Mac 0: Conspiracy Theory?

[reddsun1]

I'm sure I'll have a multitude of reprisals for mentioning this--slurs, death threats and the like--but I was digging thru some old comics and stumbled on some old back issues of Robo#$@h, by Antarctic press circa 1997-98. Before the pitchforks and torches are heaved in my direction: I got these during a period before I found the redeeming salvation and enlightenment that is Macross World. I was off in college at the time, just getting into collecting comics as a bit of a hobby; I was really digging the mecha art, since it was my only "fix" for VF's, Destroids and such. In retrospect, I'm guessing they were using some resource of Macross line art or some other artwork for the mecha, given the huge disparity between mecha and character art in the comics. Kinda like old movies that use war "stock footage" for all their action scenes.

They appeared to be using the "gaps" in timeline/story from ep. to ep. in the TV show to pull their story arcs from. Given, there were lots of errors and inconsistencies in the story and art. The characters don't look a whole helluva lot like their anime namesakes; there's coloring "errors," on mecha, like VF-1A's in orange/tan 1D colors; one frame may show a fighter w/a 1J head, only to be "drawn" in Battroid mode on the very next page, with a 1A head, so on and so forth. For instance, the story in the first 3 eps takes place before the battle in Saturn's rings. But Max appears in issue 1, flying in Roy's sqn, and in a VF-1A--but it's colored in his 1J Blue Max scheme no less!

Anyways, I digress. You're wondering: "WTF has this got to do with Mac 0?" There was a side-story arc in the first few issues of these comics titled "Prototype 001: Tigercat," which bears an uncanny similarity to the storyline of Mac 0. Coincidence? Maybe--you be the judges. The prototype doesn't fully TF but is, in fact, basically drawn as an F-14 with VF "legs" for gerwalk/flight testing. Sure enough, just as in Mac 0, Roy Fokker is a key player in this "prequel" as well. He also faces off with a former mentor/instructor in this story as well, who also happens to have a customized fighter and fly for the Anti-UN. His mount is, interestingly enough, a Mig-29 with reconfig. legs, though. Roy leads up a test squadron in this story too; and they likewise head into battle against Anti-UN forces. A breif synopsis I found: "Two years earlier, in February of 2007, a younger but similarly surly Lisa Hayes brings a younger and slightly more immature Roy Fokker to a hangar on Macross Island to get familiar with his new mount, the YVF-14A Tigercat Prototype 001. The aircraft is a live simulator prototype developed to test a new battle configuration, which was discovered on the VF-X prototype by accident." Mere coincidence that someone did a "prequel" story--albeit using different media--along similar lines to that of Mac 0? Perhaps, after all, there's only so much you can work from the story line before Space War I and still involve cool ass TF mecha battles. The development of the technology was relatively rapid, given the reverse-engineering used, and really didn't come into play until pretty shortly before the arrival of the Zentraedi, in both Mac and Robotech, respectively.

Edited August 14, 2006 by reddsun1

[sketchley]

Uhm... yes, the two stories have similar elements, but did the American one have the whole AFOS/Protoculture manipulation of humans/spiritia singing/rocks flying aspect of Macross Zero?

I agree that pre SDF:Macross, there are few elements that can be taken. However, in your synopsis, you forgot to mention the other pre-Macross launch comic series featuring none other than Roy Fokker: Return to Macross.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robotech_(com....281994-1996.29

Synopsis: http://robotechcomics.50megs.com/returnmac.html

And what's with Captain Gloval cooking and wearing an apron? He's a man's man after all...

[JB0]

And what's with Captain Gloval cooking and wearing an apron?  He's a man's man after all...

424906[/snapback]

Maybe he's selling George Foreman grills?

[Sumdumgai]

Does it matter who's cooking as long as it tastes good? Food is food man!

[reddsun1]

Uhm... yes, the two stories have similar elements, but did the American one have the whole AFOS/Protoculture manipulation of humans/spiritia singing/rocks flying aspect of Macross Zero?

I agree that pre SDF:Macross, there are few elements that can be taken.  However, in your synopsis, you forgot to mention the other pre-Macross launch comic series featuring none other than Roy Fokker: Return to Macross.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robotech_(com....281994-1996.29

Synopsis: http://robotechcomics.50megs.com/returnmac.html

And what's with Captain Gloval cooking and wearing an apron?  He's a man's man after all...

