300 the Movie thread

[wolfx]

Just seen it! OMG this show is awesome beyond awesome! I've not read Frank Miller's graphic novel so bear this in mind when reading the review.

The show isn't 100% historically correct, but entertainment value it delivers! Really nice action choregraphy. Some people complained about the backdrops which look too "unreal" but to me , the sepia-ish backgrounds serve its purpose. It truly feels like an epic battle.

Me being from Malaysia which has its R movies censored (yeah its stupid, tell me about it) was fortunate enough to catch it in almost all its glory. The only parts cut out were some snippets of naked oracle and the love scene between Leonidas and his wife. Not too important.

And i just love Leonidas' sarcastic remarks. Haha. Not Greekish i'm sure, but they were funny. (although i felt that i was the only one laughing in the cinema....)

Great show! Highly recommended.

[Mr March]

Going to see it this weekend. Good to hear it's worth watching.

[Limbo]

What's up with the mutants / cave-troll like creatures? I read the novel ages ago but I'm sure there was no big fat blob dude with knifes for hands...

[azrael]

Thread name change. This is now the official thread for the movie.

The show isn't 100% historically correct, but entertainment value it delivers!

Well, they are missing about 700 Thespians who fought with the Spartans, but the rest is just an artistic license.

[doodler7]

Geez, you guys are a tough crowd.

Everyone looking for real facts on this movie, forget it, it's Hollywood...based on a graphic Novel. Frank Miller!

Those of you seeking ultra realistic special effects, forget it. You're the wrong crowd for this movie.

The special effects are wonderful and great...use of colors etc...most of the frames on the trailer are like Frazetta paintings...and I think that is what they're trying to achive. Like Sin City...the movie did great to capture Miller's art; looking like panels off the graphic novels.

And for those weird creatures...I think they're the Immortals.

So if you want historical facts and storyline, go visit the the History or Discovery channels/websites.

Like Wolfx says, you watch this movie to be entertained. I think fellow artists, comic fans and and sci-fi peeps will enjoy this movie.

[Mr March]

Can't speak for anyone else, but I know what I'm getting into (probably better than most at the risk of sounding a little arrogant). It's going to be a lot of over-the-top violence and highly stylized, using the tale of an ancient battle for little more than window dressing and a bit of historical gravitas.

And it's gonna be great...I hope

Edited March 8, 2007 by Mr March

[bsu legato]

I'm seeing the 7:30 show tomorrow night. I'm so pumped that I feel like punching the first Persian I find right square in the face. "Go back to Persepolis, ya homo!"

[Skullsixx]

Can't speak for anyone else, but I know what I'm getting into (probably better than most at the risk of sounding a little arrogant). It's going to be a lot of over-the-top violence and highly stylized, using the tale of an ancient battle for little more than window dressing and a bit of historical gravitas.

And it's gonna be great...I hope

My feelings exactly!!! I admit at first I really wasn't excited about it. I hated Sin City and I'm very weary of all Comic Book Films with the exception of the Spiderman films and Superman Returns. I've been that way since I endured those sorry ass Batman films of the late 80's and early 90's. As far as 300, I kinda felt (and still do a little) that the CG backgrounds are limiting the scale to the point of making me feel while watching that everything is obviously on a soundstage. The more I saw of this film, the more I was intrigued. I even went out a month ago and bought the graphic novel to compare how close the film and book are. I will admit I'm looking forward to it now and hoping it exceeds my expectations.

Edited March 8, 2007 by Skullsixx

[wolfx]

Thread name change. This is now the official thread for the movie.

Well, they are missing about 700 Thespians who fought with the Spartans, but the rest is just an artistic license.

They were there in the movie. When the Spartan army met up with the Thespians on the way to Thermopylae, the Thespian leader expressed dismay over Leonidas' miniscule army. Much hilarity ensued.

Just to add, there were certain parts where the traitor Ephleateas however u spell that, looked like Yellow Bastard.

[the white drew carey]

Personally, I have much faith in this movie. I'm in the same boat as Mr March in that I am expecting this movie to be just like the comic: A highly-stylized and extreme fictionalization of a real historic event.

What I would be excited to see is a "recommeneded reading" listing at the end of the movie, just like at the end of the comic.

