So we've got a fair share of various model companies out there.

[Spatula]

As luck would have it, today while I was waiting for my new prescription of eye glasses, I decided to take the hour of wait time and head down to the hobby shop. It's been a while since I've been to this one (PM hobby and craft, for those of you who live where I live, on 32nd ave in Calgary), but I just wanted to see what they had in stock.

I've already had more than enough projects (READ: Macross/Patlabor kits) to work on, but I was just starving for something real this time, that is, models of real military hardware in todays day and age. It's been forever and a day since my last "real life" kit, so I didn't want to get any thing expensive. It's funny how I've only worked with Bandai and Hasegawa kits for Macross, and a Wave kit for the Tachikoma, and really haven't had much exposure to other companies.

So here's a very very small list of manufacturers I just happened to take note of:

Academy Models

Trumpeter

Revell

Hasegawa

Italeri

Tamiya

At any rate, I managed to spot a F-14D (you can stop rolling your eyes now) from Revell. It's a 1/48 kit and was selling for $20, so why not pick it up? When I opened up the box, god, was this modeling for dummies? A total turn about in difficulty that I'm used to from the VF-1 Strike Valk I'm working on right now. No wonder they say this is for 10 year olds. LOL, well time will tell when I'm finished with my Valk.

http://www.revell.com/catalog/products/1_4...mcat-586-7.html

I guess I bought this out of pure nostagia. I remember my dad and I working on the F-14A kit when I was like 7 years old. What was this.... a good decade and a half ago? This time I want to do it all by myself (LOL, daddy can I try??? LOL)

At any rate, I'm not too sure how the quality is like for Trumpeter (MADE IN CHINA) and Academy (MADE IN KOREA). Perhaps whenever I think of especially China, I think of well, cheap quality. Things from South Korea are picking up in quality, especially how I love Samsung products now. I personally find Revell's quality a bit shakey, perhaps its in the molding where I don't see as much details as say, a Tamiya kit of the same model and scale, but maybe I'm looking in the wrong places.

In this thread, just tell me what you think of these companies, as I'm interested in the military jet fighters (not really a tank person now), and their pros and cons.

[David Hingtgen]

Military fighter jets kits? I can talk a long time about those. Here are my opinions:

Academy: High *quality*. Accuracy is something to watch for. Some are excellent, some good, some suck.

Trumpeter. Exact same comments as Academy. Just FYI, Academy and Trumpeter are the main reason every other company is scrambling to catch up nowadays---model companies have been VERY stagnant the past 20 years. Then Trumpeter and Academy show up on the scene with high-quality kits cheaper than most everything else. Hase and Tami are still at the top for the most part, but the gap closed a lot.

Revell--most of it sucks IMHO, but the new stuff is very good. The 1/48 F-15E is very, very good. Same for 1/48 F-18E. And the only actual F-15E, period.

Hasegawa---even the old stuff is better than most company's new stuff. Price has exploded upwards lately, for no apparent reason. Watch for "decal" boxings---the $8 and $28 F-18 kits are EXACTLY the same. One just has VFA-195's 1998 markings, and the other has VFA-195's 2001 markings. You're paying 20 bucks for the decals alone, when after market decals are twice as good and half the price.

Italeri. AKA what Testor's reboxes and sells as their own. Decent all around, though their 1/48 F-14 is to be avoided. Also makes the best YF-23.

Tamiya. Best fit and quality, period. Just low selection of subjects.

The thing is, a lot depends on the KIT, not the company. Even scale can make a significant difference, for the same subject from the same company.

For models, accuracy outranks most everything else IMHO--that's why they're model kits and not diecast pre-painted. If it's plastic and I build it myself, I expect it to be right. FYI, no F-14B/D other than Hasegawa is correct. Revell's closer than most, but they did a "just plain stupid" mistake.

Honestly it's a lot easier if you specifically say what you want a model of, and in what scale. Then I can help even more.

