Thoughts on the end of Macross TV

[lord_breetai]

It's been more then some time since I picked up the Macross DVDs but for some reason I never got around to watching past the final battle with the Bodolza Fleet... until now. I was actually suprised to find myself crying at the end of it... there was much less expostion on the part of the three central characters then I remember watching the Robotech VHSs all those years ago. I seem to remember them going into a lot more detail to explain how Rick really loved Lisa and not Minmei... but here it's left unsaid and understood... there's also a sadder aspect to the Minmay character she's finally matured and reached the point where she really understands herself as a person. And she realizes that she can't be with Hikaru because she lives in a different world and that she could not stand the pain of having to wait for a soldier to come back to her... there's the sense that Hikaru still loves her but it's not just ment to be... and that made me cry.

It's been many years since my love of Macross eclipsed my love of Robotech but watching those final moments you truly realize how rich a human drama is compared to it's american counterpart. I still can't say I hate robotech, I even like it a bit... but through what Macross left unsaid it proves to be a more masterful work of art... where as Robotech didn't trust it's watchers to get it on their own.

Just my thoughts... things for me have finally come full circle.

AD 2012, So long.

[Tinderfitles]

the ending made my cry a little inside =/

[justvinnie]

*wonders if omnipresent narrator is in Shadow Chronicles*

Seriously, watching RT is like watching Macross through someone's window with the curtains closed. While its awesomeness is still evident, the image isn't so clear. I just don't think you should go mucking around with someone else creative work, regardless of whatever right you own.

vinnie

[Keith]

Don't forget that the Macross ending also doesn't have all the unnecessary off-screen carnage. That also makes a big difference, as it's not trying to steal the dramatic thunder away from the central characters.

[lord_breetai]

Don't forget that the Macross ending also doesn't have all the unnecessary off-screen carnage. That also makes a big difference, as it's not trying to steal the dramatic thunder away from the central characters.

True they don't explain what happend to the Macross either way I guess you just assume the bridge crew is safe cause Misa didn't say anything.

[Keith]

True they don't explain what happend to the Macross either way I guess you just assume the bridge crew is safe cause Misa didn't say anything.

Well that, and the fact that Kamjin's ship only hit the Daedelus arm...

[lord_breetai]

Well that, and the fact that Kamjin's ship only hit the Daedelus arm...

Yes but the damage looks a lot worse in a couple shots... I mean it kinda looks like the bridge is demolished there... even in the Robotech Wildstorm comics they showed the SDF-1 as being mostly intact afterwords.

And with the scene with the bridge crew being tossed around... If I didn't know better from the offical story I'd say it'd be almost as ambigous as Char and Amuro's "Death" in CCA. But of course if Misa's closest friends were dead she'd probably be a little shook up. I mean I know you're supposed to see Misa and realize they were okay... and I can accept that it's a great ending to the series. but yeah just saying.

One final question when was the battle with Kamjin? how long after Christmas, I'm just curious how long Minmay was at Hikaru's place.

Edited October 12, 2006 by lord_breetai

[Maxtype]

It's been more then some time since I picked up the Macross DVDs but for some reason I never got around to watching past the final battle with the Bodolza Fleet... until now. I was actually suprised to find myself crying at the end of it... there was much less expostion on the part of the three central characters then I remember watching the Robotech VHSs all those years ago. I seem to remember them going into a lot more detail to explain how Rick really loved Lisa and not Minmei... but here it's left unsaid and understood... there's also a sadder aspect to the Minmay character she's finally matured and reached the point where she really understands herself as a person. And she realizes that she can't be with Hikaru because she lives in a different world and that she could not stand the pain of having to wait for a soldier to come back to her... there's the sense that Hikaru still loves her but it's not just ment to be... and that made me cry.

It's been many years since my love of Macross eclipsed my love of Robotech but watching those final moments you truly realize how rich a human drama is compared to it's american counterpart. I still can't say I hate robotech, I even like it a bit... but through what Macross left unsaid it proves to be a more masterful work of art... where as Robotech didn't trust it's watchers to get it on their own.

Just my thoughts... things for me have finally come full circle.

AD 2012, So long.

Similar to my reaction when I finally got to SEE the real Macross instead of Robotech ending.It's interesting to note you mention Minmay's growing maturity-many of the people I know who are Macross/Robotech fans HATE Minmay-but I always argue that she is little more than a child at the start of the show-finding herself becoming an idol and than one of the pivot points of the war might mess up anybody-especially a 15-16 year-old kid.

Another thing for me is,at the start Minmay overshadows the other female characters with her charm,innocence,and vivaciousness-but as the story goes I learned to appreciate Misa's courage and strengnth of will until she seems much more attractive to me.( For purposes of this discussion we'll leave Miria to the side 'cause of her sheer sexyness,exotic difference and being a fighter pilot put her in a whole other league for me . )None of this should be taken to mean that I stop liking Minmay as a character.She comes full circle for me in Flashback 2012 at the concert/sdf-2 Megaroad launch.She now seems a woman grown,at peace with her choices and joy with her abilities and role.It brings tears to my eyes as the concert finishes,Megaroad launches,and Hikaru's VF-4 squad forms up-with a thumbs-up for Captain Misa on the bridge we know all three characters are where they belong.

