Perhaps Theres A Way? Ot Forum Maybe?

[do not disturb]

i was having a discussion with one of my friends regarding a off topic section here on MW, and we came up with a possible solution.

now even though i'm against having an off topic forum, how about an off topic thread? meaning one thread where everyone and anyone can post their off topic thoughts?

i think it would be fairly easy(just guessing) to moderate since its all in one thread and one thread only, kind of like the technology thread. i know it'll get crazy if theres 20 different conversations going on at once but i figured its a good way for the admin/mods to meet the members half way.

anyway, i know this topic has been beaten to death but i think its a good and fair compromise to please both sides of the camp.

your thoughts?

[azrael]

Look Here: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=19545

And we did have an off-topic thread, the Longest thread. In the end, it didn't work thanks to 2 people.

Edited July 17, 2006 by azrael

[JsARCLIGHT]

Ah the Longest Thread... it was pretty darn fun until people messed it up. Lessons learned, I guess.

[do not disturb]

Look Here: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=19545

And we did have an off-topic thread, the Longest thread. In the end, it didn't work thanks to 2 people.

416907[/snapback]

thanks for the link from last week hehehe, but i already posted my thoughts a off topic section (i say nay!), this is about having a single off topic thread.

i don't ever remember seeing "the longest thread", i guess i missed it? but if you tried it once and it didn't work, then screw it. i was just trying to reach a middle ground for the yays and nays, can't blame me for trying.

added:

just did a search for "longest thread" and came up with THIS

i take it no ones opinion has changed since then, people waving shotguns and all.

Edited July 17, 2006 by haterist

[JsARCLIGHT]

It's not so much that it "didn't work" as much as it was very difficult to moderate, it was near impossible to follow what was going on, people abused it right and left and in the end all it took was a handful of really bad eggs to ruin it for everyone. If I had the powers to do so I'd gladly volunteer to try to moderate another "Longest Thread" just so people would have one again but in reality it was a total clusterf#ck and on many levels I fear another one... several conversations going on at once, the occasional nonsense post, people spamming just to boost their post count, you name it. In the end the Longest Thread quickly became an example of how everything potentially wrong with an OT section can go wrong. In a sense the Longest Thread was MW's "Beta test" of a pure OT section and it crashed in flames.

[the white drew carey]

In a sense the Longest Thread was MW's "Beta test" of a pure OT section and it crashed in flames.

416937[/snapback]

Wait a sec... I may be mistaken, but I thought MW DID have an Off Topic Forum a long time ago. That was eventually dropped and The Longest Thread became a psuedo-replacement.

Then again, I may be wrong.

[azrael]

In a sense the Longest Thread was MW's "Beta test" of a pure OT section and it crashed in flames.

416937[/snapback]

Wait a sec... I may be mistaken, but I thought MW DID have an Off Topic Forum a long time ago. That was eventually dropped and The Longest Thread became a psuedo-replacement.

Then again, I may be wrong.

416989[/snapback]

We did until it became filled with politics and religion...Shawn got very angry at us and limited the talk to "geek talk". It's been like that ever since. Our attempt to remedy that was to make the Longest thread (we also did that to test how much the forum system could take, which back in the days of Perl/CGI forums, we were pushing it) We let it go on, and on, and on, and then someone said the wrong thing, someone replied to it, and the rest is history.

[sketchley]

I've been a member on another forum for a long, long time. Politics and religion reared their ugly head. Feelings got not only hurt, but crushed. People didn't talk to each other. Friendships were ruined.

They instituted a 'geek talk' only rule to the place... but it was too late.

Trust me, geek talk and keeping things close to the topic is the only way to go. It keeps us all friends (or at least friendly.)

[JsARCLIGHT]

In a sense the Longest Thread was MW's "Beta test" of a pure OT section and it crashed in flames.