But first, go here: http://www.modelingmadness.com/

Left column, kit previews, and kit reviews. That's most every kit out there.

[anime52k8]

Of the companies I've built kits from I would rank them in this order.

Academy: some of the highest quality I've seen. lots of detail I couldn't tell you how acurate they are but at least it looks good.

Hasegawa: a little cheaper, but still amazingly detailed.

Tamiya: love their car models and their jets are very nice.

Revell: so so. For as cheap as they are their good kits, but they aren't as detailed as the kits above. Fit and finish can also be iffy.

Italeri: if you want something small and cheap that you can slap together in a couple days, this is for you. They have minimal detail but they do have some cool subject matter.

Testors: I love their paints but avoid their kits like the plague. Basically for the same price you can get any of their kits form Revell with about twice the detail and gimmicks and the parts will fit better.

Airfix: HAHAHAHAHAHA!! I can't believe it took them this long to go bankrupt.

edit: let it be known I don't know how acurate any of these things are. personaly I don't care as long as it looks good.

Edited September 13, 2006 by anime52k8

[deadghost]

Bandi I hate bandi I bought and painted a vf-19 variable, did a nice paint job but the kit just sunkd

[Maxtype]

Military fighter jets kits? I can talk a long time about those. Here are my opinions:

Academy: High *quality*. Accuracy is something to watch for. Some are excellent, some good, some suck.

Trumpeter. Exact same comments as Academy. Just FYI, Academy and Trumpeter are the main reason every other company is scrambling to catch up nowadays---model companies have been VERY stagnant the past 20 years. Then Trumpeter and Academy show up on the scene with high-quality kits cheaper than most everything else. Hase and Tami are still at the top for the most part, but the gap closed a lot.

Revell--most of it sucks IMHO, but the new stuff is very good. The 1/48 F-15E is very, very good. Same for 1/48 F-18E. And the only actual F-15E, period.

Hasegawa---even the old stuff is better than most company's new stuff. Price has exploded upwards lately, for no apparent reason. Watch for "decal" boxings---the $8 and $28 F-18 kits are EXACTLY the same. One just has VFA-195's 1998 markings, and the other has VFA-195's 2001 markings. You're paying 20 bucks for the decals alone, when after market decals are twice as good and half the price.

Italeri. AKA what Testor's reboxes and sells as their own. Decent all around, though their 1/48 F-14 is to be avoided. Also makes the best YF-23.

Tamiya. Best fit and quality, period. Just low selection of subjects.

The thing is, a lot depends on the KIT, not the company. Even scale can make a significant difference, for the same subject from the same company.

For models, accuracy outranks most everything else IMHO--that's why they're model kits and not diecast pre-painted. If it's plastic and I build it myself, I expect it to be right. FYI, no F-14B/D other than Hasegawa is correct. Revell's closer than most, but they did a "just plain stupid" mistake.

Honestly it's a lot easier if you specifically say what you want a model of, and in what scale. Then I can help even more.

But first, go here: http://www.modelingmadness.com/

Left column, kit previews, and kit reviews. That's most every kit out there.

I agree with most of these opinions.Some of the price differences between companies is due to "most favored Nation Trading Status"for China(Trumpeter and Dragon)and taiwan(AFV Club)and Korea(Academy).Japanese kits seem to be hit with some kind of tariff.Hasegawa kits are now distributed in the USA by Dragon so the prices seem to be coming down.Tamiya put there domestic factory/warehouse in Marin County,CA-very ritzy developments and housing-and seem to be charging us to pay the higher rent.Why they didn't put the warehouse in Oakland .

[MechTech]

I agree with most of Dave's comments. On another note, Revell Germany is TOTALLY different than Revell USA. I've got two 1/144 helo's from them (Chinook and NH-90). They have everything including the screw holes represented! Excellent engraving too. I just bought the awesome/newly released AN-124. It's got a seperate interior from the outer skin!

