Agent ONE Posted August 30, 2004 Author Posted August 30, 2004 How about I just rank them and then next to them put a reason why. Good enough. A mini-editorial might be better than a letter or number grade anyway. So far, the list includes Clint Eastwood Steve McQueen Charles Bronson Chuck Heston and I'll add Lee Marvin So is it a list of 'on-screen perceived toughness?' Is that the official name for this list? I just want to make sure... i don't want to rank these guys for the wrong thing.
bsu legato Posted August 30, 2004 Posted August 30, 2004 So is it a list of 'on-screen perceived toughness?' Is that the official name for this list? Sure, although if you feel there's a huge disparity between an actor's on-screen persona and their real lifestyle (like if you though Bronson was a sissy because he liked wild flowers) then by all means point it out.
ewilen Posted August 30, 2004 Posted August 30, 2004 (edited) I've you have Lee Marvin and Charles Bronson on the list, you also need James Coburn. And personally, I'd put Lee Van Cleef on the list, too, even though he didn't have a lot of big parts. Edit: Oh, yeah, what about Robert Shaw? Edit (2): And then there's a fellow by the name of John Wayne. Edited August 30, 2004 by ewilen
bsu legato Posted August 30, 2004 Posted August 30, 2004 (edited) So the updated list is: Clint Eastwood Steve McQueen Charles Bronson Chuck Heston Lee Marvin James Coburn Lee Van Cleef John Wayne Robert Shaw Edit: can anybody come up with some modern manly men to compare to Arnold? I can't think of a single one right now. Edited August 30, 2004 by bsu legato
Agent ONE Posted August 30, 2004 Author Posted August 30, 2004 So the updated list is:Clint Eastwood Steve McQueen Charles Bronson Chuck Heston Lee Marvin James Coburn Lee Van Cleef John Wayne Robert Shaw Edit: can anybody come up with some modern manly men to compare to Arnold? I can't think of a single one right now. I'm workin on the list right now... and Jesus hasn't come back again... no.
bsu legato Posted August 30, 2004 Posted August 30, 2004 (edited) Yeah, the current crop of Hollywood "tough guys" is pretty limp wristed compared to either Arnold or the leading men of yesteryear. Heck, Clint Eastwood could still kick the crap out of Russell Crowe, Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise. Mel Gibson has definitely gone soft, and does anybody even care about Bruce Willis anymore? Edited August 30, 2004 by bsu legato
Opus Posted August 30, 2004 Posted August 30, 2004 Chuck Norris is probably the most competent real life ass kicker. Sonny Chiba is a total badass on screen. He'll rip out your throat then sell your sister into prostitution just before making your head explode. Some other tough guys off the top of my head are Segal, Van Damme,Vin Diesel,Carl Weathers, Stallone and my personal hero Mr.T, fool! And the guy who played "The Humongous" in the Road Warrior. He was awesome.
Agent ONE Posted August 30, 2004 Author Posted August 30, 2004 (edited) The Official Agent ONE: Tiers of Toughness TIER ZERO: GODMODE: the devine ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER – Its lonely at the top. He defines indestructible action heroes in the most extreme way, when you see him in person, he doesn’t even look human. From the machine he was in Terminator, to even his tender side in Conan the Barbarian he has displayed that he is just unstoppable. CLINT EASTWOOD – Found the energy after facing death in the desert to throw a cup of water in Tuco’s face and crack a joke in The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly. All the Sergio Leone movies saw him looking down the barrel of a pistol many times and he didn’t flinch. Toughness unlimited. Upon rethinking the situation and a long discussion with Duke Togo (no not Sonny Chiba.. The MW member) I have decided that Eastwood is immortal like Arnold. * Honorable mention goes to Jesus Christ… He wasn’t an action star, but if he was I am sure he would be one bad mo-fo just like Arnold. TIER ONE: Bullet-proof SONNY CHIBA – Duke Togo, Golgo13… There is no tougher character in anything ever. In fact if instead of Alien vs. Predator, it was Alien vs. Golgo13 I’d imagine Sonny would walk out of the movie with an alien skin coat. SYLVESTER STALONE – The man has made some corny movies, but is immortalized for the first 3 Rocky movies and First Blood. He took insane torture and even saw death to come out victorious, and for the most part fought for very little other than pride. So tough, he’s a commie’s worst nightmare. TIER TWO: Laughs at death JACK NICHOLSON – Powered by insanity most of the time this ‘Joker’ was always looking death in the eye, and death was scared. His pinnacle was