The 2nd Coming of the YF-19

[David Hingtgen]

Saying again---the wingroots/intakes slope down in every drawing/shot, even Kawamori's own and the really bad ones from the anime. (Well, every shot/drawing you can tell--most notably including the TIAS drawings, which are AFAIK considered the most definitive of all Macross Plus valk drawings)

If the wings angle up or are horizontal, they can't retract into a downwards-angled wingroot. The wings swing nearly 180 degrees. Basically: any time the wings are NOT drawn angled down, it's gotta be a mistake because the wings can't transform otherwise. Yamato gets away with it because they flattened out the entire upper surface of the valk, coming very close to eliminating all the slopes all over. They can only have working transforming horizontal wings by altering a large chunk of the fuselage, mainly the wingroots that the wings retract into. If the wingroots were done right, horizontal wings couldn't fit into them.

It's one thing to use anime magic to change proportions---it's another to bend the wings the opposite direction to allow it to transform. It all works fine transformation-wise if the wings bend down at the same angle as the wingroots. But everything's messed up if you go with a few "different" shots from the anime that have the wings up for artistic reasons or something.

It's kind of like saying VF-1's have laser cannons in the nose---yeah it was on-screen, but doesn't mean it's right. Go with "what looks right and makes sense and is most often depicted in multiple sources and just plain works better for all 3 modes" versus "but that one time it was the other way". (Yes, having the wings angled down even helps GERWALK mode---you don't have to contort the fuselage/arms so much to get up and over them)

Edited August 15, 2006 by David Hingtgen

[Scream Man]

Im starting to remember why my posts here became less regular...19 pages of arguing over the angle of the wings

Im trying to remember what the debate was when i left... i have a feeling it had something to do with the nose on the VF-1...

[Shaggydog]

So .. wait.. is it EVERY shot, or most shots, or the good shots?

[GutsAndCasca]

Geez this thread gets a lot of posts. My opinion, is that Kawamori should be the one to dictate what is right and wrong with this thing. Eugimon has a point from about 90 posts back... people do tend to complain a lot and to us people who aren't plane-physics experts it's all meaningless drabble. My opinion goes as far as: Dyson kicks azz because *my* last name is Dyson too, and his valk rocks. Because he pilots it. And his name's Dyson. So, y'know. There ya' go. Pretty deep, eh?

[Nani?!]

David... your ardent enthusiasm for the anhedral wings will probably be better served for changes that are more likely to be made and honestly, more beneficial.

A lot of people were on board with your opinion about the removeable neck landing gear and the legs not fitting into the wing roots correctly...

However, the moment the wing angle comment came up, the "complaint/criticism" haters (a.k.a. secret yamato employees ) started snearing...

Besides, I don't even think your favorite, the hasegawa kit, is sloped down from the top intakes like you say.

It's ok man, let it go~

[AlphaOne]

The only reason why I keep looking at this post is because I wanted to see if there were any new pics of the yf-19 or any news of the sort. Instead, I find almost 10 pages of non stop critique/criticism about things that I honestly couldn't care about, much less the fact that we can't confirm any of them based on the what, 3 pics we've seen so far?

How about this, let's save whatever criticisms we might have until AFTER we see more shots that can give a better idea of what the product's going to look like.

Seriously, this is starting to resemble the type of conversation my girlfriend has with her friends...

[Macross73]

The only reason why I keep looking at this post is because I wanted to see if there were any new pics of the yf-19 or any news of the sort. Instead, I find almost 10 pages of non stop critique/criticism about things that I honestly couldn't care about, much less the fact that we can't confirm any of them based on the what, 3 pics we've seen so far?

How about this, let's save whatever criticisms we might have until AFTER we see more shots that can give a better idea of what the product's going to look like.

Seriously, this is starting to resemble the type of conversation my girlfriend has with her friends... 

425219[/snapback]

I want more pics too

[GutsAndCasca]

It will be a while until we get new pics. So can somebody post some more battroid or gerwalk pics of some of the hasegawa models? That blue and white yf19 looks amazing, and those D-stance YF21 pictures from earlier just about blew my mind. I really hope Yamato is going to produce something as cool. I can't say I was disappointed with the VF0s in comparison to the hasegawas. The vf0s looks amazing. So I guess my point is, can someone post more pretty pictures?

