A Word Of Caution On 1/55 Yellowing

[Skull-1]

For those who think yellowing is exclusive to the bone white Jetfire colored Valks a word of caution.

I have just completed an experiment on UV using some tape and a lot of sunlight in the bone-dry desert.

1) Humidty has no effect on yellowing.

2) Parts not exposed to UV light (hidden by paint, decals, or shade) do not yellow.

3) GRAY Valks like the Hikaru "J" *WILL* CHANGE COLOR in UV light. They go from light gray to light tan.

Be advised...

Keep them out of the light folks.

[sidearmsalpha]

For those who think yellowing is exclusive to the bone white Jetfire colored Valks a word of caution.

I have just completed an experiment on UV using some tape and a lot of sunlight in the bone-dry desert.

1) Humidty has no effect on yellowing.

2) Parts not exposed to UV light (hidden by paint, decals, or shade) do not yellow.

3) GRAY Valks like the Hikaru "J" *WILL* CHANGE COLOR in UV light.  They go from light gray to light tan.

Be advised...

Keep them out of the light folks.

417883[/snapback]

I'm almost totally clueless about UV light. Does this mean if your toys are on display, even indirect sunlight can cause them to yellow? Also, what about light from a light bulb?

[Skull-1]

If the lightbulb emits UV (fluorescent lights emit UV...the powdered coating on the inside of the bulb is supposed to block it, but I do not trust it) it will yellow the toy.

Take the light bulb you use to your Optometrist. He has a machine that can gauge UV emission and he'll tell you if it is doing harm.

Indirect sunlight is not as bad as direct, but it will yellow the toy.

Example: Your Valkyrie is on a shelf in your library that has bright indirect sunlight coming through a large window 15 feet away. Your Valkyrie *WILL* turn yellow.

Keep your blinds closed, curtains drawn, and fluorescent lighting away from your toys.

Also, invest in some clear UV film from a major manufacturer (I believe in Lumar but 3M also makes it) and add it to the glass on your display cases. It will help protect your Valks.

Edited July 21, 2006 by Skull-1

[LL Cool VF1J]

I see colored plastic turn yellow all the time. The blue plastic will turn green ect.......If you want to keep your valks in showroom condition, you do need to baby them. Definatly keep them out of sun light. Thanks for the heads up Skull-1.

Edited July 21, 2006 by LL Cool VF1J

[nightmareB4macross]

Thanks for the tip.

But let's not forget, heat is also a factor of yellowing and degrading plastics.

[Skull-1]

Based on my testing heat was not a factor.

Hot Valkyries in shade did not yellow.

They will become brittle however.

[Hurin]

Those are some pretty broad assertions being made on very little data.

We need a bit more information on your "scientific method" before we can be sure about what you're saying.

For example. . . if you placed tape on a valk, placed it in the sun for a week, and then came back to find that the un-taped area yellowed while the taped area did not. . . all that proves is that sunlight yellows valks. It does not prove that heat or humidity won't yellow valks over longer periods of time.

I don't doubt that sunlight accelerates and/or causes yellowing. . . I don't think anybody does. But confirming one (obvious) cause of yellowing doesn't rule out other causes.

I had a minty white 1/55 Strike Valkyrie. I kept it in a box for about a decade in a dark closet. It yellowed. 'Nuff said.

Best,

H

[Agent-GHQ]

Not good cuz I have 9 Strike Valks stored in my dark closet. Not a decade yet but it's getting there and I hate to see it turned yellow like yours Hurin. So regardless of it being exposed to UV light, sunlight, or any given light our 1/55 Valks are susceptible to oxidation, period! .

Edited July 21, 2006 by Agent-GHQ

[Skull-1]

Those are some pretty broad assertions being made on very little data.

We need a bit more information on your "scientific method" before we can be sure about what you're saying.

For example. . . if you placed tape on a valk, placed it in the sun for a week, and then came back to find that the un-taped area yellowed while the taped area did not. . . all that proves is that sunlight yellows valks.  It does not prove that heat or humidity won't yellow valks over longer periods of time.

I don't doubt that sunlight accelerates and/or causes yellowing. . . I don't think anybody does.  But confirming one (obvious) cause of yellowing doesn't rule out other causes.

I had a minty white 1/55 Strike Valkyrie.  I kept it in a box for about a decade in a dark closet.  It yellowed.  'Nuff said.  

Best,

H

418042[/snapback]

I have done the test.

