Zentraedi Naval Vessel - Thuverl Salan

[chrono]

Real Life can be such a pain-in-the-hobby sometimes. I may have gotten away from working on this model, but that was temporary. Now I'm back on it and have over come alot of the bigger hull shape problems. I'm still refining the hull, but I've also been working on some of the larger details to keep the build moving along.

The history so far can be found:

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...ic=10894&st=130

Anyways C&C is welcome.

*photoshop because the board refused to take them*

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/chr...0rearbotang.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/chr...30frobotang.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/chr...sTS30topang.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/chr...ossTS30Side.png

[Rodavan]

Real life ......... pain in the .......

Good to see you working on a Macross model again , looking good .

[chrono]

Thanks Rodavan!

I've developed a love/hate relationship with Macross designs. I really love the designs, but it's insane trying to figure them out for 3D stuff!

[Mr March]

Who was the fella that did one of these a few years back? His was really good. He got as far as coloring it green, then never heard anything from him again.

[chrono]

That was probably me Mr March.

A small Saturday update. I'm continuing to add the larger details and more minor corrections.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/chr...4botrearang.png

*i've got to find out wtf the problem is with my images and why this board refuses to except them*

[Mr March]

That was probably me Mr March.

418363[/snapback]

Is this the fella?

[chrono]

Yep shes mine.

That image was a pre-trench detail color test that took stupid long ta render. Something like 8-10 hours. Man... I'm so gonna re-build that ship when I'm done with all of the Zen ships. Seeing all those errors is kinda embrassing.

And an image for an image. This will be the last update for the weekend and it pretty much ends the building of the larger detail parts. Now I have to do some more work on what some of the shapes are on the concept art. Stuff like is that a panel line or a raised panel, PIA stuff really so I'll lean on you guys for clarity.

[sketchley]

I've developed a love/hate relationship with Macross designs. I really love the designs, but it's insane trying to figure them out for 3D stuff!

417975[/snapback]

Probably because they were designed for 2-D animation. I think Masamune Shirow mentioned this in one of his art books - there are so many things that artists can get away with in 2-D, but can't in 3-D.

IMHO, I suggest doing something that is more representative of what is seen in the lineart/animation, and not an exact copy (which is probably impossible...) take the VF-0 as precedent: the existing VF-1 doesn't work in 3-D so they redesigned it until it did work.

[chrono]

sketchley,

Yep very true! There is a limit to the 2D - 3D conversion that always crops up. It just can't be avoided even on the most detailed of draws. I learned that lesson throughly with with the Zen Picket ship and it was reinforced on the Gnerl project and now the Salan. But then they are concept art!

[sketchley]

I suggest going to the 'mood' or the 'feel' (can't think of the right word here...) of the original images (and not exact copies.)

I did something along those lines with the VF-5 design that I whipped up - viewable here - if you notice the position of things move in the different views of the fighter, and the parts of the battroid don't quite match up with the same parts in the fighter mode.

[Mr March]

Yep shes mine.

That image was a pre-trench detail color test that took stupid long ta render. Something like 8-10 hours. Man... I'm so gonna re-build that ship when I'm done with all of the Zen ships. Seeing all those errors is kinda embrassing. 

418431[/snapback]

Ah, so that was you. Always wondered what happened. By re-build, am I to understand the 3D model pcitured in my post is no more? That's a shame. I guess i'll have to delete this picture and the non-colored 5 views I have, since it'll never be finished. I wish you best of luck with this new fella. I'm eager to see the results.

[chrono]

Oh no she still exists!

I didn't lose her. I meant that I plan on coming back to the design and building another, better looking, model of it. There were tons of nagging little things that I didn't or couldn't polish to the degree I really wanted to. Maybe sometime next year...

[Mr March]

Ah, I see. Well, that's encouraging. I hope to see more then.

I hate to sound like an unaware layman, but to me the model looked fantastic. I'm not sure what it is that bothers the eye of a more technically proficient person such as yourself, but the model looked great. Perhaps it's the lack of any 3D model of the Zentradi craft prior to yours (at least, not that I'm aware of).

[chrono]

I'd say that it's the lack of design awareness that alot of exposure gives. Also the builder is always more aware of the problems then the viewer generally is. So it's not so much as unaware laymanship, but one of lacking exposure. Remember all of the people who gripped about the VF's in that PS2 RT game?

[chrono]

Alrightly, here's a question that the informed almong you could answer for me. I need to know if the following 2 images are actually 'offical' art or just fan art. This is important because I've got 7 questions left, about various little details, and these two images answer 6 of them!

[sketchley]

The upper one is an original. The lowerone is a copy of an original. For the untrained eye, it's the same. But on closer inspection there are some changes (the shading (specifically engine blocks) being the biggest.)

