Macross Political Climate

[GutsAndCasca]

The world political affairs in SDFM are an absolutely huge aspect of the entire story, but completely overlooked. Probably for a good reason. It'll just piss people off to talk about it. I'm just looking for speculation, but anybody think the world will ever get divided into a UN and Anti-UN? If so... how do I sign up for the anti UN?

[Die, Alien Scum!]

There already was an Anti-UN. They lost.

[myk]

The Warsaw Pact? No wait, that was anti-NATO...

[sketchley]

The stuff from Macross Zero and the OTS is pretty clear.

What's more interesting, is the post SWI era - we know an Anti-UN exists (see VF-X2), but there are many more things hinted at (Macross Plus - Isamu Dyson's military record.)

The big question then is - why is there so much trouble? (Beyond the obvious - conflict makes for good storytelling. ) It is doubtful that it is only the result of meglomania or wanting to put forward a different world view (like the pre-SWI.) In otherwords, the UN Government, post-SWI, must be doing something rotten somewhere, to get so many people stirred up and motivated against them. Makes one think.

[myk]

Eh, as long as there is power to be had there'll be power struggles...

[JB0]

The stuff from Macross Zero and the OTS is pretty clear.

What's more interesting, is the post SWI era - we know an Anti-UN exists (see VF-X2), but there are many more things hinted at (Macross Plus - Isamu Dyson's military record.)

The big question then is - why is there so much trouble?  (Beyond the obvious - conflict makes for good storytelling. )  It is doubtful that it is only the result of meglomania or wanting to put forward a different world view (like the pre-SWI.)  In otherwords, the UN Government, post-SWI, must be doing something rotten somewhere, to get so many people stirred up and motivated against them.  Makes one think.

408680[/snapback]

Interesting question...

A lot of the zentradi didn't assimilate well into human society to start with. That's the first big source of trouble.

The new UN wasn't very strong, at least at first. There were major population centers that were independent, and proud of it.

If someone tried to force the issue later(as they apparently did, since the UN in Macross Plus seems to own the Earth), it could have generated a lot of animosity, especially in predominantly-zentradi regions(see next point).

We also know the new UN is prejudiced against zentradi, or at least non-micloned zentradi.

They restricted access to micloning facilities post-war, and being restored to full size was very difficult. The zentradi on Earth post-war viewed micloning as a basic right, which provided a lot of support to Kamjin's rebellion.

Non-miclones are actually banned from the Earth after 2030.

And the Macross 7 has very minimal zentradi-size facilities visible, despite having full-size zentradi on-board.

The fact that virtually everything shown after the original series is human/miclone-only indicates that AT BEST full-size zentradi have "seperate but equal" facilities off-Earth(an option made possible by the fact that the stars of Mac7 were all human-size).

It's Jim Crow all over again, only now he's 30 feet tall.

That certainly hasn't calmed anyone down.

Of course, most of the viable space ships around post-war became UN property as far as we know, which would greatly limit off-Earth rebellions, especially well-equipped ones(like the QRau squadron in Macross Plus OVA).

But it's possible a few ships mutineed some time after the final battle(possibly many years after, if it was motivated by UN prejudice), or just never joined the human-zentradi alliance(Kamjin himself tried to skip the system before the fighting started, and it was never really clear why he turned around).

[Renato]

As an aside, I think I remember reading in the compendium once that too much size-changing of zentradi and miclones caused some genetic illnesses or something and hence it was eventually band.

[sketchley]

Renato, you're misreading the 'mass cloning to repopulate the human species'. True, they used Zentraedi/OTEC cloning technology, but there hasn't been anything stated that use of micloning facilities is bad for the Zentraedi - except for Exedol's statement that he fears losing his extensive memories if he uses it.

JBO - good points about the Zentraedi.

[JB0]

Yah. The genetic defects were due to inbreeding, not a side effect of cloning or size shift. There were just too many "twins" running around, so the odds of accidentally marrying* a cousin you didn't know you had crept up fast.

And the population was large enough for good ol'-fashioned sexual reproduction to sustain growth at that point anyways.

*Or not marrying. I doubt a society trying to build itself up from the threshold for survival is going to place too much emphasis on traditional monogamous relationships.

[Nied]

*Or not marrying. I doubt a society trying to build itself up from the threshold for survival is going to place too much emphasis on traditional monogamous relationships.

Regrettably, yes. But it is, you know, a sacrifice required for ze future of ze human race.

