Macross Political Climate

[KingNor]

Hm. If the technology is relatively safe then, I mean, without all the worry of decontamination and such in the event of a "problem", I'm surprised that tons of modes of transportation don't use fusion reactors. At least for military use. Maybe this will be prevalent in the near future? I wouldn't mind riding around on a small nuclear reactor if it meant I didn't have to pay these exhorbitant gas prices.

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The problem is making a fusion reactor WORK.

Fission is easy, but fusion is a lot more difficult.

To date, there are no successful fusion power plants, though they have a few that hypothetically would have surpassed break-even if they'd actually been equipped to generate electricity(break-even is the point where you get as much usable energy out of the reactor as you put into starting and sustaining the fusion reaction).

413564[/snapback]

that can't be possible though... you can't generate more energy than you put into something, thats a perpetual motion machine. i forbid you to break the laws of physics.

And yes fusion powerplants are the billion dollar prise right now. everyone wants to make one but no one knows how.

[Zinjo]

Oh, OK. 

In regards a limited fleet of variable aircraft...

Assuming there's no anime magic involved in the development time of variable fighters, these things are going to take a LONG time to develop, probably close to all of the 5-6 years they had to work with...

I don't think they 'stopped to start training' so much as they only were capable of putting two variable craft (with full support) into production, presumably with developmental work going on for a nuclear SV.

Aside from the fact that the SV and Octos (both being variable vehicles) likely took years to develop, fielding the AUN mobile units to support the weapon platform(s) they had committed to would take considerable development time and production resources.  In all probability, it's not that they willingly stopped devising new weapons, but instead they were intent on fully supporting the weapons they were fielding, and it was taxing their capabilities....

~Luke

It could also be attributed to resources and secrecy.

The AUN as well equipped and supported as it was, may not have had the same amount of resources at it's disposal as the UNG or most likely, they were limited by the need for secrecy, thus lower profile production facilities. The UNG had no such secrecy constraints and could build and test big ass destroids as much as they wanted.

The deployment of the SV-51 was a surprise to SPACY, so that tells us just how secret the AUN projects were.

The pilots we saw in Mac Zero were probably Ivanov's test team. So while Ivanov's "pirates" (my name, not canon) were engaging the Skull team, other AUN pilots were likely in training elsewhere.

[KingNor]

I don't know, the idea that a defeated group could develop that kind of weaponry, stolen or otherwise is kind of far reaching.

That would be like the Republican Guard of Iraq showing up now with several planes like the f-22 and tanks on par with the M1 after having stolen a few.

It would have been much more realistic if they'd captured actual working fighters and had modded them slightly.

The fact that they were able to make a completely diffrent airframe that competes with the plane built with full support is one of the many things that made Mzero just too out there for me.

It would be intresting to see whos' running the AUN side of things... maybe it some kind of maniac that the UN is stupidly ignoring along the lines of Brittan ignoring Hitler in WW2.

Its far to vague though, unlike SDF we arn't even given a hint as to what the powers are up to. It all seems so localized.

Maybe its been too long since seening Mzero but i dont' recall understanding the AUN's motives outside of not likeing the UN. what was the AUN's objective?

[JB0]

that can't be possible though... you can't generate more energy than you put into something, thats a perpetual motion machine.  i forbid you to break the laws of physics.

Not really.

We're only counting electrical power, but thermodynamics counts all energy.

As a more conventional example: By our count, burning coal generates far more energy than we put into it. By thermodynamic's count, it generates far less, with most of it being lost as heat.

And yes fusion powerplants are the billion dollar  prise right now.  everyone wants to make one but no one knows how.

They're getting really close. I'd bet in the next decade it'll be viable.

And actually, there HAS been one totally viable solution.

Unfortunately, it was deemed a serious security issue, as the solution involved blowing up a constant supply of fusion weapons in a cavern underground.

It worked, but the steady supply of nuclear weapons moving into the facility would've made it far too easy to "lose" a few, so the project was abandoned.

[Zinjo]

I don't know, the idea that a defeated group could develop that kind of weaponry, stolen or otherwise is kind of far reaching.

That would be like the Republican Guard of Iraq showing up now with  several planes like the f-22 and tanks on par with the M1 after having stolen a few.

It would have been much more realistic if they'd captured actual working fighters and had modded them slightly. 