[Max Jenius]

I just want to know if that main dude will ever speak a line that isn't yelling. I don't want to watch some guy yell for 2 hours.

[Uxi]

I thought Flyboys was a pretty good movie (I got the Blu-ray just for the 'biplane pr0n' ) but was pleasantly surprised that the plot wasn't as vapid as I was expecting. The whole romance angle was a waste, but I enjoyed the rest very much.

300 looks like it'll be great. I'm taking the day off and catching an IMAX showing tomorrow afternoon.

[wolfx]

I thought Flyboys was a pretty good movie (I got the Blu-ray just for the 'biplane pr0n' ) but was pleasantly surprised that the plot wasn't as vapid as I was expecting. The whole romance angle was a waste, but I enjoyed the rest very much.

300 looks like it'll be great. I'm taking the day off and catching an IMAX showing tomorrow afternoon.

I didn't like Flyboys. It felt too blatantly "American". Americans save the day once again! Woohoo the french are idiots but the Americans win against surmountable odds! Ooh and lets not forget the hero must always have a love interest! Then they did some pitiful amount of character development for everyone in the squadron so you're supposed to feel sorry that some of them died? Pffft.....not in the least.

300 isn't safe from the trappings of Hollywood but isn't so blatant so its all fine and good.

[Ladic]

300 was amazing

[Warmaker]

I'm giving this movie a try next weekend. I'm all busy this coming one.

I know quite well the actual history of Thermopylae and the events leading into it. I also read Frank Miller's "300" comic. The comic stayed pretty faithful in the big flow of events.

I know Hollywood will do its Hollywood thing and take some liberties. But Frank Miller's stuff has been on a roll as of late, and I'll give this movie a try also.

[Shmitty]

Comepletely, and without hesitation, I can yell down the halls of my dorm at 2:30am, that that was not madness,

IT

WAS

SPAARTAAAAA!

Holy frickin cow. That was the most epic movie I have seen in all my days. The number of times I nearly lept from my seat out of sheer amazement, the number of times I shouted in awe, the number of times I felt as the imagery took my breath away, and the number of times I felt chills run down my frame, never before in a film have so many of those events occured, in as close succession, as they did in 300.

Go see this movie. It's awesome; in a very literal sense of the word.

[the white drew carey]

I keep yelling at my wife: "Tonight... we dine... IN HELL!!!"

[HoveringCheesecake]

I have a feeling that my Rome: Total War addiction is going to fire up yet again after I see this movie. Blah.

If anyone wants to read a good book about the Thermopylae, check out "Gates of Fire". It's historical fiction, but not to the extent that 300 is.

Edited March 9, 2007 by meh_cd

[Rossi]

Expect the ultimate "guy movie" from this one...It looks great, and I think Miller's graphic novel translated very well onto the big screen (with only a few changes here and there).

If you're looking for something that is a little more historically accurate, yet still filled with interesting characters and drama, I strongly suggest reading Steven Pressfield's book, Gates of Fire. Surprislingly, this was a pretty quick read, and you really become quite attached to many of the men doomed to fall at Thermopylae. If you enjoy your history with a splash of historical fiction, and you're interested in learning more about the Spartans, you'll love it.

Last night, the History Channel actually showed a two-hour special on the battle at Thermopylae. They had reenactments, an overview of the Spartan lifestyle, and Persian vs. Greek strategy...Very interesting! But, then again, I am a teacher...Maybe I'm biased because I teach ancient civilizations to my middle school students? Could be...

[Skullsixx]

Expect the ultimate "guy movie" from this one...It looks great, and I think Miller's graphic novel translated very well onto the big screen (with only a few changes here and there).

If you're looking for something that is a little more historically accurate, yet still filled with interesting characters and drama, I strongly suggest reading Steven Pressfield's book, Gates of Fire. Surprislingly, this was a pretty quick read, and you really become quite attached to many of the men doomed to fall at Thermopylae. If you enjoy your history with a splash of historical fiction, and you're interested in learning more about the Spartans, you'll love it.

Last night, the History Channel actually showed a two-hour special on the battle at Thermopylae. They had reenactments, an overview of the Spartan lifestyle, and Persian vs. Greek strategy...Very interesting! But, then again, I am a teacher...Maybe I'm biased because I teach ancient civilizations to my middle school students? Could be...