Incidentally I think Renato might be remembering the back story for how Exsedol started looking like his DYRL version in M7. He was apparently worried about losing his mental capacities as a miclone so he macronised himself and added pulsing brain and tentacle mods.

[GutsAndCasca]

*Or not marrying. I doubt a society trying to build itself up from the threshold for survival is going to place too much emphasis on traditional monogamous relationships.

Regrettably, yes. But it is, you know, a sacrifice required for ze future of ze human race.

Incidentally I think Renato might be remembering the back story for how Exsedol started looking like his DYRL version in M7. He was apparently worried about losing his mental capacities as a miclone so he macronised himself and added pulsing brain and tentacle mods.

409097[/snapback]

Exedol gets micloned in M7? Maybe I should finish the series... I think I stopped on the 3rd DVD.

I think it's too bad the anti-UN get their asses kicked into what I'll assume is practical nonexistence. I think their ... valks? - look DAMNED cool in Macross Zero. But alas, having Roy Focker on your side has gotta' mess up the odds quite a bit.

- From my American perspective - the UN already sucks. I'm just wondering if Japan has gotten around to designing real-life valks so they can help us when my country (+ Israel) inevitably gets mobbed by the rest of the world. I've seen some interesting photos of some strength-enhancing wearable gear on the internet before (from Japan.) I wonder what kinda' stuff they can really make nowadays -?

On that note, I also read about some military higher-up in the USA saying we're working on building something reminiscent of the big yellow loaders in ALIENS (but not for combat purposes.)

[Nied]

Exedol gets micloned in M7? Maybe I should finish the series... I think I stopped on the 3rd DVD.

409155[/snapback]

No he gets micloned in the original TV series. The stuff about macronizing himself again was made up to explain why he's full sized and has DYRL style pulsing brain and tentacle mods in M7.

[JB0]

On that note, I also read about some military higher-up in the USA saying we're working on building something reminiscent of the big yellow loaders in ALIENS (but not for combat purposes.)

409155[/snapback]

We have been since the '60s.

And non-combat is misleading. They're trying to boost troop strength so they can carry more gear for more time without tiring. They already carry more than they're supposed to, and it greatly limits how far they can move on foot.

So they may not be intending to use it in combat, but it's certainly not for pacifism.

We will not see a government-sponsored guy run out in powered armor and try to stop the war with rock music... or the resulting doggie kibble when he takes an anti-tank round to the chest.

And rest assured, once they get the speed and responsiveness up, we WILL see the things in combat usage. Screw bullet-proof vests, we have infantry tanks!

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I remember DARPA had that design for the little doggy robot. After seeing the robot mule video (very creepy) I think it wouldn't be too far fetched to say we might have a animal robot in the future that runs low to the ground (harder to hit a running dog? more stability with 4 legs?) and can pick itself up off the ground if it trips. It could be helpful in a forest setting with uneven surfaces.

That would be cool. It reminds me of megaman where the little robot animals are used to drop supplies and stuff.

It's only a matter of time before they make a BuCue mecha.

edit:

some links on the dog:

http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fict....asp?NewsNum=54

http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fict...asp?NewsNum=349

mule:

http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fict...asp?NewsNum=561

Now if they just put guns on its back or sides and armed it with some weapons it could be more deadly than bipedal robot. (which has to crouch low to the surface first for stability and cover and risk falling over if there is a high centre of gravity)

Terminator vs robot dog would be interesting battle.

Edited June 19, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[GutsAndCasca]

Wow, that is some crazy crap lowviz! Now if they could just make the dog thing look cool, it'd be almost perfect. Until the next breed of robo-dog comes out. I'm looking forward to the Tachikomas making their debut in real life!

[GutsAndCasca]

Also, if our military comes out with infantry-tank equipment, I'm gonna' have more kids just so I can make them join the marines when they turn 18. And I'll expect them to send me lots of pictures.

[DestroidDefender]

RE: "Cloning"

The Zentraedi process we call cloning isn't really what we know as cloning today. It doesn't just grow new tissue from a DNA sample. It's more like the transporter on Star Trek. It dissolves the old body, create a new one, and somehow transmits the consciousness of the individual from the old body to the new one.

Assumedly the Zentraedi manufacture new soldiers by creating multiples copies from a single source. Now so such cloning as "copying" the complete adult body and consciousness.