The fact that they were able to make a completely diffrent airframe that competes with the plane built with full support is one of the many things that made Mzero just too out there for me.

I don't subscribe to the notion that the AUN battles were part of the UN Wars. The chronology is too vague to "assume" the AUN were even part of those territorial disputes. We don't hear of any AUN activity until 2002 as opposed to 2000 when the UN Wars began.

____________________________________________________________________

"July (2000)

Outbreak of dispute in People's Republic of Garalia in the Middle East. The frequent disputes and internal conflicts occurring hereafter in all areas of the world become collectively known as the U.N. Wars."

"July (2002)

First Defensive Battle for South Ataria Island against an Anti-U.N. Army attack."

The UN Wars are declared over in 2007:

"January 20 (2007)

Conclusion of U.N. Wars"

____________________________________________________________________

There is no mention of any victories, or even the terms of the ceasefire, it is assumed the UNG won, but we just don't know. It could have ended in a stalemate just the same or it was indeed territorial disputes that finally were resolved and the AUN Army was a separate enemy to SPACY & the UNG.

The events of Mac Zero take place in 2008 a year after the "conclusion" of the UN Wars.

____________________________________________________________________

"September (2008)

The U.N. government and Anti-U.N. forces secretly deploy the VF-0 and SV-51 respectively while disputing over a recently discovered phenomenon on the island of Mayan in the South Pacific Ocean. (The events are kept secret for at least five decades.)"

____________________________________________________________________

If the events on Mayan Island were kept secret for 50 years, would it not also be conceivable that the AUN war also be kept secret?

There would be little more threatening news to the public peace and security than the knowledge of a factional force armed with the same type of bleeding edge weapons systems as the UNG has. Not to mention the fact that these systems were developed by "defectors" to that cause. Then there is the idea that this adversary is still conducting operations a year after the announced "conclusion" to the publicized UN Wars.

It would be intresting to see whos' running the AUN side of things...  maybe it some kind of maniac that the UN is stupidly ignoring along the lines of Brittan ignoring Hitler in WW2.

Well it wasn't Britain who ignored Hitler, it was America, Britain and much of Western Europe were trying to "negotiate" with the lunatic, hoping to avoid another continental war.

However, I don't believe that was the case. I tend to support the notion that the UNG were trying to fight this separate war in secret, to keep the public from panic.

I may have been fairly easy up until the AUN upped the ante and revealed they had variable fighters too!

Yes it would be interesting to see the AUN side of the conflict.

Its far to vague though, unlike SDF we arn't even given a hint as to what the powers are up to.  It all seems so localized.

Maybe its been too long since seening Mzero but i dont' recall understanding the AUN's motives outside of not likeing the UN.  what was the AUN's objective?

The only revealed motives from the show is the desire to gain control of a newly discovered ancient weapon. No doubt from the AUN's point of view, this weapon would counter the power of the UNG's SDF1.

I suspect that at the core of the conflict was a difference in ideology in how the world government should utilize the OTEC and govern the people.

[Mephistopheles]

It doesn't really matter. The time it takes to develop a fighter usually spans two decades and that is without having to reverse engineer alien technology. Jumping from a F-22 to a VF in less than a decade is pretty much an impossibility. It wouldn't of mattered if the ASS-1 had instruction manuals in English on how to build a VF when it crashed. It would take a while to retrofit factories, understand the technology and then comes the building of prototypes. The SDF-1 and most of the technologies associated with it wouldn't have been ready in the time span allotted.

[JB0]

It doesn't really matter. The time it takes to develop a fighter usually spans two decades and that is without having to reverse engineer alien technology. Jumping from a F-22 to a VF in less than a decade is pretty much an impossibility. It wouldn't of mattered if the ASS-1 had instruction manuals in English on how to build a VF when it crashed. It would take a while to retrofit factories, understand the technology and then comes the building of prototypes. The SDF-1 and most of the technologies associated with it wouldn't have been ready in the time span allotted.

413781[/snapback]

So the entire franchise is technically impossible.

We already KNEW that.

[Mephistopheles]

It doesn't really matter. The time it takes to develop a fighter usually spans two decades and that is without having to reverse engineer alien technology. Jumping from a F-22 to a VF in less than a decade is pretty much an impossibility. It wouldn't of mattered if the ASS-1 had instruction manuals in English on how to build a VF when it crashed. It would take a while to retrofit factories, understand the technology and then comes the building of prototypes. The SDF-1 and most of the technologies associated with it wouldn't have been ready in the time span allotted.

