danth Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 BTW, the bet is open to anyone else who wants to take it. Just one person, though. If I'm wrong, I can't afford to be _too_ wrong. ;p It's not good odds. $115 is halfway between $80 and $150, so he should win if the price is less than $115. Also, if you're right, he loses $150. If he's right, you lose $80. So the bet is totally in your favor. Just sayin'.
Jasonc Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 I think anyone trying to correct anyone on a speculative matter is simply stupid on more than one account. To elevate this thread to where it is seems like a waste of time. Honestly, I'd like to see them honor the price, and in my opinion, they should. If they are going to put them out this early without price verification, then if they underestimate, that should be no ones fault but their own. But, that's my $0.02. If it is changed, I have ordered two of each, but will quickly cancel if the prices change too much. If they are about $150 each, I'll probably just order 1 each. In anycase, only time will tell. I do have a question for those of you that may know... What size is the CMs set in comparison to the Toynami version?
danth Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 I think anyone trying to correct anyone on a speculative matter is simply stupid on more than one account. Definitely, especially when the motive seems to be nothing more than bragging rights.
jenius Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 Why do you repeatedly buy products from someone who is of "questionable repute," and why do you promote their products by reviewing them on your web site? If you have such a negative opinion of Toynami and George Sohn (I'm assuming your line about "greedy folks with poor business sense" was a reference to them), why do you devote so much time, energy, and resources to purchasing and discussing their products? Given how worked up you seem to have gotten during this conversation, I think this is something you need to ask yourself. Since all of this is directed at me, instead of the Beta, I'll go ahead and send you a PM in response. Next time, state your case as to why I'm wrong and why the Beta must cost $150 since I listed reasons why it could be much less. It'd make for a more compelling on topic discussion.
Shun Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 (edited) seems twin moon anime site has the betas and other figures up for the same price, but has free shipping =] wondering if i should change my preorder from bbt to twanime... do they have a easy cancellation policy at twanime? btw, how much is usually shipping on robotech.com? im interested in getting a alpha there for backup if they dont re-release any. ok i know the beta is not released yet yadda yadda, but knowing toynami's infamous record, imho i'm still gonna get myself prepared for a horrible QC for the beta, and so regarding returns policy: does twin moon anime pay for the shipping of the defect product returns to and from their warehouse? Coz BBTS pay for all shipping for returns, and if twin moon doesn't, then the $10 shipping deduction (i'm not in the US) is better spent as "insurance" at BBTS. Edited March 14, 2008 by Shun
Roger Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 (edited) Since all of this is directed at me, instead of the Beta, I'll go ahead and send you a PM in response. That was a wonderful read, thanks. I still don't understand why you continue to send money to people you consider liars, cheats, and thieves, and whose products you think aren't good, but if you don't lose any sleep over it, that's fine. You have to admit, though, there's something a little funny about that. Next time, state your case as to why I'm wrong and why the Beta must cost $150 since I listed reasons why it could be much less. It'd make for a more compelling on topic discussion. I did, at the bottom of page 20, using about 20 words. It was all based on simple facts, no elaborate speculation, and it was all very straightforward and lighthearted. Then after I admitted that the discussion was dumb and we weren't going to convince each other of anything, you continued to post a couple hundred more words about why you thought it was going to be priced less, and then (I think) you tried to insult me. There's something a little funny about that, too. At least I thought so. Nobody else has seen the humor here? We are just talking about toys, aren't we? Edited March 14, 2008 by Roger
Fly4victory Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 nothing more than bragging rights. My Beta is bigger than your Beta.
eriku Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 I think it's entirely logical to assume the Beta will be $150 since that's what Toynami said it will be. Nobody even started thinking it would be $80 until BBTS listed it for that, which we now know may be a mistake. And now it seems like people are desperately trying to cling to that price in hopes that it's real. Why not just plan for $150 and hope for $80?