[JB0]

RE: "Cloning"

The Zentraedi process we call cloning isn't really what we know as cloning today. It doesn't just grow new tissue from a DNA sample. It's more like the transporter on Star Trek. It dissolves the old body, create a new one, and somehow transmits the consciousness of the individual from the old body to the new one.

Micloning functions that way.

It's unclear how regular cloning works.

Assumedly the Zentraedi manufacture new soldiers by creating multiples copies from a single source. Now so such cloning as "copying" the complete adult body and consciousness.

409336[/snapback]

I would assume it works more conventionally, since otherwise deaths are a far bigger issue to the zentradi.

And there winds up being confusion and a lack of low-ranking troops as multiple troops "did" the same prior experiences and remember holding certain ranks. It won't maintain morale very well if troops keep getting busted back down to the bottom rung for no reason other than the higher-ups need more bottom-end guys.

On the other hand, the zentradi almost certainly DO accelerate the growth so clones come out as adults, and implant SOME brain templates, as they lack any knowledge of raising children.

So it's an intermediate.

[sketchley]

It's all speculation... the copying (as in photocopying off of a master) version of cloning* makes more sense, especially in the light of the DYRL version of the Zentraedi:

Breetai 7018

Exedol 135

Milla 437

etc.

The numbers imply that they are the nth copy of the clone template.

The clones are probably copied from an already aged master copy (why clone babies, when you can clone adults in their physical prime?) As far as training goes - the Zentraedi (or the Protocultures who designed the cloning technology) have the ability to transfer both memories and conciousness. They can pretty much do anything that we can come up with, and more...

Kind of like the Matrix, but with the restriction of overwriting parts of the brain. Thus, once a clone is 'released', it can't go back to get a skill upgrade, without the risk of losing memories, and/or ones conciousness. Or something like that. (This last part was based on an online conversation somewhere and is entirely speculation...)

*Isn't that a closer definition than our present day one - for if you grow cloned, it's environment will change it, and it'll probably become very different - a la the villian in ST: Nemesis who was a clone of Piccard.

[GutsAndCasca]

I wish I'd have known about the Macross RPG when I was a kid... I'd have played that.

[Zinjo]

Well back on topic.

Well there is no way the AUN is merely a terrorist organization. It would have to be backed by national interests to afford the funds to develop and produce their own variable fighter as seen in Mac Zero.

Thus this made them an even greater threat to the infant UNG. The fact that they could get into space and "steal" a space destroyer implies that they are a much bigger organization and better equipped than what was initially conceived for SDF Macross.

SK clearly expanded their role for Mac Zero, which opens up greater possibilies for the series.

The idea that the VF-0 was only a test bed for variable technology doesn't really explain why a "squadron" was built. That would allow one to suspect that Spacy "knew" about a threat of AUN variable fighters already and thus countered that threat with the VF-0 (as the VF-1 wasn't ready yet).

The demise of the AUN as an organized force really isn't adequately explained either. They "just lost" the war, doesn't cut it in light of how organized and equipped they were as was revealed in Macross Zero.

[eugimon]

I would like to see a show or OVA featuring a UN SPACY black ops team, putting down hot spots in colonies... it would be a fun way to see more of the macross universe and feature some nice military action as well.

[azrael]

Well there is no way the AUN is merely a terrorist organization.  It would have to be backed by national interests to afford the funds to develop and produce their own variable fighter as seen in Mac Zero.

There is a difference between the Pre-SWI Anti-UN and the Post-SW1 Anti-UN.

You have to remember that the Pre-SW1 A-UN was made up of lots of independent countries who refused to join the UN. Then you had defectors who left the UN and joined the ranks of the A-UN. This is how the Anti-UN was able to produce the SV-51. DD and Nora took the VF data with them when they defected. They found a interested parties (countries) and the rest is history. There were more countries in closer proximity with the man-power to do it.

The post SW1 A-UN is much more spread out less likely to start a war with the UN since the UN has a much greater fleet. The post SW1 A-UN is more likely to do hit-and-run tactics on supply convoys, kidnap people, make demands, etc., than declare open war on a group that could eliminate them with 1 shot. They don't have the resources in ideal locations to make such a move. With everybody spread out, you have more people likely to form their own faction with their own goals.

Thus this made them an even greater threat to the infant UNG.  The fact that they could get into space and "steal" a space destroyer implies that they are a much bigger organization and better equipped than what was initially conceived for SDF Macross.

Better times for the Anti-UN...