416937[/snapback]

Wait a sec... I may be mistaken, but I thought MW DID have an Off Topic Forum a long time ago. That was eventually dropped and The Longest Thread became a psuedo-replacement.

Then again, I may be wrong.

416989[/snapback]

We did until it became filled with politics and religion...Shawn got very angry at us and limited the talk to "geek talk". It's been like that ever since. Our attempt to remedy that was to make the Longest thread (we also did that to test how much the forum system could take, which back in the days of Perl/CGI forums, we were pushing it) We let it go on, and on, and on, and then someone said the wrong thing, someone replied to it, and the rest is history.

417046[/snapback]

I had just started coming to MW when the original OT forum was around but I don't remember it being an open free for all OT section. Then again I never seriously looked in there as I was only here to read Macross stuff at that time and OT was the furthest thing from my wants of this place. My first experiences with total, free for all uncontrolled OT on MW was the Longest Thread... and hooo boy was that a trip. If it was any indication I can only imagine how bad the "original" OT forum was... and that was all on a relatively small board at the time. Today we have five times the people, which makes me think we'll have five times the potential for trouble.

[pfunk]

I've been a member on another forum for a long, long time.  Politics and religion reared their ugly head.  Feelings got not only hurt, but crushed.  People didn't talk to each other.  Friendships were ruined.

They instituted a 'geek talk' only rule to the place... but it was too late.

Trust me, geek talk and keeping things close to the topic is the only way to go.  It keeps us all friends (or at least friendly.)

417098[/snapback]

oh my god, it wasnt that bad. it started with someone making coments about the bible and someone else just brought it to "someones" attention and it was dealt with accordingly

[azrael]

oh my god, it wasnt that bad. it started with someone making coments about the bible and someone else just brought it to "someones" attention and it was dealt with accordingly

417150[/snapback]

Really? I remember the bible stuff and the guy brought it up a few other times as well and no one cared until someone responded to him, argued with him, and then it was brought up as an issue when he won't shut up about it. Shawn then prohibited all talk of religion and politics.

[do not disturb]

why not incorporate an instant ban for those who flame/argue in that articular thread? that would keep the majority of members in order and if someone does come in to make waves, they'll quickly get the boot and that would be the end of it. no explaination needs to be given, you argue, you flame, you leave for good, its that simple.

anyway, i know this is a dead issue, theres definitely more nays than yays but i appreciate everyones responses nonetheless.

[bsu legato]

For the love of Zombie Jesus, let this topic die people.

[Mr March]

Nah, I hate those super threads. I avoid them like the plague. Way, WAY too much to read through just to get a few blurbs of useful information.

[Macross73]

Nah, I hate those super threads.  I avoid them like the plague.  Way, WAY too much to read through just to get a few blurbs of useful information.

417174[/snapback]

what useful information?

For the love of Zombie Jesus, let this topic die people.

417169[/snapback]

R.I.P!

[Mr March]

what useful information?

Touché

Edited July 19, 2006 by Mr March

[the white drew carey]

The problem with not having an O/T thread is that the mods are then forced to make judgments on what can stay and what can't. Just looking at the first 50 threads in Anime and SciFi we have a thread about the "babes of ADV" which has been locked for various reasons, yet we have a "Jessica Biel Auction" thread which still survives even though it's one link to anything sci-fi is that she was in Stealth. We have a long-running automotive thread as well as the continuation of the long running aircraft thread, both of which are so grounded in reality to be the antethesis of sci-fi, yet they are allowed to run their course.

My point being is that there are many threads which are clearly O/T and are allowed to continue and thrive. The reasons that some threads are killed while others are allowed to flourish rest on the mods and the continuation of their existence can sometimes be attributed to actual interpretation of the set guidelines, and other times have clearly been favoritism or lack of it.

Someone earlier mentioned that they don't post much at other forums. I'm that way, too. I don't care for the people at most other forums, and I consider many of the people here to be the closest thing you can get to online friends.