Mog Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 In any case, that preorder price is still up. If they decide for whatever reason not to honor it, I'll just cancel and go with my usual, go-to dealers. Major props to Kyp for waking this Mog out of his slumber and telling me about this news. Yeah, I know far too well about Toynami's "well-earned" reputation. But I just can't pass on the Beta, especially at this particular price point.
mechaninac Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 (edited) Just to put the kibosh on all this acrimony regarding the Beta's MSRP, Twin Moons has just put Volume 1 and 2 up for pre-order for $79.99 each (and with free shipping to boot). That's two vendors already with the same pre-order price for the same exact item; therefore, unless there is some major lack of communication between these vendors, their distributors and Toynami themselves, the MPC standard release MSPR is in effect. So Jenius' theory on the pricing is correct until proven otherwise. I wonder if BBTS is willing to match Twin Moon's free shipping deal... that's like a $10.00 savings. @Mog: looks like you'll finally be able to retire your avatar pretty soon... Edit: I wonder if Toynami's Beta will have the opening chest missile bays and the ones inboard of the shoulders that are incorporated in CMs' design. That would be cool and make the MSRP even more attractive. And althogh we haven't seen them, I'm assuming, hoping, that the Beta will have retracting landing gears deployed from the correct locations, which would trump CMs'. Edited March 14, 2008 by mechaninac
CoryHolmes Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 the ones inboard of the shoulders that are incorporated in CMs' design. I didn't even know that there were supposed to be missles in the shoulders of the Beta. Chest and behind the "head" yes, but the shoulder launchers are new to me...
Mog Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 @mechaninac, I'm guessing the Beta's gonna be released by Thanksgiving or Christmas time at the earliest. Toynami usually winds up being late on their release dates. In any case, I've gotten used to having this avatar for the past few years. So, having it for a few more months (or until 2009 ) won't be a big deal. (Plus, it'll be a bit of a trip for me, breaking out that kupo-spouting avvy once again.) Personally, I'm kinda curious about how the cockpit stows away in battroid mode. The pics we saw awhile back showed the cockpit just folding down (and showing) in battroid mode. But the pics we're seeing now show it completely hidden in battroid. But more important than that, I really, really, REALLY hope Toynami puts some ratchet joints on these puppies. A floppy shoulder or leg on the Beta would absolutely kill the look of the bomber mode.
CoryHolmes Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 I was referring to these: Yeah, and I never even knew those were supposed to be there. Don't recall seeing them in the animation or in any artwork.
jenius Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 (edited) I still don't understand why you continue to send money to people you consider liars, cheats, and thieves, and whose products you think aren't good, but if you don't lose any sleep over it, that's fine. No, I don't, as I explained to you in the PM. Besides, did I really call them cheats and thieves? No, I said George Sohn is a liar but perhaps I should be nicer and just say he's habitually wrong. If I can smoke a cigar without losing sleep over Castro's running of Cuba I can certainly buy a Toynami product without losing sleep over George Sohn and his amazing knack for never getting anything right. You were right though, it was an entirely dumb conversation but until proven otherwise, I stand by my belief that it's just as dumb of you to be so certain it will be $150 because George Sohn's agreeing with someone saying "I'd pay $150 for it" as it would be for anyone else to believe it will be less. Any implied insult beyond that I'll leave up to your perception but that was the point I've been trying to make. Once we all know for certain a price, feel free at that time to gloat and trumpet your right-ness for all to see should it be $150. Until then though save us all the ultra smug attitude and if you need to address me specifically do it in a PM. I was referring to these: The seams are on the prototype to make those missiles possible but we haven't seen them yet... just like we haven't seen the landing gears. My guess is that they're either not there or Toynami is still debating on having them as a feature. Look how frequently CMs shows all those missiles popping out as if it's a big selling point. You would think if Toynami had them they'd be following suit. Yeah, and I never even knew those were supposed to be there. Don't recall seeing them in the animation or in any artwork. They're in the episode with the Synchro Cannon when Rand/Ray gets all angry on the blonde male Invid/Inbit. Edited March 14, 2008 by jenius
Roger Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 Besides, did I really call them cheats and thieves? No, I said George Sohn is a liar but perhaps I should be nicer and just say he's habitually wrong. From your PM: I have no faith in George Sohn and do not trust a word he says but I don't see why that alone should be a reason why I avoid buying products from Toynami. He can lie, cheat, and steal all he wants, it's the toy I'm buying not his word. Until then though save us all the ultra smug attitude and if you need to address me specifically do it in a PM. No. Silly goose. ;p
vermillion01 Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 OK... i've been reading this tread and it has kept be very amused for the last 2 nights while working long boring night shifts... but please guys..... give it a rest!!!! Jenius - you seem to be trying to get the conversation you and Roger are having moved to PM's - good man. Roger - stop whinning.. at times you are coming across as a douchebag. thats not to say you are one... but you come across that way, and you seem to be spoiling for an argument. As Jenius said in his last post... move it to Pm's and you just reply "no" what kind of childish crap is that? I just want to read about a toy / product that we are all interested in and looking forward to. The price will be what it will be. -- Mods..and others.. sorry if i come across a bit harsh but this is just getting too annoying to read.
