High-Def Thread

[CoryHolmes]

I figured it'd be a good idea to start a topic for all sorts of high-definition discussions, especially since our last playground just got Modded. So, sound off and have at it.

[wolfx]

Define "high definition".

[CoryHolmes]

Above "normal definition" and below "extreme definition"

Seriously, I'd started asking questions in the Xbox360 thread about what to look for and what questions to ask when purchasing an HD flat panel and the discussion just grew from there. Since getting modded, I figured we could have our very own thread and keep things on-topic that way.

[Sebastian]

Good idea, In fact I ahve sooooo many questions about HD stuff.

I will go and find my plasma TV specs so maybe some of you can tell me If I screwed up or actually got myself a decent screen.

[wolfx]

OHH....this is a TV thread. I feel dumb now.

[Gaijin]

I fear this thread will be short lived too.

[azrael]

Well, if people have nothing to ask or comment about, then yes, this thread will slowly die.

But to bring the conversation here....

Cory, if the screen you are looking at has 1080p...then you should be set for a while. And if it has the inputs and such, then you should be set.

The way I see it, if you want it, get it. Otherwise, you'll be stuck asking yourself should I get this or that for a while...And by that time, someone will put out something better, or prices will go down making this question trivial.

[CoryHolmes]

Cory, if the screen you are looking at has 1080p...then you should be set for a while. And if it has the inputs and such, then you should be set.

The way I see it, if you want it, get it. Otherwise, you'll be stuck asking yourself should I get this or that for a while...And by that time, someone will put out something better, or prices will go down making this question trivial.

Which is exactly the sort of reasoning that I'm using to actually buy the thing Right now I'm doing all the research I can on plasma's, the care and feeding thereof. AVS Forum is an amazing resource of information, especially for a total newbie such as myself

[Gaijin]

Which is exactly the sort of reasoning that I'm using to actually buy the thing Right now I'm doing all the research I can on plasma's, the care and feeding thereof. AVS Forum is an amazing resource of information, especially for a total newbie such as myself

AVS forum is good (been there a couple years), but like any other message board is filled with elitists and some hard core people who truly don't know what they are talking about though they make it seem as they do.

[CoryHolmes]

Here's another question for you oh-so-smart people. My current home theater receiver doesn't have any HD video inputs, so how could I hook up my XBox 360/next-gen DVD player so that I get both the high definition from the video and the surround sound of my audio?

[Gaijin]

Here's another question for you oh-so-smart people. My current home theater receiver doesn't have any HD video inputs, so how could I hook up my XBox 360/next-gen DVD player so that I get both the high definition from the video and the surround sound of my audio?

Since you're using the 360, you'd connect the component video cables to the TV directly, and use the optical port to go directly to your receiver. You will of course need an optical cable which most HT enthusiasts have in droves. If not, don't spend a lot on one.

[CoryHolmes]

Since you're using the 360, you'd connect the component video cables to the TV directly, and use the optical port to go directly to your receiver. You will of course need an optical cable which most HT enthusiasts have in droves. If not, don't spend a lot on one.

Good point. I'll admit that my research into plasma burn-in has gotten me a tad worried, especially given the price of the units I'm looking at. Perhaps LCD would be the better choice...

[Hoptimus]

LCD is nice for no burn in but the response time is slow. Gaming is a very mixed bag on LCD. Looks vibrant and sharp(almost too sharp!) but if the game moves fast(ie Ridge Racer 6 on 360) you get alot of video delay and ghosting. Heck I was at Circuit City and watching MLB on an LCD HDTV and there was delay because the player was fast. See LCDs are set at a resolution(ie 1368 x 764 etc) that dont match up to HDTV/HD gaming resolutions. The LCD has to convert the HD res to its res. That is what causes the delay and ghosting issues. They have gotten better but are still no match for a finely made and calibrated CRT for gaming. Plasma is nice for gaming too and if you dont play Halo for 8 hours a day then you should be fine with that. CRT was just much cheaper for me and I didnt need much bigger than a 30" WS for my living room. Hope that helped!

