The 2nd Coming of the YF-19

[Dobber]

Can't wait for any new news/images of this thing!!

I agree with Graham though, I like how the fighter looks, a little more realistic. But will also agree that the wings, stabs and fins need to be a little bigger. The canards are fine IMHO.

Chris

[Axelay]

I am positively thrilled about this new 19! I don't even have a single nitpick.

[eugimon]

I am positively thrilled about this new 19! I don't even have a single nitpick.

411506[/snapback]

I agree, I've always loved the Yf-19 design and this version just looks amazing. I get all warm and loopy inside when I think about it.

[Californium]

Ye gods man! What good is bein' a kickass weapons delivery system when the weapon you be deliverin' is so. . . . tiny?

Just make the gunpod a bit bigger please. I trust the rest be nosebleedworthy.

[Knight26]

I'm just surprised that no one has done a full photoshop overlay of these cad drawings, and the official lineart, and or the hasagawa line art. It would be interesting to see how they all compare.

[Graham]

One thing to consider, which I believe somebody else already mentioned, is that the production toy may end up different to the CAD lineart.

The same thing happened with the 1//60 VF-0S CAD lineart, which showed incorrect head lasers, with the laser being in the center of the ear disc instead of on the edge and also the gaps beow the knees, which on the CAD lineart were 'U' shape, but on the production toy were the correct 'V' shape.

Graham

[Aegis!]

Graham , don´t know if you can answer this or not , it´s more or less a matter of opinion.

Would you say that it´s become easier for Yamato to re-consider so-called ¨unlikely¨ projects now that they have introduced CAD/CAM into their production ?

It seems , to me at least , that after the 1/48 the production of new projects has been more fertile than in the past.

[Graham]

Would you say that it´s become easier for Yamato to re-consider so-called ¨unlikely¨ projects now that they have introduced CAD/CAM  into their production ?

411598[/snapback]

I'd have to say not really. The use of CAD/CAM means we now get toys which are superior to the old hand-crafted designs, that fit together better, have less gaps or asymmetrical parts and look more accurate to the anime. However, I don't think it greatly improves the cost of product development and manufature that much.

Yamato is still a relitively small company and they can really only afford to concentrate on VFs they think will sell well, i.e. the main VFs in a series. Saying that however, they have thrown us the occasional surprise before like the VB-6, so who knows!

Although, thinking about it, I think the VB-6 lost money as it usually needs more than a single production run to break even, let alone make a profit.

Graham

[Nani?!]

Yamato is still a relitively small company and they can really only afford to concentrate on VFs they think will sell well, i.e. the main VFs in a series. Saying that however, they have thrown us the occasional surprise before like the VB-6, so who knows!

Although, thinking about it, I think the VB-6 lost money as it usually needs more than a single production run to break even, let alone make a profit.

Graham

411614[/snapback]

Which is why I cringe when people say they'll wait for second runs as if it will definitely happen. In fact, waiting can very well prevent that second run from happening, or worse... Yamato pulls back from developing anything new and decides to just milk it's current molds as it has with VF-1's.

If you voice your delight over something developing and have desired something to the point of annoyance like I have with the YF-19, then ya gotta have the balls to support the initial run~

[eugimon]

That is a bit of a Catch-22.

On the one hand, you want to reward the company and encourage them to produce more high end valks.

On the other hand, you don't want them to fall into the habit of rushing a product out to market to float their budget knowing that they can release a "fix" in order to placate their consumers.

Meh. I still buy the first releases.

[kensei]

I really thought they would have thought of everything like loose joints by now, you know, the in the first few valks that make it off the production run BEFORE they continue? Perhaps not cause he had it on the VF-0. I hope that they learn it this time.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Although, thinking about it, I think the VB-6 lost money as it usually needs more than a single production run to break even, let alone make a profit.

That's such a shame. I'm very happy with the monster and hope we see more surprise releases like it. Maybe variable glaug or something.

That is a bit of a Catch-22.

On the one hand, you want to reward the company and encourage them to produce more high end valks.

On the other hand, you don't want them to fall into the habit of rushing a product out to market to float their budget knowing that they can release a "fix" in order to placate their consumers.

Meh. I still buy the first releases.