We are a community, and as a community many of us may want to discuss things that fall outside of what is now determined as acceptable subject matter. Sometimes we'll post it anyways and hope that a mod finds it acceptable, or likes us personally, or any other myriad reasons to let it run it's course.

If the current mods don't want to deal with an O/T section, ask for volunteers, or nominate some long-standing members who will be willing to patrol said section and keep it in line. At the least, it would be a worthy experiment; at the worst it'll fall apart and the whole O/T idea will go away for a couple months or so.

It's true, O/T threads can be dirty places. But that's because, being O/T, most forums don't put effort into patrolling it. We here at MW respect and revere our sence of community and, most probably, will patrol it in a more vigilant manner than the other threads receive.

Then again, if the Admins say no, that's that.

Just my two cents.

Edited July 19, 2006 by the white drew carey

[sketchley]

I think a closer look should be taken into why some threads are locked, and others are allowed to continue. In the cases that you mentioned, TWDC, the Babes thread was killed because:

Well since the pics are all coming from the same place and there's only one person posting them then it's not really a thread that serves the community.

Besides, it's seems to me that some people here are more interested in a few good men rather than babes...

I interpret that as 1 person talking to himself, when a simple pointer link would suffice, and the ongoing actual conversation of the thread was on an entirely different topic. In other words - it doesn't serve the community.

the other threads are 'allowed' to continue, because they appear to be more than one member adding to them, they're relatively on-topic discussions, and the discussions aren't getting out of hand (into the dubious discussion topic zone, nor being hijacked and going off topic.) Does that make sense? (seriously... lack of coffee at the moment... no idea if what I'm blithering on about makes any sense.)

Edited July 19, 2006 by sketchley

[the white drew carey]

I think a closer look should be taken into why some threads are locked, and others are allowed to continue.  In the cases that you mentioned, TWDC, the Babes thread was killed because:

Well since the pics are all coming from the same place and there's only one person posting them then it's not really a thread that serves the community.

Besides, it's seems to me that some people here are more interested in a few good men rather than babes...

I interpret that as 1 person talking to himself, when a simple pointer link would suffice, and the ongoing actual conversation of the thread was on an entirely different topic. In other words - it doesn't serve the community.

the other threads are 'allowed' to continue, because they appear to be more than one member adding to them, they're relatively on-topic discussions, and the discussions aren't getting out of hand (into the dubious discussion topic zone, nor being hijacked and going off topic.) Does that make sense? (seriously... lack of coffee at the moment... no idea if what I'm blithering on about makes any sense.)

417313[/snapback]

Question- Did YOU actually look at all the people who posted? No offense to >EXO<, but regardless of where the pics were coming from, there were many people replying to that thread (many posters=discussion), and even if there were posts about dudes, they 1) weren't enough to derail the thread yet, and 2) I've never seen a rule here on MW outlawing homosexuality (alhough I know they were joking [at least... most of them...]).

And I'm not a fool, but thanks for explaining why the other threads are "allowed" to continue. Yet, you weren't around when the O/T mess exploded in the first place. Regardless of how On-Topic the aircraft or automotive threads are to their subject matter, they still DO NOT FALL UNDER THE HEADING OF "ANIME AND SCIFI." The rules were put in place and, I was under the impression when that happened, that they'd be strictly enforced. But that is clearly not the case.

Basically, if MW wants to tout that it does not allow O/T discussion, than these threads simply should not exist!

Allowing some O/T threads to run while others are shut down simply shows an inconcistency in regards to the interpretation and/or enforcement of the rules. In the long run, it make MW looks like it's run on hypocrisy.

I may be bringing my sense of beliefs into this, but I'm strongly of the opinion that rules cannot be selectively enforced. What's good for the goose better well be damned good for the gander. Otherwise the rules and guidelines are simply a sick joke.

[sketchley]

The rules are a sick goat, and the guidelines are just that - guidelines.

