Photography. It's on my list of things to upgrade, photography is just a big hole you throw money into so be selective in what you buy... kind of like these Macross toys.

Then learn how to setup your Camera's White Balance. It's better to get it as close to right before going into a software package to do color correction. Using the camera's general "Auto" feature will make it much harder to get more dramatic effects. Also you need to have a general understand of Aperture / Depth of Field, Shutter speed / Exposure & "FILM" ISO value all mean. A very brief description:

Exposure: The overall process of taking a picture. Makes sure that the right about of light has hit the camera's film/sensor and no highlights (bright parts) have been blown. Meaning the bright areas of the picture don't loss detail and just become a big block of white (overexposed). Same apply for shadows, a block of black with no visible details (underexposed).

Aperture: The size of the hole allowing light to enter the camera and hit the film/sensor. The Larger the hole the smaller the F number { f/2.4 = big hole, f/32 = small hole} small F numbers/big hole means more blur for objects outside of focus, it also means a faster shutter speed as part of the exposure process.

Shutter Speed: Used to control how much light gets onto the film/sensor. This and the Film's ISO are normally used to ensure proper exposure while Aperture is about getting the right look. Also the slower the Shutter Speed the great chance of motion blur if there are objects moving in your view. Fast shutter shutter means less motion blur.

Film ISO (Speed of Film):100, 200, 400, 800, 1600, 3200 are the general ones you'll see. This works like shutter speed but with a difference. The higher the number the less light is needed to make the correct exposure but it also means more "film grain/noise" effect is added to the finial image. The lower the number the better quality of picture but more light is required to make a good exposure, so that means either a longer shutter speed or a lower F number for the Aperture.

Light: How all the above interacts is based of this. If you want to have the most control over the finial picture then you need to control all these settings. If you can't then compromises need to be made and prioritize what's most import to the overall composition of the picture.

My Setup:

This all depends on the type of shots you want... For what I need, 2x500 Watt builder laps required mostly for videoing. As if it was photography I'd just change the shutter speed to compensate for the lack of light. I have tinfoil on my ceiling, the dull side showing, to increase the reflectiveness while still defusing the light. I've also cut up old cardboard boxes and rapped tinfoil around these also, again dull side showing to use both as light defuses and reflectors to create "light boxes" of variable size depending on what's on my table. These are just free standing and lean up against something. The entire setup cost me about €56 include 3x60W desk laps for highlights or background fill lights to create depth in a shot.

Not to be whoring my videos but if you look at my older stuff you'll see how all the light stuff effects the over all quality of the video compared to my more recent ones.

Great info wizatar! I've watched several of your videos on Youtube and had no idea you were a member here. Thanks for the post. I think this will come in handy as I learn to shoot photos.

Being the chronic procrastinator I am, I just received tax refunds for 2007 last week and today. My procrastination cost me $1500 in stimulus money , but I will be filing 2008 taxes this weekend. Long story short, it looks like I might a few extra bucks to spend a little more on my camera of choice. For some reason I the Nikon brand sticks with me. Any pros and cons in regards to Cannon vs. Nikon?

Dante74 · May 6, 2009

For some reason I the Nikon brand sticks with me. Any pros and cons in regards to Cannon vs. Nikon?

Canon FTW!!!11ONE j/k.

They both make great camera's, it's all up to personal preference.

When you watch a sports event, the white lenses are Canons.

http://viz.cwrl.utexas.edu/files/CanonShades.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/45/152386454_fa67e5da89.jpg

Vegas · May 6, 2009

:lol:

wizartar · May 6, 2009

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/gfer...imejanlampu.jpg

That's one expensive table!

If anyone is looking for a good camera review site I found the following very good: www.dpreview.com

Edited May 6, 2009 by wizartar

eugimon · May 6, 2009

Yes, I too believe that's all canon is good for. :lol:

A lot of professional shooters get their equipment from them employers, wedding photographers, sports photographers, they don't own that gear, the company does.

And a lot of people are basically stuck with whatever brand they made their initial investment in. A good lens can lest for decades and once someone has bought a lens that costs a few thousand dollars, they don't want to rebuy that lens because they decide to jump ship.

Between the two companies, Canon is generally considered more cutting edge while Nikon's philosophy was more of, "we'll wait to do it right". So typically you'll see canon with more megapixels, or incorporating features like image stabilization first and nikon following a year or so after. Also, canon researches and makes their own sensors while Nikon gets theirs from Sony. But to back up nikon's, "we do it right" claims, nikon generally gets the nod for better image quality between them and sony, even though the sensor is the same. Just more refined programming and implementation in the Nikon. For the last couple of cameras, Canon has been beating Nikon in megapixels while Nikon has been beating Canon in ISO performance.

What I suggest, and this is what i did, I suggest either renting or borrowing the two cameras you're considering. And walk around all day and shoot with them. When you're not stuck with legacy lenses, you can make a decision based purely on what you feel more comfortable with. Like the user interface and the ergonomics of the camera. My wife loves the more contoured grip of canons while I don't care for their button layout and UI.

MacrossMan, for the AF motor, you need to jump up to the D70/80 line and prices for body only start around 800$.

Edited May 6, 2009 by eugimon

Lynx7725 · May 6, 2009

What I suggest, and this is what i did, I suggest either renting or borrowing the two cameras you're considering. And walk around all day and shoot with them. When you're not stuck with legacy lenses, you can make a decision based purely on what you feel more comfortable with. Like the user interface and the ergonomics of the camera. My wife loves the more contoured grip of canons while I don't care for their button layout and UI.