So long as there are fixes in later releases I am grateful. The way I figure it, you could always sell your first releases for cheap, and then upgrade to buy newer release when or if it becomes available. If there won't be anymore releases and the thing becomes rare, at least you are on the safe side. From now on I am going to be super delicate with anything first release just as a precaution. If not because they may be fragile, then because they are expensive or because you never know what you might do on your first handling of the toy when trying to transform the thing. (the FAST packs on the 1/48 vf1 always stress me out a little because one day the weight of these may snap the hinge off the valk)

Edited June 27, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Aegis!]

Would you say that it´s become easier for Yamato to re-consider so-called ¨unlikely¨ projects now that they have introduced CAD/CAM  into their production ?

411598[/snapback]

I'd have to say not really. The use of CAD/CAM means we now get toys which are superior to the old hand-crafted designs, that fit together better, have less gaps or asymmetrical parts and look more accurate to the anime. However, I don't think it greatly improves the cost of product development and manufature that much.

Yamato is still a relitively small company and they can really only afford to concentrate on VFs they think will sell well, i.e. the main VFs in a series. Saying that however, they have thrown us the occasional surprise before like the VB-6, so who knows!

Although, thinking about it, I think the VB-6 lost money as it usually needs more than a single production run to break even, let alone make a profit.

Graham

411614[/snapback]

Well , I meant mostly in terms of how easier/it is to use CAD/CAM instead of sculpting from the gound up.

I though maybe this method would allow them to test some draft designs before going into a more serious level of design/production.

Certainly CAD manufacturing saves them a lot time in terms of production schedules and all , look how fast they announced the VF-0A and the VF-19. My point is , based on this argument , would you think this factor allows them to partially c onsider venturing into succeful yet secondary valks ?

Kinda what happened with the 1/48 , 1 CAD model = X number of variants

or

CAD model vs phisical sculpt modeling = less production time = more time for new proposals

[Graham]

look how fast they announced the VF-0A and the VF-19.

411708[/snapback]

LOL.........if only you knew how many years the new YF-19 has been in development! 'Fast' is not the word I would use to describe it

And the VF-0A only involves a new head and color change, so of course it is quick.

Graham

[Dobber]

Ahhh Yes....if only!!!

Chris

[Batou]

Wow ... I wander off for a few days and look what shows up. I thought the weather report from Hell looked a little chilly.

I don't have the patience to read through all 17 pages of this thread so far ... Why does everyone keep mentioning the 21 and 11 as if they've been confirmed? Did I miss something? I'd imagine the 21 is a no-brainer if this one sells well (which - duh - it will), and they've probably got one in the works as well (at least as far as a CAD design ... easy to cancel if this thing flopped ... like that's even possible). Oh what I wouldn't give for a 17 while you're at it ... Hey, they did the VB-6 and that was out of left field ... They _do_ have the license for it, after all ...

I agree they should release this thing with the FP's. It's just a pair of leg and shoulder covers and hardly seems worth a second fp-release or an add-on kit unless they include a fold booster or something with it to make it worthwhile. Or something along the lines of that resin weapons kit someone put out a while back (Wave maybe? too lazy to go look it up) ... It's hard to tell if there will be any hardpoints on this sucker without a clear view of the bottom ... I hope at least you can pull out a missle or two from the leg missile bays ... Can't wait to find out what gimmicks they have in store for this one.

Anyway, holy crap is this fantastic news. And curse you Graham for keeping this from us ... not that you could help it. I just hope the rest of the secrets you're keeping from us are this exciting.

[eugimon]

No news on a 21 or an 11 release but it makes sense... specially the 21 since they should be able to retool it easily for a VF-22 version... mmmm... milia colors...

[striderhiryu]

Maybe some guys don't like how the forward fuselage side view looks, however i find it more real and it gives it a "strong" feeling to it, like in the F-22.

As for the F and S variants they only need to add a different shield, shoulders, lower legs and feet, different wing, heads and take out the cannards and add verniers instead.

Now if what we want are different repaints then i'd really would go for a F-16 type pattern.

Also i hope they include an extra seat and Yamg figure to go along.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

No news on a 21 or an 11 release but it makes sense... specially the 21 since they should be able to retool it easily for a VF-22 version... mmmm... milia colors... 

411756[/snapback]

They tried that on the original YF-21. There was a toycom ad from france some years back where they advertised the VF-22 Max type. But Yamato couldn't get the macross 7 license.