Control A1 - High Humidity, High Temp, No Light - Gray VF-1J ORIGINAL ISSUE Fuselage Half (Upper).

Location: McAllen, TX USA

Average Humidity - 78%

Average Growing Season - 360 Days / Year (i.e. SUNLIGHT all the time)

Method: Stored in Box Hidden from Sunlight in an attic.

Duration - 1 Year

RESULT: No Yellowing or Discoloration of any kind.

Control B1 - Low Humidity, High Temp, No Light - Gray VF-1J ORIGINAL ISSUE Fuselage Half (Lower).

Location: Maricopa, AZ USA

Average Humidity - 18%

Average Growing Season - 360 Days / Year (i.e. SUNLIGHT all the time)

Method: Stored in Box Hidden from Sunlight in an attic.

Duration - 1 Year

Result: No Yellowing or Discoloration of any kind.

Test Subject A2 - Moderate to High Humidity (less than 50% to 85%), 76-78 Degrees F, Partial Ambient Sunlight - Gray VF-1J ORIGINAL ISSUE Chest Plate (left half).

Location: McAllen, TX USA

Average Humidity - 78%

Average Growing Season - 360 Days / Year (i.e. SUNLIGHT all the time)

Method: Placed on Library Shelf in room without direct sunlight but with plenty of indirect sunlight.

Duration - 1 Year

RESULT: Noticeable Yellowing in all areas not covered with a decal or hidden by shadow.

Test Subject B2 - Low Humidity (less than 20%), 76-78 Degrees F, Partial Ambient Sunlight - Gray VF-1J ORIGINAL ISSUE Chest Plate (right half).

Location: Maricopa, AZ USA

Average Humidity - 18%

Average Growing Season - 360 Days / Year (i.e. SUNLIGHT all the time)

Method: Placed on Library Shelf in room without direct sunlight but with plenty of indirect sunlight.

Duration - 1 Year

RESULT: Noticeable Yellowing in all areas not covered with a decal or hidden by shadow.

____________

Conclusions: After one year of exposure to both extreme humidity and heat the only subjects that yellowed were those with exposure to UV light. Toys kept away from ambient light did not yellow regardless of temperature or humidity.

These results are identical to a previous five-year study involving white Bandai Jetfire toys exposed to ambient (indirect) sunlight on library shelves. The house used was air conditioned part of the year and left with windows open for the other part in a geographic region of East Texas with both high heat and moderate to high humidity. Areas hidden in shadow or covered with decals were not affected.

Humidity does not appear to cause any ill-effects during the time frame specified.

Conclusion: Heat and humidity ALONE are not enough to yellow plastic based on commonly encountered temperatures and humidity levels in desert and sub-tropic attics.

Edited July 21, 2006 by Skull-1

[Agent-GHQ]

Its starting to look like a science project Skull-1. And we greatly appreciate your well detailed research. Thanks bro! Now I got to really keep my Strike Valks 1/55 locked up in the closet.

Edited July 21, 2006 by Agent-GHQ

[Hurin]

Conclusion: Heat and humidity ALONE are not enough to yellow plastic based on commonly encountered temperatures and humidity levels in desert and sub-tropic attics.

Everything is great until the conclusion.

You cannot state, based on your evidence, that heat and humidity can't cause yellowing. You can state that you saw no evidence of yellowing within the timeframe of the study. But beyond that, it's speculation.

Saying that you observed no heat/humidy-caused yellowing over one (or five) years is not the same as saying that heat/humidity can't cause (or accelerate) yellowing over ten, fifteen (or even six) years.

Look, I'm no scientist. But I remember the basic rules of logic that dictate the scientific method. The experiments are valid and provide useful information. . . but then you jump to conclusions that aren't warranted.

So, really, all I'm saying is: Do you really want people to start storing their valks in warmer or more humid conditions based on your unfounded assertions? After fifteen years, you might feel awfully bad if you found out that your "one year study" (and anecdotal "five year study") didn't go far enough toward dismissing heat and humidity as long-term accelerants for yellowing. . . and then a bunch of people have prematurely yellow valks because of faulty reasoning and bad "science."

So, it just behooves you to be careful when making such definitive, broad statements that people might take to heart when storing their own valks.