... ... (as the VF-1 wasn't ready yet).

...not exactly. The VF-1 was ready to go into production 1 month before the incident in the Pacific (was was placed into production 2 months later). The engines used by the VF-1 were not ready, not the VF-1 itself.

The demise of the AUN as an organized force really isn't adequately explained either.  They "just lost" the war, doesn't cut it in light of how organized and equipped they were as was revealed in Macross Zero.

409564[/snapback]

We don't know much about the situation of the Anti-UN at the time of M0. M0 may have been their last concentrated effort to make a stand. They may not have had the resources to continue large-scale operations after M0.

[JB0]

We don't know much about the situation of the Anti-UN at the time of M0. M0 may have been their last concentrated effort to make a stand. They may not have had the resources to continue large-scale operations after M0.

409577[/snapback]

Isn't it also possible they continued to be an issue up through the orbital bombardment?

I could be wrong(it's happened a lot lately), but wasn't the disappearance of Macross city attributed to a terrorist attack?

The annihilation of an entire city, with 0 survivors, by a terrorist group was considered a plausible story. It seems to me that would require a well-trained and well-equipped force to pull off.

[azrael]

We don't know much about the situation of the Anti-UN at the time of M0. M0 may have been their last concentrated effort to make a stand. They may not have had the resources to continue large-scale operations after M0.

409577[/snapback]

Isn't it also possible they continued to be an issue up through the orbital bombardment?

I could be wrong(it's happened a lot lately), but wasn't the disappearance of Macross city attributed to a terrorist attack?

The annihilation of an entire city, with 0 survivors, by a terrorist group was considered a plausible story. It seems to me that would require a well-trained and well-equipped force to pull off.

409581[/snapback]

They could have been an issue, but details are sketchy around there. They didn't make enough noise to be noted in the chronology.

I don't think we ever got an official word on what happened to South Ataria. I would have to watch SDFM again.

[Zinjo]

I don't think we ever got an official word on what happened to South Ataria. I would have to watch SDFM again.

409595[/snapback]

Well considering the VF-1 was smaller than the VF-0, it needed the smaller nuclear engines to be "ready". Thus, eventhough the airframe was ready, it simply couldn't fly.

I personally believe there is more to the Unification war that still could be told.

As for South Ataria island, it was essentially "sunk" when the Macross folded and took most of the surface of it to Pluto's orbit.

The island would still exist as a reef or even a crescent shaped land mass, but as a whole it was transported into space.

I was not really commenting on the post war AUN, which one could argue was a completely different animal entirely. The issues and supporters of the original were most likely wiped out during SW1.

Edited June 20, 2006 by Zinjo

[JB0]

We don't know much about the situation of the Anti-UN at the time of M0. M0 may have been their last concentrated effort to make a stand. They may not have had the resources to continue large-scale operations after M0.

409577[/snapback]

Isn't it also possible they continued to be an issue up through the orbital bombardment?

I could be wrong(it's happened a lot lately), but wasn't the disappearance of Macross city attributed to a terrorist attack?

The annihilation of an entire city, with 0 survivors, by a terrorist group was considered a plausible story. It seems to me that would require a well-trained and well-equipped force to pull off.

409581[/snapback]

They could have been an issue, but details are sketchy around there. They didn't make enough noise to be noted in the chronology.

I don't think we ever got an official word on what happened to South Ataria. I would have to watch SDFM again.

409595[/snapback]

There were comments about it between when the Macross returns to Earth and gets chased off again after the barrier overload.

Global was being told he couldn't unload the civilians because they were all officially dead and they didn't want Macross City running around telling people "Yeah, there's giant aliens shooting at us." Hence why he was cruising around Canada for a place to unload, since there was a "autonomous region" around Ontario.

I just don't recall the exact conversation. It might've been pitched as an accident of some sort, but I think it was a terrorist attack.

[GutsAndCasca]

I just watched that episode a week ago on the new dubbed Macross part 3 dvd. It was a terrorist attack.

Okay so the anti-unification forces lost the war. And then AFTER the war they developed variable fighters? That's some pretty spiffy technology to come up with. It had to stem from something else I'd think. What exactly were the sort of weapons used during the war then? Destroids? I always figured destroids were designed with the size of the "original owners of the SDF" (Zentraedi) in mind.

[sketchley]

Conventional weapons.