Unfortuneately there are few companies that you can buy from and get an "ace" every time. Another reason I scratch build or modify so many things! - MT

[honneamise]

Revell Germany is indeed completely different from Revell USA; while the USA stuff are usually reissues of older Revell and Monogram models, Revell Germany is even more of a mixed bag. Their line consists of

-reissues of older (sometimes VERY old) kits from Revell

-reissues of older kits from other sources like Monogram, Lindberg, Heller, Italeri, several Eastern European companies, even some Pyro and Frog stuff

-shared molds with Italeri

-lately lots of good quality Hasegawa stuff with Revell decals and instructions

-Revell´s own new kits: these range from excellent to poor - they all look like the newest Hasegawa stuff but sometimes they screw it up: The 1/48 Catalina´s tail is far too thick, their He-111 has swept-back inner wings, their new 1/72 Spitfire is missing the "gull wing" shape, their new 1/144 F-18 Hornet has a neat detailed cockpit but the scale is 1/144 in width and 1/120 in length - some of the folks there seem to have problems reading a plan..

Another thing is that they are sometimes selling good kits and bad kits of the same subject side by side, e.g. they currently have 2 1/144 F-14s, one brandnew and with lots of details, the other one is the old Crown kit, the worst F-14 EVER. Price is the same.

Before buying a Revell Germany model, I recommend reading all available reviews first.

[scand]

The Hasegawa kits are awsome. A project last yeary was and f4u corsair. It was a really nice kit. I'd stay away from Revell. I tried and f-14 and an f-18. I ended up trashing both of those kits.

[Spatula]

Looks like I'll see into Academy the next time I get my next kit. Is $30 CDN for a 1/48 Academy F-15B-D okay? It's scary how much the price jumps up when you get into the 1/32 scale. It gets about "Perfect Grade" price level, so that's sorta nerve wracking.

I'd stay away from Revell. I tried and f-14 and an f-18. I ended up trashing both of those kits.

You mean...garbage trash? Or just salvaged it for spare parts? Ouch either way...

[TSP]

I still miss some important things. Avoid the small scale (1/144-1/100) Minicraft,Acadamy,Hobbycraft kits.Sorry but on this sector Acadamy sure sucks .

Don"t buy anything from MHM models! Kangam low in price, quallity, designs and tooling.

Hasegawa and Revell Germany have a colaboration. Some of the Revell kits are Hasegawa re-releases for even a lower price. Same goes for some new Hasegawa kits which actually are Revell mouldings. The same goes to Zvesda/Italeri/Revell

Also recommendable are brands like: Eduard ,Sweet, Platz/Bego

If you like carmodels than: Aoshima, Fujimi,

For all those who live in Europe Aviation Megastore This is the place where I like to die.

[David Hingtgen]

If you want a cheap 1/48 F-15, get either the Revell F-15E, or the Monogram kit. Yes, Monogram. Their F-15 is well known as still being the best-shaped F-15 out there, and better fit and detail than most any other Monogram kit. And the Revell F-15E is their best kit ever, and possibly the best F-15 out there period.

The Academy one is decent, but nothing remarkable AFAIK. Hasegawa is a perennial choice, though difficult to get one that'll represent a post-1979 one.

In 1/72, Hase is the easy choice.

[TSP]

The Hasegawa kits are awsome. A project last yeary was and f4u corsair. It was a really nice kit. I'd stay away from Revell. I tried and f-14 and an f-18. I ended up trashing both of those kits.

The old 1/144-1/32 Revell kits are just gaps filler or a nice waste of time.

Revells new Black F-14 Tomcat and F/A-18C Hornet are the best detailed kits in 1/144 scale. I'm still impressed of their E-2 Hawkeye,Raffale M and the new ECR Tornado in 1/144. Highly detailed. The only thing missing are photo-etched parts

If you want a cheap 1/48 F-15, get either the Revell F-15E, or the Monogram kit. Yes, Monogram. Their F-15 is well known as still being the best-shaped F-15 out there, and better fit and detail than most any other Monogram kit. And the Revell F-15E is their best kit ever, and possibly the best F-15 out there period.

