Dam You Macross 7 Dam You #$%#$^#$&^$%&

[Mephistopheles]

Just some food for thought:

SDF: Macross - 1 TV series (36 eps.), 1 Movie, 1 OVA

Macross Plus: 1 OVA series (4 eps.), 1 movie

Macross Zero: 1 OVA series (5 eps.)

Macross 7: 1 TV series (49 eps.) + 3 bonus eps., 1 OVA series (4 eps.), 1 movie.

Makes me wonder how popular Macross 7 was (is?) in Japan - given that it has the most animation produced for any Macross series.

413854[/snapback]

You kinda gota understand its not the quantity but the quality that counts, if shoji got all the money and funding he put threw mac7 and place it threw a differnt project you would get something like mac+ or Mac0. for example the 3d fx they used for M+ was some realy complicated stuff they came up with back in 94, also you have to remember the animation quality and the replayed action scenes they used was to save some labor and money.

413863[/snapback]

No I think people understand the "quality" vs "quantity" argument however you don't understand that Mac + and M-7 were released at the same time, with very different aims. Whereas Mac+ was intended as pure eye/mecha candy rehashing Kawamori's unreleased Advanced Valkyrie chonicles story (or whatever its called) Mac-7 was intended more to tell a story, and focus on character development. Macross Plus ate a phenominal part of the budget up... it had bells and whistles like CG that ate up the budget.Macross 7 didn't have that money but it didn't need it. It wasn't supposed to be about the mecha (even though it had the most of any series) it was about the characters and story telling anyway. Whats the point animating complex battle scenes when it wasn't even a focus of the story, and you don't have the money anways?

413871[/snapback]

Well that would be a good counter point if Macross 7 actually had a good story. It may have focused on it, and it did, but that doesn't make it an automatic winner.

[Noyhauser]

Just some food for thought:

SDF: Macross - 1 TV series (36 eps.), 1 Movie, 1 OVA

Macross Plus: 1 OVA series (4 eps.), 1 movie

Macross Zero: 1 OVA series (5 eps.)

Macross 7: 1 TV series (49 eps.) + 3 bonus eps., 1 OVA series (4 eps.), 1 movie.

Makes me wonder how popular Macross 7 was (is?) in Japan - given that it has the most animation produced for any Macross series.

413854[/snapback]

You kinda gota understand its not the quantity but the quality that counts, if shoji got all the money and funding he put threw mac7 and place it threw a differnt project you would get something like mac+ or Mac0. for example the 3d fx they used for M+ was some realy complicated stuff they came up with back in 94, also you have to remember the animation quality and the replayed action scenes they used was to save some labor and money.

413863[/snapback]

No I think people understand the "quality" vs "quantity" argument however you don't understand that Mac + and M-7 were released at the same time, with very different aims. Whereas Mac+ was intended as pure eye/mecha candy rehashing Kawamori's unreleased Advanced Valkyrie chonicles story (or whatever its called) Mac-7 was intended more to tell a story, and focus on character development. Macross Plus ate a phenominal part of the budget up... it had bells and whistles like CG that ate up the budget.Macross 7 didn't have that money but it didn't need it. It wasn't supposed to be about the mecha (even though it had the most of any series) it was about the characters and story telling anyway. Whats the point animating complex battle scenes when it wasn't even a focus of the story, and you don't have the money anways?

413871[/snapback]

Well that would be a good counter point if Macross 7 actually had a good story. It may have focused on it, and it did, but that doesn't make it an automatic winner.

413882[/snapback]

Yes but as Sketchly pointed out somewhere earlier Macross 7 is really a more japanese show than most others. (And one that is interesting because it occurred during a period of fundamental upheaval in Japanese culture.) Though I disagree that its a fundamentally kid oriented show.

Its main theme of pacifism mixed based in popular culture and fundamental distrust of the military is something thats not really applicable anywhere else in the world. Not even Germany today would really get it.

You also have to look at the timing of Macross 7 (I was in Japan at the time). 1995 is very soon after the implosion of the Japanese Economy, greater social freedoms for younger people, and the end of the Cold War... its a time when the japanese don't know where they are going.

However even more importantly its the 50th anniversary of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Doesn't it seem a tad ironic that the use of nuclear weapons in the story is shown to be completely useless?