[Gaijin]

LCD is nice for no burn in but the response time is slow. Gaming is a very mixed bag on LCD. Looks vibrant and sharp(almost too sharp!) but if the game moves fast(ie Ridge Racer 6 on 360) you get alot of video delay and ghosting. Heck I was at Circuit City and watching MLB on an LCD HDTV and there was delay because the player was fast. See LCDs are set at a resolution(ie 1368 x 764 etc) that dont match up to HDTV/HD gaming resolutions. The LCD has to convert the HD res to its res. That is what causes the delay and ghosting issues. They have gotten better but are still no match for a finely made and calibrated CRT for gaming. Plasma is nice for gaming too and if you dont play Halo for 8 hours a day then you should be fine with that. CRT was just much cheaper for me and I didnt need much bigger than a 30" WS for my living room. Hope that helped!

Not all LCD's are that res. Some are exact native 1280X720 and 1920X 1080. And all native res displays must convert a signal to whatever their res is at...DLP's, LCoS, even Plasmas etc. Some are better than others, some Plasmas are the worst offenders when it comes to gaming lag, some LCD's have no problems. It's really dependent on the model.

Edited October 8, 2006 by Gaijin

[CoryHolmes]

How would the Sony WEGA SXRD 50" Widescreen LCD be for gaming? I've decided to shy away from Plasma's for my first foray into high-def video due to the cost and risk of burn-in. I'd dearly love to get the 60" SXRD from Sony but I can't seem to find one in town

[Uxi]

SXRD is LCoS. I have the 60" and it is marvelous with the 360 set to output 1080i. I also have my PS2 connected via component in Game Mode (which eliminates the lag that would normally result from the upscaling and de-interlacing since the SXRD display all content at 1080p).

Burn in concerns aren't my own most concern to plasma as are the comparitively extreme price for equivalent screen size and resolution. There are many fine plasmas out there. Unfortunately the bulk are still 768P.

[CoryHolmes]

SXRD is LCoS. I have the 60" and it is marvelous with the 360 set to output 1080i. I also have my PS2 connected via component in Game Mode (which eliminates the lag that would normally result from the upscaling and de-interlacing since the SXRD display all content at 1080p).

What should I do to the settings of an SXRD after I get it from the store? I know that plasmas come in a "torch-in" mode where all the settings are jacked up the wazoo for display in the showroom. Does a similar thing happen with LCDs?

Burn in concerns aren't my own most concern to plasma as are the comparitively extreme price for equivalent screen size and resolution. There are many fine plasmas out there. Unfortunately the bulk are still 768P.

All true, but I found a panel that was 1080p and decently large enough for my desires, but the extreme pricetag (over $8,000 CDN) and the chance of a burn-in down the road was enough to make me reconsider my choice. I mean, I was certain that I could follow the directions to prevent such a thing, but my family isn't the most technically savvy of people, and when they come over for Christmas...

[JB0]

What should I do to the settings of an SXRD after I get it from the store? I know that plasmas come in a "torch-in" mode where all the settings are jacked up the wazoo for display in the showroom. Does a similar thing happen with LCDs?

That happens with ALL TVs. And has for ages.

People automatically go for brighter and redder displays, so all TVs have factory defaults of "way the hell too bright" and "way the hell too red" to insure they look their "best" on the showroom floor.

WTHTR is harder to correct, and usually requires a trip to secret depths of the service menu. WTHTB is easy, though.

Easiest thing to do is probably grab a DVD with a THX logo on it. There's a cute display calibration utility present on all THX DVDs that sets a good baseline.

I've found it to land within a few points of my own eyeballing of the situation, but I seem more sensitive to details than some people..

Edited October 9, 2006 by JB0

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

I thought the min spec and preferred ratio for HD was 1268 x 768?

Could someone enlighten me on the diff between plasma, lcd and led TVs?

Edited October 9, 2006 by Retracting Head Ter Ter

[CoryHolmes]

That happens with ALL TVs. And has for ages.WTHTR is harder to correct, and usually requires a trip to secret depths of the service menu. WTHTB is easy, though.

Easy... once we're told what WTHTB stands for, though...

Easiest thing to do is probably grab a DVD with a THX logo on it. There's a cute display calibration utility present on all THX DVDs that sets a good baseline.

I've found it to land within a few points of my own eyeballing of the situation, but I seem more sensitive to details than some people..

Sweetness. I've got Star Wars movies, they're bound to have THX.