One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, the Shining, or A Few Good Men. Just badass. CHRISTOPHER WALKEN – The Deer Hunter, just beautiful to be able to gamble with your brain as a betting chip. Like Jack, powered by insanity but a much more seductive insanity, mesmerizing in a way, and on top of that he did hold that watch up his ass for a few years. BRUCE LEE – This guy was the most dangerous man with his fists to ever live. His movies were great fun and he was always in awesome shape. Unfortunately in real life he could catch bullets in his teeth like in the movies. MEL GIBSON – Mad Max.. Braveheart, Payback, really tough.. Too bad he has done so many limp roles since then, he would have scored much higher. TIER THREE: Eats nails GENE HACKMAN – The French Connection, Enemy of the State, Runaway Jury… He always impressed me with his toughness, kind of gave me chills reminding me of my father when he was pissed at me for painting the cat. CHARLES BRONSON – This dude was just awesome in his day, but I could never decide if the source of his toughness was insanity like with Jack, or it was ‘little-man disease.’ We all know this guy was like 5’3. I understand most actors are short, but I always felt like his character was the little guy trying to push everyone around. Aside from this fact he probably belongs with Sly, Clint, and Jack in “Laughs at Death.” ROBERT DENIRO – The Taxi Driver… Nuthin beats a suicide mission, or even the stuff he did in the Deer hunter. The guy just eats nails. LEE MARVIN – The Dirty Dozen was just awesome, and it would have been nothing without Lee. One tough sucka. TIER FOUR: Walks on broken glass BRUCE WILLIS – Ends up covered in his own blood at the end of every movie… Pain is nothing to him, and I like the way he dealt with terrorists in The Seige. JAMES COBURN – Our Man FLINT! The ultimate in cheesy spy movies, as well as a ton of other great roles, one always knew if Coburn was in the movie he would put on a tough show. Even toward the end of his life in Payback he was In like Flint. LEE VAN CLEEF – Not many movies really highlight his badass nature, but when cast in the Sergio Leone movies is enough for me. Awesome tough. GEORGE LAZENBY – Yeah yeah, the dude only did one real movie, but the self proclaimed “Connery Copy” did it all without the use of gadgets. The only Bond to rely ONLY on his toughness and wit. Honorable mention goes to Robert Shaw. I just haven’t seen enough of him to really judge; I think he belongs with Lee, James, and Bruce though. TIER FIVE: Better than average SEAN CONNERY – The original Bond does disserve some credit, though we all knew he was going to make it out of any life threatening situation, he still looked down the working end of a few guns and managed a smile. He would have been higher but he depended just a little too much on his gadgets which may be cool, but isn’t tough. PAUL HOGAN – “That’s not a knife”… Not superhuman, but way better than the average so-called action star. CHUCK NORIS – Better than average, but never did much on the screen for me. JEAN-CLAUDE VAN DAMME – The ‘Muscles from Brussels’ has a great physique, probably the best in acting as far as pleasing to the mass market, however in real life he seriously fails to be tough. Claiming to be the greatest martial artist in the world then getting your ass kicked when trying to be Billy BadAss at a NY club is not so tough. TIER SIX: Is my hair ok? STEVE MCQUEEN – Was ok in Bullet, but never did much for me. He was high on the ‘chick magnet’ scale, but he isn’t really tough. CHARLTON HESTON – Maybe his movies are just too old for me to really get into, but he never really did much for me in the realm of toughness. One of the best actors on the list, but surpassed many times over in toughness by the above Tiers. TIER SEVEN: Lisp-Ville JOHN WAYNE – Sorry guys, I know back in the day this kind of dude was considered tough, but he just comes off as an overweight blowhard to me. FAT does NOT equal tough after 1975. Russell Crowe fits this description also, but he isn’t even a legend so he doesn’t even get a spot on the list. Edited August 31, 2004 by Agent ONE
Agent ONE Posted August 30, 2004 Author Posted August 30, 2004 Chuck Norris is probably the most competent real life ass kicker. Sonny Chiba is a total badass on screen. He'll rip out your throat then sell your sister into prostitution just before making your head explode. Some other tough guys off the top of my head are Segal, Van Damme,Vin Diesel,Carl Weathers, Stallone and my personal hero Mr.T, fool! And the guy who played "The Humongous" in the Road Warrior. He was awesome. Van Damme should be on the list, and Sonny Chiba WILL be added. How could I forget the only man who could play Golgo13.