Ya know... that's very cool to read. I hope you told your students to go see this film. I remember back in the day, my Senior year in high school to be exact, we read Le Morte D'Arthur and I absolutely loved it because I had seen Excalibur as a kid. It's always cool to visualize what your reading and it helps so much when that material already exists in some form. Now, I'm not a teacher... just a guy that digs sci-fi and fantasy. So, I commend you on your comments because it was teachers like you that opened up my mind to other forms of entertainment and learning.

Edited March 9, 2007 by Skullsixx

[Warmaker]

I read Gates of Fire by Pressfield, it's a good read on Thermopylae.

Well, I caved in. I'm going to see it in 2 or so hours with a bunch of buddies from my unit.

[KiriK]

i've read the comic already and was already impresssed by the trailers which showed a lot of scenes straight out of the graphic novel....

It was a very short comic so i wondered how they could stretch it into a full length movie, but i'm sure it'll be great to watch the pages come to life....

[Rossi]

Warmaker, I hope you enjoy it! There's no way I'll get my wife to go and see this flick with me. Looks like it's time to give my buddies a call!

Skullsixx, thank you for the kind words! Like most people, I had plenty of good teachers and bad teachers while i was growing up. I've learned how to teach and how NOT to teach from both types, if you know what I mean! I try to make my social studies and language arts classes as "user friendly" as possible. I always try to work in some strange and interesting facts about whatever topic we're covering. They love the story of Thermopylae, and I know some of them would love to see the new movie. Problem is, they're 6th-graders! No way in hell would I suggest taking these kids to such a graphic movie! I have shown them bits from the 60s movie, The 300 Spartans, but it isn't really the same...

I have heard that there was a screenplay for Gates of Fire out there. I wonder if it has been scrapped due to the release of 300? Hope not - in my opinion, it would be a terrifice movie as well.

[baronv]

Well I hope the movie was better than the actual comic, I thought the comic was pretty weak (kinda like Miller's Dark Knight Strikes Again). I did like the Sin City Comics and the movie was great. Hoping to catch this movie this weekend.

[drifand]

Just returned from a midnight screening... wow! The testosterone was spilling out from the screen to drench the entire audience!!!

Definitely entertaining, although I don't give much credence to the visual and cinematic depiction of the Persians... it was all too comic-book (yes, yes, I know...) in painting them as demonic, all mighty conquerors just waiting to be humbled.

Most of my friends agreed, it would make a great rah-rah morale booster propaganda film for our local army boys.

Other observations:

- Once in a while, a character's outline would become a bit too obvious when seen against the lush CGI landscapes. Could be better.

- Quite a few of the Persian emissaries who would harangue Leonidas to submit have accents that were too American; suddenly I was imagining the dude wearing hip-hop gear and a couple of big gold chains. Distracting.

- The deformed traitor was overdone... 'gollum' was on everyone's lips.

Edited March 9, 2007 by drifand

[Mr March]

300 (2006)

Genre: Live Action Film - Action Adventure

Heavily marketed with digitally glowing trailers in dramatic slow motion, "300" is the latest of writer Frank Miller's graphic novels to become a film. Like Robert Rodriguez did with his adaptation of Miller's graphic novel "Sin City", so does director Zack Snyder turn to virtual stages and generous digital effects to transfer the drawn page of the comic into live action. For the most part, the setting and characters of Miller's work transfer well and while the film does suffer from more than a touch of self-indulgence, the method of delivery works well for the stylized, hyper-reality of this historical retelling.

Based upon the actual historical Battle of Thermopylae in 480 B.C., "300" tells the story from the perspective of Greek King Leonidas (Gerard Butler) who leads his three hundred Spartans against the Persian army numbering in the millions. Commanding the Persian army is Xerxes (Rodrigo Santoro), decked out in jewellery and piercings, digitally giant-sized and given a suitably imposing voice. In the city of Sparta, Lenonidas' wife Queen Gorgo (Lena Headey) attempts to rally the city's loyalists (personified by Stephen McHattie) to aid her husband's brave Spartans, but must contend with the machinations of the underhanded Theron (Dominic West).