413781[/snapback]

So the entire franchise is technically impossible.

We already KNEW that.

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So why do you argue over the technical aspects of it?

[Zinjo]

So why do you argue over the technical aspects of it?

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We argue within the context of the established universe.

Since in 1999 no alien space craft crash landed on Earth, the world wasn't plunged into chaos because of it, no Giant aliens were discovered to exist, etc... I suspect we are safe in determining that what is convention now, may not be if such extraordinary events were to actually take place. It's all speculation.

It's kind of like asking, how did America manage to go from concept to moon landing in 10 years? I'd suspect the answer would be motivation and strong sense of purpose. They didn't screw around, they just got the job done.

Thank God they weren't trying to design a modern fighter jet....

[Sumdumgai]

Our timeline is off. Just wait for that big ASS to crashland!

[GutsAndCasca]

And when that huge ASS finally crash lands, expect some major sh-t to go down with it.

[KingNor]

I'm a little confused as to why the AUN felt it was nessesary to build a Variable fighter in the first place. Did they also know about the Zentradi?

If so woudlnt' it have been far more destabilizing to the UN to divulge a bunch of huge (pun) secrets to the public. The UN was hiding a SIGNIFICANT bit of information from the people at large (pun).

I think info would have done more to further the AUN's goals than a pair of transforming fighter jets.

And in all honesty, Valkyries are good for fighting Zentradi, but probably not so hot at fighting dedicated fighter jets of the same technology level.

A dedicated fiighter jet with Valkyrie level technology would almost certainly fly circles around the Valk. With out the need for light hand to hand combat i'm not exactly sure what aero dynamic or agility purpose the arms and head on a fighter plane would be good for.

why do i punish myself by thinking about Mzero?

[azrael]

I'm a little confused as to why the AUN felt it was nessesary to build a Variable fighter in the first place.  Did they also know about the Zentradi?

If so woudlnt' it have been far more destabilizing to the UN to divulge a bunch of huge (pun) secrets to the public.  The UN was hiding a SIGNIFICANT bit of information from the people at large (pun). 

...

414026[/snapback]

They built a VF because it was still technologically superior to any current fighter. It would have tipped the war toward them. It was an arms race. The UN forces countered with their own VF. And when the discovery of AFOS, the race was on to capture that device. Whether or not they knew about the Zentradi didn't matter. It was an arms race, simple as that.

[GutsAndCasca]

Actually... I think a valk, with it's ability to change modes so rapidly and hover in place at will, would still whoop any fighter plane built specifically to fight it. I may be wrong, but I'll stand by that.

[GutsAndCasca]

I'm a little confused as to why the AUN felt it was nessesary to build a Variable fighter in the first place.  Did they also know about the Zentradi?

If so woudlnt' it have been far more destabilizing to the UN to divulge a bunch of huge (pun) secrets to the public.  The UN was hiding a SIGNIFICANT bit of information from the people at large (pun). 

I think info would have done more to further the AUN's goals than a pair of transforming fighter jets.

And in all honesty, Valkyries are good for fighting Zentradi, but probably not so hot at fighting dedicated fighter jets of the same technology level.

A dedicated fiighter jet with Valkyrie level technology would almost certainly fly circles around the Valk.  With out the need for light hand to hand combat  i'm not exactly sure what aero dynamic or agility purpose the arms and head on a fighter plane would be good for.

why do i punish myself by thinking about Mzero?

414026[/snapback]

Also, look back at the scene where Roy's old mentor breaks through the hull of the ship with is valk to steal that artifact piece. Can't do that with a fighter jet!

[Mephistopheles]

I'm a little confused as to why the AUN felt it was nessesary to build a Variable fighter in the first place.  Did they also know about the Zentradi?

If so woudlnt' it have been far more destabilizing to the UN to divulge a bunch of huge (pun) secrets to the public.  The UN was hiding a SIGNIFICANT bit of information from the people at large (pun). 

I think info would have done more to further the AUN's goals than a pair of transforming fighter jets.

And in all honesty, Valkyries are good for fighting Zentradi, but probably not so hot at fighting dedicated fighter jets of the same technology level.