The Academy one is decent, but nothing remarkable AFAIK.

I got myself an Academy F-15. It was a great kit back in the early 90's. Now it's a perfect target for the Su-27UB Flanker.

Does the Verlinden detailsets fit on Revells F-15E?

[David Hingtgen]

Don't know, my modeling priority is the EXTERIOR of the plane, and 99% of aftermarket stuff is cockpit details.

[Spatula]

Guys, I'm going 1/48 and up. I don't like the smallness of the 1/72, which my Macpla offers me more than enough of "smallnes", so 1/48 is a nice size. Would you care to post the box art for the F-15E by Revell? Are the Germany Revell kits the one with the blue box with light blue horizontal lines in it and like 6 different languages written all over the box? LOL that might be the one, cause in Americaland, they only speak American.

EDIT:

Hey guys. is this the one you're talking about? It looks pretty nice with the tiger scheme going on.

Edited September 14, 2006 by Spatula

[David Hingtgen]

It's all the same mold. The Revell *Germany* one simply costs twice as much. And has Tiger Meet decals. There's no shortage of 1/48 F-15E aftermarket decals--if it existed, you can buy it.

Also, the weapons included vary. The basic US release is the cheapest, but also has no bombs--I personally have it and am 3/4 done.

The German release is the same as the basic US one from what I can see, just different decals. Only the Monogram Pro-Modeler one has any bombs.

Here you can see the box art of the US releases: http://www.f-15estrikeeagle.com/reviews/reviews_kits.htm The one I have is the middle one of the three 1/48 kits.

Main thing will be weapons--most people want to load an F-15E with as many bombs as it can physically hold---and no kit includes very many bombs. If you want a full load, you'll have to buy some. http://www.f-15estrikeeagle.com has lots of info on real loads, etc, or you can always just ask me for suggestions. If you really want to warp people's minds, load it out for pure air-to-air combat. I have a pic of one like that.

[Spatula]

So I'm guessing at one point Revell and Monogram merged but then divorced? I keep seeing them together and then seperated from time to time. LOL SquareEnix.

[David Hingtgen]

It's all just marketing. Monogram hasn't actually made a new kit/mold in decades AFAIK, they just use the name in the US to sell Revell's molds. And in Germany, Revell's name is often used to sell Hasegawa molds.

[Spatula]

Alright, a bit confusing as it is, but I guess I'll just ask here before buying the kit.

Me reading this is like "NAH, IT'S JUST SONY RELEASING SOME GAMES FOR THE "GAMEBOX 360" which REALLY is from Nintendo".

LOL, I relate almost anything to video games.

[David Hingtgen]

Think of it like publisher, vs developer. Whose logo is most prominently displayed? Who actually worked on it? Who funded it, and who got interviewed about it?

Then assume when it goes overseas that yet another company takes care of localization and marketing.

[Spatula]

One thing I've done with most of the macross kits is done a lot of artistic licensing. I'm not really a stickler for dead on markings and accuracy. This has gotten me somewhat more minded about modeling for actual fighter jets now. What if I like a paint scheme but it's not used by a certain squadron or wing or what have you? What if I want to make up my own ficitious squad or even copy pasta from another source, say, Ace Combat? What if I wanted a desert scheme for my F-14D which is with the VF-34s? What if I wanted a few tiger stripes on my F-14 and made up VF-300 or something like that. Is this allowed?

Edited September 14, 2006 by Spatula

[David Hingtgen]

?? Allowed? It's your model, do what you want. There's entire boards devoted to "fictional" modeling, from USAF F-14's to Klingon Camaro Z28's...

[Spatula]

I guess. Yeah. I've seen an A-wing with Marine Corps markings, at first I was ..meh...and now, I'm still quite meh to it.