Best,

H

P.S. My own belief is that yellowing is inevitable on (especially older) toys. The environment can accelerate the process. UV rays are an obvious accelerant. I doubt humidity or temperature have an accute effect. But I wouldn't be so sure that they may not accelerate things over the long-term. And, now in my thirties, I've lived long enough (and had valks long enough) to see yellowing on toys that I know have only ever been stored in darkness. I can't say it was heat and humidity. . . because there's another factor. . . time. . . and for all I know, time may be the only factor at play in those scenarios.

Edited July 21, 2006 by Hurin

[Skull-1]

Its starting to look like a science project Skull-1. And we greatly appreciate your well detailed research. Thanks bro! Now I got to really keep my Strike Valks 1/55 locked up in the closet.

418114[/snapback]

It kinda' was.

When someone said humidity caused yellowing I decided I would try to prove it one way or the other once I had the opportunity.

Having on house in the very hot and humid air of deep South Texas and another in the very hot and dry air of southern Arizona allowed me to try it out.

I plan to do one more round of experiments for a longer period of time once I move to San Antonio, Texas.

I am convinced that heat will cause plastic to change color--just hold a piece of plastic near a flame and see what it does--but I do not think an attic is hot enough to cause it.

Also, I am convinced that humidity has no effect on yellowing. My belief on humidity is that it will affect the "drying" of the plastic. In a drier climate the plastic will become brittle much sooner than in a humid environment.

What I was shocked at was how badly the discoloration affects even colored parts. I was hoping that my blue and red M&Ms would be immune to the effects of yellowing.

I am now certain they are not.

The only thing that will prevent a blue valk from turning colors other than UV protection is to have it painted.

[Skull-1]

Conclusion: Heat and humidity ALONE are not enough to yellow plastic based on commonly encountered temperatures and humidity levels in desert and sub-tropic attics.

Everything is great until the conclusion.

You cannot state, based on your evidence, that heat and humidity can't cause yellowing. You can state that you saw no evidence of yellowing within the timeframe of the study. But beyond that, it's speculation.

Saying that you observed no heat/humidy-caused yellowing over one (or five) years is not the same as saying that heat/humidity can't cause (or accelerate) yellowing over ten, fifteen (or even six) years.

Look, I'm no scientist. But I remember the basic rules of logic that dictate the scientific method. The experiments are valid and provide useful information. . . but then you jump to conclusions that aren't warranted.

418119[/snapback]

WRONG again.

The original experiment already disproves humidity as a factor.

I have a Jetfire that spent the years from 1986 to 1994 in a HIGH HUMIDITY ENVIRONMENT safely in a closet. When I pulled it out and placed it on my shelf along with two others (a Jetfire and an original Strike) it was BONE white.

The humidity over the next five years is not what caused it to yellow because it was in the *SAME* place.

What caused it to yellow in the years from 1994-2000 but NOT from 1986-1994? ----------> AMBIENT SUNLIGHT.

Only areas NOT COVERED BY STICKERS OR IN SHADOW turned yellow. The undersides of the back plate, insides of the gear wells, etc. etc. etc. DID NOT YELLOW despite VERY VERY HIGH HUMIDITY.

Conclusion: HUMIDITY DOES NOT AFFECT YELLOWING.

I want people to protect their toys from UV. This is *THE* killer of the plastics used in the Valkyries made by Bandai.

Edited July 21, 2006 by Skull-1

[Hurin]

Conclusion: HUMIDITY DOES NOT AFFECT YELLOWING.

418124[/snapback]

Suit yourself. You seem to be under the mistaken belief that you can prove a negative. You can't. But go on with your bad self. I just hope people don't behave foolishly based on your "research."

H

[Skull-1]

P.S.  My own belief is that yellowing is inevitable on (especially older) toys.  The environment can accelerate the process.  UV rays are an obvious accelerant.  I doubt humidity or temperature have an accute effect.  But I wouldn't be so sure that they may not accelerate things over the long-term.  And, now in my thirties, I've lived long enough (and had valks long enough) to see yellowing on toys that I know have only ever been stored in darkness.  I can't say it was heat and humidity. . . because there's another factor. . . time. . . and for all I know, time may be the only factor at play in those scenarios.

418119[/snapback]

I believe that if yellowing is inevitable it is caused by the chemicals that make up the plastic. No doubt they "release" over time and cause some change.

But the most dramatic changes are clearly due directly to UV.

[Skull-1]

Conclusion: HUMIDITY DOES NOT AFFECT YELLOWING.

418124[/snapback]

Suit yourself. You seem to be under the mistaken belief that you can prove a negative. You can't. But go on with your bad self. I just hope people don't behave foolishly based on your "research."

