Heroes

[David Hingtgen]

I thought the whole season's Maya/Sylar plot was wasted. Did anything actually happen? They could have had all the stuff that happened to them tonight, in the first ep of the season.

[Gunbuster]

Why didn't Peter just "phase" through the vault by himself and destory the virus then comes back out and tell Adam the deed has been done?

[azrael]

Please...no more end-of-the-world plots next season. I'm tired of save-the-world plots. It worked fine last season but now it's just boring.

Otherwise the episode was good. Loeb saved what has been a lousy season. Too bad they had to keep Maya around.... Same with Sylar. The murdering sociopath needs to go. I like Adam's personality and motivation more than Sylar. Sylar is just whiny. Maybe because he didn't gain any character development this season. But Adam had some depth. And his fate was very fitting. Nothing better for a man who practically can't die than to be buried 6-feet under.

But really...next season, get rid of Sylar or lock him away for a season. Having a villain show up in every issue of a comic is ridiculously boring.

[Golden Arms]

Okay finale.

They killed the wrong brother. Who's to say that Peter won't pull a Hiro and try to resurrect his brother by going into the past and learning the ID of his brothers killer.

Claire can take a dirtnap as far as I'm concerned. She's a boring character and she's a bigger whiner than Sylar.

[Uxi]

Have I mentione that I would have been sooooo much happier if Peter, Nathan, and Sylar had died at the end of Chapter 1?

Instead both Peter and Sylar will be even MORE super duper powerful. They're going to suffer from Fantastic Four syndrome and eventually we'll run out of disbelief to suspend. If we haven't already.

[David Hingtgen]

I had a thought a few weeks ago, mainly inspired by one of the graphic novels:

Can Adam die from lack of food/air/water? I mean, that's not really "healing". If a bullet to the brain is fatal, wouldn't killing the brain via lack of oxygen also work? (though a bit slower)

[Wes]

I had a thought a few weeks ago, mainly inspired by one of the graphic novels:

Can Adam die from lack of food/air/water? I mean, that's not really "healing". If a bullet to the brain is fatal, wouldn't killing the brain via lack of oxygen also work? (though a bit slower)

I got them working like Highlander-type immortals - they can reanimate if they got the right stuff. Didn't Claire had her head stabbed, and Peter a piece of glass in his head? Once removed, they're back. Then they're like zombie where you got to destroy the brain significantly or something to stay dead. I'm sure once the oxygen runs out he'll just pass out and not suffer too much. We'll probably see him again.

I wish they'd taken him out. He was supposed to be so tough then he didn't even get in one fight, except Hiro in the past.

[justvinnie]

Have I mentione that I would have been sooooo much happier if Peter, Nathan, and Sylar had died at the end of Chapter 1?

Instead both Peter and Sylar will be even MORE super duper powerful. They're going to suffer from Fantastic Four syndrome and eventually we'll run out of disbelief to suspend. If we haven't already.

QFT. There's just too many damn loopholes in Season 2.

Peter has mind reading powers but never does so on Adam to learn the truth. He could have just phased them through the vault but didn't do so. The fact that not 1 not 2, but 3 people tried to convince him that Adam was evil wasn't a big enough of a tip off, two of which he knew to be good guys. It took a fourth one, his brother, for him to be convinced. What are you, stupid? Why didn't he go in and get the virus instead of Adam? His god-like status makes it necessary that he be stupid to advance the already boring story.

Mohinder ducked under Sylar'a arm after the latter shot Maya to get to Molly when he could have disarmed Sylar instead. Play that scene again and tell me there are at least 12 ways to disarm Sylar from that vantage point. What idiot doesn't password protect their computer especially if it contains sensitive files? Why the hell does he carry around so much of Claire's blood when one dose is sufficient? Where the hell are all the people at the lab? Why didn't he take Sylar to a high security lab? Why is Maya STILL alive? Why is Mohinder STILL alive?

