About Sdfmacross 2036

[F14Tomcat]

i just went on a Mahq (sorry if you dont recommend this site )and i was wondering is this really what the valk looked like

VF-1AR

VF-1JR

VF-1SR

Edited August 14, 2006 by F14Tomcat

[the white drew carey]

Yes, those are what they really look like.

[F14Tomcat]

Yes, those are what they really look like.

425113[/snapback]

ah okay thanks whi.dre.c (the WHIte DREw Carey) just wondering if they were the real deal

[the white drew carey]

No problem.

While not considered canon, I like the direction some of these earlier games took. Mikimoto stuck around for many of the character designs which, IMHO, lent a very authentic Macross feel that some of the more recent productions lack.

[The6ftTallAZN]

For some reason those kinda remind me of the valks from macross II

[sketchley]

It's probably due to the Macross II VFs being based off of them.

If I'm not mistaken, the Macross 2036 game is part of the Macross II's past.

[MjrMisaHayase]

It's probably due to the Macross II VFs being based off of them.

If I'm not mistaken, the Macross 2036 game is part of the Macross II's past.

425140[/snapback]

So, in other words, it's considered non-canon.

[the white drew carey]

IIRC, and I may be wrong, the assumption that 2036 and ELS are part of MacII's past is based on the fans' need to put them somewhere once Kawamori knocked them out of the "official canon" when he returned to Macross with Mac+. I'm fairly sure there is actually no connection other than one conceived by the fanbase.

I believe that one of the earlier games featured a non-canon battroid (and maybe GERWALK) mode of the VF-4, simply because Kawamori hadn't shown one (if he even had it yet).

[sketchley]

I remember reading that info in a Protoculture Addicts (or was it the affiliated Mecha Press?) way back in the day, BEFORE Macross Plus/7 were even on the horizon (let alone released.) The sources used by the writers of the two magazines were always very good.

[sketchley]

Found it (gah... luv the internet. Serious memory lane road trip there.)

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catalog/prod...roducts_id=1735

Mecha Press #7. Published Jan/Feb 1993.

Given that magazines have a lead time of up to 3 months, and that Macross Plus was released on Aug. 25, 1994*, it's safe to say that at the time (and possibly even from when Macross II was cut out of the main Macross universe,) that the 2036 storyline is part of Macross II's history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macross_Plus

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%9E%E3%....BD.9C.E5.93.81

[JB0]

It's probably due to the Macross II VFs being based off of them.

If I'm not mistaken, the Macross 2036 game is part of the Macross II's past.

425140[/snapback]

So, in other words, it's considered non-canon.

425141[/snapback]

Bingo.

Game-wise, everything before VF-X is non-canon. That was where Kawamori was getting involved again. And cleaning up the continuity mess left behind when Big West was trying to exploit the license between DYRL and Plus/7 was part of that involvement.

And I think only the console games after VF-X are canon, not portable or PC games. Not sure on this one, though.

[the white drew carey]

n/Feb 1993.

Given that magazines have a lead time of up to 3 months, and that Macross Plus was released on Aug. 25, 1994*, it's safe to say that at the time (and possibly even from when Macross II was cut out of the main Macross universe,) that the 2036 storyline is part of Macross II's history.

No offense, but this is exactly the fan-based logic which lumps these games in with MacII in the first place. Simply because these games came out before Mac+ doesn't mean that they were ever intended to be part of the MacII alternate timline.

You'll need to show something with more weight behind it than assumption, Protoculture Addicts or Mecha Press.

[sketchley]

I never said it was an assumption, especially mine, and before you dismiss the magazines, I suggest that you seriously look into them (aka read it/them.) The publishers and article writers have a proven track record for accuracy with a plethora of other anime reviews and synopsises. They are also the oldest continuing to be published anime magazine in North America. That to me says something about their quality - as in they wouldn't have survived if they were not accurate.

JBO, keep in mind that there is Studio Nue (Shouji Kawamori) Macross canon, and Big West Macross canon. What's the dif? The presence of Macross II. I am not, and have never claimed that Macross 2036 is part of the Studio Nue canon. I fully agree that in that sense, it is not canon. However, in the Macross II canon, it is. There are a number of things in Macross II that were developed directly from, or based on ideas in the game. In fact, beyond the similarity in VF motif, you could even claim that the enemy's mecha are similar or outgrowths of those present in the Neld invasion fleet.

Also, if you want to be picky, you could even say that VF-X (1) is non-canon as well. There is a DYRL style attack on Earth, which isn't mentioned in later games (specifically VF-X2.) Shouji Kawamori's involvement in VF-X may have been very, very limited - as in providing the battroid and gerwalk of the VF-4, and the Pheyos Valkyrie only. (If you play the game, you'll notice some big mistakes - such as the gun pod of the VF-17 being mounted externally on the top in fighter mode. Also, the abscence, or should I say lack of Kazutaka Miyatake's stealth carrier from the game from his "Design Works: Macross and Orguss" does say volumes.)