H

418125[/snapback]

I am trying to get people to place UV protective coatings on their display cases. That action is in no way foolish.

[Hurin]

I am trying to get people to place UV protective coatings on their display cases.  That action is in no way foolish.

418128[/snapback]

You are also stating, absolutely and unequivocally, that you have scientifically proven that heat and humidity have no effect on yellowing.

No scientist would back that conclusion based on your research. You can't prove a negative. You can say that something is "unlikely" to have an effect. Or you can say that you did not witness a discernable effect within the timeframe of your "study." But you can't make bold, conclusive, unequivocal statements about timeframes that fall outside the scope of your (rapidly increasing in number) "studies."

It's Science 101 dude. You can't prove a negative. You're making "conclusions" that your data doesn't prove.

[Skull-1]

"Rapidly increasing number of studies"?? WTF is that supposed to mean?

This was all based on the original details I cited two years ago.

There was one "accidental" study and this one.

I have demonstrated that humidity is not what causes a Valk to turn yellow.

PERIOD.

If humidity caused yellowing then the parts of the Valkyrie that are *NOT* exposed to sunlight but *ARE* exposed to humidity would turn yellow.

From 1986-to now the Valkyrie that got all of this rolling in the first place is just as white on the inside as it ever was. This is while residing in the highly humid and hot air of Texas for the entire time. Yes, 1986-2007 is TWENTY-ONE *YEARS*.

The parts in shadow and under decals are just as white as they ever were.

Draw your own conclusions. If humidity is going to cause a toy to yellow I dare say that after 20 years it would have done so.

Edited July 21, 2006 by Skull-1

[Skull-1]

Also it should be noted......

Even areas that are covered with decals *WILL* yellow THROUGH the clear sections of the decal.

Example: Vernier Thruster Circles. The bisecting thruster line will show yellow underneat it because the sticker material does not block UV. However the colored sections of the decal "shade" the plastic.

Meanwhile, gear bays and areas not exposed to sunlight (this toy was in fighter and Gerwalk modes for its entire existence) are bone white. Opening the Battroid Head Hatch reveals that the arms and innner segments of the dorsal plate are bone white. *BONE* *WHITE*.

Humidity can still penetrate these areas yet they are *BONE* white after more than TWENTY YEARS.

BONE WHITE.

Edited July 21, 2006 by Skull-1

[GrimlockCW]

dumb question, i had all my valks on the same shelf in my old barracks room for awhile, only one that yellowed was the VF-11B i had sitting in fighter (so it looks funny in any other mode now ) yet my 1/48 1S didn't change at all... same with my 1/60 1J

is it a differance in plastic used?

or should i now hang something over the shelf their on now and keep'em from being hit with the bar light thingy my new rooms uses?

Edited July 21, 2006 by GrimlockCW

[Skull-1]

I don't have any spare 1/48 parts with which I am willing to test but I am certain the plastics *are* different.

I can tell by the way they handle when sanded and shaved with razors that the composition is different.

This is very likely (and hopefully for our benefit) going to change the way Yamatos yellow in relation to Bandais.

[Hurin]

Draw your own conclusions.

Apparently, we have to. Because your conclusions don't match your findings.

Of course, when you originally stated your "findings," we weren't capable of drawing our own conclusions because you hadn't supplied any of your "data." We were supposed to just take your word for it and stop concering ourselves with where we stored our valks as long as it was dark.

If humidity is going to cause a toy to yellow I dare say that after 20 years it would have done so.

Weren't we also discussing heat?. . . but I digress. . .

Is it not also possible that some valks (within the same line) were made with a higher quality of plastic less prone to yellowing? is it not also possible that some valks might have higher quality paint less prone to yellowing? There are more factors possibly at play here than you're acknowledging. Before you could even being to approach such definitive conclusions, a lot more "testing" would have to be done.

Incidentally, I've had two valks, stored identically, yellow at entirely different rates (while some of my Joke Machines yellowed and some didn't at all). Some have noticed yellowing with valks that have always been in cool, dry, dark places. Others have noted no yellowing with any combination of the above. So, given all the variables and factors, is it not possible that you got "lucky" in that your "humidly stored" valk didn't yellow? Honestly, I find it odd that you seem so dead-set against moderating (at the very least) the definitive nature of your findings to be more in-line with what the evidence actually proves.

"Rapidly increasing number of studies"?? WTF is that supposed to mean?