A dedicated fiighter jet with Valkyrie level technology would almost certainly fly circles around the Valk.  With out the need for light hand to hand combat  i'm not exactly sure what aero dynamic or agility purpose the arms and head on a fighter plane would be good for.

why do i punish myself by thinking about Mzero?

414026[/snapback]

Also, look back at the scene where Roy's old mentor breaks through the hull of the ship with is valk to steal that artifact piece. Can't do that with a fighter jet!

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If you notice the sudden changes in modes allows a fighter to get behind a pursuing one. Although in reality it would probably cause the pilot to black out at the least.

They can also hide on the ground and play the role of a helicopter to some degree.

[sketchley]

Uhm, is everyone forgetting the first combat scene in Macross Zero?

Sure, it was one of the SV-51 aces, but it still proves that anything with variable OTEC technology whups non-OTEC butt. Missile swarms anyone?

[KingNor]

c'mon guys think outside the box a little.

a fighter with out the bulk of full transformation could have say... just the leg assembly, or a good VTOL system minus big moving peices.

this plane would be MUCH lighter ie: faster more agile. than the comparitively bulky valkyrie.

I dont' know why people assosiate a metalic robot humanoid structure with versatility. The valkyrie format isn't the godsend answer to dogfighting.

The valkyrie layout is for dogfighting + hand to hand infantry fighting.

flying around as a robot IS NOT BETTER THAN FLYING AS A JET.

The ability to change from a jet to a robot makes the valk more versitale overall but does NOT make it a better fighter plane.

My point a valkyries jet mode, striped of its ability to change into a robot, would make it an inherently better jet.

Overtech beats conventional technologie for sure.

but.. and here's the problems i have with the OTEC-makes-valks-god scenario:

There was nothing in the ASS-1 that "taught" us to build variable jets. It gave us composits and materials that put us far ahead, but the variable layout is 100% earth.

Infact, earths mechs are arguably better than the Zentradis in many cases. One could almost reason that while our raw materials were not as good as those on the ASS-1, our knowlege of robotics was far better.

the OTEC allowed us to free our limitations a bit. however there was nothing that i saw on the SDF (which mainly worked terribly) or in the Zentradi army that gave me the impression that the actual design of the valk was influenced by the ASS-1.

It's mostly the raw materials that make up the valkyrie that came from ASS-1

SO...

The prototype variable fighters in Mzero.. had to have been experimental on almost everylevel...

Alien components mixed in with .. uh.. COMPLETELY un-tried and true airframes and vehicle layout is not, in my opinion, a convincing scenario for a "super fighter"

I think the AUN and UNspacey BOTH were extreemly lucky that their gamble to make a next gen plane out of mateirals gained from the ASS-1 and the human designed variable technologie, all on one "straight to the front line" platform, paid off at all.

It would have been far smarter economicly to make a serise of purpose built vehicles and use them together stratigicly rather than pin all their hopes ona a few "super" fighters that were completely unproven.

also given that the valks primary role.. figher+infantry, is not present in a human vs human conflict. batroid mode in this case is not even being designed for what it was intended, valks are FOR fighting full sized zentradi. In Mzero the valks are far closer to the silly "super robot" shows than SDF macross.

whew what a ramble, no more early morning posts for me.

***to try and steer this post back on topic***

Logicly the only reason the AUN would put this much effort into building a variable fighter is because they some how found out about the Zentradi and wanted to be prepaired to repell them.

I feel they didn't even need to build their fighers if they really wanted to destroy the UN. Finding out damning coverups is a good way to destabilize a government!

"look they found this out about the aliens, and they didn't tell you.. look they are funneling all this money into a new figher. UN spacy is scared to DEATH about an attack from these space monsters, why havn'[t they told any of you about it?"

Disrupt the government you're trying to fight and your objectives get easier. All of a sudden UNspacy has no public support, they're not going to get the funds to 'recover' the Birdman thing.

AUN now has the hearts and minds of the people, possibly the funding (though they appear to independantly have resources to go toe to toe with UN anyway so maybe they don't even NEED public support).

Politics is a powerful thing, and no one in Mzero is using it. its all brawn brawn brawn. Maybe that Birdman robot is right in wanting to destroy us.

Edited July 6, 2006 by KingNor

[sketchley]

Yes, I've been stressing the point that the SDF-1 only provided the means, not necessarily the basics of a lot of the things humans developed immediately after it landed.