Edited August 15, 2006 by sketchley

[sketchley]

Also, just for the fun of it, I did a search on Macross 2036 and how it relates to Macross II, and I got the following:

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%B6%85%E6%...83%BC%E3%83%A0)

Specifically:

超時空è¦å¡žãƒžã‚¯ãƒ­ã‚¹2036 （PCエンジン）

1992å¹´4月発売。メサイア（日本コンピュータシステム）。CD-ROMã€7400円。

横スクロールシューティング。åŒå¹´åˆ¶ä½œã•ã‚ŒãŸã‚¢ãƒ‹ãƒ¡ã€Žè¶…時空è¦å¡žãƒžã‚¯ãƒ­ã‚¹II -LOVERS AGAIN-ã€ã®é–¢é€£ä¼ç”»ã§ã€å…±é€šã®ãƒ‘ラレルワールド的設定をもã¤ã€‚2036å¹´ã€åœ°çƒã¸ã®å¾©è®ã‚’ä¼ã‚€ã‚«ãƒ ã‚¸ãƒ³ä¸€æ´¾ã¯ãƒŒã‚§ãƒ«ãƒ‰åŸºå¹¹è‰¦éšŠã‚’呼ã³å¯„ã›ã€ãƒžã‚¯ã‚·ãƒŸãƒªã‚¢ãƒ³ãƒ»ã‚¸ãƒ¼ãƒŠã‚¹ã€ãƒŸãƒªã‚¢ãƒ»ãƒ•ã‚¡ãƒªãƒ¼ãƒŠãƒ»ã‚¸ãƒ¼ãƒŠã‚¹å¤«å¦»ã®é•·å¥³ã‚³ãƒŸãƒªã‚¢ãƒ»ãƒžãƒªã‚¢ãŒå‡ºæ’ƒã™ã‚‹ã€‚オリジナル機体VF-1SR（VF-1Sã®æ”¹è‰¯åž‹ï¼‰ãŒç™»å ´ã™ã‚‹ã€‚

[JB0]

JBO, keep in mind that there is Studio Nue (Shouji Kawamori) Macross canon, and Big West Macross canon.  What's the dif?  The presence of Macross II.

I didn't know Big West had a cohesive canon.

I thought it was more along the lines of Star Trek, in the sense that they did whatever looked cool and to heck with continuity.

It DOES make me more interested in the plot of the older games if they actually tie together cohesively.

  I am not, and have never claimed that Macross 2036 is part of the Studio Nue canon. 

I didn't say you did. Didn't mean to imply it either.

I was just confirming that 2036 wasn't a part of the Studio Nue timeline, which is usually what non-canon means.

Also, if you want to be picky, you could even say that VF-X (1) is non-canon as well.  There is a DYRL style attack on Earth, which isn't mentioned in later games (specifically VF-X2.)  Shouji Kawamori's involvement in VF-X may have been very, very limited - as in providing the battroid and gerwalk of the VF-4, and the Pheyos Valkyrie only.  (If you play the game, you'll notice some big mistakes - such as the gun pod of the VF-17 being mounted externally on the top in fighter mode.  Also, the abscence, or should I say lack of Kazutaka Miyatake's stealth carrier from the game from his "Design Works: Macross and Orguss" does say volumes.)

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I wasn't sure about VF-X1, honestly. I gave it the benefit of the doubt.

[the white drew carey]

I didn't know Big West had a cohesive canon.

I thought it was more along the lines of Star Trek, in the sense that they did whatever looked cool and to heck with continuity.

It DOES make me more interested in the plot of the older games if they actually tie together cohesively.

There was a thread about these games back on the old board. IIRC, someone with a little bit of knowledge and some good japanese skills figured some of it out.

I think it came down to developer-based continuity, with BigWest not really giving a damn (kind of how Harmony Gold was blindly licensing rights to RT in the mid 90's to every comic company who wanted to do something with it, leading to a whole slew of non-canon RT stories [i know, I know... non-canon RT... ]).

I believe that it was determined for the PC-98/NEC PC that Macross: Remember Me and Macross: Skull Leader are within the same continuity. By the same developer, they have the same game style and interface design. It's also possible that Macross: Love Stories is also related, although it seems to be a different type of game (IIRC, it's also a dating-sim as well as a combat-sim).

Of course, we know that Macross 2036 and Macross: Eternal Love Song follow the same continuity. Both were done by Masiya (sp?) and both feature the 'R' variants upon which this threads origins lie (in fact, I think it is ELS which features the first 3-mode version of the VF-4, but I can't find any screencaps of it).