I'll agree that parts of the story weren't well done... the first 10~15 episodes, could have been condensed. I still think though that these problems aren't nearly as bad when you watch them on a week to week basis, rather than cramming them all in 4 hours.

[sketchley]

Note: he didn't state that Macross 7 had a good story. He stated that it was focused on the story and characters.

Nevertheless, my wondering still hasn't been answered:

"How popular Macross 7 was (is?) in Japan?"

[Noyhauser]

Note: he didn't state that Macross 7 had a good story.  He stated that it was focused on the story and characters.

Nevertheless, my wondering still hasn't been answered:

"How popular Macross 7 was (is?) in Japan?"

413885[/snapback]

Do you have an answer to that, or is that an idle musing?

From all I've seen its was a decently popular show. I know at the time it was... though I think it was overshadowed by many other shows at the time.... I believe kenshin was playing at that time too. I think it suffered though in its timeslot. If I remember correctly it was late afternoon on Saturdays or sundays.

But its still got a following. The re-occurring inclusion of Macross-7 in popular references (like SRW, and cameos) would seem to indicate to me that it was a popular show.

[sketchley]

No answer, and I'm looking for one.

Most of the people that I bump into on a daily basis have no idea what Macross is, let alone any of the specific series. Mind you, most of them were born many years after Macross 7 finished, or are their parents. Very, very few of those parents know of Macross in general, and their usual follow-up question is about Lynn Minmei.

[Noyhauser]

No answer, and I'm looking for one.

Most of the people that I bump into on a daily basis have no idea what Macross is, let alone any of the specific series.  Mind you, most of them were born many years after Macross 7 finished, or are their parents.  Very, very few of those parents know of Macross in general, and their usual follow-up question is about Lynn Minmei.

413890[/snapback]

Well Anime prevalance culture in Japan isn't as mainstream as one would think in the west. Its always been offshoot of the mainstream. I suspect though that the people who are the most into Macross 7 you might not meet that often, as they would be my age back then 10~15, and now in their early 20s.

Manga's prevalence on the other hand...

[pfunk]

Roy, there is one glaring flaw in your "pickle" analogy. If M7 was truly like having pickles on your burger, there would be some rabid "pickle fans" who would jump out of the bushes the moment you expressed your disdain for said pickles, and loudly preach their "tastiness" to you. At first you'd politely comment that they are free to put pickles on their own burgers but that you personally didn't want any. This would only incite them to louder and more grating displays of pickle fandom, such as shouting "Taste my kosher!" or simply "Dill!" until you had to physically harm them.

413675[/snapback]

well, I hate peas, I have yet to eat straight peas without a ton of rice or some other veggie on them. I wont see M7 just for the pure fact of the faces on the previously designed mech, reminds me of powerrangers. One of thiese days I ma see it with a completly open mind and a plate full of sweetpeas

[KingNor]

i just watched the episode again, exedol clearly says that they shoudlnt' interact with the planet anymore.

i took this as a total dismissal of earth, all they wanted at that point was the ship.

I have no doubt that had aquireing the ship gone smoothly, they would have disregaurded earth completely.

[GutsAndCasca]

Yeah but the Zentraedi are war-freaks! It's in their "genes." They'd have stopped interaction, yeah... with a gigantic explosion. To me it's like debating whether or not Hitler would have taken over the entire world if given the chance. Well, I think he would have. And once the Zentraedi's attention was taken off of obtaining the SDF, they'd have gone back to doing whatever they were doing and destroyed earth simply for having pissed them off during their operations.

[GutsAndCasca]

I also forgot to add, about the whole Roy-pickle thing. Somebody's got to stand up and say "How the heck can you not like pickles?! A hamburger without pickles is like Macross without an SDF-1!"

Pickles are good. Please don't lump them in with Macross 7.

BUT- Macross 7 did have its good parts. I can't exactly remember when they happened, but a few times I was "glued" to the set instead of looking up at the clock waiting for the episode to get over with. Unfortunately... I still haven't finished the series... and I still feel like I'm sitting through traffic school when I watch it. I'd rather eat pickles.

[Radd]

i just watched the episode again, exedol clearly says that they shoudlnt' interact with the planet anymore.

i took this as a total dismissal of earth, all they wanted at that point was the ship.

I have no doubt that had aquireing the ship gone smoothly, they would have disregaurded earth completely.