[DeathHammer]

Please Delete Thanks

Edited February 9, 2010 by DeathHammer

[jenius]

At the risk of harshing the love-fest, those last episodes also have some really REALLY lame moments to them also. I know my memory is a bit tainted by the animation in some parts also though. That episode with Minmay in the fork prison and the zents smoking giant cigars and eating giant drumsticks definitely comes to mind.

[sketchley]

Something to keep in mind is that the general rule of thumb is that US TV series are produced differently than the average Japanese or Asian TV series. This isn't just anime, but all television.

Sticking specifically to animation, Macross was originally accepted for something like 24 episodes (the standard series length of most anime.) At some point, the series (Macross) was expanded to 27 episodes - and we can see the evidence of that with at least one semi-filler episode: "Global's Report." The episodes after 27 were kind of an encore based on the shows popularity, and marketing successes, and the few dangling plot lines that needed to be cleared up.

What is true of Macross is true of most every anime and drama made in Japan, and Asia in general. Soap operas and sitcoms are nonexistant, and by and large, every show has a set number of episodes. Anywhere from under half-a-dozen, to the triples of dozens.

[lord_breetai]

Of course there are exceptions to that, but I think that's what makes most asian shows more interesting then modern american shows, the fact that they don't keep dragging but have a clear focus. It's not a bad thing IMHO.

And the giant fork prison was funny!

[Keith]

The easiest comparison would be Babylon 5. Originally intended for 5 seasons, then threatened by cancellation in the 4th, they rapped up much of the story, only to get that 5th season, and have to stretch it back out.

[jenius]

The easiest comparison would be Babylon 5. Originally intended for 5 seasons, then threatened by cancellation in the 4th, they rapped up much of the story, only to get that 5th season, and have to stretch it back out.

I don't know why, but this seems like a good place to point out how cool Firefly was (especially on DVD with the other episodes and slightly altered dialogue). Serenity was a wonderful way of tying that story up also.

Asian TV doesn't do the long drawn out series huh? No Simpsons in Asia? Well, on the one hand that saves you from the ridiculous "jump the shark" moments but some shows do go out gracefully over here too.

[sketchley]

No, I didn't say all shows are not long, drawn out series. Just that the majority are (not long, drawn out series.)

For example, an exception would be the long running "Sazae-san." It's been on TV since October, 1969. I don't think that there are many shows with that kind of endurance, in any television market on Earth! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sazae-san

Edited October 16, 2006 by sketchley

[Zinjo]

The easiest comparison would be Babylon 5. Originally intended for 5 seasons, then threatened by cancellation in the 4th, they rapped up much of the story, only to get that 5th season, and have to stretch it back out.

Actually that is one of the best analogies of anime shows compared to North American shows. However, one side note is that Bab 5 was threatened with cancellation at the end of just about every season... Though, the 4 th season had a substantial amount of season 5 in it because JMS was convinced that they were not going to get a repreave and then out of the blue WB bought the show...

Anyway back on topic, I don't know if it is still the case, but back when SDF Macross was being produced the networks would give producers a "3 minute warning" type notification that their show was to be cancelled and this gave the writers the opportunity to wrap up story threads and plot issues before the end. Which is why you never see an anime program just suddenly "stop", like we do here.

With respect to Minmay, I agree that the "Angel Paint" footage best wraps up the character of Minmay in that she had grown up and summed up her experience with the love triangle in the song "Angel Paint". If you listen/read the words it describes how, as much as it hurt her to loose Hikaru, she chose to accept her choices and move on.

I know the main reason why RT fans hate that Minmay is because she was a no talent whiner that drove you nuts after a while. Even at the end you never got the sense that she ever grew up like the Macross Minmay.

[Totoro242]

It's been on TV since October, 1969. I don't think that there are many shows with that kind of endurance, in any television market on Earth!

The Guiding Light

[Beltane70]

Asian TV doesn't do the long drawn out series huh? No Simpsons in Asia?

They'll stilll play The Simpsons. Just because they don't tend to make their own series long, doesn't mean that they won't play imported shows that are long.

[Keith]

I'm pretty sure they still give lead time warnings, at least they did in the 90's. Gundam X was a good example of "oh crap, budget's been cut, we better tie this up fast." Only show I can think of, at least that's been brought over here, was Candidate for Goddess, which literally just abrubtly ended. Big O I don't consider falling under this catagory, since I don't believe it was ever intended to have a finite ending. Then when they tried, they made it worse than the original ending...

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I liked the fact that minmay's world was destroyed by the war, and that reality set in for both of them. It wasn't just about them at all, but what would have been best for future generations. Without one (the dream. which is what minmay set out to do and achieve onboard the macross)you can't have the other. (the reality. hikaru being grounded in the everyday conflict to protect what exists to ensure a future) Both dream and reality are co-dependant.

Sure the love triangle was important, but beyond just those three main characters, were the hopes of other people riding on thier success as soldiers and in minmay's case, the use of spreading culture to aliens and not just getting rich and famous and living an easy life as a star.