424906[/snapback]

Oh no, of course Robo&*#h isn't going to have silly alien AFOS stuff like that. The great diety-incarnate that is Carl Macek decided to enlighten us unwashed masses with something much more clever than that. In Robo*@#h, Protoculture isn't some ancient and mysterious alien race--no, it's waayy cooler. Protoculture is the fuel that powers multi-functional t-forming mecha! and it comes from flowers! and it has hallucinogenic properties! Go on an LSD-like mind trip when you drop it yourself, and get wicked HP and gas mileage when you drop it in the tank! Why, it's the greatest thing since sliced bread! *groan*

[Dante74]

That "YVF-14 Tigercat" looks like an uninspired mix of a F-14 nose and VF-1 midlle/rear.

At least Kawamori designed something new...old...hmmm...whatever.

Does it matter who's cooking as long as it tastes good?   Food is food man!

424996[/snapback]

You got that right!

[Ginrai]

Man, those Antarctic Press Robotech comics are for the most part extremely bad, especially Tigercat. Ugh.

At least Return to Macross was readable. Tigercat is like getting your eyes stuck in a garbage disposal.

[Zinjo]

Well considering what backstory was revealed in SDFM and the contemporary fighter to the F-14 was the Mig 29, it really isn't a surprise that the initial scenarios are similar.

What is more astonishing that any RT writer would come up with something like that, not so much that it is similar to Mac Zero.

[sketchley]

As far as Robotech comics go... Eternity was the best publisher, followed by Academy - largely because they continued with some of the series created by Eternity.*

Of course, of all the Robotech comics, the most funky series is the Robotech Defenders by DC Comics.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robotech_(comics)

[Nied]

IIRC the anti-UN plane was based on a Su-35 not a Mig-29.

[reddsun1]

Yup, apparently from a creative standpoint, it's been a free-for-all from the various comic companies over the last dozen years or so with the Robotech license for US fans. Add to that the somewhat limited exposure of the original Macross, and you get folks pretty much pulling thier material seemingly out of the air, as far as continuity is concerned.

I kinda liked the Covert Ops mini series. But I think that was just because the mecha/character designs were pretty cool compared to other offerings of the day. And why was that? It too was a real hodge podge in regards to continuity and just plain erratical materials in the story. With a little better tweaking, the story could actually fit into the continuity. But as one review stated: "most of the designwork Lane used was from the 1984 motion picture Macross: Do You Remember Love ("DYRL" for short)--from the bridge uniforms, to the pilot uniforms, to the SDF-1 bridge, to the Zentraedi base and armor design, even down to the Coca Cola machine on page 3 of the first issue." In a nutshell, it was a chance to get DYRL-esque artwork in comics back around '98-'99, when very little else was available at your run-of-the-mill comic shop.

Edited August 15, 2006 by reddsun1

[Radd]

I heard the nods to 'DYRL?' were what got the license pulled from Antarctic. HG, at the time, was apparently uncomfortable with treading into that territory and the situation was not clear to the artists involved.

This was before, of course, HG's wild claims that they owned the 'DYRL?' designs.

[Ginrai]

There were a lot of reasons Antarctic lost the license from what I hear. Continuity infractions were not a big deal. Publishing absolute garbage like Rubicon, anything Ben Dunn worked on, and of course, Robotech 3000 are all important factors. There are a few okay things in Artarctic's output: Rolling Thunder, Vermillion, and Covert Ops. Everything else is dire, dire trash. The first three issues of the regular Antarctic Robotech comics feature mecha COMPLETELY traced from Macross line art and badly computer colored. The Valkyries randomly switched heads, because hey, that VF-1A was in a different position than that VF-1J. Ugh.

[Knight26]

From what I can see, and remember, some of it looked interesting, and I'd almost be tempted to pick up some of the pure macross stuff just for the artwork. I also vaguely remember the Misa dream sequence comic, I think I just skimmed it at a comic book shop, and was like, WTF is that, Roy's alive and there are like three Macrosses and a dozen early megaroads.

[Ginrai]

Sure, that story SOUNDS intersting, but it's shallow and poorly written, and the art sucks, so what do you want? If you just want Macross art, get Covert Ops and Vermillion. Both have cool Macross art.

[big F]

OH crap I thought I was the only person in creation to have those Rowboatheck comics.