[JB0]

Easy... once we're told what WTHTB stands for, though...

Way The Hell Too Bright.

[Uxi]

What should I do to the settings of an SXRD after I get it from the store? I know that plasmas come in a "torch-in" mode where all the settings are jacked up the wazoo for display in the showroom. Does a similar thing happen with LCDs?

Most stores have theirs set to "Vivid" which is the torch mode Sony has and I believe this is the default mode out of the box (though it's also possible it's set to "Standard"). I set mine to "Pro" which opens up the User Menu to full configuration (which is scary complex, since Sony included many features as part of their XBR suite that many manufactuers leave in the Service Menu, like RGB, white balance, etc). This was for the XBR1, which I have.

The A2000 is a "lower end" SXRD that Sony came out with Spring/Summer 2006. Not being an XBR, it lacks features like TwinView/Picture-in-Picture, the 2nd tuner, Memory Stick reader, CableCARD, the more extreme User Menu tweakability, etc.

The XBR2, which are now coming out now have a slightly different nomenclature. Instead of "Pro" it's "Custom." Many of the details of de-interlacing are different, as well.

Then, I'd advise you hit up avsforum.com and go to the appropriate Owners and/or Tweaks thread. There are very large ones for the XBR1 and there are also individual ones for the A2000 and now XBR2, which has just recently (as in the last week) hit the streets.

I used the THX setup in the Star Wars III disc to initially set mine up (matched near perfect out of the box in Pro mode, though I had very slight tweaks to contrast and brightness). The XBR1 has a very good de-interlacing system and processing, but is capable of doing the de-interlacing in one of four ways (bob, weave, and advanced motion-adaptive 8-bit or direct 10-bit), some of which are more appropriate to particular media (standard definition 480i TV versus 720p and/or 1080i HDTV versus sports versus 24fps DVD versus still pictures, etc). I have since moved on to Digital Video Essentials (DVE) and have been tweaking it when I don't get distracted by actually playing games or watching DVD's or HD-channels on it.

Basically if and until you turn into a complete Home Theater geek like I've been, you'll be mostly happy with THX optimizer found on any of the DVD's featuring it and Pro/Custom mode.

[Gaijin]

I thought the min spec and preferred ratio for HD was 1268 x 768?

Could someone enlighten me on the diff between plasma, lcd and led TVs?

HD is 1280X720 or 1920X1080 res wise, in 720 progressive or 1080 interlaced. There is also 1080 progressive though no broadcast or cable stations use that mostly due to bandwidth. Reserved currently for Blu-ray and HD-DVD along with the next gen game consoles also taking advantage of that res(though no HD-DVD player outputs at 1080p even though the discs are capable of full 1080p).

Plasmas are flat panels in which a neon type gas is placed between 2 pieces of glass and is sealed in a plasma form. The gas is "lit" up when in use to provide an image. They use more energy than LCD's and projection type TV's but tend to provide better black levels (closer to a CRT tube). Expensive, more easy to burn in than an LCD (though rare), and a shorter overall life span. It's somewhat oticeable after a few years of use, that Plasmas aren't as "vibrant" as they get older. High altitudes also play a lil havok with Plasmas. Still, not a bad way to get a large flat panel.

LCD's I assume you know since many are used as computer monitors, and laptop screens. Cheaper than PLasma overall , but you don't normally see as large sizes as as the size gets bigger, the price increases much. While there are hardly any "generic" plasmas, you can find bargain basement LCD flat panels from chinese companies you nbever heard of. Many are pretty bad for TV use. LCD's have the advantages of lightweight, and no burn in, but not as "vibrant" blacks on some models. An LCD the same size as a plasma will run cooler and use less energy, but some have poor refresh rates and fast action on screen in a poor set will be noticed as a slight "blur". LCD's can have dead pixels, which can be annoying if it's in the middle of the screen.

LED TV's are just a light source used in sets like LCD's.

Projection flat panels have LCD, DLP, LCoS. These are basically a cheaper way to get a big screen with almost the slimness of a flat panel, reasonably light weight( a 50" LCD projection is around 75-80 lbs only). To go into those would require a long post. Most projections are good values nowadays though.