Too bad they all died on the megaroad though. I still think of the tv series as the best telling of SW I vs the simplified movie version. You never got the chance to see the characters change and build in a short space of time. Hikaru merely sleeps with misa out of desperation of being the only survivors left rather than genuine appreciation for who she is and then hikaru decides he takes misa over minmay so suddenly and quickly with no realistic timeframe to explain that decision and bring justification to it. TV series > movie. (accept in the area of quality of animation of course)

Edited October 18, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Keith]

No one died on the Megaroad, they just gave the finger to the rest of civilization, and dissapeared for parts unknown.

[DeathHammer]

Please Delete Thanks

Edited February 9, 2010 by DeathHammer

[Zinjo]

One thing that I've always considered about SDF Macross is how it was made in a less politically correct time.

Let's be honest about it, the show's fanbase was bolstered by crossover US fans via Macek's Robotech and I don't know how long Robotech would have lasted in the current 3:30 afterschool time slot.

If it weren't for the Macross chapter of RT the show would have failed horribly. Most endured the Southern Cross portion only to be rewarded by the Mospeada series at the end. I still maintain that RT would have be more of a lasting success had it been an anthology series to bring over self contained mecha series' under under the RT brand name blanket..

I mean the show had pseudo incest, mass extermination of most of the human race, and many negative portrayals of women. Soccer moms would cry about the violence in the show to advertisers, who would pressure whatever network that broadcasted the show. God knows what the feminists would do since they get pissed off by pretty much everything. I'm sure some religious group would chime in and concoct a way for Macross to be anti semetic or just as Satanic as Harry Potter except with more mechs.

The "pseudo incest" you speak of is only found in North American culture, not the rest of the world, particularly in asia.

There were protests about the show mainly for the fact that "the good guys died"! The furvor over the death of Kakizaki was stupid. All the soccer moms wanted their kids to see the anticeptic war of GI Joe where only the machinery was destroyed, no one really died...

All the rest you describe is 90's stupidity. The 80's were mainly about the cold war, the religous rightwing politicos, music and making money.

Sometimes I imagine a SDF Macross where Misa is a hard working successful career officer and single mother who can do no wrong. Her kid would be autistic too just to show that Misa is the ultimate chick badass. The show would make sure everyone knew that she didn't "Need No Man" Roy would be a villian because no one gets offended when the white guy is the jerk. To be safe, the show would make him German too. Hikaru would be a metrosexual with Daddy issues. Max would be gay. Ben would be black and yes he would still die first. There would be a pro choice episode where Global had to decide if public praying on Macross was ok or not.

What ever for???

What I find that I really enjoy about SDF Macross and how the show took on those last few episodes is it reminds me of the 80's. A time when TV was far less sophisticated but also far less concerned over who they might offend. I think the show appeals to fans not just because it was cutting edge for it's time, but it's a reminder of an era that was probably simpler and happier for most.

Actually, I found SDF Macross much more sophisticated a show even compared to several modern shows currently out..

[Keith]

I still maintain that RT would have be more of a lasting success had it been an anthology series to bring over self contained mecha series' under under the RT brand name blanket..

You & me both, I've been trying to tell people that for like 15 years!

[Valkyrie addict]

I like the ending of Macross, compared to most TV shows on this era, either they tell you exactly what's going to happen, or they you just don't tell you anything and leave you with more questions than answers

the ending of Macross reflect the beginning of the series, on the beginning, we meet a young man who only cares about flying his fanjet, a young woman who only cares about her job and a little girl full of dreams

the show ends with a young man who has grown as a person by lost of his friends and comrades, learned about the tragedies of life and that he has a world that surrounds him and most of all, learn to love, same with Misa, and of course, Minmey who has also grown up, realizing her dream has come true and that her dedication carryed the world to go on and not surrender

and it leaves us telling us the love triangle is resolved, the war is over, but they will continue living their lifes filled with the daily day tribulations

that show ruled!!

a bit off topic

anyway, on the subject of Anime usually being 20-40 something episodes, what is everyone take on shows like Dragonball, Pokemon and Naruto to name a few, that have gone off forever....it's just meaningless fighting, what's the deal?

[thegunny]

anyway, on the subject of Anime usually being 20-40 something episodes, what is everyone take on shows like Dragonball, Pokemon and Naruto to name a few, that have gone off forever....it's just meaningless fighting, what's the deal?

Merchandising and the lure of the dollar

[Zinjo]

Merchandising and the lure of the dollar

True enough, the main reason why there have been Gundam series' for 3 decades now...

The creator of the series left after Zeta Gundam I believe (Gundamites, feel free to correct me), and yet the merchandising money was so good, Bandai and Sunrise simply never stopped making the shows. Every season there is a new excuse to build and merchanize the latest Mobile suits...

If there is a series that is popular and there is money to be made merchandizing it, sponsors and studio will continue to make shlock until the market gets fed up with it.

[Keith]

He left after Victory actually (2 series, & 2 movies after Zeta), then came back to bring us the awesomenesss that is Turn-A.