I had noticed the similarity of the stories but in my usual dismiss anything with Robotech in the title way I never put 2 and 2 together. At least now I can die happy in the knowledge that Im not a complete sado.

[yellowlightman]

There were a lot of reasons Antarctic lost the license from what I hear. Continuity infractions were not a big deal. Publishing absolute garbage like Rubicon, anything Ben Dunn worked on, and of course, Robotech 3000 are all important factors. There are a few okay things in Artarctic's output: Rolling Thunder, Vermillion, and Covert Ops. Everything else is dire, dire trash. The first three issues of the regular Antarctic Robotech comics feature mecha COMPLETELY traced from Macross line art and badly computer colored. The Valkyries randomly switched heads, because hey, that VF-1A was in a different position than that VF-1J. Ugh.

425320[/snapback]

HG didn't want to renew the comics license, simple as that. This was around the time that RT3000 was on the horizon and so I guess they wanted to keep their options open. Something similar happened with Palladium Books, in that HG refused to approve any new manuscripts and would only agree to renew the license for an excessive fee.

The Antarctic Press comics were by the far the worst Robotech comics to date. It was pretty clear the writers didn't have much of a grasp on the Robotech universe. I liked Academy Comics run the best, what they lacked in production values they made up for in spirit and definately felt like they were for fans, by fans.

[gerwalk25]

Looks like Minmei's wearing bondage gear!

[JB0]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/ima...529692566.2.GIF

Looks like Minmei's wearing bondage gear!

426269[/snapback]

So I'm NOT the only person that thought that!

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Minmay becomes a porn star in that comic? Coool!

[Skullsixx]

Minmay becomes a porn star in that comic? Coool!

426585[/snapback]

Uhhh yeah... and don't the Rogue Zentraedi resurrect Roy to become the ultimate Uber-Zentraedi pilot too?!!

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Rogue zentradi are probably the faction that split after living with humans post SWI and wanting to return as warriors again after getting sick of minmay's songs.

This is when minmay's career went down the toilet and she was forced to get into porn videos as new more shocking ways to paralyse the zentradi. No longer was the minmay attack just a song and dance they needed minmay to provide much longer distractions for the future missions the military would need her for.

As the rogue zentradi learned from human civilisation, (ie see episode where kamjin repairs the damaged ship) they increasingly became more independant of humans and found ways to make clones to act as spies. The roy you saw was in fact one of the many spies the rogue zentradi scientists created in a lab to learn of any new developments in weapons. What better way to steal our technology then to have a person who flies the secret weapons as a test pilot?

The problem: Roy died from loss of blood in that last mission against the zentradi grunts right? Wrong. We never saw the funeral: just roy collapsing to the ground. And three holes in his back. That could have been alien markings from an abduction. Like Ivanov, (who everyone thought was dead) it might be that his body mysteriously disapeared and the zentradi may have had spies aboard the ship to take it for study and swapping it with another body. When the rogue zentradi realised thier best pilots could be beaten by mere humans, they decided to abduct humans and clone them for thier own purposes.

I think Zombie Roy is one of the Z Rogues' secret projects ie like the Kira Yamato thing in gundam seed. Roy never died since we never saw his dead body in the series and macross was meant to go on for longer than 36 eps.

But if the humans believed Roy is dead, wouldn't his return shock them and he can't test planes anymore? Well I will get to this: If you notice the treatment the UNG gave to all the people aboard the macross late in the tv series, you will notice they told the public that all the people were dead and killed by anti-un guerillas and that the civilians on board can't see thier family on earth because then the earth people would know the government lied and cause a riot. The same thing happened here: Clone Roy was given all the necessary cover by the rogue zentradi spies aboard the SDF1 to pass as the one that was injured/died (cover story was made about him wanting to fake the death) and he continued to test new technology without his family or friends knowing about him. The military decided from now on, Roy would have to remain "dead" so the anti-un and any rogue-Zentradi would'nt have any advantage in knowing about him and any future fighters due to things that happened in the past from Mac zero and Ivanov managing to steal thier ideas. (military not even realising this Roy was already a clone made by the aliens and spying on them)

It's a complicated story eh? (yeah this is joke post, never read the robotech stories only the novels)

Edited August 21, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Skullsixx]

Does this mean that Minmay will be on the Stern show next week?

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

The guy flying VF-20 deployed his flaps in space!