What if I don't like the name of the pilot? I guess I could just open up MS word and get out some decal paper....

[MechTech]

It's not confusing. In the early 90's Ford couldn't build a reliable minivan so they bought the Nissan quest (called the Mercury Villager now). I've got one. It's got Ford and Nissan stamped on all the parts!

Moral of the story, you gotta look in the box. Imai isn't known for they're accuracy, but I've got a 1/144 F-20 Tigershark that has great detail and accuracy. The weapons weere excellent too (often overlooked - especially in 1/144)! - MT

[Penguin]

Another manufacturer to avoid like the plague: Hobbycraft. I really wanted to do a 1/48 diorama of the CT-114 Tutor (i.e. Canadian Snowbirds) for my Dad's birthday a couple years back (since he grew up in Moose Jaw, Sask, where they're based). Unfortunately, Hobbycraft (or Hobbycrap as my limited imagination has renamed it) is the only manufacturer of the Tutor I could find. It took every iota of my admittedly average skills to get it looking decent. Took so long the diorama devolved into "in a field with muddy tracks behind it". I swore to never touch Hobbycraft again... until my brother roped me into helping him build their 1/72 Avro Arrow kit. Yech.

What I wouldn't give for a decent company to issue models of Canadian military aircraft. At least Hasegawa has issued Canadian markings for the CF-104 and CF-188...

Edited September 14, 2006 by Penguin

[Spatula]

Um, what's the best camouflage you can come up with for either a F-15A-D variant or F/A 18 (any 1 seater variant), using mainly the colors of white, black, and purple? This may become a project modelled after the Suigintou doll from the anime Rozen Maiden. Oh god no... I know....

[Grayson72]

Well if you're going with 1/32 scale your choices get much more limited in model companies, Trumpeter and Acadamy are doing a kick ass job with their new kits of modern aircraft. I bought the latest F-14 release from Tamiya and I'm not impressed, actually pretty pissed, it's a combination of old and new parts, some parts have recessed panel lines like the front part and then the body has raised. The fit between the two was horrible, like 1/16 of an inch off, so sanding and filling took an eternity.

Some versions of aircraft you don't even have a choice though, if you want a 1/32 A-4 you have to buy the Hasegawa with raised panel lines. The 1/32 British Tornado you have to buy from Revell and it sucks as well.

Fortunately I love to modify these kits and there's tons of add-on parts for them, the color photo etch kits from Eduard are particularly nice as are the resin detail kits from Black Box.

Edited September 14, 2006 by Grayson72

[David Hingtgen]

You want a one or two seater F-15, but only single-seat F-18's? Ok.

Purple is unknown on military craft AFAIK, I've always looked but never found it, even on demos. It's not really the national color of anybody, and doesn't camoflage against anything.

White and black generally aren't for camouflage together, one or the other, usually as belly colors. You might want to try basing off of WW2 ship disruptive camo, or WW1 dazzle camo, as they're based on high-contrast.

Basically--you've asked for the 3 colors that are never found on military planes together. I really don't think I could help much. Might be best to just totally design the scheme yourself.

[TSP]

Maybe something like this

[David Hingtgen]

That scheme always looks blue-er on my TV. (And I spend a LOT of time calibrating colors)--but screen shots always appear purplish. Of course, that color is almost the exact shade people never agree on---half say it's blue, half say it's purple.

[TSP]

Let's say it's 60%blue and 40% red.Or 70/30

[David Hingtgen]

::fiddles with RGB pallette:: Yeah, 70/30 looks like it's around the blue/purple border.

[Spatula]

Er, nevermind, scatch that idea.

[honneamise]

The problem lies in the "camouflage" term - you use camo to hide something, so you cannot use the colours with the highest possible contrast. Either you do a "show"scheme like the Minmay Guard, Thinderbirds (maybe you should go with this and just replace the red?) etc. or hou have to downplay the colours to a big degree, using light grey for white, dark grey for black and a toned-down purple - just like the F-14 that TSP posted.