Still, I hope that if yamato does make a 1/60 YF-21, they retool it sometime later into a VF-22 from VFX-2. Hey we DID get a VF-19A from that game!

Now that I think about it, a 1/60 VF-11B in the VFX-2 color scheme would kick all ass as well. I gotta thing for that VF-11, it may be outshined by the YF-19, but damn thats one beautiful bird that never got the justice it deserved!

[eugimon]

No news on a 21 or an 11 release but it makes sense... specially the 21 since they should be able to retool it easily for a VF-22 version... mmmm... milia colors... 

411756[/snapback]

They tried that on the original YF-21. There was a toycom ad from france some years back where they advertised the VF-22 Max type. But Yamato couldn't get the macross 7 license.

Still, I hope that if yamato does make a 1/60 YF-21, they retool it sometime later into a VF-22 from VFX-2. Hey we DID get a VF-19A from that game!

Now that I think about it, a 1/60 VF-11B in the VFX-2 color scheme would kick all ass as well. I gotta thing for that VF-11, it may be outshined by the YF-19, but damn thats one beautiful bird that never got the justice it deserved!

411794[/snapback]

Hmmm... true true.. oh well, I'll settle for a VF-22 in general, doesn't have to be an M&M.

[Nani?!]

All of the plus valks kick ass and deserve the 1/60 treatment... but unfortunately they're not the sure-fire BONEFIDE HIT that the YF-19 is... Thus, I'm not sure if I should expect anything but the YF-19.

So far, lowered expectations have paid off in dividends for me and I'm running wit it~

[Batou]

All of the plus valks kick ass and deserve the 1/60 treatment... but unfortunately they're not the sure-fire BONEFIDE HIT that the YF-19 is... Thus, I'm not sure if I should expect anything but the YF-19.

I think the 21 would be almost (but not quite) as much a draw as the 19. If it sells even moderately well, I bet a 21 will follow within a year or so. I'd imagine they've at least given it some serious thought if they aren't already designing mockups in CAD.

The 11's much more iffy ...

So far, lowered expectations have paid off in dividends for me and I'm running wit it~ 

Amen to that. On the other hand, I never thought in a million years we'd see this one get made.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

specially the 21 since they should be able to retool it easily for a VF-22 version... mmmm... milia colors...

I remember there was also a black one that gamlin flew. Maybe if they can't get macross 7 license they could just repaint it as stealth yf21. hehe

LE Stealth YF21. (new pilot, panel lining, low vis stickers and everything)

Here my thing: I would buy the fast packs as seperate if the pricing was in line with the quality of the packs and how big/how small they eventually are.

For example the VF11 has big and chunky ones so I think it wouldn't be too bad if these were seperate, but for the yf19 I think it would be better if they just chucked them into the original relase and boosted the price if they had to, and just ignore a non-fp release.

I love the vf1 fast pack details. It's just that the FP for the 19 are more like covers and extra little bits and pieces.

Edited June 28, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[The6ftTallAZN]

No news on a 21 or an 11 release but it makes sense... specially the 21 since they should be able to retool it easily for a VF-22 version... mmmm... milia colors... 

411756[/snapback]

They tried that on the original YF-21. There was a toycom ad from france some years back where they advertised the VF-22 Max type. But Yamato couldn't get the macross 7 license.

Still, I hope that if yamato does make a 1/60 YF-21, they retool it sometime later into a VF-22 from VFX-2. Hey we DID get a VF-19A from that game!

Now that I think about it, a 1/60 VF-11B in the VFX-2 color scheme would kick all ass as well. I gotta thing for that VF-11, it may be outshined by the YF-19, but damn thats one beautiful bird that never got the justice it deserved!

411794[/snapback]

Got a pic of the VF-11B from VFX-2? Just wondering what it looks like

[AlphaOne]

While looking through the different types of posts, it got me thinking. The vf-0 was released with FP, so I wouldn't be surprised if the YF-19 was released with FP too (attached of course, the same way as the vf-0 ala magnets).

Now, what if Yamato was probably so impressed with the way the VF-0 was produced (CAD, magnets, other types of innovations) that they used what they learned from that, and applied it to the yf-19?...Alas, it's what lets me sleep at night while waiting for the YF-19...

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

While looking through the different types of posts, it got me thinking. The vf-0 was released with FP, so I wouldn't be surprised if the YF-19 was released with FP too (attached of course, the same way as the vf-0 ala magnets).