Two mind readers in the room and neither could detect the killing intent of the assassin? Shouldn't Peter's blood have healing powers?

It's all mind bogglingly stupid. Suspension of disbelief was oh so much easier season one. Peter and Sylar MUST DIE. When will Tim Kring understand that with their god-like abilities no real interesting story can be told. Unless they retcon a way to cap those two's power or they create some fatal weakness, the stories are going to suck unless both them are dumber than dirt like Peter was this season. I call this the Superman effect. The might as well turn this into DBZ-styled powering up contest.

The finale was a valiant attempt at salvaging a lackluster season, but it was doomed to suck already.

vinnie

[justvinnie]

Oh yeah, I do agree, Adam was a great villain even if they had to spend way too much time on him being Takezo Kensei. If I was alive that long, I'd probably be more jaded and cynical than him. Sylar as a villain sucks. He no longer has that air of mystery and that takes away the menace. He's just a greedy little boy who wants all the powers he can eat.

vinnie

[EXO]

I'm so glad it isn't just me that feels this way about this chapter of Heroes.

As I may or may not have mentioned before... Sylar should have died that last episode of Season One... he really is useless once you get passed the whole I can steal powers crap... I would have preffered if Hiro chopped his dome off right before Nathan and Peter flew away. As for people not coming back, I was wishing that it was DL and Parkman that died. I like Parkman but being shot was a good way out. the only ones that the story should follow are Peter and Nathan, Claire and HRG, Hiro and Ando and Mohinder. I know that MOST of them were weak this season... but they were so uncharacteristic from the original season. I'd rather have Isaac back than Nikki and and her kid. Isaac's been dead and they're still pumping out his comics. How much of it did he draw before he died? Hell. Comic book artists barely have the time to finish titles and this guy is a year ahead of his stories?

I hope the writer strike gets rid of the writers this season... I have a feeling that Brian Fuller was the brain last season, not Tim Kring. As soon as he left the series just went to the crapper.

[cube]

i still think the worst thing they ever did with this series was spend half the first season setting linderman up to be some big shot that controls everything, then they kill him off after 2 or 3 short scenes in a few episodes. He should be the show's magneto, and sylar should be dead and gone

[justvinnie]

I wonered if they knew Adam's blood is a miracle cure, why didn't they stockpile it in the 30 years they had him in captivity? I imagine that after 30 years, you'd have a pretty good about of blood.

vinnie

[baronv]

Did anything happen at all this season, it played pretty much like season one. People die like every episode now and come back to life after the commercial break. I find it hilarious now when the teaser announces "Someones gonna die!" since I know that five minutes later after being shot/stabbed/burned etc. they'll be back.

Peter needs to get thrown away from the show, he's been the cause of the explosion and almost the release of the virus directly...he's no hero just a dumb powerful guy and all Hiro does now is get knocked out all the time. I sure hope Tim K. realizes that the weak story and drop in ratings show that they need to re-energize the show for Season 3 with NEW plots and better NEW characters.

[chowyunskinny]

Isaac's been dead and they're still pumping out his comics. How much of it did he draw before he died? Hell. Comic book artists barely have the time to finish titles and this guy is a year ahead of his stories?

he's not dead, he's chillin with 2Pac

Thug Life is a Ryda for 9th Wondaz

[chrono]

QFT. There's just too many damn loopholes in Season 2.

vinnie

END OF THREAD!

This is the terminal problem with Supa Powers of any type! Unless you have an awesome creative writing crew that completely refuses to write bad material this will ALWAYS happen.

Anyways with this completely horrible season ender I seriously hope that the show does die. So far this season has completely undone half of last seasons story's and character development, while virtually 'resetting' the show at the same time!