Why'd the Anti-UN develop the SV-51? Destroids. The UN were developing them since, well, within the year of the SDF-1 crashing. They needed something to go up against these next generation tanks.

This mentality also fits the design of the OCTOS: highly manuverable, and able to sneak up close underwater.

[Mephistopheles]

Valkyries do make a good all-purpose vehicle however highly specialized vehicles will always be superior to a general purpose one when they are performing the same roles.

The gerwalk and fighter mode of the Valkyrie have some pretty clear benefits. The gerwalk allows the Valkyrie to perform the same role as a helicopter. Although it does puzzle me why Valkyries usually take off and land in fighter mode when gerwalk would be much easier. You could launch more Valkyries at a time in gerwalk mode off of a carrier than you could in fighter mode, this is one of the reasons why new planes intended for carriers are incorporating vertical take-off technologies (F-35 also called the JSF). Battroid mode is debatable as it doesn't have a clear advantage over the other two forms unless you want to take hand-to-hand combat into consideration but that is moot as a jet doesn't need to fight hand-to-hand. The battroid does offer some range of motion advantages however those advantages could be nullified by altering the arm design of the gerwalk mode. Battroid mode doesn't seem to have a clearly defined role either.

Although what UN Spacy really needs to develop is a missile that has an omni-directional barrier around it. Missiles having built in self-defense have a huge advantage over ones that do not. Cruise missiles that could fold to their traget rather than use conventional propulsion would also make a good weapon.

Edited July 6, 2006 by Mephistopheles

[KingNor]

Although what UN Spacy really needs to develop is a missile that has an omni-directional barrier around it. Missiles having built in self-defense have a huge advantage over ones that do not. Cruise missiles that could fold to their traget rather than use conventional propulsion would also make a good weapon.

damn man, not even... just send a fold generator at the enemy, then fold them into the sun.

[GutsAndCasca]

Maybe that's the purpose of battroid mode? The jet can change into an anthropomorphic wizard fold-spell caster and use the finger digits to properly conduct the black magic necessary for hostile-fold technology. THAT's in the compendium. I'm sure of it. Jets can't cast spells, their hands are just not deft enough.

[KingNor]

Maybe that's the purpose of battroid mode? The jet can change into an anthropomorphic wizard fold-spell caster and use the finger digits to properly conduct the black magic necessary for hostile-fold technology. THAT's in the compendium. I'm sure of it. Jets can't cast spells, their hands are just not deft enough.

414124[/snapback]

True, but the fighter mode should be sufficient enough to cast enchantments.. since those IIRC are mostly verbal. The fighter mode of a Valk has external speakers that should get the job done.

[GutsAndCasca]

True --- but are there any enchantments strong enough to withstand a hostile-death-sun-fold? I think that one is a toughie.

[JB0]

Although it does puzzle me why Valkyries usually take off and land in fighter mode when gerwalk would be much easier. You could launch more Valkyries at a time in gerwalk mode off of a carrier than you could in fighter mode, this is one of the reasons why new planes intended for carriers are incorporating vertical take-off technologies (F-35 also called the JSF).

Speed. A GERWALK is a relatively slow target.

In space, they don't even need VTOL. Just fall off the edge and you're good to go(see: DYRL launch arms).

But in the series, they retrofitted the Prometheus with gravity generators and used the catapults anyways. Advantage was that it gets the fighters moving with a minimum of reaction mass expenditure.

Of course, the VF-1's transformation capabilities were also classified. They didn't want people to know about it. That probably had something to do with it too.

Although what UN Spacy really needs to develop is a missile that has an omni-directional barrier around it. Missiles having built in self-defense have a huge advantage over ones that do not. Cruise missiles that could fold to their traget rather than use conventional propulsion would also make a good weapon.

414106[/snapback]

ODB is probably too big to equip on a missile. Especially an ODB of any real durability.

Folding reaction warheads would be awesome, though.

[IAD]

Wow, abnormally-magical-variable-fighters... OT, are we?

Just another interjection:

Looking at the designs, the SV-51 is obviously fighter-mode optimized. It still looks like a modern fighter jet, quite similar to the latest Russian designs. Not to offend VF-0 fans, but that thing is less aerodynamic than certain WWII aircraft! I know it's supposed to be vaguely based on the F-14, but... The F-14 is a work of art, in comparison.

As to justification for adding any sort of transformational technology...