413940[/snapback]

Yeah, don't take this the wrong way Mephistopheles and GutsAndCasca, but it does seem to me that you are both using supposition on how you think the Zentradi would act despite points to the contrary. As for the DYRL examples, well I was talking of SDF Macross in and of itself, since it's the official version of events.

I agree with KingNoir. Had they captured the ship at the beginning....they would have left Earth alone and forgotten about it.

Had theycaptured the ship away from Earth without the cultural contamination occuring....they would have left Earth alone and forgotten about it.

It was fairly late in the series when they crossed that line which made Earth a target out of a percieved threat.

The Zentradi were warriors, designed to wage war. I've no doubt war would be their first option to solve a problem, but I don't believe they would wage war if they did not percieve a threat. At least not until the Supervision Army was completely gone and they spent quite some time with nothing to do.

[JB0]

I also forgot to add, about the whole Roy-pickle thing. Somebody's got to stand up and say "How the heck can you not like pickles?! A hamburger without pickles is like Macross without an SDF-1!"

Pickles are good. Please don't lump them in with Macross 7.

Pickes are disgusting. But easy to pick off.

If they pump your burger full of mayo, you'll never be rid of it. No matter what, there'll always be crevasses full of the stuff... Especially if it's a cheseburger and the cheese is properly melted.

[Lightning]

I also forgot to add, about the whole Roy-pickle thing. Somebody's got to stand up and say "How the heck can you not like pickles?! A hamburger without pickles is like Macross without an SDF-1!"

Pickles are good. Please don't lump them in with Macross 7.

Pickes are disgusting. But easy to pick off.

If they pump your burger full of mayo, you'll never be rid of it. No matter what, there'll always be crevasses full of the stuff... Especially if it's a cheseburger and the cheese is properly melted.

413991[/snapback]

I agree, except for on mayo. Mayo is good, tasty, and should belong on every burger I eat! Has anybody tried the new BK "Stackers" yet? I love that Quad burger...

[Mephistopheles]

i just watched the episode again, exedol clearly says that they shoudlnt' interact with the planet anymore.

i took this as a total dismissal of earth, all they wanted at that point was the ship.

I have no doubt that had aquireing the ship gone smoothly, they would have disregaurded earth completely.

413940[/snapback]

Yeah, don't take this the wrong way Mephistopheles and GutsAndCasca, but it does seem to me that you are both using supposition on how you think the Zentradi would act despite points to the contrary. As for the DYRL examples, well I was talking of SDF Macross in and of itself, since it's the official version of events.

I agree with KingNoir. Had they captured the ship at the beginning....they would have left Earth alone and forgotten about it.

Had theycaptured the ship away from Earth without the cultural contamination occuring....they would have left Earth alone and forgotten about it.

It was fairly late in the series when they crossed that line which made Earth a target out of a percieved threat.

The Zentradi were warriors, designed to wage war. I've no doubt war would be their first option to solve a problem, but I don't believe they would wage war if they did not percieve a threat. At least not until the Supervision Army was completely gone and they spent quite some time with nothing to do.

413990[/snapback]

Doesn't matter, since they never even attempted to tell us what their intentions were I'm sure they would have simply took the ship by force to which we would have defended ourselves, seeing as we don't know why they are attacking, and war would have broken out just the same. Breetai also really didn't seem to care about Exedore's comments about not interfering with Microns.

[Ishimaru]

Just some food for thought:

SDF: Macross - 1 TV series (36 eps.), 1 Movie, 1 OVA

Macross Plus: 1 OVA series (4 eps.), 1 movie

Macross Zero: 1 OVA series (5 eps.)

Macross 7: 1 TV series (49 eps.) + 3 bonus eps., 1 OVA series (4 eps.), 1 movie.

Makes me wonder how popular Macross 7 was (is?) in Japan - given that it has the most animation produced for any Macross series.

413854[/snapback]

You kinda gota understand its not the quantity but the quality that counts, if shoji got all the money and funding he put threw mac7 and place it threw a differnt project you would get something like mac+ or Mac0. for example the 3d fx they used for M+ was some realy complicated stuff they came up with back in 94, also you have to remember the animation quality and the replayed action scenes they used was to save some labor and money.

413863[/snapback]

Then why do you keep downloading it? (He is my bro)

[GutsAndCasca]

I also forgot to add, about the whole Roy-pickle thing. Somebody's got to stand up and say "How the heck can you not like pickles?! A hamburger without pickles is like Macross without an SDF-1!"