[Graham]

So I guess my point is, can someone post more pretty pictures? 

425247[/snapback]

Nope, not allowed to yet, but I can try telephathically beaming them to your head!

................................there...........................................did it work?

Graham

[kensei]

I've never seen GERWALK or Battroid hasagawa models actually.

I thought that the transforming model of the YF-19 in the Model Graphix was the cream of the crop, and there was no way that a toy could even come close to that, but I am so wrong. I'm glad I am.

[Fort Max]

So I guess my point is, can someone post more pretty pictures? 

425247[/snapback]

Nope, not allowed to yet, but I can try telephathically beaming them to your head!

................................there...........................................did it work?

Graham

425255[/snapback]

Oh gawd, it's increadible, thank you Graham.

[David Hingtgen]

If it's annoying people that much that it's affecting the thread, I'll stop talking about it. (Though I get the impression more people simply don't care, than people think that I'm wrong)

Anyways, I have plenty of other questions/comments, some of which Graham may be able to answer (yes, some of this should go in the "issues" threaf, but they're all YF-19-specific):

1. Fold Booster! While I was watching M+ for...other things... about the YF-19 I noticed that when Isamu jettisons it upon arrival at Earth, we get a really good look at how it attaches. And I think the current pics we have of the Yamato shows no provisions for a Fold Booster to be attached. I know I'm not the only one here who wants a light-up fold booster, but if it's not included in the first release, I doubt it'll ever happen---there's little point to include it with a VF-19A AFAIK (I only ever played the demo of VFX-2, so don't know if fold boosters were used in-game), and since it seems pretty clear from the mold that FAST packs are already planned, there's nobody who'd buy "version 2" just for a fold booster. The YF-19 has far fewer accessories than the other valks (minimal FAST pack armor, etc), and a fold booster is really what it needs to "complete" the package. If it's not included in the first release, it's unlikely they'd modify the mold later just for that lone change, especially since nobody would buy Isamu's all over again just to get a fold booster.

2. Nose sensors. (the red ones on the sides of the nosecone). They look 100x better when they're clear red, as we've all seen from the kit build-ups here. If at all possible, please convince Yamato to have them as separate clear-red parts (like they do for the landing lights on the 1/48 VF-1), and not just "red paint on the nose".

3. Spell check. ENGLISH spell check. There's several zillion errors on the Hase kit's decal sheet, and while it'd be bad enough to have the new toy's sticker sheet chock full of errors, it'd be even worse if we actually had Engrish tampo-printed on--that's harder to fix. I've seen enough "Nev Ebwars Test Flijt Center" YF-19's out there. Plus my all-time favorite: "DANGIE! AYVESTING HOOK" Gotta watch out for those ayvesting hooks.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

If anything I would rather that thing under the arm that appeared in macross plus: what was it that destroyed a fake monster? Yeah include one of them.

Oh btw I was recently watching SDF macross again and the monster does get destroyed. (by a flying regult)

episode 8:

before:

after:

Just realised that the monster is actually a lot weaker than I expected. If the yf19 actually destroyed it in macross plus (not a fake one) I wouldn't be surprised now.. In the past people have said that the monster is the only destroid that hasn't been shown defeated like other cannon fodders or other destroids. This proves them wrong.

[David Hingtgen]

Oooh, that'd be good too. I think it's the "extra weapons pack". It's kinda like GBP armor in that it can only be equipped in battroid mode. But only a fold booster would light up green.

:;edit:: The infamous Steelfalcon.com calls it the "Heavy Weapons Module". Is that the canon term? http://www.steelfalcon.com/Macross/weapons.shtml

Edited August 15, 2006 by David Hingtgen

[Arthurius]

Maybe the reason they didnt include the booster jet is that its only in plane mode, and thus not as many people would invest in it (as people seem to preffer the robot mode). Now, if it could be turned into some kind of weopon or some other element, for robot mode, then it would be worth while for them.