As has already been mentioned, the ability to pull a thrust-reverse maneuver is combat useful, as is below-stall-speed maneuvering, thus GERWALK is (in the Macross universe) justifiable.

Battleroid always struck me as just as exercise in eye-candy, but... Why not.

In regards the motivations of the UN/AUN for their fighting... I think the beginning of Mac Zero makes it pretty clear... They're fighting for control of the Macross... And it's not a secret war... Cities being carpet-bombed by B-2s are really hard to cover up, especially nowadays.

Anyway, Shin talks about the world waking up, concerning ETs... It seems that wasn't kept secret, either.

But, this is a series involving transformable superfighters... Do we really need a reason to fight a war, aside from the fact we have transformable superfighters?

~Luke

[Mephistopheles]

Although it does puzzle me why Valkyries usually take off and land in fighter mode when gerwalk would be much easier. You could launch more Valkyries at a time in gerwalk mode off of a carrier than you could in fighter mode, this is one of the reasons why new planes intended for carriers are incorporating vertical take-off technologies (F-35 also called the JSF).

Speed. A GERWALK is a relatively slow target.

In space, they don't even need VTOL. Just fall off the edge and you're good to go(see: DYRL launch arms).

But in the series, they retrofitted the Prometheus with gravity generators and used the catapults anyways. Advantage was that it gets the fighters moving with a minimum of reaction mass expenditure.

Of course, the VF-1's transformation capabilities were also classified. They didn't want people to know about it. That probably had something to do with it too.

That would make sense pre-Space War I but during Space War I it didn't really seem to matter especially since they had video games that depicted the VF-1.

I was referring to just taking off and landing in gerwalk mode. They show the Valkyrie having no problems going from a stand-still to great speeds in fighter mode with little problems. Also, it would be faster to deploy the Valkyrie in gerwalk mode than it would be to prepare and launch a Valkyrie in fighter mode. They don't have to line the gerwalk up with anything nor attach it to a catapult nor launch it down a runway to get it up to speed.

Edited July 7, 2006 by Mephistopheles

[JB0]

That would make sense pre-Space War I but during Space War I it didn't really seem to matter especially since they had video games that depicted the VF-1.

They were still equipped mainly for F-mode takeoff and landing.

I was referring to just taking off and landing in gerwalk mode. They show the Valkyrie having no problems going from a stand-still to great speeds in fighter mode with little problems. Also, it would be faster to deploy the Valkyrie in gerwalk mode than it would be to prepare and launch a Valkyrie in fighter mode. They don't have to line the gerwalk up with anything nor attach it to a catapult nor launch it down a runway to get it up to speed.

In space, reaction mass matters.

While in an atmosphere you have a limitless supply of air to propel yourself with, in space you have to carry something to eject for every twist, turn, and boost.

Launching from a catapult sent them moving towards the enemies for no reaction mass cost, thereby increasing the VF's operational time.

It saves fuel, in short.

Dunno if the Macross' internal hangers had catapults, though.

On the ground, it's probably just a matter of what mode the VF was parked in. Easier to launch in your current mode than it is to transform and takeoff.

[Mephistopheles]

That would make sense pre-Space War I but during Space War I it didn't really seem to matter especially since they had video games that depicted the VF-1.

They were still equipped mainly for F-mode takeoff and landing.

I was referring to just taking off and landing in gerwalk mode. They show the Valkyrie having no problems going from a stand-still to great speeds in fighter mode with little problems. Also, it would be faster to deploy the Valkyrie in gerwalk mode than it would be to prepare and launch a Valkyrie in fighter mode. They don't have to line the gerwalk up with anything nor attach it to a catapult nor launch it down a runway to get it up to speed.

In space, reaction mass matters.

While in an atmosphere you have a limitless supply of air to propel yourself with, in space you have to carry something to eject for every twist, turn, and boost.

Launching from a catapult sent them moving towards the enemies for no reaction mass cost, thereby increasing the VF's operational time.

It saves fuel, in short.

Dunno if the Macross' internal hangers had catapults, though.

On the ground, it's probably just a matter of what mode the VF was parked in. Easier to launch in your current mode than it is to transform and takeoff.

414222[/snapback]

Easier to land in Gerwalk mode than it is to land in fighter mode seeing as you can come from nearly any angle then hover and land especially on carrier landings. On land, if in Gerwalk mode, the VFs would only need to walk from cover then take off. It would be every VF at the same time as opposed rolling out the VF, lining it up on the runway, queuing the VFs as not all of them can use the runway at the same time, taking off then circling until the entire squadron makes it off the ground, then forming up and attacking.