Now, what if Yamato was probably so impressed with the way the VF-0 was produced (CAD, magnets, other types of innovations) that they used what they learned from that, and applied it to the yf-19?...Alas, it's what lets me sleep at night while waiting for the YF-19...

411890[/snapback]

CAD wasn't really an innovation with the VF-0. Magnets yes, but CAD, no. CAD was used on the 1/48 VF-1.

I wasn't surprised at all that the VF-0 was designed in CAD and I think its a given that the YF-19 will be the same way.

What I think would be an innnovation would be an 2 part opening split canopy. (Like how its seen in eps3/4 when Isamu and Yang enter the craft, and when Yang is ejected). A covering to cover the 2nd cockpit would be cool to(the shell like thing that showed up when Yang ejected).

I think Yamato could pull this off buy making the rear part of the canopy hinged and swappable, so that the hinge remains to enable folding but is swappable at the point immediately afterwards, to enable the shell covering or 2nd canopy glass.

Besides, no YF-19 toy at this point has an accurately opening canopy.

[Nani?!]

What I think would be an innnovation would be an 2 part opening split canopy.  (Like how its seen in eps3/4 when Isamu and Yang enter the craft, and when Yang is ejected).  A covering to cover the 2nd cockpit would be cool to(the shell like thing that showed up when Yang ejected).

I think Yamato could pull this off buy making the rear part of the canopy hinged and swappable, so that the hinge remains to enable folding but is swappable at the point immediately afterwards, to enable the shell covering or 2nd canopy glass. 

Besides, no YF-19 toy at this point has an accurately opening canopy.

411902[/snapback]

I think it's a good chance we'll see the 2 part canopy. After all, if yamato has the balls to create a rotating cockpit for the 0S, then a two part hinge shouldn't be much of a problem...

However, swappable canopy for a function that's only shown for less than a minute total in the whole series I think is a bit useless... another part "removeable" can also mean another part "loseable"

I'd be happy if they make the two part cockpit with a adequately detailed rear cockpit.

[M'Kyuun]

I usually hold my comments and enjoy all of yours, but as it's the YF-19 that started my love of Macross, I'm really hoping that this is as well done as the 1/48 VF-1 and the VF-0, both of which are incredible feats of engineering in a transformable toy. Upon first seeing the lineart, I cringed at the fat underbelly, short nose, lack of curves and sleekness. To me, the YF-19 is all about sleekness. She's a fine lady, and should be afforded her rightful curves and profile. To my eyes, the new improved design seems to share the 1/72's forward section with a redesigned aft body. Although it suffers some inconsistencies with the lineart, I had very much hoped that if Yamato had ever decided to produce a new YF-19, they'd base it on Hasegawa's modified, nearly perfect-variable model( the one with YF-19 paint scheme and non-removeable, retracting LG). Even the LS YF-19 is curvier and sleeker in fighter. Yamato has proven themselves capable of staying very true to the fighters' designs, while striking a very agreeable balance between battroid aesthetics and articulation. However, I know they have to start with something and progress to a final model, so I look at my VF-0 and hope for the same treatment for our long-awaited Excalibur.

As an afterthought, though it's a little detracting, I'm willing to accept a more prominant uni-boob to achieve a prettier fighter. Both LS and Hasegawa designs featured a rather prominant mammary, but I see it as an acceptable shortfall to the battroid, and I generally favor B-mode over the F and G modes. My $.02

Edited June 28, 2006 by M'Kyuun

[Graham]

To my eyes, the new improved design seems to share the 1/72's forward section

412014[/snapback]

You are joking right?

The forward sections are totaly different.

• 1/72 canopy shape is completely the wrong.
  
• 1/72 landing gear wheels are half exposed even when closed.
  
• 1/72 has two ugly bumps on the underside of the nose, where the front landing gear attaches.
  
• 1/72 hybrid sensors are wrong shape.
  
• Front landing gear is too sort and mounted in the wrong location.
  

The new 1/60 has corrected all the above problems with the old 1/72's forward section, as well as the many, many issues with the rear section.

For sleekness, the new 1/60 YF-19 has every other production transforming YF-19 toy or model beat IMO.