It means that you seem to keep pulling longer and longer duration tests out of your butt. First one year. Then five years. Now twenty-one years. . .

There was one "accidental" study and this one.

I think you mean "anecdotal."

Best,

H

Edited July 21, 2006 by Hurin

[Skull-1]

Hurin = Apparently, we have to. Because your conclusions don't match your findings.

They most certainly do.

_________

Hurin =Of course, when you originally stated your "findings," we weren't capable of drawing our own conclusions because you hadn't supplied any of your "data." We were supposed to just take your word for it and stop concering ourselves with where we stored our valks as long as it was dark.

Oh, so I am a liar now? I get it.

_________

Weren't we also discussing heat?. . . but I digress. . .

Indeed we were which is why I placed the control subjects in HUMIDITY, SHADOW, *AND* HEAT (an attic) to see if yellowing would occur. It did not.

During the "accidental study" THREE *DIFFERENT* VALKYRIES were exposed to heat and humidty over varying levels of time. (All of this was purely by accident, but I have expanded upon the details in response to your "Doubting Thomas" attitude. This study was in fact posted about on the OLD MWorld forums with photos. It is not an invented study.)

Despite varying plastics (three different Valkyries - Bandai Jetfire, Matsushiro Jetfire, and Bandai Strike) and exposure to heat and humidity in storage... Yellowing *ONLY* occurred (on all three I may add) when exposed to indirect sunlight.

_________

Is it not also possible that some valks (within the same line) were made with a higher quality of plastic less prone to yellowing? is it not also possible that some valks might have higher quality paint less prone to yellowing? There are more factors possibly at play here than you're acknowledging. Before you could even being to approach such definitive conclusions, a lot more "testing" would have to be done.

Addressed above over a period of 21 years, 19 years, and 18 years respectively (Bandai, Matsu, Bandai Strike).

_________

Incidentally, I've had two valks, stored identically, yellow at entirely different rates (while some of my Joke Machines yellowed and some didn't at all). Some have noticed yellowing with valks that have always been in cool, dry, dark places.

Then it may very well be the dryness that is causing them to yellow and not, as you suggest, high humidity.

_________

"Rapidly increasing number of studies"?? WTF is that supposed to mean?

It means that you seem to keep pulling longer and longer duration tests out of your butt. First one year. Then five years. Now twenty-one years. . .

This study was mentioned numerous times over the years on the old MW forums when I was "Sand Pebble One". There are numerous people here who will vouch for my credibility on this point. I still have the original pictures I took of this study somewhere.

_________

There was one "accidental" study and this one.

I think you mean "anecdotal."

No, I mean ACCIDENTAL. I did not intend for it to be a 21-year study it just happened to work out that way. At the time the Valks were removed from storage and placed on the shelf I was completely unaware of yellowing. It was only after a few years of them sitting on the shelf that I noticed they were turning colors and thought, "What the hell is going on here?".

It was an accidental but highly enlightening study, albeit at the expense of two highly valued toys (my Bandai Strike and my Matsushiro Jetfire).

Live and learn.

Edited July 21, 2006 by Skull-1

[Hurin]

Sigh. . . look, there's just no getting through you to you. You're impervious to logic and seem somewhat ignorant of proper scientific method (in a nutshell, you use the word "prove" entirely too liberally and discount other possible reasons for the outcome of your "experiments" as well as contradictory findings by others). At this point, I'd just be repeating myself.

I trust that anyone even moderately trained in the proper use of the scientific method (or even rudimentary logic) will see what I'm talking about above.

Best,

H

Edited July 22, 2006 by Hurin

[Skull-1]

I have posited a theory backed up by research with multiple variables.

I have done so entirely as a public service.

*YOU* are attached to some mythology about humidity. If you wish to conduct a similar bit of research we will all be interested to hear your findings.

In the meantime......

HUMIDITY DOES NOT YELLOW VALKYRIES, UV LIGHT DOES.

Other factors OUTSIDE the realm of humidity that have as yet gone untested are:

- TOBACCO SMOKE

- PLASTIC BREAKDOWN OVER TIME

- *LOW* HUMIDITY

- AIR POLLUTION

After 21 years and counting my Valkyries with shaded parts are as white as when new DESPITE being in the second most humid environment in the United States.

If you live anywhere North of McAllen, Texas your Valkyries are safe from humidity damage.

You can take that to the bank.

Those of you with YELLOWED Valkyries that were *NOT* exposed to light......