ewilen Posted August 30, 2004 Posted August 30, 2004 If you include Vin Diesel, you need to add The Rock. And if you have Carl Weathers, you also need Jesse Ventura.
ewilen Posted August 30, 2004 Posted August 30, 2004 And if you have De Niro--whom I agree is an amazing tough guy and a master thespian, a rare combination, indeed--maybe you should have Duvall, and give the little guy some respect: Joe Pesci. A1, have you seen Papillon? And for Heston--Planet of the Apes, The Warlord, The Ten Commandments, Ben Hur. Also, if you've seen South Park, you know that JC is an action hero.
bsu legato Posted August 30, 2004 Posted August 30, 2004 (edited) Also, if you've seen South Park, you know that JC is an action hero. Yeah, didja see the way he took out Frosty? The used his freakin' halo. That, my friends, is badass. Edited August 30, 2004 by bsu legato
Agent ONE Posted August 30, 2004 Author Posted August 30, 2004 If you include Vin Diesel, you need to add The Rock.And if you have Carl Weathers, you also need Jesse Ventura. Yeah none of those guys belong... Carl Weathers isn't an action star... He is a supporting star. Unless you are talking about Action Jackson and I think we ALL want to forget about that.
Agent ONE Posted August 30, 2004 Author Posted August 30, 2004 And if you have De Niro--whom I agree is an amazing tough guy and a master thespian, a rare combination, indeed--maybe you should have Duvall, and give the little guy some respect: Joe Pesci.A1, have you seen Papillon? And for Heston--Planet of the Apes, The Warlord, The Ten Commandments, Ben Hur. Also, if you've seen South Park, you know that JC is an action hero. I don't watch South Park ever... I think its OK, but I just think other stuff is better. I've Charlton Heston in those movies and I think he is a dynamite actor, just not really tough. And no, I haven't seen Papillon.
Mechamaniac Posted August 30, 2004 Posted August 30, 2004 FAT does NOT equal tough after 1975. Russell Crowe fits this description also. Then you gotta add Seagal to the list under the Duke.
pfunk Posted August 30, 2004 Posted August 30, 2004 Wha about the Rock, some,,,,scratch that,,, MOST of his movies are pretty corny, but Im sure he could kick John Waynes arse,,,,,,, .............Is This Me.................
Agent ONE Posted August 31, 2004 Author Posted August 31, 2004 I edited the list slightly. Yes I know I never edit editing because editing is for pussies, but you guys would be tired of scrolling through that list more than once.
Mechamaniac Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 (edited) And if you have Carl Weathers, you also need Jesse Ventura. Not to get too far OT, but has anyone read up on all the crap surrounding Jesse's made up claims at being a Navy SEAL? I lost alot of respect for him after I read this stuff... http://www.cursor.org/venturawatch/default.htm Closer to the actual point... http://www.cursor.org/venturawatch/dangerous_game.htm Edited August 31, 2004 by Mechamaniac
JsARCLIGHT Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 Just so my crazed boy Tony Montana makes the list you need to add Al Pachino. He's more of a s#!t talking tough guy than an actual knock down drag out tough guy so he'd be low in the rankings...