Another way to look at it is that if they locked down everything that went off topic, the community here would be crushed due to the 'off topic gestapo' and everyone would go elsewhere.

[JsARCLIGHT]

All this talk of rules and regulations... let's look at the actual rules per the MW TOS:

Section II: Off Topic

Be here for the discussion of Macross. Please don?t go off topic. If your post or topic is not about Macross then it can be considered off topic and can be deleted at anytime. The closer your post is to Macross the better chance it has of staying. Don?t try to use Macross terms to talk about an off topic post. Adding the names of Macross characters to your topic about oral sex doesn't make it on topic.

As a general rule we sometimes allows one or two semi off topics per forum. There is even forums more geared towards off topic subjects. Even these forums have their limits if a moderator feels that there is too many new topics they will randomly deleted some. In some cases there is a specific topic for all other short off topics to fall under.

The rules say nothing about OT talk being outright banned or prohibited, just that threads that are OT can be deleted at any time. As for the Other Anime section, the "rules" for that section as laid out by Roy and the Admins are that it covers anything "that geeks like to talk about". Why one thing stays and one thing goes is a judgement call by the mods. That judgement call in no way violates the rules as the only thing the rules clearly state is that "OT topics can be deleted at any time" or "randomly deleted" or consolodated into a larger topic.

I still don't see what the fuss is about. The Other Anime section is about ten inches away from being an open OT forum. From what I have seen, almost anything goes in that section for a certain period of time given it is not completely innane or pointless. Goofy threads get locked and yes other threads that may have merrit get locked but in the end most of them stay open (or stay open long enough to run their course). What exactly do people want to talk about with such fervor that these "we demand OT" threads keep coming up? Do people really have this insatiable desire to ask each other about how their day was? To talk about how to bake cookies, debate about the benefits of using jet dry in their dish washer or what shoe polish each other uses? Are we all really that bored?

As I have said before, folks just come out and say what you want to talk about. If it is something worthwhile then perhaps we can reach some kind of concession...

[EXO]

The "Babes of ADV" was allowed to stay open for a while, either it died on it's own or it was eventually going to be locked. As for the Jessica Biel thread, the same rule or "guideline" applies. Though Jessica Biel is can only be related to Stealth, she's a figure in many of this site's geek's fantasies and one of them hooking up with her would be purely science fiction.

[pfunk]

Adding the names of Macross characters to your topic about oral sex doesn't make it on topic.

hehe, best quote ever

[JsARCLIGHT]

That's not me, that's all Roy from the MW TOS.

[TheLoneWolf]

All this talk of rules and regulations... let's look at the actual rules per the MW TOS:

Section II: Off Topic

Be here for the discussion of Macross. Please don?t go off topic. If your post or topic is not about Macross then it can be considered off topic and can be deleted at anytime. The closer your post is to Macross the better chance it has of staying. Don?t try to use Macross terms to talk about an off topic post. Adding the names of Macross characters to your topic about oral sex doesn't make it on topic.

As a general rule we sometimes allows one or two semi off topics per forum. There is even forums more geared towards off topic subjects. Even these forums have their limits if a moderator feels that there is too many new topics they will randomly deleted some. In some cases there is a specific topic for all other short off topics to fall under.

The rules say nothing about OT talk being outright banned or prohibited, just that threads that are OT can be deleted at any time. As for the Other Anime section, the "rules" for that section as laid out by Roy and the Admins are that it covers anything "that geeks like to talk about". Why one thing stays and one thing goes is a judgement call by the mods. That judgement call in no way violates the rules as the only thing the rules clearly state is that "OT topics can be deleted at any time" or "randomly deleted" or consolodated into a larger topic.

417415[/snapback]

The above paragraphs can be summed up into a new title for the OT forum:

OT Sci-Fi Threads That Don't Displease Roy

The sooner people learn to accept it, the easier MW will be to deal with. I'm sure that Roy would love the new title too.