[briscojr84]

That would make sense pre-Space War I but during Space War I it didn't really seem to matter especially since they had video games that depicted the VF-1.

They were still equipped mainly for F-mode takeoff and landing.

I was referring to just taking off and landing in gerwalk mode. They show the Valkyrie having no problems going from a stand-still to great speeds in fighter mode with little problems. Also, it would be faster to deploy the Valkyrie in gerwalk mode than it would be to prepare and launch a Valkyrie in fighter mode. They don't have to line the gerwalk up with anything nor attach it to a catapult nor launch it down a runway to get it up to speed.

In space, reaction mass matters.

While in an atmosphere you have a limitless supply of air to propel yourself with, in space you have to carry something to eject for every twist, turn, and boost.

Launching from a catapult sent them moving towards the enemies for no reaction mass cost, thereby increasing the VF's operational time.

It saves fuel, in short.

Dunno if the Macross' internal hangers had catapults, though.

On the ground, it's probably just a matter of what mode the VF was parked in. Easier to launch in your current mode than it is to transform and takeoff.

414222[/snapback]

Easier to land in Gerwalk mode than it is to land in fighter mode seeing as you can come from nearly any angle then hover and land especially on carrier landings. On land, if in Gerwalk mode, the VFs would only need to walk from cover then take off. It would be every VF at the same time as opposed rolling out the VF, lining it up on the runway, queuing the VFs as not all of them can use the runway at the same time, taking off then circling until the entire squadron makes it off the ground, then forming up and attacking.

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It may also have more to do with tradition and the fact that the poor schmoes in the control tower don't have to track 600 Valk's taking off simultaneously, god think of the air traffic control nightmare that would cause.

[KingNor]

Ok this one is somewhat political:

"reaction" weapon is a thinly veiled codeword for Nuclear weapon in SDF Macross, right?

This was part of what the Zentradi were intrested in iirc.

Why didn't we see the Macross firing nukes at the Zent's during SW1?

Did the UN ban nukes on the new flagship? Even as late as M7 we still see "lead-firing" guns, so I don't think it was part of a shift to energy weapons. why no nukes?

[Mephistopheles]

Ok this one is somewhat political:

"reaction" weapon is a thinly veiled codeword for Nuclear weapon in SDF Macross,  right?

This was part of what the Zentradi were intrested in iirc.

Why didn't we see the Macross firing nukes at the Zent's during SW1?

Did the UN ban nukes on the new flagship?  Even as late as M7 we still see "lead-firing" guns, so I don't think it was part of a shift to energy weapons.  why no nukes?

414325[/snapback]

Nukes don't make exciting battles that's why.

[Nied]

Ok this one is somewhat political:

"reaction" weapon is a thinly veiled codeword for Nuclear weapon in SDF Macross,  right?

This was part of what the Zentradi were intrested in iirc.

Why didn't we see the Macross firing nukes at the Zent's during SW1?

Did the UN ban nukes on the new flagship?  Even as late as M7 we still see "lead-firing" guns, so I don't think it was part of a shift to energy weapons.  why no nukes?

414325[/snapback]

Nukes don't make exciting battles that's why.

414363[/snapback]

That and Macross Plus explicitly mentions Nukes being politically dicey.

[JB0]

Ok this one is somewhat political:

"reaction" weapon is a thinly veiled codeword for Nuclear weapon in SDF Macross,  right?

This was part of what the Zentradi were intrested in iirc.

Why didn't we see the Macross firing nukes at the Zent's during SW1?

Did the UN ban nukes on the new flagship?  Even as late as M7 we still see "lead-firing" guns, so I don't think it was part of a shift to energy weapons.  why no nukes?

414325[/snapback]

Global was being stingy with the big guns.

He saves his reaction warheads until the final battle, then burns them all in one giant suicide attack(aside from the Valk-mounted RMS-1).

There were also tactical concerns, as seen in the first episode. The initial nuking of the zentradi in the first strike left most of their sensors blind.

[GutsAndCasca]

As for why they don't just lift off in Gerwalk, I'm sticking with the air traffic nightmare notion. And also maybe all the intense heat from all those thrusters would mess up the runway.