EXO Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 Great list, not necessarily in that order for me... #1 would be Clint Eastwood, if he stared at me like he stared at a bad guy, I'd go ahead and shoot myself. Then it'd be Steve Mcqueen John Wayne Lee Marvin Lee Van Cleef, not only is he a cowboy, he's a master ninja!!! Charles Bronson The Oak Deniro Bruce Willis Mel Gibson I'm a huge Willis fan, I just don't think anything compares to 70's tough guys... hell I'm still scared of Rip Torn, and that guy is hella funny now. And The Rock has nothing on Joe Don Baker... Guy's today that I wish would do more movies in lead roles... Cole Hauser Matthew McConaughey Christian Bale DMX (needs a serious role) Honorable mention to: Steven Seagal and Michael Biehn.... hell of a beginning but petered out quickly, especially Michael Beihn, he was da man!
Agent ONE Posted August 31, 2004 Author Posted August 31, 2004 Just so my crazed boy Tony Montana makes the list you need to add Al Pachino. He's more of a s#!t talking tough guy than an actual knock down drag out tough guy so he'd be low in the rankings... I thought of him, but for reasons you mentioned I wasn't sure where to put him. I might add him in tomorow.
Opus Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 Meyah,see. What about Edward G. Robinson? He's getting his own stamp, see.
Hubert Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 if you put bruce willis, you might add mickey rourke :/ otherwise you can add yul brener, lee majors , georges peppard they were top too
Agent ONE Posted August 31, 2004 Author Posted August 31, 2004 I only put action legends on the list. I mean Micky Rorke is cool, but he has never been much more than a supporting role... Kind of like Carl Weathers. Lee Majors was cool for porking hot chicks and being the 6 Million Dollar man. Actually my avatar (which is me) is a tribute to that show. I don't know, he still doesn't hold a candle to the dudes on the list. Not a legend. I saw the Rock mentioned a few times. To tell you the truth I don't think he has reached legendary status yet as he has only stared in 2 bad movies and one fair one (the Rundown). I think he has the potential to become a legend, but he has a way to go.
ewilen Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 (edited) yul brener Yeah, I thought of him, too. Not sure about his other roles (dancing, singing King of Siam? Petulant, ineffectual Pharaoh?) but he was one of the magnificent seven, and more importantly, he's terrifying in West World. I wouldn't put him on the list unless he's done more tough roles that I haven't seen. But his gunslinger character was surely an influence on the Terminator, or at least a precursor. Edited August 31, 2004 by ewilen
Agent ONE Posted August 31, 2004 Author Posted August 31, 2004 LIST UPDATED: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...ndpost&p=194260
bsu legato Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 Awesome updates, A1. I'm glad to see Eastwood was elevated to Oak-like status. You're bang-on about Gibson too. If this was 1984 and not 2004, he would have been wayyyy higher. Mad Max ate freakin' dog food. That's hardcore, man.
Agent ONE Posted August 31, 2004 Author Posted August 31, 2004 Awesome updates, A1. I'm glad to see Eastwood was elevated to Oak-like status. You're bang-on about Gibson too. If this was 1984 and not 2004, he would have been wayyyy higher. Mad Max ate freakin' dog food. That's hardcore, man. Pretty much... DT and I are going back and forth on the issue, but Gibson is just soft now. At least Arnold quit with a bang (T3) and will probably use his vacation time to do Crown of Iron (if my prayers are answered).
bsu legato Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 and will probably use his vacation time to do Crown of Iron (if my prayers are answered). Yeah, what's up with that? You're our Arnold Corospondent in SoCal. Make sure the Oak knows we need to see him do Crown Of Iron, and not Triple H.
Agent ONE Posted August 31, 2004 Author Posted August 31, 2004 and will probably use his vacation time to do Crown of Iron (if my prayers are answered). Yeah, what's up with that? You're our Arnold Corospondent in SoCal. Make sure the Oak knows we need to see him do Crown Of Iron, and not Triple H. I know man. It HAS to be Arnold.
Roy Focker Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 What about Mister T! I pity the fool who don't include T. He'll throw ya hella far and then drink some milk! Also what about Mifune?
ewilen Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 What about Mister T!I pity the fool who don't include T. He'll throw ya hella far and then drink some milk! And if you're not lucky, he'll eat your balls.
EXO Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 Also what about Mifune? Damn... where's Bruce Lee???
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