[azrael]

What exactly do people want to talk about with such fervor that these "we demand OT" threads keep coming up? Do people really have this insatiable desire to ask each other about how their day was? To talk about how to bake cookies, debate about the benefits of using jet dry in their dish washer or what shoe polish each other uses? Are we all really that bored?

417415[/snapback]

As I said in the other thread, that's what MySpace is for.

[do not disturb]

my apologies for bring this topic up again.

had i known about the attempt with the "longest thread" before posting my idea, i never would've posted it, sorry guys.

[pfunk]

That's not me, that's all Roy from the MW TOS.

417448[/snapback]

I know, but the fact you quoted him

[Sumdumgai]

Like Monty Python's Life of Brian, the Judean Liberation Front guy that wants to have a baby, then after getting shot down because he couldn't , they decide they will fight for the RIGHT for men to have babies.

[Oihan]

For the love of Zombie Jesus, let this topic die people.

417169[/snapback]

Nah, can't let it die...not as long as there are people who keep coming to this MB.

[Oihan]

Nah, I hate those super threads.  I avoid them like the plague.  Way, WAY too much to read through just to get a few blurbs of useful information.

417174[/snapback]

Same here.

[Oihan]

The problem with not having an O/T thread is that the mods are then forced to make judgments on what can stay and what can't. Just looking at the first 50 threads in Anime and SciFi we have a thread about the "babes of ADV" which has been locked for various reasons, yet we have a "Jessica Biel Auction" thread which still survives even though it's one link to anything sci-fi is that she was in Stealth. We have a long-running automotive thread as well as the continuation of the long running aircraft thread, both of which are so grounded in reality to be the antethesis of sci-fi, yet they are allowed to run their course.

My point being is that there are many threads which are clearly O/T and are allowed to continue and thrive. The reasons that some threads are killed while others are allowed to flourish rest on the mods and the continuation of their existence can sometimes be attributed to actual interpretation of the set guidelines, and other times have clearly been favoritism or lack of it.

Someone earlier mentioned that they don't post much at other forums. I'm that way, too. I don't care for the people at most other forums, and I consider many of the people here to be the closest thing you can get to online friends.

We are a community, and as a community many of us may want to discuss things that fall outside of what is now determined as acceptable subject matter. Sometimes we'll post it anyways and hope that a mod finds it acceptable, or likes us personally, or any other myriad reasons to let it run it's course.

If the current mods don't want to deal with an O/T section, ask for volunteers, or nominate some long-standing members who will be willing to patrol said section and keep it in line. At the least, it would be a worthy experiment; at the worst it'll fall apart and the whole O/T idea will go away for a couple months or so.

It's true, O/T threads can be dirty places. But that's because, being O/T, most forums don't put effort into patrolling it. We here at MW respect and revere our sence of community and, most probably, will patrol it in a more vigilant manner than the other threads receive.

Then again, if the Admins say no, that's that.

Just my two cents.

417307[/snapback]

I should have said/typed EXACTLY everything you have said/typed in 'my.' I couldn't have said any of that better. I'm completely behind you on all of this.

P.S.: That was me who mentioned they don't post on other forums...and for the exact same reasons you listed.

Moreover, as Drew here has said, let the volunteers help moderator this new OT forum, if there will ever be one. I've already let one of you (I believe it's Roy) that I'm more than willing to help out here in this community. What better way is there to thank a community, that's given a lot to you, than to give back?

[Oihan]

I still don't see what the fuss is about. The Other Anime section is about ten inches away from being an open OT forum. From what I have seen, almost anything goes in that section for a certain period of time given it is not completely innane or pointless.  Goofy threads get locked and yes other threads that may have merrit get locked but in the end most of them stay open (or stay open long enough to run their course). What exactly do people want to talk about with such fervor that these "we demand OT" threads keep coming up? Do people really have this insatiable desire to ask each other about how their day was? To talk about how to bake cookies, debate about the benefits of using jet dry in their dish washer or what shoe polish each other uses? Are we all really that bored?

