x-02

[David Hingtgen]

The X-02 really does remind me of the YF-23. Biggest Give-away for me is the way the X-02 folds down it's vert stabilizers when goin supersonic, just like the Real World YF-23.

Umm, what? The YF-23 can't fold its stabs.

Anyways, replying to F-ZeroOne:

Nope, still unknown. Simply "1.6+ supercruise, 1.8+ max". It certainly could easily exceed Mach 2, some people like to toss out Mach 3---which I wouldn't totally rule out. But personally I'd put the highest possible max at 2.7 or 2.8 due to sheer heat issues. Going Mach 3 is "the next level" for aircraft materials, and there's almost no way they'd have designed it for that. I'd probably say most likely it's in the 2.4 to 2.6 range---a bit slower to a bit faster than an F-15. The acceleration rate is anecdotally known:

At mil throttle, it'll easily out-accelerate an F-16 using full burner.

I suspect its transonic acceleration would be even better, as if you look at it carefully---I think the YF-23 may be the most area-ruled plane ever built.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

The testors, Italeri and Tamiya are like all the same kit/mold in a different box As a matter of fact just about all of Tamiya's 1/72 line are repackgaged italeri kits, down to the instructions and decals It's a great thing, except for that unlike Hasegawa Italeri Sucks and makes me have to get my own pilot figures

I thought the Tamiya is a repackaged Testors kit but the Italeri kit is a separate tooling?

Edited May 23, 2007 by Retracting Head Ter Ter

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Nope, still unknown. Simply "1.6+ supercruise, 1.8+ max". It certainly could easily exceed Mach 2, some people like to toss out Mach 3---which I wouldn't totally rule out. But personally I'd put the highest possible max at 2.7 or 2.8 due to sheer heat issues. Going Mach 3 is "the next level" for aircraft materials, and there's almost no way they'd have designed it for that. I'd probably say most likely it's in the 2.4 to 2.6 range---a bit slower to a bit faster than an F-15. The acceleration rate is anecdotally known:

At mil throttle, it'll easily out-accelerate an F-16 using full burner.

I suspect its transonic acceleration would be even better, as if you look at it carefully---I think the YF-23 may be the most area-ruled plane ever built.

What about that argument on lack of variable intake ramps hurting its Mach 1.8+++++ performance?

[David Hingtgen]

The Super Crusader hit 2.6 on fixed ramps with a heck of a lot less thrust, and was expected to hit 2.9 with a production engine. That's what sleekness can do. Variable ramps are not as great as they are made out to be. They increase efficiency, and are worth a bit of power----they're what made the Concorde BARELY economical, and get that last .1 Mach from the F-14 and F-15. But they're really not worth the weight and maintenance hassle---the Tornado has had them removed/disabled for years.

Like most all things in aviation, the lack of variable ramps can be made up by having MORE ENGINE POWER. And the YF-23 certainly has plenty. (Heck, if the GE-F120 went into production they'd probably be 42,000lbs+ now) Plus its incredible sleekness and area-ruling, even greater than that of the Super Crusader.

If variable ramps were needed to go fast, the Super Crusader couldn't out-run the F-14 and F-15. All a variable ramp does is reduce the shockwave in the inlet from one big energy-sucking acute wave, to multiple weaker oblique ones. Because supersonic air going into an engine WILL slow down to subsonic speed, making your standard mach-cone shockwave in the process. Formation of that shockwave requires energy taken from the air in the intake, which means less energy the engine can use to produce thrust. The F-16/18/22/23 all have "brute force" intakes---one big shockwave at the lip, and they accept the energy loss penalty in the intake. The F-4/14/15/Flanker have multiple ramps to slow down the air in several gradual stages to have small weak shockwaves, to have a smaller energy loss---but pay for it increased weight.

[F-ZeroOne]

Anyways, replying to F-ZeroOne:

Nope, still unknown. Simply "1.6+ supercruise, 1.8+ max". It certainly could easily exceed Mach 2, some people like to toss out Mach 3---which I wouldn't totally rule out. But personally I'd put the highest possible max at 2.7 or 2.8 due to sheer heat issues. Going Mach 3 is "the next level" for aircraft materials, and there's almost no way they'd have designed it for that. I'd probably say most likely it's in the 2.4 to 2.6 range---a bit slower to a bit faster than an F-15. The acceleration rate is anecdotally known:

At mil throttle, it'll easily out-accelerate an F-16 using full burner.

I suspect its transonic acceleration would be even better, as if you look at it carefully---I think the YF-23 may be the most area-ruled plane ever built.

Thanks, David - I've been curious about that for a while. I had read that on one of the early flight tests that the chase planes had trouble keeping up on mil power.

[wm cheng]

Fans of the XFA-27 (or Ace Comabt X), check out this wallpaper:

http://www.acecombat.jp/ace-x/img/wp/WP_or...rcraft_1280.jpg

WOW! Electric Indigo... what's Ace Combat X? I love the aircraft designs!! Any models of those exists? What are they? I have Ace Combat 5 and I've never seen anything like those! Must have Hasegawa make those designs!

[electric indigo]

Ace Combat X = Ace Combat for PSX

here are more pics of the fictional fighters:

And we should finally beat someone to make us a 1/72 XFA-27 kit.

[David Hingtgen]

Cariburn? Probably should be Caliburn.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

OK thanks David.

So if they made a production F-23 without sticking on too many line-spoiling gubbins and a pair of 40k thrust class engine, it will probably end up like the Super Crusader - heat limited?

[David Hingtgen]

Probably. Very few planes hit Mach 3, but a decent number get to 2.8 or so without much trouble. As I often say--more thrust can solve most aerodynamic problems. (or in the case of the F-4, it's the only way that thing can fly) But we'll probably never know the real speeds the YF-23 was capable of. Maybe it's as low as 2.2, maybe as high as 2.9 or so. At least the SR-71's true speeds are now known for sure, but there's still a bunch of people who like to say Mach 4 or 5 (or even 14!) for it.

[wm cheng]

Ace Combat X = Ace Combat for PSX

here are more pics of the fictional fighters:

And we should finally beat someone to make us a 1/72 XFA-27 kit.

Thanks, I do like the Cariburn (or whatever) nice lines - I hope they make kits of it. I wouldn't mind a Ace Combat for PS2 with more futuristic fighters too - but they'd probably be concentrating on the PS3 by now (too bad). I love sleek lines!

[electric indigo]

Did you play Ace Combat 3: Electrosphere (jap. version)?