Edited October 9, 2006 by Gaijin

[CoryHolmes]

Well, thank you all very much. Because of all the wonderful advice given in this thread, That Other Thread , and some reading on AVS Forums, I am now the proud owner of the 46" KDL46XBR2. Went to Best Buy and they were able to work a deal for the Thanksgiving Day sale here in Canada and I got a fairly decent price for it.

It'll be delivered in 16 hours, four minutes, and twenty two seconds. Twenty one seconds. Twenty seconds. Nineteen...

[Gaijin]

Well, thank you all very much. Because of all the wonderful advice given in this thread, That Other Thread , and some reading on AVS Forums, I am now the proud owner of the 46" KDL46XBR2. Went to Best Buy and they were able to work a deal for the Thanksgiving Day sale here in Canada and I got a fairly decent price for it.

It'll be delivered in 16 hours, four minutes, and twenty two seconds. Twenty one seconds. Twenty seconds. Nineteen...

Congrats! Enjoy the goodness of HDTV (assuming you can get some good stations where you are).

[CoryHolmes]

Congrats! Enjoy the goodness of HDTV (assuming you can get some good stations where you are).

Bell has a good sattalite service for a marginal increase in price over the basic cable I'm paying now. In the meantime, the Xbox360 beckons in a very alluring manner (and not just because it's DOA4 ) but also because of the HD-DVD attachment that's due out next month.

But for now I'm faced with the ultimate question: Do I watch Star Wars Ep I-VI, or do I go IV-VI and then I-III?

[JB0]

But for now I'm faced with the ultimate question: Do I watch Star Wars Ep I-VI, or do I go IV-VI and then I-III?

You forgot "4-6 and nothing else."

[Zentrandude]

Also with plasmas they put out lots of heat. My friend has one and he keeps saying the sound of the fan to suck out the heat drives him nuts while watching a movie.

Edited October 10, 2006 by Zentrandude

[Gaijin]

You forgot "4-6 and nothing else."

Not to mention that Ep I as a DVD is horrible in the pic quality dept. as well. Looks fine on a CRT...looks like ass on a fixed panel.

[Poonman]

Also with plasmas they put out lots of heat. My friend has one and he keeps saying the sound of the fan to suck out the heat drives him nuts while watching a movie.

he's probably got a crappy TV then.

Also- laser TV's to replace plasma? http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20556847-2,00.html

http://www.novalux.com/display/solidstatergb.php

Edited October 10, 2006 by Poonman

[CoryHolmes]

It's here! It's here!

It is, in a word, BIG. Now I'm very glad I didn't go with the 60" A2000 because I would've had to reset my entire living room to accomodate that monstrosity. I'm tad annoyed by the visual artifacts when watching SD cable, but it's nothing I can't live with. For a second while I was setting the unit up I was afraid that all images would look like that, but those fears were put rest the second I put DOA4 into 1080i HD mode and saw Ayane bounce around (in more ways than one).

I still haven't run any of the THX optimizers yet, so it's still in the factory-supplied WTHTB modes, but I still can't get over the sheer size of the thing. To paraphrase Dark Helmet: "Oh... oh, my. Your TV is so big!"

[Poonman]

I wouldn't bother with 1080i on the Xbox360.

looks.. weird to me. too many fine lines and artifacts. 1080i is ideal for still images but I've never liked it for gaming. 720p all the way.

[CoryHolmes]

I wouldn't bother with 1080i on the Xbox360.

looks.. weird to me. too many fine lines and artifacts. 1080i is ideal for still images but I've never liked it for gaming. 720p all the way.

My set is 1080 native anyway, so might as well have the 360 output the game data in that format and skip any conversions. But I've only just scratched the surface of what this puppy can do so there'll be ample time for experimentation.

Right now I'm spooging myself over how awesome Star Wars looks like this (and I can't wait for it to hit next-gen format) and then... then comes Halo

[Ladic]

whats the point of adjusting sharpness on a tv? I always have mine almost all of the way down.

[Gaijin]

I wouldn't bother with 1080i on the Xbox360.

looks.. weird to me. too many fine lines and artifacts. 1080i is ideal for still images but I've never liked it for gaming. 720p all the way.

Again display dependant...some sets look better, including 720p native LCD's with 1080i signals set to it.