Narrated throughout with the voice of Dilios (David Wenham), the script wastes no time in setting the characters of "300." The Spartans are shown as the fiercest warriors that ever lived and Leonidas' upbringing is told with a montage of battles and solitary survival until he grows into a man. The story then begins with Persian emissaries demanding the surrender of Sparta and the Greeks. Naturally, King Leonidas refuses to surrender his city and the war begins. The film adaptation of "300" resembles more than a little "Lord of the Rings" and "Gladiator", using plentiful digital grading like the former and a score like that of the latter. However, "300"is clearly an action epic and spends more time in battle than on any other element of the story. Featuring numerous bloody brawls and countless vicious deaths, "300" is a strong action film and stays well within the genre.

Some very well choreographed and exciting battles give a good account of "300," leaving not a fan unsatisfied. Zack Snyder directs his actors well in one brutal conflict after another as the Spartans fight with spear and shield, sword and fist against hordes of enemies. Blood flows freely and limbs fly aplenty, much of which is shown in either slow motion or speed ramped to give a sense of gravity and inertia. The technique can feel excessive at times, but with so much excitement put into each scene, it's hard to ignore the visceral thrills to be had. Upping the ante for every battle, "300" takes a step even beyond the mythical and into the magical when the Spartans oppose increasingly non-human enemies more properly categorized as monsters than even the most bestial human.

Aside from the action, "300" includes some minor stories linked to the battle of Thermopylae. King Leonidis rejects a disfigured wannabe warrior named Ephialtes (Andrew Tiernan in heavy costume and makeup) who, upon feeling shunned, turns to the seductive court of Xerxes which offers the poor soul women and riches to betray the Spartans. Back in Sparta, Queen Gorgo (Lena Headey) tries her best to convince the Greeks to send aid to her husband. Neither story is all that compelling, but they do allow Snyder and Miller the chance to breakup the battles of the film and feature a bit of fan service typical of the action genre.

There can be no mistake that "300" is very over-the-top with both the use of dialogue and the attempts at drama. Sometimes these elements can make the film feel forced while at other times it's hard to go wrong with a little yelling in the face of a thousand bloodthirsty soldiers. The film functions best as an epic action piece with numerous exciting examples of ancient combat, a formula that works given the large portion of the script devoted to these scenes. The acting ranges from moving to somewhat flat, but most of the actors never break character and even deliver some truly entertaining dialogue at key moments. If there can be a major fault leveled at the film, it's taking itself ever so seriously and falling just short of the ambitiousness of the production.

Rating: 4 out of 5. Those not looking for a history lesson will find "300" a thoroughly engaging action film with plenty of thrills that will carry the viewer through some of the lesser scenes.

Edited March 10, 2007 by Mr March

[Warmaker]

** SPOILER WARNING... I guess, and a bit of History **

Firstly, I saw this movie as someone who has read alot on the history and has read the comic, so I had alot of expectations.

The movie follows the comic version of "300" for most parts but goes into things it didn't. The whole ordeal of Leonidas' wife back in Sparta and the politics wasn't touched upon at all in the comic and was ahistorical also.

The comic itself follows the general flow of history of Thermopylae well enough. But Ephialtes historically wasn't a Spartan reject, but a local from the regions of Thermopylae that sought reward.

Something I felt disappointed that was historical and was covered by the comic but not in the movie was WHY Leonidas was only able to send 300 Spartans and WHY Leonidas did what he did.

- The Spartans were very strict on tradition and the Carneian Festival that is traditionally observed came up. The Olympics also came into that period, another delay to the Greek defense. The Spartans always observed it and it prevented them from going to war. Leonidas knew that Sparta had to act or time would be wasted and the Persians would pour through into Southern & Central Greece unhindered. Leonidas did try to gain approval from the Priests & Oracle at Delphi to send Sparta into war and fight at Thermopylae. But that didn't work.

- The Oracle also said that Sparta would be destroyed if she did not give up ONE of her Kings. Yes, Sparta was traditionally ruled by TWO Kings.

- With all this in mind, Leonidas did pick out Spartans that had at least 1 son to succeed them and carry the family on, the "300." Leonidas knew the mission was a suicide since Sparta and Greece overall was hesitant to act in the face of what everyone knew was a massive Persian Army under Xerxes. Since Sparta would not deploy her Army, Leonidas could only take a very small portion of its Army to Thermopylae.