There's an episode later in the series showing Roy Fokker in his 'original' UN Fighter (McNell Douglar F-203 Dragon II) fighting Anti-UN (Mikolev MiM-31 Karyobin).

Ground forces included tanks, and the Siokorvsky Comanchero. (See opening of the TV series.)

There's also the possibility that they used Earth Trekkers too.

It's pretty easy to come up with technology after someone else has developed and tested it, and you steal it... kind of like how humans get OTEC by reverse engineering the SDF-1.

EDIT: forgot to mention: they did have access to reaction bombs. Did they make them or steal them? No idea. However, they did use reaction weapons to blow up one of the Grand Cannons mid-construction. I think they also used them (or was it nukes?) to blow up Saint Petersburg.

UN Wars = VERY violent, IMHO.

Edited June 21, 2006 by sketchley

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I just got thinking: Maybe the anti un were "allowed to exist" to give arms dealers something to sell to and keep both sides buying newer weapons? (ie like in gundam stardust memory where the toys for either side have to be about equal to keep war going on for as long as possible to stay profitable)

Without a justification for the need to upgrade weapons, (getting taxpayers to spend on research into the ASS1 for example) through some sort of conflict that threatens everyone, how are people supposed to believe they are in danger if they don't have an enemy or scapegoat to hate against?

Pre-SWI Anti-UN = macross equivalent of zeon? (able to steal and match against un because the technology is all new and both sides have no big headstart)

Post-SWI Anti-UN = macross equivalent of minor threat that the government doesn't take seriously but can blame if something bad happens. (ie when the titans in zeta gundam were formed by letting Gato get far enough to use him as a demonstration of why we need to form a dictatorship to control terrorists like him - and secretly having him on a leash all the time through rogue zeon that are easily bribable)

If the anti-un teamed up against the rogue zentradi maybe they might be able to take on the post SWI-un but I doubt the zentradi would do that. Macronised anti-un pilots working with giant aliens and teaching them about human weapons would be an interesting setting though. All the anti-un would need to do is have some kind of spy on earth able to steal information and inform the zentradi of how humans repair, abduct some scientists, create some factory and make variable powered armor (ie similar to mospeada ride armor?) for giants to counter the latest human-made UN valks.

Edited June 21, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[sketchley]

Who needs power armour when you can make VFs?

See -> Pheyos Valkyrie. Arguably the most lethal of the Anti-UN created VFs.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Who needs power armour when you can make VFs?

People scared to lose memories and intellect by going micro? The giant ape like commander might prefer using a heavy powered armor custom built for himself the same way you have elite ace pilots like char in gundam. Maybe something about the way the powered armor matches your exact body movements and allows you to do more fancy moves at close range, would seem preferable to aliens over robot controls? Think of the difference in agility between the Knight Sabers' powered suits in bubble gum crisis vs the more mechanical mecha the police use? (how they can dance circles around them and do somersaults, cartwheels and spins and poo?)

Plus it just might suit thier style to get close and smash fists into the mecha to disable them? (because they are so numerous and don't care if they die? the mecha equivalent of kamikaze attack?) If a giant can punch the valk in the chest or rip the chest off a vf1 with bare hands, imagine what powered suit could do? It might be worth it if you have huge numbers.

my order of goodness from crap to good:

1. destroids (slow and crap at close combat except for the spartan)

2. valks (fast but weak, designed for speed)

3. powered armor (can go fast in space but unlike the valk the controls are intuitive because you use your own body, and maybe there is less training to get one to move around) Qrau was seen flying circles around the valks in space because the ace pilots had freedom that a rookie learning complex controls might not be able to fend off at close range where the enemy has such speed that they can attack you at that vulnerable ranges. Of course an ace pilot like max who is one with his machine could survive but he is more the exception than the rule.

Instead of doing a preprogrammed robot punch you might be able to pull off a custom attack (combination of many attack in one smooth motion simultaneously like a combo - like wearing a suit that "adapts to you" instead of controlling a machine that you have to adapt to and be aware of limit) which the pilot can do in real life with thier own body. As a guard for a vip (say exedol) this might be preferable where the pilot has full manual control over all his own limbs and more freedom in how something should be done. It would be like the difference in manual and auto transmission in cars. The "auto" takes some freedom away.

I think part of the reason for needing to have brainwaves control the machine in macross plus might have even stemmed from the need for zentradi to have more intuitive controls in thier robot when they went micronised. (weren't there peole with thier brains hooked up to ships in DYRL?)