Another reason could be that they are planning to have the armor set. Would there be enough room for it. If people had the choice between armor and jet booster, which one would they most likely (and profitabily) buy?

Now, this being said, it would be nice to have those boosters with lights as suggested!!!

[kensei]

If it's annoying people that much that it's affecting the thread, I'll stop talking about it.  (Though I get the impression more people simply don't care, than people think that I'm wrong)

Anyways, I have plenty of other questions/comments, some of which Graham may be able to answer (yes, some of this should go in the "issues" threaf, but they're all YF-19-specific):

1.  Fold Booster!  While I was watching M+ for...other things... about the YF-19 I noticed that when Isamu jettisons it upon arrival at Earth, we get a really good look at how it attaches.  And I think the current pics we have of the Yamato shows no provisions for a Fold Booster to be attached.  I know I'm not the only one here who wants a light-up fold booster, but if it's not included in the first release, I doubt it'll ever happen---there's little point to include it with a VF-19A AFAIK (I only ever played the demo of VFX-2, so don't know if fold boosters were used in-game), and since it seems pretty clear from the mold that FAST packs are already planned, there's nobody who'd buy "version 2" just for a fold booster.  The YF-19 has far fewer accessories than the other valks (minimal FAST pack armor, etc), and a fold booster is really what it needs to "complete" the package.  If it's not included in the first release, it's unlikely they'd modify the mold later just for that lone change, especially since nobody would buy Isamu's all over again just to get a fold booster.     

2.  Nose sensors.  (the red ones on the sides of the nosecone).  They look 100x better when they're clear red, as we've all seen from the kit build-ups here.  If at all possible, please convince Yamato to have them as separate clear-red parts (like they do for the landing lights on the 1/48 VF-1), and not just "red paint on the nose". 

3.  Spell check.  ENGLISH spell check.  There's several zillion errors on the Hase kit's decal sheet, and while it'd be bad enough to have the new toy's sticker sheet chock full of errors, it'd be even worse if we actually had Engrish tampo-printed on--that's harder to fix.  I've seen enough "Nev Ebwars Test Flijt Center" YF-19's out there.  Plus my all-time favorite:  "DANGIE!  AYVESTING HOOK"  Gotta watch out for those ayvesting hooks.

425259[/snapback]

1. Yes i do too. I wouldn't put it past Yamato to do an accessory pack with parts to "jury rig" the thing on. It won't look like the anime, but hey, the 1/48 VF-1 arm FAST Packs have these big ugly clips on the sides that aren't painted in the valks colours.

2. Yes! Like the VF-0! It would be awesome!

3. It's very annoying yes. But don't worry, if they don't fix their sticker issue, we always got Anasazi and takatoys.

[Shaggydog]

I agree that a light-up fold booster would rock. Not holding my breath, tho.

[TheLoneWolf]

I too would love a fold booster, but since no attachment points are seen I'll assume Yamato isn't gonna release one. The VF-0 didn't come with a Ghost, I don't see why Yamato would make an exception for the 19.

If a Ghost is going to be made, looks like it'll be up to MW'ers to do it.

[GutsAndCasca]

So I guess my point is, can someone post more pretty pictures? 

425247[/snapback]

Nope, not allowed to yet, but I can try telephathically beaming them to your head!

................................there...........................................did it work?

Graham

425255[/snapback]

No no no, I was talking about posting more pictures of the painted up model kits to satiate my lust for the YF19. Y'know, something visual to give me an idea of what the 1/60 might look like. But thanks for beaming the pictures of the actual 1/60 into my head. Nothing like the real thing!

[Nied]

I'm gonna stick up for David here and say I too want to see them fix the anehedral, it's pretty omnipresent in the anime and lineart (so far I've only seen one shot that kind of suggests otherwise and it's drawn to simulate a fisheye lense so it's distorted) and more importantly it makes the fighter mode look meaner. The only reason I can think of for Yamato making it the way they did is that it might affect the look of the already kinda weak shoulders in batroid mode. And David is right if he really wanted to be nitpicky he could talk about the incidence, camber and twist of the wing (one of the cool things about the YF-19 is that Kawamori really poured all of his knowledge of aerospace design into it and it shows to airplane guys like David and I).