- Thermopylae at best, Leonidas knew, was a doomed battle to defeat considering the reported size of the Persian army, but the intent was a "Delaying Action." What Leonidas was hoping for was buying time for the rest of Greece to unify politically and to assemble its armies for a combined effort against Xerxes' massive Persian Army. Remember, Greece wasn't one happy Peninsula. The Ancient Greeks throughout their history put more time into fighting each other than outside powers (Stephen Pressfield's book covers this also). The Olympics were also coming about and warfare was prohibited by many.

The comic touched upon and showed that the Spartan 300 were not alone at Thermopylae.

Historically, there was maybe a grand total of 7000 Greeks at best at Thermopylae. The comic didn't really show as much, but it did show a few other Greeks, and the movie barely acknowledges other Greeks there.

The comic doesn't touch upon it too well and the movie doesn't cover the following at all: When it was discovered that the Persians discovered the mountain trail and were led there by a Greek, the defense was doomed to defeat that day. There's debate whether the other Greeks departed on Leonidas' orders or not on hearing the news. Traditionally, it is believed Leonidas, who was leading the overall defense, ordered the other Greeks to depart, choosing not to guarantee the destruction of the army. The whole point was to delay the Persians, slow them down, and make every Greek life cost the Persians dearly, all so that the rest of Greece would gain time to mount a unified defense. Losing the ENTIRE army at Thermopylae would have been wasteful, so Leonidas opted to send the majority of the army back.

Regardless of Leonidas' orders, some contingents chose to stay, namely those who's cities were closeby. The Thespians stayed and contributed more troops to the last defense than the Spartans.

Another reason that they had to remain, outside of buying time for the rest of Greece, was to cover the withdrawal of the other Greek contingents. If the Spartans withdrew or defense collapsed early, the withdrawing forces would be overtaken and attacked from there rear... the Persians did have a large cavalry force.

The movie showed immediately the Spartans were alone in the final fight. Historically, the remaining Greeks closed immediately on the Persians before the flanking Persian forces could complete the encirclement. I was disappointed there was no more extra fighting at the last stand. There was no mention at all of the Thespians at the final stand, who accounted themselves very well until death.

Something the comic had that the movie didn't was from the very beginning of the comic. It didn't start immediately with the boy in the snowy mountains with the wolf. It started right away with the 300 march towards Thermopylae. One of the younger Spartans stumbles and falls, and his captain is angered over his clumsiness as a Spartan. The Captain beats him and continues to do so. Leonidas says in a calm voice, "Enough." The Captain doesn't hear, and let's just say Leonidas does not repeat his commands Anyways, the "clumsy" Spartan was nicknamed "Stumblios," and Leonidas does mention him towards the end in the movie, but showing nothing as to how he got the name. I bet this segment was cut for the theatrical release.

Overall, the movie was entertaining. It's not the best "Sword and Sandals" movie that ever was, but it's a good flick. Chicks will definitely not be into it, just so the rest of you guys know! "300" is definitely a guy's movie.

----------

There was something said by Leonidas' wife before he departed that alot in the audience did not understand. It is the Spartan saying, "Spartan, come home with this shield or upon it."

It's a saying that Spartan mothers told their sons before they left for war. Firstly, Spartans do not retreat. If they came home, they better have their shield. If not, it was a universal Greek indication for cowardice. The shield (Hoplon), is quite heavy and is the key piece of equipment a Greek Hoplite will own. If the Hoplite is running in terror, he will throw aside his shield to lose weight and run faster. For a Spartan to do that, is unacceptable, so that's why we have "Come home with this shield."

For the "upon it portion," the dead Hoplites are traditionally carried back home on their shields, like some sort of stretcher / carrier / litter.

So a Spartan will either come back victorious and showing valor from battle (carrying home the shield). If not, then he better return home dead upon his shield.

As for the fighting style of the Greeks, the movie showed it well enough at times and completely disregarded it in others. The Greeks fought in the Phalanx formation. It is essentially a very deep, densely packed formation of Hoplites. The shield protects more the man on the holder's left, and the movie points this out with Leonidas. The Phalanx, due to the depth of the formation as well as the Hoplite equipment, was well known for the "push" it has. Alot of combat results in very close contact with units literally on top of each other. A good "push" into the enemy can disrupt the formation by breaking through all the way or splitting it at the very least. The movie showed this very well at the first contact, with both sides literally in each others' faces, trying to "push" into the opposing formation with numbers, weight, etc. In most other times, it had Greek Hoplites fighting very loosely without any formation at all.