jenius Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 (edited) What if I said "He can murder, rape, and pillage all he wants, it's the toy I'm buying." Would you contest that I had called him a murderer, a rapist, and a pillager? No, I'm saying however crappy a person he is doesn't hold much affect on whether or not I like Mospeada toys. Sorry Vermillion01! No. Okay, well my point's been made and you're determined to be a smug ass. Clearly, you can't be swayed and cheers to your resolve. Edited March 14, 2008 by jenius
bigkid24 Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 Well we know they're not going to make more than 15K of the MPCs... what we don't know is how many MPCs they've already sold. It's been so long since they were issued though... My old theory was that Toynami held onto like 5K of each one and would only offer them as giftsets with the MPCs and then there'd be another number of MPC betas that were sold separately for people who already owned one of the first 10K Alphas that got sold. If I were Toynami, that's how I would have done it (or some number variation there of). EDIT- IIRC someone said they had an alpha in the 11K region though so if Toynami has more it'd probably be only like 3K more (again IIRC). Well if Toynami did the same thing they did with the VF-1 series then chances are they didn't make all 15K of the Scott Alpha and may be able to re-release them. 15K was just the top number that they would make it didn't mean they made them all at once. I'm betting Toynami has cash flow problems so they probably don't want to tie up all their resources in 15K Alphas. IIRC, Toynami didn't make all 15k of the Roy VF-1S at once either. When they re-issued the Roy MPC, they didn't make more than the 15K limit....they just finished out the 15k run.
crasis Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 Well if Toynami did the same thing they did with the VF-1 series then chances are they didn't make all 15K of the Scott Alpha and may be able to re-release them. 15K was just the top number that they would make it didn't mean they made them all at once. I'm betting Toynami has cash flow problems so they probably don't want to tie up all their resources in 15K Alphas. IIRC, Toynami didn't make all 15k of the Roy VF-1S at once either. When they re-issued the Roy MPC, they didn't make more than the 15K limit....they just finished out the 15k run. I hope so, because now that a Beta is more certain, I'm interested in a blue Alpha again (without the eBay markup). Only now I know to barely touch the thing.
gingaio Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 (edited) What if I said "He can murder, rape, and pillage all he wants, it's the toy I'm buying." Would you contest that I had called him a murderer, a rapist, and a pillager? Well, yes, technically, that is what you would be calling him. At the very least, it'd be very strongly implied. If I said Roger can masturbate 58 times a day (and I know for a fact that he does...oh, yeah), then, um...yeah, I'd be calling him a chronic masticulator. This so reminds me of Clinton's "I smoked weed, but didn't inhale," line of reasoning. No, I'm saying however crappy a person he is doesn't hold much affect on whether or not I like Mospeada toys. That's an understandable point, but I think what Roger, the chronic masticulator, is getting at is that for some people, sheer principle would prevent them from giving business to people they despise. That's pretty much his only point because I know Roger, being a chronic masticulator and an Apocalypse Now fan, doesn't have too many other ideas in his head. Edited March 14, 2008 by gingaio
eugimon Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 oh, for frak's sake... what does someone need to do to get a mod to shut this pointless arguement up? Don't make me start telling "your momma" jokes, because if that's what it takes, by gum, I'll do just that.
gingaio Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 oh, for frak's sake... what does someone need to do to get a mod to shut this pointless arguement up? Don't make me start telling "your momma" jokes, because if that's what it takes, by gum, I'll do just that. "Eugimon's" momma is so fat she uses Mexico as a tanning bed.