Pickles are good. Please don't lump them in with Macross 7.

Pickes are disgusting. But easy to pick off.

If they pump your burger full of mayo, you'll never be rid of it. No matter what, there'll always be crevasses full of the stuff... Especially if it's a cheseburger and the cheese is properly melted.

413991[/snapback]

I hate mayo on anything. And also, when the tomatoes are all mushy and nasty.

[Mephistopheles]

I also forgot to add, about the whole Roy-pickle thing. Somebody's got to stand up and say "How the heck can you not like pickles?! A hamburger without pickles is like Macross without an SDF-1!"

Pickles are good. Please don't lump them in with Macross 7.

Pickes are disgusting. But easy to pick off.

If they pump your burger full of mayo, you'll never be rid of it. No matter what, there'll always be crevasses full of the stuff... Especially if it's a cheseburger and the cheese is properly melted.

413991[/snapback]

I hate mayo on anything. And also, when the tomatoes are all mushy and nasty.

414057[/snapback]

Mayo adds a lot of calories and fat to whatever you put it on.

[Radd]

Doesn't matter, since they never even attempted to tell us what their intentions were I'm sure they would have simply took the ship by force to which we would have defended ourselves, seeing as we don't know why they are attacking, and war would have broken out just the same. Breetai also really didn't seem to care about Exedore's comments about not interfering with Microns.

414040[/snapback]

Now we're going in circles.

[Roy Focker]

If the pickle is removed there is still the chance of the pickle juice stain on the cheese.

[GutsAndCasca]

Or, slimy nasty tomato residue on everything it touched. This can include sog-ified bread.

[JB0]

If the pickle is removed there is still the chance of the pickle juice stain on the cheese.

414116[/snapback]

Or in the bun. Blech.

[Zentrandude]

If the pickle is removed there is still the chance of the pickle juice stain on the cheese.

414116[/snapback]

Or in the bun. Blech.

414160[/snapback]

nobody likes juice in the bun

Think we need to lock this thread now. its gone beyond is usefullness.

[emajnthis]

I just watched the first five episodes of M7 and i'm wondering why the mecha scenes are so poor yet the character scenes are so well done. It's almost as if they were done by two completely different studios it's like night and day. I am really not a fan of the guitar flying deal already, and the animation as a whole is fairly poor, but i'll reserve judgement for when i complete the entire series.

Edited July 6, 2006 by emajnthis

[HWR MKII]

I just watched the first five episodes of M7 and i'm wondering why the mecha scenes are so poor yet the character scenes are so well done.  It's almost as if they were done by two completely different studios it's like night and day.  I am really not a fan of the guitar flying deal already, and the animation as a whole is fairly poor, but i'll reserve judgement for when i complete the entire series.

414187[/snapback]

Honestly this is the most sensible statement yet on M7. Regardless of if you end up liking it or not you are going to give it a full viewing and get your own opinion on it.

M7 isnt my personal fave but it does have alot of good funny moments in it and there are some scenes that leave you wanting more. Like Milia showing up in her red VF-1J, or the ORIGIONAL crew of the Destroid Monster powering her back up like the old days. Even seeing Max get his hands on a VF-22 was awesome. There are more scenes like that too.

[Lightning]

If the pickle is removed there is still the chance of the pickle juice stain on the cheese.

414116[/snapback]

Or in the bun. Blech.

414160[/snapback]

nobody likes juice in the bun

Think we need to lock this thread now. its gone beyond is usefullness.

414181[/snapback]

nah, not yet...debating over condiments on burgers is kinda fun for once..

[Noyhauser]

If the pickle is removed there is still the chance of the pickle juice stain on the cheese.

414116[/snapback]

Or in the bun. Blech.

414160[/snapback]

nobody likes juice in the bun

Think we need to lock this thread now. its gone beyond is usefullness.

414181[/snapback]

nah, not yet...debating over condiments on burgers is kinda fun for once..

414216[/snapback]

The sad part is that we're actually having a good debate for once on M-7. No trolls or anything. But then someone has to go and ruin it.

[GutsAndCasca]

I think it was cool when Milia busted out in her swimsuit. And when Basara got kissed by that freaky vampire woman. And when Basara got kissed by the freaky vampire woman masquerading as the freaky biker gang leader. I'm sure he'll get kissed more too, I just gotta' finish this series. And OF course, it's ALWAYS cool to see the old VF-1's show up in an episode.