I second this. Get out to the showrooms and fondle a few cameras to see what fits you better. :lol: You'll likely to be lugging a big stack of stuff around, so having a comfortable camera is a good thing.

I personally didn't like the Canon UI, particularly in the viewfinder; too busy IMO -- only found out about this after peering through one. And although I liked the D40, after handling one in the local Nikon showroom, I won't use it, as my hands are too big for the camera (I normally shoot wiht a D70, which is significantly bigger).

Vegas · May 6, 2009

macrossman also consider the sony dslr's. the user interface on their cameras are easy.

Vegas · May 6, 2009

macrossman also consider the sony dslr's. the user interface on their cameras are easy.

one gripe about the nikons is that their raw software converter is not included and you will have to buy it separately, while the canon and sony are included

MacrossMan · May 6, 2009

macrossman also consider the sony dslr's. the user interface on their cameras are easy.

one gripe about the nikons is that their raw software converter is not included and you will have to buy it separately, while the canon and sony are included

Any sugguestions on a Sony DSLR? Solid cam that I won't grow out of any time soon that will provide a solid base for adding a nice lens. Thanks Vegas!

Vegas · May 6, 2009

Any sugguestions on a Sony DSLR? Solid cam that I won't grow out of any time soon that will provide a solid base for adding a nice lens. Thanks Vegas!

check the sony alpha 300, 350, canon xs, xsi and the nikon equivalents

eugimon · May 6, 2009

one gripe about the nikons is that their raw software converter is not included and you will have to buy it separately, while the canon and sony are included

"viewNX" it's free and windows photo gallery, though that's slow. And the camera- raw update/plugin for PS handles it as well.

Personally, if you're gonna spend Sony money, get the Nikon. The only thing that the sony has over the nikon is the swivel LCD display but performance and lens selection the Nikon equivalents beat the sony hands down.

Edited May 6, 2009 by eugimon

Vegas · May 6, 2009

check them all out at bestbuy

eugimon · May 6, 2009

check them all out at bestbuy

if you have a ritz or real camera store near you, try there... better selection and more knowledgeable sales people. Just don't buy there, they're expensive as hell. And they can be snobs. :lol:

Vegas · May 6, 2009

if you have a ritz or real camera store near you, try there... better selection and more knowledgeable sales people. Just don't buy there, they're expensive as hell. And they can be snobs.

i second that....just play with them

eugimon · May 7, 2009

d90 refurb for 700

http://www.jr.com/nikon/pe/NKN_D90_hy_RB/?...lGRDq/ULw3JACgg

wizartar · May 7, 2009

IMO, most people can't tell the difference by looking at a picture which camera shot it. So find the one that feels nice and is easy to use. Why are you going DSLR? Just looking for higher quality snaps or do you want to start printing or flickering your work? Are you planing to take days out to find photos? If not then kit lens will most lightly fit the bill.

Beginner Photographer = DSLR Camera + Kit lens 18-55mm (portrait range + small groups)

Amateur Photographer = DSLR Camera + 18-200mm or (18-55mm Kit + 70-300mm better range but have to swap lens. The second lens combo is quite common as people advance from beginner they understand why >100mm is very useful and either sell on their old kit or get a 70-300 to complement the kit lens)

The only problem I have with my Nikon D60 is the limited 3 auto focus points, would have like 9, other then that I can't fault it. But since I'm used to shooting that way now it's not a problem; it's the only real weakness of the D60.

Why did I get Nikon, because at the end of the day there's very little different and it came down to value for money on the deal I could get for the Nikon + tripod + lens + bag was better then what I could find for a Canon 450D. But this is mostly because I live in Ireland and get ripped off most of the time unless shopping online.

Other tips general tips for DSLR:

* You'll need a decent cleaning kit for DSLR camera. This isn't like a snapper, you need proper stuff like blowers + microfiber cleaning cloths so as not to scratch the lens. A good lens cost the same as the camera!

* Always use a lens hood + Clear UV protector. Make sure the clear UV protector is good quality. Why??? stop the real lens + glass from getting dirty/dusty + scratch or other accidents. Better to ruin a $30 UV lens then $650 lens!!!

* Invest in a decent bag + tripod to keep this stuff all together. Also a remote control can be useful if you want to take night shot of stars and not have camera shake as those exposures can take minutes! The RC is fairly cheap.

Vegas · May 7, 2009

thanks wizartar for the tips....i keep on forgetting to buy that uv filter.

anyways im planning on buying this lens

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/8006...0mm_f_5_6L.html

:lol: :lol: :lol:

eugimon · May 7, 2009

thanks wizartar for the tips....i keep on forgetting to buy that uv filter.
anyways im planning on buying this lens

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/8006...0mm_f_5_6L.html

:lol:

no wonder you're looking to let go of your collection. :blink:

kurdt_the_goat · May 7, 2009

I know this is the professional photography thread, and all this talk of DSLR's makes me want one too, but I think a good option are the ultra/super zoom cameras.

A while ago i bought a Panasonic FZ8 with 12x zoom. There's no doubt that DSLR's take better photos (the FZ8 exhibits a lot of noise at 100% view on a computer) - but for way less than half the cost, you can get a very good camera with more than decent manual controls too. It can take some serious closeups with that zoom. Just looking around now, the current crop seems to have 20x zoom which is just incredible for the price IMO!

Edited May 7, 2009 by kurdt_the_goat

Dante74 · May 7, 2009

thanks wizartar for the tips....i keep on forgetting to buy that uv filter.
anyways im planning on buying this lens

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/8006...0mm_f_5_6L.html

:lol:

So, you selling the house?

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