I would be interested to see if the yellowing is INTERNAL as well.

To date, with over 30 Bandai Valks of all manufacturing dates and classes (and in varying stages of yellowing) NOT *ONE* has yellowed inside the legs or gear wells. NOT *ONE*. Parts shielded from light remain white.

Edited July 22, 2006 by Skull-1

[Hurin]

*You* are the one attached to humidity. I keep talking about heat *and* humidity. You keep just focusing on humidity. I personally don't believe that humidity has much (if anything) to do with yellowing. But, it's also a fact that you haven't proven that it doesn't.

Regardless, you really seem like you're from Mars or something because you just can't seem to grasp simple concepts like: "scientists never claim to have proven a negative because it's never possible to be certain that they are aware of (and have accounted for) all possible factors."

I really don't think you understand what: "You can't prove a negative" means. . . and it's a principal tenant underpinning the scientific method. That's my only explanation for your errors here and attitude.

I'm glad that the inner thigh of your valkyries are still white. However, that doesn't really account for how valks yellow at all when stored in total darkness. And, believe it or not, there are possibly alternative explanations for why the inner thighs don't yellow. Anything from a flaw in how the plastic is cured, the manufacturing or painting process, to air circulation within the original factory boxes, or similar circulation around storage boxes. . . perhaps exacerbated by the mode in which the valkyrie is stored. The point is, I don't know, and neither do you. Because . . . wait for it. . .

It's impossible to prove a negative.

H

P.S. And you haven't "posited a theory" (as you put it). . . you've stated a conclusion that is absolute. And that's the problem.

Edited July 22, 2006 by Hurin

[Hurin]

I have done so entirely as a public service.

How much of a public service will it have been if people take your conclusions (stated as scientifically proven fact) and store their valkryies in their hot attics, only to find fifteen years later that their valks have yellowed more than they otherwise would have?

[GrimlockCW]

i vote for Skull-1 as he's got more to backup his work

all them edits from gutsandcasca seem true thus far....

and cause he was only trying to be legitametly helpful and less objectionitive about things.

/ignore Hurin

"ignoring hurin*

i wish boreds had them functions like games

[Hurin]

i vote for Skull-1 as he's got more to backup his work

all them edits from gutsandcasca seem true thus far....

and cause he was only trying to be legitametly helpful and less objectionitive about things.

/ignore Hurin

"ignoring hurin*

i wish boreds had them functions like games 

418164[/snapback]

There is an ignore function. Feel free to put me in there. And I'll shut up now. If you want to start storing your valkyries where it's hot, go ahead. Skull-1 said it's fine.

H

[GrimlockCW]

There is an ignore function.  Feel free to put me in there.  And I'll shut up now.  If you want to start storing your valkyries where it's hot, go ahead.  Skull-1 said it's fine.

H

418167[/snapback]

really? wierd.. never knew that honestly

BTW it was more of a joke, i rarely ignore anyone, as it makes me miss half a conversation

i had my valks (all but my 1/48 1S and 1/60 1J, 1A max and VF11B) stored in a small part of my parents house roof (yeah, in da roof! lol, crawlspace/attic really) they were subjected to tempretures in excess of 100 degree F or more and humidity levels i couldn't count for over 4.5 years, with minor ambiant sunlight from a small vent in the space, and worst damage was peeling decals and boxes kinda glued themselves to one another (my YF-21 box actually left a mark on the wall) and not one of them yellowed, as where a figure i've had less than 2 years sat on a shelf in a barracks room that had AC and LOW humidity levels, yellowed nicely on its top (only as it was in fighter mode as mentioned above)

i know the BKS had dehumidifiers as

A. i'd wake up constantly with a dry throat and nasal cavity, stoopid nose bleeds would ensue

B. they placed them in the rooms for the showers, so they wouldn't end up moisture rotting the tiles/walls

C. i've seen the bloody things and wanted to rip it out of the ceiling when i had the chance while the techs were there draining them and fixing the heating (which they never did for the whole 2.5 years i was in that particular bks)

ahh the days of waking up seriously dehydrated... thank heavens i left that place...

Edit: i should also add in that same storage at my parents i had several other items that actually melted from the heat..... grrrr

Edited July 22, 2006 by GrimlockCW

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Just call that one a custom battle damaged valk. (the fighter got a bit close to the sdf1 main gun while firing but otherwise survived)

[fulcy]

Sigh, enough boys.