[Lightning]

I think it was cool when Milia busted out in her swimsuit. And when Basara got kissed by that freaky vampire woman. And when Basara got kissed by the freaky vampire woman masquerading as the freaky biker gang leader. I'm sure he'll get kissed more too, I just gotta' finish this series. And OF course, it's ALWAYS cool to see the old VF-1's show up in an episode.

414266[/snapback]

That's about all you'll see though...

[KingNor]

I just watched the first five episodes of M7 and i'm wondering why the mecha scenes are so poor yet the character scenes are so well done.  It's almost as if they were done by two completely different studios it's like night and day.  I am really not a fan of the guitar flying deal already, and the animation as a whole is fairly poor, but i'll reserve judgement for when i complete the entire series.

414187[/snapback]

Honestly this is the most sensible statement yet on M7. Regardless of if you end up liking it or not you are going to give it a full viewing and get your own opinion on it.

M7 isnt my personal fave but it does have alot of good funny moments in it and there are some scenes that leave you wanting more. Like Milia showing up in her red VF-1J, or the ORIGIONAL crew of the Destroid Monster powering her back up like the old days. Even seeing Max get his hands on a VF-22 was awesome. There are more scenes like that too.

414207[/snapback]

I am also slowly making my way through the serise..

To be honest, i'm not sure Basara is actually piloting his valk with the guitar. Since, so far his valkyrie seems to just barely dodge around when he's playing, when he's not, his valk tends to be more active.

Even if the valk has "guitar controls" added to it, that doesn't nessesarily mean that the guitar is controling the movement of the valkyrie. An electric guitar just "controls" the audio device on the valk.

Thats my take so far on the guitaryness of the red valk.

I also agree that the level of animation on the characters is pretty damn nice compaired to the valkyrie scenes... not to mention that i dont' think i've seen "new" animation of any valkyries since the first episode (the recycling is really THAT bad).

I am really getting the feeling that the show itself realizes how rediculous basara is. There is a scene where he starts singing at some hoodlums and they hate it so much that they try to kill him.

And to those who havn't seen any M7 yet.. even the enemy isn't disturbed by his music, Basara has some kind of idea that his songs will do something if the enemy will listen all the way through. Yet the enemy always leaves before the song is done (so far) and its not because of anything Basara's done, its just because they are done with their mission.

I can't say this is exactly my style of anime, but it isn't nearly as bad as i was expecting (yet). We'll see as the show continues :-)

[pfunk]

Back when macross was first thought of in 82 the idea was to make a comedy series that made fun of gundam and all the other giant mecha shows. They dropped that idea to bring us what we currently have with the VF-1s , SDF-1 and such.

  Macross 7 kind of went back to that idea in the way the valks are represented and the overall scheme of the show. It does have its serious moments but overall it is a lighthearted and quite comical series. Comparing it to SDF TV, M+ or M0 is like comparing apples and oranges. M7 is its own entity. It should be treated as such

413385[/snapback]

I keep reading this and it makes no sence to me, if it is a spoof, then why invest so much into the franchise

[Zentrandude]

@kingnor you could be on to something about the controls. basara doesn't play an off note when he has to do something realy quickly due to an unexpected event. About the hatred of basara, im starting to think hes based off those anoying street performers but we need like a commentary from the mac 7 staff.

@Noyhauser Majority of that is because A1 isn't here anymore, he was the loudest of us mac7 haters.

[Ivan]

Talking about Mac 7 and Agent One, what happened to him anyway? I miss his sarcasm, hehe

[Lightning]

Talking about Mac 7 and Agent One, what happened to him anyway?  I miss his sarcasm, hehe 

414358[/snapback]

he..........got banned......awhile ago....sadly.

[HWR MKII]

Pfunk. If you look i never said M7 was a spoof. I meant to say that the IDEA behind SDF TV back in 82 was a gundam spoof. That spoof IDEA was dropped in 82. When M7 came out it seems like Kawamori drew on some of the ideas he had for SDF TV as far as the more comical aspects.

[Godzilla]

Talking about Mac 7 and Agent One, what happened to him anyway?  I miss his sarcasm, hehe  

414358[/snapback]

he..........got banned......awhile ago....sadly.

414366[/snapback]

WTH? I missed that.