Graham

[Graham]

I had very much hoped that if Yamato had ever decided to produce a new YF-19, they'd base it on Hasegawa's modified, nearly perfect-variable model( the one with YF-19 paint scheme and non-removeable, retracting LG). 

412014[/snapback]

I take it you are referring to the custom one-off Hasegawa conversion that appeared in the July 2002 issue of Hobby Japan magazine? (For those of you who don't know, the scans are in the MW magazine section).

While that custom has a sleek fighter mode, which seems to be extremely accurate to the lineart, it gets that by sacrificing battroid mode proportions and having a lanky looking battroid. The battroids torso especially is too long. Not too impressed with the face sculpt either, but that's nit-picking.

It's a nice kit though, especially as it's the only up to now that has a groin piece that actually folds the correct way in fighter mode.

While Yamato traditionally emphasise fighter mode the most, they can't over-emphasis it to the extent that the battroid mode suffers too much, which is why certain compromises have to be made to get the toy looking good in all three modes.

Graham

[M'Kyuun]

I definitely concede your point that this is the sleekest YF-19 design ever produced in a toy. However, I still prefer the Hasegawa model for their depiction of the fighter. A matter of opinion. Consulting my Macross Design Works, the fuselage containing the nose gear bay should only extend to slightly below the mid-point of the inside leading edge of the intake. The fuselage should arch mildly under the cockpit, and the nose should be slightly longer. The chines should curve inboard, giving a slight hourglass appearance when viewed from above. These are the characteristics I'd like to see. Looking at my MDW, Kawamori-san leaves somewhat to be desired in the area of consistency, esp when viewing different angles of the YF-19. Things have a tendency to shift slightly to provide a pleasing aesthetic, regardless of mode. And, like most fans, I'm nit-picky. It's only b/c I care. Still, his are some of my favorite mecha designs. His love of aircraft and remarkable ability to design a transformable sequence within the parameters of that design are manifest, and still unparalleled.

I have my opinion, Graham, but you have far more experience and expertise concerning Macross Valks. I'll gladly take your word that what we're getting is going to amaze us. <<shovels in a heaping helping of humble pie>>

Oh, and I mistakenly referred to the YF-19 as "Excalibur" in my previous post. It bore the code name "Alpha 1" in M+, if memory serves.

[M'Kyuun]

I take it you are referring to the custom one-off Hasegawa conversion that appeared in the July 2002 issue of Hobby Japan magazine? (For those of you who don't know, the scans are in the MW magazine section).

While that custom has a sleek fighter mode, which seems to be extremely accurate to the lineart, it gets that by sacrificing battroid mode proportions and having a lanky looking battroid. The battroids torso especially is too long. Not too impressed with the face sculpt either, but that's nit-picking.

Yep, it's lanky, but I still love the way it looks. Considering it's an extreme kitbash of a fighter model cum perfect-variable battroid, I get emotional every time I see it. The biggest nitpick I have with it is the overlong under-panel the nosecone sits on in battroid. If they could have cut it down to agree with the edges of the chest piece, it would have looked much better. I never looked too hard at the face, so I'll take your word.

Edited June 28, 2006 by M'Kyuun

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Maybe what they could do is have the nose section removable (and replaceable?)like for the vf1 nose cone for gbp or something to that effect? This way robot mode people get thier stubby boob, and the fighter mode people get thier sharp nose?

It's sort of like the crotch problem with vf1 in robot mode wearing the gbp. How did hikaru hide the nose cone when he went out in the fat suit? And how did the tv hands fit into the sleeve?

We see roy actually remove the nose of the vf1 entirely in sdf:macross, (equiping it to the forearm of the vf1s), so maybe they could do something like that?

edit:

Here's the cad drawing for vf0s:

when you look back, note how fat it looks from the side? And it turned out ok. Shouldn't be too much of a problem imo..

the canopy created the optical illusion that the nose was short:

Edited June 28, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Graham]

As I've said a few times already, trust me when I say it looks even better than the CAD lineart.

Graham

[Sumdumgai]

In Graham we trust. Or at least I do.

We've got line art to nitpick, he's seen a physical representation. At least Yamato isn't like MR with showing product development. I love MR's Star Wars stuff, but even on Rebelscum we don't usually get pictures of the products in advance (final or production).

Man, I'm so excited about the 19! If they release a VF-19A Excaliber, I'm not sure which one I'd go with.