I have used purple as part of a camouflage though but on a plane that never made it into service. I thought it blends pretty well with the RLM83 and 74 but only due to its limited contrast. I had mixed the purple for a Nakajima Rufe seaplane but it came out that the purple was most likely never applied so I wanted another use for it.

As for those kit brands: I agree - Hobbycraft kits frequently have fit problems, uneven detailing, bad decals etc, but most of them were made in the 80s, some of the later kits were better than the canadian Arrow, Tutor and Canuck.

What bugs me today is the status of Trumpeter as THE most favored new manufacturer: They ALWAYS get the best in-box-reviews, they look SOO good with their 1000s of parts, engraved panel lines etc. but if you really go down and check the parts against blueprints, many of their models appear to be just scaled-up kits from other manufacturers (plus panel lines but also including inaccuracies) or something in their shape is just plain wrong - ´m still not sure if they are avoiding research to save money or if they just cannot read plans . Some kits feature a parts fit that is far worse than 50s Airfix kits, sometimes the plastic quality is inconsistent. The whole Trumpeter thing is that they pretend to equal Tamiya (Chad the F-14 you have is bad luck: that´s the ONLY Tamiya 1/32 kit that still comes from the 70s, all the others are top-notch!)or Hasegawa in quality but in fact they are still far away from that except for the price. That does not mean that Trumpeter have no good kits, but if so , they were created, well... accidently.

[David Hingtgen]

That's what I meant about their accuracy---the quality of the actual plastic/moldings is undisputably good, but the raw shape of the parts and how they go together...

And everybody has a Trumpeter kit that looks amazingly like another kit they own, just in a different scale or something. Still, they are filling a niche in a lot of things.

"Hey, there's a great Hasegawa kit of the whatever in 1/48, and we've been waiting 10 years for a 1/72". Well, Trumpeter will basically copy that 1/48 kit in 1/72 like everyone wanted Hase themselves to do, change the raised panel lines to recessed, and sell a zillion. Any errors will be copied as well. But people want it, and Hase never made the 1/72 version of their own kit, so Trumpeter is happy to do it and make the money.

IMHO, Trumpeter's shape accuracies are easy to explain:

They will find the best 3-view drawing and treat is as gospel. And no drawing is perfect. And 3-views don't translate into 3D well. Trumpeter's P-51 is a great example. The pure side silhouette matches drawings very well. But all the curves and things you see at various angles--that's where it's really messed up. Also looks good from directly above. But I mean--a square sheet of paper and a cube and a skyscraper all look identical from directly above---just because it's right from one angle doesn't mean you got the 3D shape anywhere close.

Basically---they're trying to make models of things that they don't REALLY know what they look like and their research is no more than a copy of the Squadron Signal book on the subject---nice drawings, and a few gear well detail photos. They get a good 3 view, and make a 3D model from that. And the thing is---90% of reviewers and purchasers are only going to compare to those same drawings! But anyone who's actually spent some time at an airshow walking around a real P-51, and knows the full 3D shape or simply has photos at various angles---will spot the areas that are totally wrong.

Still---many "high end" manufacturers are no better. Hasegawa's new 1/48 is EXACTLY from the Squadron Signal book. Error for error. And so the Trumpeter 1/72 copy of that kit is the same. Even Tamiya's new 1/32 F-16 has flaws that are immediately visible when compared to any photo, despite them having full access to several F-16's for research and they photographed every inch.

PS--most everything above can be said for Academy, too. Their 1/32 Hornet is the greatest kit I've ever owned (not built yet, will be a while) but anyone who knows will recognize it is simply the Hasegawa 1/48 scaled up, and with additional detail. Same flaws/errors/shapes...

[MechTech]

Last I heard, Tamiya was suing Trumpeter for copying their kits. The two I heard cited in the lawsuit were the 1/72 PT-15 and 1/350 Enterprise Carrier.