The Bad:

HGR is back to his normal tricks. ((WTF!)) Claire is still an immature whiny little batty. Mohinder has still yet to grow up and stop playing at being a crusader. Hiro has been completely FUBAR'ed as a viable character. Peter is a god. Sylar is an insane demi-god. Not milking the Parkman's Father/Company arc for all it's worth! Every 'Leader' of The Company suddenly getting a sense of morals.((oh freaking plz!))

The Good:

Nathan grew up and stopped being a mommy's boy. Killing of Nikki.

The "WTF!" & The "THANK GOD!":

Killing off DL, seriously the only other remotely great character besides Nathan and stupidiest move in the show. The continuous "Oh we forgot that he/she could do this or had this...." story loopholes. Peter's "Irish" story arc.

[Ghadrack]

Don't forget Hiro in your list of characters that have to die to allow for any plot to have meaning. Having a couple characters around that can blink through and move around in time breaks any storyline. Virus, what virus, hiro just went back to the moment it was developed in a frozen moment in time swapped out the vial with some purified water and dropped the evil juice in a volcano. What' the virus mutated in the volcano and became a 40 story tall godzilla bunny, OK he goes back and doesn't drop it in the volcano he straps it to the space shuttle and fluches it into space. the ability to have endless "do overs" well, everyone knows, free wheeling time travel breaks the game.

Hiro's "I'll get revenge on Adam" was farcical, why not as soon as he sees Peter guarding Takezo just blink back to a time when he knows the guy was face down in a ditch drunk and lop off his head, at least if he does it at some random moment in time Peter has to figure out when he died to go back and intervene, oh but wait Peter can read minds, and time becomes a loop.

Time travel and God power characters have to go to make the show fun again.

I think Sylar can still be salvaged as a great enemy character by limiting the numbe of powers he can contain. They can always cap his brain's capacity to carry powers at any time and I can't think of anything he can do at this point that makes him unstoppable.

Peter can Fly, Go Invisible, phase shift, he has Telekenesis, Lightning Bolts, Immortality, Immunity, Time Travel, potentially also do everything that Sylar can because they were in each other's proximity. Peter's character is broken and should just go ahead and ascend to the golden throne or leave earth to go explore the Universe until they have to call him back to fight Galactus or something he wrecks every potential storyline. Ever.

Nikki won't be dead, for some reason, and she hasn't really dont anything worthwhile in the show except look pretty, but they just love having that character running around being "emo".

I love the show, I will tune in next season for "Villains" but they have to do the deed and write off a few characters that leave me scratching my head every week.

[azrael]

I wonered if they knew Adam's blood is a miracle cure, why didn't they stockpile it in the 30 years they had him in captivity? I imagine that after 30 years, you'd have a pretty good about of blood.

Although, is Adam's blood subject to the same issues as with normal blood? RBCs are only kept for about 42 days and frozen plasma is only kept for about a year.

[David Hingtgen]

If his blood heals, can it heal itself? Always-fresh blood... (hey, does that mean it never clots?)

[kalvasflam]

One entertaining thought for the day. Since the virus was never released, there is no worldwide epidemic right?

So, in essence, didn't Peter just erase Caitlin right out of history? She never died, never came back, she is just gone.

As for the whole blood thing, I can see how this can become real ghoulish really quick.

For the show to be pulled back from disaster, Peter and Hiro need to die. And Ando too, because right now, he has no purpose, other than Hiro's buddy. Sylar should live, the more I thought about how they screwed up Sylar all this season, the more I liked how well they finally depicted Sylar in the last couple of episode. Sylar with only a few powers can be an interesting villian, after all, he smarted his way out of potential death situations in the last episode.

[azrael]

I think Sylar can still be salvaged as a great enemy character by limiting the numbe of powers he can contain. They can always cap his brain's capacity to carry powers at any time and I can't think of anything he can do at this point that makes him unstoppable.

Nah. Powers aside...he is still whiny and annoying. If they intend to keep him the same as the past 2 seasons (mmmmm must eat your brains, must be a living Pokemon, must be the greatest sociopath ever, I am "special"), then no, get rid of him or shelve him for an entire season. If I saw Magneto in every X-men book, every month, acting the same way, then it would be a very boring book.