Roger Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 "Eugimon's" momma is so fat she uses Mexico as a tanning bed. Oh, no, you... DI'INT!!! So did anyone email Twin Moons about where they got the $80 price tag?
eugimon Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 "Eugimon's" momma is so fat she uses Mexico as a tanning bed. your momma is a tanning bed.
jenius Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 (edited) Wait, does that just mean Gingaio's mother is Mexico? Edited March 14, 2008 by jenius
eugimon Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 Wait, does that just mean Gingaio's mother is Mexico? only if you subscribe to Gingaio's theory that implied is the same thing as stated.
vermillion01 Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 last night i shot his momma in the leg... she so fat, gravy poured out! i blame EXO for this whole silly argument debacle thing
JsARCLIGHT Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 I'm not going to lock a thread that has stood for months and has a lot of decent info in it just because a few egos can't stay in check. I see no issue with the topic at hand (the discussion of price) but I am starting to see issue with how the topic is being discussed. Please carry yourselves with a bit more decorum guys. Fight fire with fire and debate, make points and counterpoints, call on fact and impression... but if civil words fail you and your only recourse is to inject insults, passive aggression or other derogatory text then please recuse yourself from the discussion. I for one am getting pretty tired of a lot of the petty baiting I'm seeing lately. This may be a forum about plastic toys based on a cartoon but it does not mean you have to act childish.
danth Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 Jenius, thanks for trying to move the argument to PMs. From your PM: Holy hell man, dragging this back here is one thing, but quoting someone's PM in the main board? Are you F'ing kidding me? Anyway, what if Toynami has worked out a deal with Aoshima to release the Beta in Japan? Wouldn't that significantly increase the production run and drop the price? And as Jenius said, it probably won't feature die cast, it's not much bigger than the VF-1, etc etc. Also, I thought that price was the main reason they always gave for not releasing the Beta: It would be too expensive. If they're releasing it, it must mean they found a way to reduce the price. I'm usually right when I expect the worst, so I won't be surprised at all if it does turn out to be around $150. But I won't be shocked if it's $80 either.
gingaio Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 (edited) only if you subscribe to Gingaio's theory that implied is the same thing as stated. And I equated "stated" and "implied" where....? I know you're going to refer to my previous post, but please note that I used an "it is stated...or at the very least heavily implied" construction, not an "it is..the same as" construction. BTW, Eugimon, you eat cake every day, but you're not a cake eater. Jenius wrote: "Wait, does that just mean Gingaio's mother is Mexico?" Well, Jenius's mom is so dumb she thought "genius" was spelled "Jenius." Oh, SNAP! High five to myself! Whoo! And to whoever's moderating at this point: As Roger alluded to, I think we're all just goofing on each other (and each other's momma) in a fairly non-serious way, which, one might admit, is a nice break from the very serious and very much continuing "What if Aoshima worked with Toynami to set the price at and then calculated this and that and da-da-da...." posts. Or one might not admit that. Edited March 14, 2008 by gingaio
eugimon Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 And I equated "stated" and "implied" where....? I know you're going to refer to my previous post, but please note that I used an "it is stated...or at the very least heavily implied" construction, not an "it is..the same as" construction. BTW, Eugimon, you eat cake every day, but you're not a cake eater. Jenius wrote: "Wait, does that just mean Gingaio's mother is Mexico?" Well, Jenius's mom is so dumb she thought "genius" was spelled "Jenius." Oh, SNAP! High five to myself! Whoo! And to whoever's moderating at this point: As Roger alluded to, I think we're all just goofing on each other (and each other's momma) in a fairly non-serious way, which, one might admit, is a nice break from the very serious and very much continuing "What if Aoshima worked with Toynami to set the price at and then calculated this and that and da-da-da...." posts. Or one might not admit that. Well, yes, technically, that is what you would be calling him. At the very least, it'd be very strongly implied. See, you backtracked. technically yes, and strongly implied are not the same thing, which was what I joking on you about. And your example doesn't work. Saying one is a cake eater does not imply or denote exclusivity, therefore, anyone who eats cake or has eaten cake can be fairly described as a "cake eater" where-as, a murderer denotes someone who has murdered and not someone who CAN murder, which denotes ability. It's like the square rectangle arguement. All squares are rectangles but not every rectangle is a square.
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