[VF-18S Hornet]

1/60 scale is way better than the 1/72 version, more detail I willing to get into that action.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Graham:

Any chance of them doing the booster or weapon that was was seen in the anime? I would buy it as a seperate add on just like the super and strike parts set for the 1/48.

Maybe it won't look perfect but think about how vf1j is suddenly more attractive to a collector when he knew a GBP was going to come out? Yamato can milk more of the 19 with accessory packs. As an example I am likely to want to get 2 roy vf0s just so I can display roy wearing reactive armor (assuming one gets made) and roy in plane mode. I don't normally buy multiples.

So with that logic, if they made the accesory pack people are more enticed to get more than one 19.

Here's my thinking:

-include all the FP stuff in the accesory pack with fold booster and arm weapon. That would encourage people to get it more.

-concentrate on tampo printing more on the 19. Leave it naked like the 1/48 vf1

This way people can choose FP and non-FP and they don't have to pay for something they may not want or need and giving everyone more options.

Then if accessory pack becomes popular sell a FP yf19 in one box like the vf1 super stealth (came with strike cannon too ). Maybe include better robot hands (a special limited edition green pinpoint barrier fist? ) and some different pilots in the accessory pack.

By the time they get to the vf11, they could repeat this formula:

-put the fast packs in an accessory pack together with hands and maybe an atmospheric booster (used in the scene when dyson almost crashes into guld with it to keep up with his yf-21)

And allow the choice for naked vf11 with no FP like the 1/72 line. (of course GBP would be a seperate pack for vf11 assuming one is made)

heavy weapon pic for reference so people know what I am talking about:

vf-11 atmospheric booster:

^

just add that into the accessory pack with the fold booster and space fast pack (with initial release being naked vf11)

Edited August 16, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[kensei]

heavy weapon pic for reference so people know what I am talking about:

vf-11 atmospheric booster:

425391[/snapback]

I mentioned the heavy weapons module awhile back. I agree. But the atmospheric booster? Why? It's specifically for the VF-11. You know why right? Cause in the atmosphere the VF-11 cannot keep up with a YF-19 or 21.

Edited August 15, 2006 by kensei

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Er..Yeah but I was reffering to when they get to the vf11 in the macross plus line.

Each valk gets an "accesory pack" with things specific to it:

-all 3 get the fold booster and maybe some extra hands (related to thier valk) as a bonus

yf-19 gets:

FP, fold booster, underarm weapon, hands etc

vf-11 gets:

FP, (different from yf19 FP of course) fold booster, atmpspheric booster, hands etc (this might be the more expensive of the packs just from what you get)

yf21 gets:

FP, fold booster, hands, etc (edit: fighter mode side pieces?)

and so on... (unlike the vf0, do not include the FP. Just release them naked like the 1/48 vf1 line to encourage people to buy the fold booster with each valk)

The fold booster is not specific to the valk. But the extra FP, hands etc are. Chuck all of this in the accesory pack (related to the valk the accesory pack is for) like they have been doing with vf1 line (the super and strike parts, the GBP with side parts etc) so that people can choose to only have the naked valk. (some might prefer not to want the fold booster and be forced to pay for it you see what I am saying?)

Edited August 16, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[kensei]

Righty-ho.

Don't know if you can have an etc for the YF-21. Doesn't include much in the way of FP. But then again, it would be bigger than the 19's FP that's for sure.

Technically the 19 should have a thicker shield but I don't know if they will do that. Maybe they should, cause the 19 don't have that much to go bny in terms of accessories. Both prototype fighters in fact. The only one being the 11.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

The price of the accesory pack would vary then, depending on the amount of stuff in the pack. But the logic for doing it that way is that a person might not be interested in fold booster so they have the choice to just buy a naked valk. Similar to how some want GPB side parts and smaller-than-gbp-but-bigger-then-chicken-hands hands for thier valk but wish the side parts could be bought as seperate rather than with gbp.