417415[/snapback]

Well, I don't know about you, but I'd like to know your guys' opinions on the World Cup games, having an NFL thread so we can all discuss the NFL and such. I'm not asking or looking for threads or discussions on how one's day went, or anything like that. If I wanted to know how someone's day went, I'd take it PM.

Edit: Sorry for the multiple replies...I was reading/replying as I saw them...only to hit the 'Back' button twice to continue on reading. I guess i could condense one or two of them onto one post.... It's not meant to be seen as spam or anything else...I'm not trying to ruin this thread, so please don't take it as such.

Edited July 25, 2006 by Oihan

[JsARCLIGHT]

I noticed that we allowed a World Cup topic to remain open as long as the World Cup was on and I'm assuming based on that that we will leave a Superbowl topic up during Football season, and like topics for World Series, Final 4, Stanley Cup and whatever. Hell, I'll even volunteer to monitor those topics if it will solve this issue...

And if anyone remembers I have occasionally volunteered to moderate a pure OT section (against my better sanity) but IMHO what difference would it make? Basically it would be the same as what we have now with the same "a mod decides what stays and what goes" law. The MW TOS would not change at all... all that would happen is that we would supposedly "relax" the posting restrictions a tad, to what end is hard to determine. It will be fine and dandy for a few weeks or months but "it" will eventually happen. Someone would post a stupid thread about eating boogers or something and I or another mod would delete it and then they'd puff up in a fit of burly indignation that "Someone closed their thread but left -blank- open! RAGE!" and we'd have this exact same argument all over again with people calling us bastards or a hypocrites for locking their booger thread while not locking someone else's thread. There is always going to be someone making a judgement call on what stays and what goes, nothing is going to change that. And in the same breath there is always going to be someone claiming favoritism or persecution on behalf of the staff when their topics are deleted or locked.

IMHO folks here do have a valid argument that sports topics seem to be an area a lot of people want to discuss and it would not be that massive of a strain on the system to allow a handful of subject sports topics. I myself am a football fan but in reality I don't like to talk about Football with other people so I don't care if MW has a Football thread or not, but that is just me. I figure if other people want a SINGLE Football thread (and of course the equalizer baseball, hockey, soccer threads) that that would not be too increadibly difficult to keep track of... but once again, that is still pretty much "the line" in my book but it is still not up to me to decide, it is up to the Admins Shawn and Graham. But it always seems to me that anything outside of sports that remains to be talked about we either already cover in some way, is all useless personal garbage ("how was your day"? threads, "I got a parking ticket" threads, "someone help me build a computer" threads or the dreaded "what are you drinking/eating right now?" threads), useless "news event of the day" topics (people posting news stories, which quickly skew political a lot of times) or stuff thare are outright TOS violations (religion, politics, personal flames, etc).

[Oihan]

But it always seems to me that anything outside of sports that remains to be talked about we either already cover in some way, is all useless personal garbage ("how was your day"? threads, "I got a parking ticket" threads, "someone help me build a computer" threads or the dreaded "what are you drinking/eating right now?" threads), useless "news event of the day" topics (people posting news stories, which quickly skew political a lot of times) or stuff thare are outright TOS violations (religion, politics, personal flames, etc).

419243[/snapback]

There are other topics that aren't what you described. I don't to talk about how someone got a parking ticket. I don't want a topic about how someone's day went. I don't want anything of the sort. I just want to be able to talk about subjects that AREN'T"useless personal garbage ('how was your day'? threads, 'I got a parking ticket' threads, 'someone help me build a computer' threads or the dreaded 'what are you drinking/eating right now? threads), useless 'news event of the day' topics (people posting news stories, which quickly skew political a lot of times) or stuff thare are outright TOS violations (religion, politics, personal flames, etc)."