Peter should die along with Sylar. Peter had so much potential, but it was wasted this season. Hiro was "meh" this season. It would have been nice if Hiro learned how to use a sword better. Adam and him could have had a good duel, but that would have required a full season...Wasted potential....

[Dangard Ace]

Peter and Sylar should both go out getting pwned by the true Villain/Hero of Heros.

ULURU is coming.

[Jolly Rogers]

Way to go Hiro, bury Adam 6 ft underground but leaving him alive gives him the perfect way to come back Kill Bill style.

[do not disturb]

^ given the fact hes buried alive and 6 feet under, who the heck is going to free him? let alone hear him?

hiro dished out the ultimate shaft IMO...the guy is literally buried alive for all of eternity. unless someone saw hiro bury adam or hiro himself shows up to dig him up, adam is pretty much f-ed.

also, why do people compare heroes to x-men? especially when the show is nothing like x-men whatsoever...not even in the slightest of ways. but the characters have powers like the x-men, well so does superman so i guess this show is alot like smallville then?

at first i thought this show would be really lame just like the x-men, but after watching the first few episodes, this show created its own identity, away from marvel, away from x-men, its almost completely original from my perspective.

season 2 was pretty good and left a lot to the imagination. can't wait til 2008!

Edited December 4, 2007 by do not disturb

[Sundown]

^ given the fact hes buried alive and 6 feet under, who the heck is going to free him? let alone hear him?

hiro dished out the ultimate shaft IMO...the guy is literally buried alive for all of eternity. unless someone saw hiro bury adam or hiro himself shows up to dig him up, adam is pretty much f-ed.

Adam can get out. It might even take a few years. Since he can't die, and I assume he can't suffocate and he can't starve, he's got all the time in the world to scrape through the coffin lid and dirt with a beltbuckle or something. He can even wear his fingertips to the bone scraping-- after all it'll heal in a moment. He might be in a awkward position to work and he might get trapped in the dirt at some point, but he's got eternity to figure it out.

[Dangard Ace]

Tim Kring apologizes for Chapter 2. Promises to fix in Chapter 3. THANK GOD.

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20158840,00.html

[eugimon]

I just watched the last three episodes back to back to back. God this season sucked and what was the point of it? Just to reset everything? Hopefully season 3 will be better, I don't see how it could be worse.

[EXO]

Tim Kring apologizes for Chapter 2. Promises to fix in Chapter 3. THANK GOD.

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20158840,00.html

I read that article a couple of weeks ago in the issue of EW. There's a couple of things I disagreed with. First of all I do agee that the pacing was way too slow. And also agree with establishing what was at stake early, though I'm not sure that that's too much of the problem. Sometimes you can go with the mystery of why these people are getting killed until the end and still reveal what's really at stake at the last minute.

But I don't really agree that you can't do romance on a show like this. You just got to do it right. Realize that your not doing "The Notebook" or "Moonstruck". If the romance weighs in to some degree with having powers and the complications that could arise, then yeah... it's ok. And it seems like that's what they did with Claire and Fey Flying Boy but the storyline was just cheesy and repetitive. Didn't we already go thru the whole "I'm an outsider even though I look good in a cheerleading outfit" with Claire last season? Why do it again. How about pushing forward with the character and showing what decisions she makes now that she knows what she is?

I don't' believe that Hiro was in Medieval japan too long... I do believe that he was there too long and didn't really do anything... first we got some lame Cyrano De Bergerac story with the ugliest princess. Is it that hard to find a cute asian chick nowadays? And Hiro was in Japan, the best place to learn how to be a great samurai and he ends up babysitting some spoiled Gaijin. I think there was an obvious storyline there somewhere but they were afraid it was too obvious and went with nothing better.