Just to go a bit OT: I think yamato should just release side parts with all future 1/48 vf1 releases.

As it is you are forced to pay for a gbp to get side parts

and similarly there may be people who feel they are forced to pay for the fold booster to get the 19. (and not be interested in using a light up booster and want to save money)

but by adding extra stuff (beyond fold booster) in the accesory pack (like the heavy weapon thing for the 19, or the atmospheric booster for the vf11) people who want them can pay for them along with the FP parts; upgrading it to super version of whatever valk they want to "upgrade" to.

anyway it was just an idea..

Edited August 15, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[kensei]

Or they would put both the 19 and 21 FPs in the same set, and force you to buy both fighters, or let a FP set go to waste....like the SHE.....

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Don't know if you can have an etc for the YF-21. Doesn't include much in the way of FP. But then again, it would be bigger than the 19's FP that's for sure.

..maybe optional side parts to hide arms in fighter mode... (maybe have the 21 designed so that the arms are detachable on the toy, and somehow create space for these parts to cover up gaps if they can't do it without the need for seperate pieces)

There are already nightmareb4macross VF0 side parts:

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...opic=17964&st=0

When or if they get to the vf0S reactive armor, I imagine there would be official ones like em. (and then people will complain that all their non-reactive-armored VF0 without these side pieces feel inadequete and that all vf0 future vf0 should include side covers jk)

Edited August 16, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[UN Spacy]

The price of the accesory pack would vary then, depending on the amount of stuff in the pack. But the logic for doing it that way is that a person might not be interested in fold booster so they have the choice to just buy a naked valk. Similar to how some want GPB side parts and smaller-than-gbp-but-bigger-then-chicken-hands  hands for thier valk but wish the side parts could be bought as seperate rather than with gbp.

Just to go a bit OT: I think yamato should just release side parts with all future 1/48 vf1 releases. 

As it is you are forced to pay for a gbp to get side parts

and similarly there may be people who feel they are forced to pay for the fold booster to get the 19. (and not be interested in using a light up booster and want to save money)

but by adding extra stuff (beyond fold booster) in the accesory pack (like the heavy weapon thing for the 19, or the atmospheric booster for the vf11) people who want them can pay for them along with the FP parts; upgrading it to super version of whatever valk they want to "upgrade" to.

anyway it was just an idea..

425402[/snapback]

Extra stuff such as the target range VF-1J w/ Power Armor?

Not to mention all the extra craft that were seen during the testing.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Extra stuff such as the target range VF-1J w/ Power Armor?

They might also be able to chuck in ...er.. a vf-4 I saw ..er.. hanging around in the background somewhere but it was kinda sorta hidden. I swear it was there.. no really... jk

Edited August 16, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[GutsAndCasca]

that vf1j was in macross plus?

[Sumdumgai]

I would happily get a VF-11 from the squad Isamu was in at the beginning of M+. I like that nice dark color scheme.

The fast packs aren't really important to be personally for the 19 or 21, because they add more mass and spiol that nice thin look. The VF-11 goes great with or without fast packs on the other hand.

I would go for a fold booster, especially if it lights up. In particular if it lights up and sparkles!

I'm really curious to see how the feet are going to be done. How they fold up for fighter mode, if we see the engine nozzle thingy like on the VF-0 and the VF-1 (I lack aircraft vocabulary).

And I really want to see in detail how the gunpod hangs in fighter mode, how well the arms stow, and if there's gaps with the shield. And I'm praying it doesn't have shield problems like my 1/72 VF-11. Damned thing won't stay on in fighter mode... T_T

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

that vf1j was in macross plus?

it gets shot with paintballs. And the monster gets blown up by that heavy weapon too.

So much disrespect for the old mecha.

Edited August 16, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[UN Spacy]

that vf1j was in macross plus?

425418[/snapback]

Yes. During Episode 2....Isamu then proceeds to have fun with paintballs.

[promethuem5]

Just got back from my summer camp job, and THIS is what I find!? Heck yeah! I'm excited now... this is gonna be amazing.