It just might be a different fighting philosophy for the alien to trust thier own ability over machines.

For example why doesn't exedol just recrod everything he knows into a computer which can give advice on previous war strategies? Maybe because they believe that computers don't learn the way aliens/humans can learn. Perhaps humans and aliens can adapt to situations better than an AI which "underestimates" the possibility that the opponent is smarter than the computer? (ie there is that theme in dragon ball Z where the saiyan have those power meter monitors and the computers "lie" about the real potential because they have outdated information which can't measure powers beyond levels the original creator of the machines had expected to exist..)

Edited June 21, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Zinjo]

Conventional weapons.

There's an episode later in the series showing Roy Fokker in his 'original' UN Fighter (McNell Douglar F-203 Dragon II) fighting Anti-UN (Mikolev MiM-31 Karyobin).

Ground forces included tanks, and the Siokorvsky Comanchero.  (See opening of the TV series.)

There's also the possibility that they used Earth Trekkers too.

Well that's now that's cast into question with the release of Mac Zero and SK's revision of the timeline. Now if BW decided to re-do SDF Macross to have a solely owned version of the story, anything would be possible then.

The timeline mentions that the UN wars were over by 2007, yet the AUN had 38 units built and at Mayan Island (2008) there only appears to be 1 Squadron (8 fighters max) in that incident. It appears a bit of a discrepancy may exist. If the war was over, why build 4 squadrons of SV-51s?

I'd expect that the story of the Unification War is not entirely over, maybe it's simply resting for the moment.

It's pretty easy to come up with technology after someone else has developed and tested it, and you steal it... kind of like how humans get OTEC by reverse engineering the SDF-1. 

They developed their own adaptation of the VF series from the stolen OTEC . The one thing that bothers me is that Israel is part of the design team with Sukhoi industries. THAT wouldn't happen! The alliance between the US and Israel is very strong and they wouldn't be on opposite sides of a conflict. Russia? Sure! China, the Arab states, Eastern Europe and even Germany I could believe, but not Isreal.

I suspect this was considered a natural progression as currently Russia and Israel are working on a few joint military projects. However in such a conflict as this, I just can't see them aligning with the AUN, as it offers them no benefit.

EDIT: forgot to mention: they did have access to reaction bombs.  Did they make them or steal them?  No idea.  However, they did use reaction weapons to blow up one of the Grand Cannons mid-construction.  I think they also used them (or was it nukes?) to blow up Saint Petersburg.

UN Wars = VERY violent, IMHO.

409659[/snapback]

It appears that the Grand Cannon in Australia was destroyed by the AUN forces, but no mention is made of nukes.

In Russian it is implied that tactical nukes are used, but it isn't clear whether it is OTEC reaction nukes or just cold war era nukes.

[azrael]

They developed their own adaptation of the VF series from the stolen OTEC . The one thing that bothers me is that Israel is part of the design team with Sukhoi industries.  THAT wouldn't happen!  The alliance between the US and Israel is very strong and they wouldn't be on opposite sides of a conflict.  Russia? Sure! China, the Arab states, Eastern Europe and even Germany I could believe, but not Isreal.

409699[/snapback]

Who ever said it was all of Israel or all of Sukhoi Industries? You are assuming that the Macross world follows the current world. It doesn't. We're all still waiting for that big ship to fall out of the sky for the past 8 years, the sky has been clear of large pieces of metal with big guns on them.

[JB0]

Who needs power armour when you can make VFs?

People scared to lose memories and intellect by going micro? The giant ape like commander might prefer using a heavy powered armor custom built for himself the same way you have elite ace pilots like char in gundam. Maybe something about the way the powered armor matches your exact body movements and allows you to do more fancy moves at close range, would seem preferable to aliens over robot controls? Think of the difference in agility between the Knight Sabers' powered suits in bubble gum crisis vs the more mechanical mecha the police use? (how they can dance circles around them and do somersaults, cartwheels and spins and poo?)

Or a QRau VS a Regult?

Plus it just might suit thier style to get close and smash fists into the mecha to disable them? (because they are so numerous and don't care if they die? the mecha equivalent of kamikaze attack?) If a giant can punch the valk in the chest or rip the chest off a vf1 with bare hands, imagine what powered suit could do? It might be worth it if you have huge numbers.

But the zentradi don't use power suits that way.

The NosGer has the big guns. The QRau has enough missiles to equip a moderately-sized air force.