Now that I remember that older thread, I believe another point against the connection between 2036/ELS and MacII is that MacII does not allow for Flashback 2012, in that the VF-4 was never a created in the MacII storyline, whereas it does exist in the 2036/ELS storyline.

[TheLoneWolf]

You're absolutely right, it was Yoshi who posted all that material on the PC Engine games. I too was surprised when he stated that 2036 and ELS are not within the same universe as MacII. The existance of a playable VF-4 is ELS (which takes place in 2037) contradicts the existance of the VF-2 in MacII (which takes place in 2080).

Man I wish I had saved his post. He even posted screenshots of the VF-4 equipped with FAST Packs.

[MjrMisaHayase]

You're absolutely right, it was Yoshi who posted all that material on the PC Engine games.  I too was surprised when he stated that 2036 and ELS are not within the same universe as MacII.  The existance of a playable VF-4 is ELS (which takes place in 2037) contradicts the existance of the VF-2 in MacII (which takes place in 2080).

Man I wish I had saved his post.  He even posted screenshots of the VF-4 equipped with FAST Packs. 

425877[/snapback]

I might as well download a TurboGraphx16/PC Engine emulator and then go searching for Macross 2036 and ELS ISOs.

And this is from someone who vowed to never use emulation ever again. At least my computer's still stable after using a few emulators.

[the white drew carey]

You're absolutely right, it was Yoshi who posted all that material on the PC Engine games.  I too was surprised when he stated that 2036 and ELS are not within the same universe as MacII.  The existance of a playable VF-4 is ELS (which takes place in 2037) contradicts the existance of the VF-2 in MacII (which takes place in 2080).

Man I wish I had saved his post.  He even posted screenshots of the VF-4 equipped with FAST Packs. 

425877[/snapback]

A put a PM out to yellowlightman to see if he could scan the ELS manual for me. We discussed doing it back in '04 when roycommi was doing a flash version of ELS and I was updating the graphics, but that whole project kind of petered out.

I remember that thread because it was the images there which inspired me to draw this:

[TheLoneWolf]

Awesome sketch!

The ELS manual doesn't show the FAST Pack equipped VF-4, it just shows the standard VF-4 in fighter mode. Sadly, the ELS manual lacks any significant original art, most of it from 2036. The only images of the FP VF-4 are from the cut-scenes within the game, and your sketch comes pretty close to what it looked like.

[Ginrai]

How do you guys know the VF-4 does not exist in the DYRL -> Macross II timeline? As has been stated a jillion times, the numbers do not need to go in the order the plane's creation. The argument "omg VF-2 follows VF-1" also loses a lot of steam when you realize the VF-2JA and the VF-2SS are totally different fighters.

[the white drew carey]

At no point did I 'omg chickenbutt double-down'. I know very well that military equipment is not designated in an ascending numerical order.

Everything I've understood from Macross II, UN Spacy was complacent the whole time, and that the VF-2 series is the first replacement ever for the VF-1. That's basically the whole premise that the story is based on.

[Ginrai]

I disagree. You can still be complacent and lazy and develop four or five mecha in EIGHTY YEARS.

[JB0]

I disagree. You can still be complacent and lazy and develop four or five mecha in EIGHTY YEARS.

425969[/snapback]

You can also be complacent and lazy and develop nothing at all.

It DOES seem more plausable that they developed many and then dropped back to F-2. But that's less fun than terminal apathy.

[the white drew carey]

I disagree. You can still be complacent and lazy and develop four or five mecha in EIGHTY YEARS.

425969[/snapback]

That's what any rational person would think, but it's not the premise to MacII. In fact, the very point you've made is one of the main reasons I dislike MacII- In the story, they were so complacent that they never developed more advanced fighters until the VF-2 series nearly 80 years later.

MacII is almost completely different from SK's version. Instead of massive genetic cloning programs and extensive interstellar colonization missions, MacII's UN Spacy just hangs around Earth and tries to rebuild there. That's what I took from the story.

[sketchley]

Sticking strictly to the VFs...

One way to look at it is that after SWI, other VFs were developed (Hikaru is seen with a VF-4x (?) on his desk or in his hands in the movie,) but due to extensive combat data and the 'it ain't broke, why fix it,' logic, the VF-1 with FAST packs remained the prime space interceptor fighter.

It was modified (or upgraded, or whatever) into something similar, but different (the VF-1A/J/SR) by 2036, which served as the space interceptor fighter until the VF-2SS came into service.

The VF-2JA implies that concurrently, atmospheric, or non-space interceptor VFs were also designed, with the VF-2JA being the one most commonly used (easily accessible) by the Macross II era.

Of course, this is all speculation, as the Macross II alternate setting, let alone it's VF development history, wasn't developed in the first place, and stopped being developed once SK returned to Macross and cut it all out.