Edited March 10, 2007 by Warmaker

[Ladic]

um, the movie DID explain why he was only able to take 300 spartans.

[promethuem5]

I wish the final stand had more action, but i just got back from 300 and it was clearly one of the most ball-grabbingly amazing action films ever made. I;m gopnna have to see it a few more times...

[Chewie]

Spectacular movie.

'Nuff said.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Ha! The Persian Immortals looked like TMNT foot soldier computer fighting game ninjas.

[Warmaker]

um, the movie DID explain why he was only able to take 300 spartans.

You're right, but the movie completely left out the Oracle's prophecy from the very same scenes:

Sparta will burn if she didn't sacrifice one of her kings.

So, I have 1 thing wrong against all the other inaccuracies & deviations from history and the comic I found.

Ha! The Persian Immortals looked like TMNT foot soldier computer fighting game ninjas.

Indeed. I groaned to myself in despair when I saw that

Edited March 10, 2007 by Warmaker

[wolfx]

Yeah....they basically changed the bits about the oracle where the whole council was bribed with gold. I guess this is more for dramatic effect to make Leonidas look good and not superstitious. Besides, the oracle scene in the 1s place was more of an unconfirmed account and can't be considered as historic fact. What she said or did could be imagined and theorised by many (if he ever met her at all) historically.

Are Arcadians = Thespians? If not I wonder why they made this change in the movie. There might be 7000 Greeks (quoting from Warmaker) that were at the battle historically, but all the legends and stories always seem to talk about 300 Spartans + 700 Thespian volunteers. Why so? Is it because they were the ones who stayed behind even after they knew they would be flanked?

And yeah they did mention why only 300 followed him. Theron and the old men forbid him to go and stated why. (The religious festival, the oracle said no...etc).

[Warmaker]

Arcadians are from the Pelopponese, Sparta's immediate neighbors to the North... and Sparta itself was far to the South on the Pelopponese. In the comic and movie, they met up and joined the Spartans early on their trip North.

Thespians come from Thespiae, which is somewhere Northeast of Corinth and West of Athens. Maybe a good . Corinth sits on the isthmus connecting the Pelopponese with the rest of Greece.

In the movie and comic, the Arcadians withdraw.

Ancient Greek Historians have said that there were far more Greeks there than just the Spartan 300 and Thespians (Herodotus is one). They give numbers ranging from 4000 to 11000.

Either range of numbers of Greeks, the ancient sources all say there were more Greeks there than just the Spartans.

2 miscellaneous Battle of Thermopylae related sites.

Wikipedia

Hoplites

Related highpoints after the Battle of Thermopylae:

- Eventually, a unified Greek defense was made.

- The combined Greek Navy, led by the maritime power, Athens, inflicted a catastrophic defeat on Xerxes' Navy at Salamis. Thermopylae was in 480 BC and Salamis occurred maybe a month after it. This defeat seriously affected Xerxes plans since his massive army required alot of supplies brought from his ships. With the naval loss, he had to take a good portion of the army far to the Northeast.

- Roughly a year later in 479 BC, the combined Greek Army fights the Persians at Plataea. This is where the comic and movie ends. The movie states 30k Greeks fighting the Persians, which is incorrect. Herodotus states 30k Hoplites and roughly 70k more Light Infantry for the Greeks. The numbers of Persians at Plataea seem to fluctuate with the historians, anywhere between just more than the Greeks or even x3 their numbers. Regardless, it was a total victory for Greece and Persia was eventually kicked out.

After Xerxes' failed campaign in Greece, Persia historically never did anything significant. No major campaigns of conquest, just putting down revolts or whatnot.

Persia however remained strong enough to interfere with Greek "politics," i.e. Greeks killing Greeks.

It stayed this way for a while until 334 BC when some guy named "Alexander the Great" came knocking at Persia's door.

Edit to add: Most Lethal Battles In World History

Edited March 10, 2007 by Warmaker

[promethuem5]

Hey, thanks for the overview of the aftermath... and am I the only one who thinks that 'some guy' named Alex would make a great followup in this style, both comic and movie?