It seems they give power suits to the people good enough that they never wind up in melee situations.

my order of goodness from crap to good:

1. destroids (slow and crap at close combat except for the spartan)

And the Spartan was the only one designed for a role where speed and melee were needed.

That's like griping because a hammer does a lousy job at cutting paper.

2. valks (fast but weak, designed for speed)

Great plane, mediocre robot.

The battroid reminds me of the saying Jack of all trades, master of none.

Sure it can do a little of anything, but it's not great at anything either.

3. powered armor (can go fast in space but unlike the valk the controls are intuitive because you use your own body, and maybe there is less training to get one to move around) Qrau was seen flying circles around the valks in space because the ace pilots had freedom that a rookie learning complex controls might not be able to fend off at close range where the enemy has such speed that they can attack you at that vulnerable ranges.  Of course an ace pilot like max who is one with his machine could survive but he is more the exception than the rule.

Actually, the QRau doesn't match our notion of powered armor.

The arms and legs don't fit into the mech's arms and legs. I think the line art shows a conventional control panel(I know Yamato's toy does). Though it doesn't rule out leg-based controls, it DOES rule out just walking to walk.

Besides, motion tracking works really well for human actions, and a lot less well for non-human actions like flying through space or shooting missiles out of your shoulders.

The big advantage is the form-fitting cockpit reduces the mech volume and surface area. Reducing surface area in turn reduces armor needed.

So a Regult masses 37000 kg for the "base model."

A NosGer masses 34700 kg.

A QRau masses 33600 kg.

Less mass = less momenteum = greater maneuverability.

Of course, the NosGer has almost twice the power of a Regult, and a QRau has over 3x the power. That certainly doesn't hurt.

I think part of the reason for needing to have brainwaves control the machine in macross plus might have even stemmed from the need for zentradi to have more intuitive controls in thier robot when they went micronised.

It's more an issue of complexity.

There's just too much information coming in and too many options going back out for a physical interface to remain intuitive.

Real world example:

Uppercut in Street Fighter 2:

Rapidly tap the joystick right, return to center, pull it down, then push it to the lower-right corner while simultaneously pressing one of 3 punch buttons to select the strength of the punch.

Uppercut in Real Life 1:

Punch something. Punch harder to punch harder.

You don't need to consider all the actions involved in actually making the punch.

Besides, limited real-world studies have indicated that the brain develops brain regions dedicated to new hardware when hardware is made available.

Assuming it scales... when a pilot finishes learning the YF-21 they aren't a big transforming robot pilot anymore, they're a big transforming robot that happens to have a soft squishy core("Mister Owl, how many hits does it take to get to the tootsie roll center of a YF-21?").

(weren't there peole with thier brains hooked up to ships in DYRL?)

Bodolzaa was.

As of yet, we don't know which version of Bodolzaa is the "real" one.

For example why doesn't exedol just recrod everything he knows into a computer which can give advice on previous war strategies? Maybe because they believe that computers don't learn the way aliens/humans can learn. Perhaps humans and aliens can adapt to situations better than an AI which "underestimates" the possibility that the opponent is smarter than the computer? (ie there is that theme in dragon ball Z where the saiyan have those power meter monitors and the computers "lie" about the real potential because they have outdated information which can't measure powers beyond levels the original creator of the machines had expected to exist..)

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Bingo.

Conventional computers can only do what the programmer and user tell them to do.

The DBZ computer hasn't been told to watch actual combat and adjust power levels based on observations.

By the same token, the ship's computer on Britai's pickle wouldn't have seen footage of the "miclones" in Macross City after the first attack and reminded Britai that zentradi legend said that Bad Things happened if you messed with miclones.

Exedol, as a sentient being, DID make the connection and brought it up.

Human(and presumably zentradi) memory is massively crosslinked.

"Submarine" might be connected to "really cool boat," "nuclear war," and "annoying song that loops in my head forever we all live in a yellow submarine oh god make it stop," as well as a massive number of other connections.

It's a horrible database design, because a computer can't tell which links are contextually appropriate. It works for us because we can evaluate everything at once and determine what links are most likely to be useful.

And if we occasionally get annoying bits of songs stuck in our head, well... it's the price we pay for sentience.

While Sharon Apple and the X-9 could likely evaluate things in a similar manner to humans and zentradi, Macross AI has proven to be a dead-end technology. It's got nagging issues with mental stability that make it unfit to be implemented outside a research lab.