Here's a scan of the original artwork:

[chrono]

Thanks for the scan, but I've got most of the Macross artbook(sans Macross Zero) and that covers 99.5 percent of the older material(to M.Zero).

So Studio Nue is offical material then!! Well then takes care of the one image and I'll take the other with a grain of salt and see which version of the area that i'm questioning will look better.

Thanks!

[sketchley]

Studio Nue is as official as one is going to get when it comes to Macross - they are the studio that originated the series after all.

[chrono]

I've been working on the ventral & stern surface details along with rebuilding a set of new man. thrusters. Most of the work for the last few days has been sleuthing out the details and making decisions on how to approach them. Totally anal retentive stuff, but it's the stuff that makes these things look nice at the projects end.

I will need some help on something. In the last image where the big 'X' points too is a large problem that I can't seem to figure out, so any suggestions on it would be great!

New thruster.

LARGE render of the progress made.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/chr...0botrearang.jpg

Examples of the hoops I've jumped through. LOL

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/chrono2005/Layout.jpg

[chrono]

ReScaling before the the primary hull gets permanently smoothed. Probably the last time for awhile that the full ship will be seen. Because of the amount of polygons involved I've broken up the mesh into 3 peices so it makes working on the hull easier.

[Hiriyu]

Nice work as always, chrono

BTW, I'm the one that tagged you over at the Infinity forum yesterday... Hello again.

[Mr March]

Purty Me like, me like

[chrono]

@Hiriyu, lol! so that was you huh. Hope you have fun over there! Me, I'm just there to look at the designs and laugh at the wannbe game designs.

MILESTONE ARCHIEVED!

Yesterday I started carving into the ventral amidships of this project with concerns about the size of the concept arts panel lines. This has always been an issue that's floated around in the back of my mind and one that could cause tons of headaches if not down well the first time.

Well it's now a NON-issue! Using my Picket model I used the size of one key panel lines, that was in the concept art, and used it on the larger ship. BINGO!!! Dancing & Drinking Time!! The size is PERFECT which means I now have the correct panel line sizes for the next 4 models!!! This means not only is this panel line size good to use that also makes lesser panel lines useable, but EVERY previous detail greeble from the Picket model!!! This will save me positively HUGH amounts of building time and design time!

The 2 images are minimal but they show a close-up and a distance shot of the test.

[Rodavan]

very nice !

Wish I had time to model

[chrono]

Minor update. I've been adding the major seams, but it's been really time consuming(i've soooo got to upgrade my comp).

Screen capture

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/chrono2005/update.jpg

[chrono]

No this project isn't dead.

I have most of the amidships trenchs worked into the hull and am working on getting the thruster deflector built, but wanted to run the build by you guys before I make it permanent.

[Mr March]

Just had a thought; you don't need any lineart reference do you? Based on your work so far, the thing looks dead on which means you've probably already got some good reference pictures. But I just came into a bunch of high resolution line art, so I thought I'd ask if you need it.

[chrono]

Ah! Sorry for the later reply MM. I'm good for references, since I've got the older books and RT videos.

Finally got some of the truely worst hull trenchs done! Now I only have to put in 4 more and the Stern will be done trench wise(in on the top center area & 2 on the inside of the nacelle, all of which is straight forward stuff.

But anyways as you can see this hull area is severely off in it's proportions. Sadly most of the ships hull is this way, which is why the 1 really long trench line is off. (I'm too far into the model though to casually re-do it(i'd love to but no freaking way!), so it's staying.)

After I get those final trenchs done I've got some minor bottom geometry to clean-up and have to build the 3 main top turrets and at least 1 of the smaller ones to finish up the Amidships trenchs that remain.

And finally on the detail front I've developed 12 more hull greebles models, have about 8-15 more drawn out, and am looking at pulling about 5-20 more from another image. So I'll have about 25-40 greebles to work with for this model instead of the 5 I had for the Picket.

[Zinjo]

That is going to be one sexy ship when she's done!

[Mr March]

No problem chrono. Your work is coming along nicely.

[chrono]

I ended up finding even more trenchs some how.... LOL! Stern trench work is done!

[Rodavan]

Like the first world war - fighting in the trenches

Looking good

[Gammera]

I think your crazy for actually modeling in the trenches! I think a bump map would be a whole lot easier, looks great though.

[scott8539]

man this things going to look sweet!!!

[chrono]

I think your crazy for actually modeling in the trenches! I think a bump map would be a whole lot easier, looks great though.

Even high res bump mapping looks horrible and is really an 'easy way out' for some people. Bump mapping is for animation and gaming, but not for static imagery. With Normal mapping bump maps are nearly an obsolete item.

Besides which looks better: an extensively detailed model or an extensively decaled one?

@Rodavan, dude I can't believe you said that!!!