Again, I dont think they introduced the new characters the wrong way... theyjust didn't do anything with them... everytime we saw the plague siblings it was the same thing over and over... "Don't make me angry... you won't like me when I'm angry" OK. We get it... she's dangerous. Then it becomes a road trip with Sylar... now you got 3 people just sitting it the car... Awesome? or useless.

I don't care if the Heroes barely cross... it's even better because when they do meet, it becomes a special event.

I remember the first time Peter and Hiro met up in the subway... it made my skin crawl... ingenius! When Parkman and Jessica were shooting at each other and Parkman thought Nikki had a partner. Even when Peter first learned that his brother was the one that can fly... it was unexpected. A genuine surprise. Each scene pushed the story forward and complete opposite of what Chapter 2 was.

I made myself watch this season because I loved the first season so much... I hope they make it up to me with Chapter 3 or else I'm skipping it and I'm just going to watch Journeyman.

[David Hingtgen]

Has anything really changed that we need to re-comment on the article? We've already had this discussion, and recently.

http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?s=&a...st&p=529129

[EXO]

I purposely avoided this thread while I caught up with the series...

[David Hingtgen]

::blames EXO for digging up old discussion::

[eugimon]

Adam can get out. It might even take a few years. Since he can't die, and I assume he can't suffocate and he can't starve, he's got all the time in the world to scrape through the coffin lid and dirt with a beltbuckle or something. He can even wear his fingertips to the bone scraping-- after all it'll heal in a moment. He might be in a awkward position to work and he might get trapped in the dirt at some point, but he's got eternity to figure it out.

I would assume the laws of thermodynamics would still apply to adam and claire, their cells would still need to get energy in order to function.

Edited December 5, 2007 by eugimon

[David Hingtgen]

Gross but relevant:

Once, Wolverine was trapped in a glacier. For 6 months (until it melted enough to free him) he'd eat off some of his own flesh from his arm. It'd grow back overnight, then he'd eat some more arm meat the next day.

There could be plenty of discussion over consevation of energy, and if he could actually "come out ahead" energy-wise from eating what he'd just expended energy to regrow.

Of course, Wolverine has also regenerated from being blasted down to a skeleton, from which there's no way he had enough food/energy remaining to sustain the regrowth of that much tissue.

Part of this was explained by mutant powers simply drawing from "an unknown source", independent of their "host". Thus, Storm doesn't expend massive calories calling forth gigawatts of lightning, etc.

[kalvasflam]

Part of this was explained by mutant powers simply drawing from "an unknown source", independent of their "host". Thus, Storm doesn't expend massive calories calling forth gigawatts of lightning, etc.

Ha ha, that's funny, if Storm really did that, she'd be a 800 pounder, and would have to keep eating to keep up her metabolism.

[eugimon]

Gross but relevant:

Once, Wolverine was trapped in a glacier. For 6 months (until it melted enough to free him) he'd eat off some of his own flesh from his arm. It'd grow back overnight, then he'd eat some more arm meat the next day.

There could be plenty of discussion over consevation of energy, and if he could actually "come out ahead" energy-wise from eating what he'd just expended energy to regrow.

Of course, Wolverine has also regenerated from being blasted down to a skeleton, from which there's no way he had enough food/energy remaining to sustain the regrowth of that much tissue.

Part of this was explained by mutant powers simply drawing from "an unknown source", independent of their "host". Thus, Storm doesn't expend massive calories calling forth gigawatts of lightning, etc.

I guess, once upon a time, i had hoped that heroes would pay attention to stuff like that.

[justvinnie]

I guess, once upon a time, i had hoped that heroes would pay attention to stuff like that.

So did I. TK is way too powerful in this show. It's probably stronger than Nikki's super strength which is why Peter didn't use it to rip the vault apart, right? Seriously, they need to learn that EXTREME super powers ain't cool and that there needs to be a cap. How the hell did Peter generate the massive amount of energy for a nuclear detonation?

vinnie