Macross New Series

[Culverin]

i'm just wondering why macross has left rather large holes in the timeline?

it's it rather odd to have a universe spanning several series/ova and yet seemingly still have such large blanks left for us?

my history is rather sketchy, but why not supervision army stuff?

from a story telling perspective, i would love to hear the rest of the story, everything they haven't told us.

economically speaking, macross could have been a dominant player like gundam is today only if they only made more or it. in continuity... less one offs. and more often.

maybe i'm wrong to compare it to the popularity of gundam. but macross is "forgotten" not dead right? so why not just a full on series? not enough money to be made? not enough support now?

just thought i'd mine you guys for opinions

[KingNor]

I like to think of macross as a serise of unrelated personal storyies, set in a superficial but very intresting space and military backdrop.

Macross has never really been about war or fighting, thats just one element in the lives of the people in the series' which are generally just about their relationships with each other.

I dont know about another serise from macross, I'm a little afraid of where the next story would go. Imho as the franchise moves further from SDF Macross the feeling of the franchise has changed in a way that i'm not terribly fond of.

[sketchley]

The 'big plot holes,' so to speak, are the post SWI to the Macross Plus/Macross 7 era.

That 'hole' was partially filled with the backstory of both Macross Plus and Macross 7. In addition, Macross M3 went back and did an extensive story taking place in those 'missing years.'

Another way to look at is - nothing interesting happened during those years. Well, nothing interesting enough to make it into animation or a video game. Sure, they have ongoing mass cloning and colonization, but is that really enough to keep the viewers interested? Heck, it was the backstory to Macross 7, the justification of being where they were, and it was only briefly dabbled on.

IMHO, if we are to see more Macross series, it'll be in opposite directions. Given where Macross Zero took us, I'm not even going to attempt to guess where and what any new series will be.

[jenius]

Another way to look at is - nothing interesting happened during those years. Well, nothing interesting enough to make it into animation or a video game. Sure, they have ongoing mass cloning and colonization, but is that really enough to keep the viewers interested? Heck, it was the backstory to Macross 7, the justification of being where they were, and it was only briefly dabbled on.

Well, all our heroes from SDF Macross did disappear. Not that I'm saying we should see that story, I'm just saying there certainly could be stories worth telling. Besides, what really happens in Macross Plus? It doesn't really add anything to the "universe" other than introducing two new mechs but it sure is fun to watch.

Macross has a ton of potential but I think Mac7 was just awful and MacZero is only good visually. I too would be very afraid of what the next offering would be. I know i'd buy the toys for it

[sketchley]

Flashback 2012 - Hikaru, Misa, etc., ride off into their 'sunset' and "disappear" near the center of the galaxy after following some music filled transmissions from that direction.

Mac Plus - portrayed a multi-layered colony world quite deeply, as well as pointing the direction of 'Macross future.'

Mac 7 and Zero were great, with great themes. Perhaps they were lost on you?

[azrael]

One thing Kawamori likes is there are always different sides to a story and there are more stories to tell. Macross isn't Gundam. We don't get rehashes of stories or marketing like you won't believe. Macross is much smaller and fits into a genre which hasn't flourished as much as it use to.

Story-wise, not all of Kawamori's ideas fit into Macross. And so this leads to other projects and some time away from Macross. The best idea of that was Knights in the Sky. This idea had transforming fighters but in the end, the concept didn't fit the story. And so this story became Escaflowne. Kawamori has shown us that he likes to come back to Macross but there are other things he wants to do before it's too late.

[jenius]

Mac 7 and Zero were great, with great themes. Perhaps they were lost on you?

LOL, any time any one wants a good M7 bash thread you can count me in. If you're trying to instigate one I'm sure everyone else here on the board who has seen a thousand of them come and go will appreciate my honest response of "Yeah f*ckin' right."

[Culverin]

i've seen mac+. i like the story. but it's a short. it's not a full blown series.

i haven't seen mac7 or any of its iterations, it's on my list of things to watch, but it also looks super cheesy so it really low on my priorities list and always gets pushed back.

Maybe it'll give me a huge dose of macross goodness? who knows. But from the reviews i've seen for it here, i don't really have high hopes for it.

watched and loved DYRL.

i haven't seen Flashback 2012. can't find it anywhere online. wouldn't be on those imacross servers would they?

still nothing really compares to the original series does it?

[Nomake Wan]

Originally, when I heard about Macross 7, I was put off by it. Music as a weapon? An energy source? Sillyness!

But I ended up watching the whole thing anyway, and I gotta say, it's not really that bad. If you're pure to the war-worn goodness of the original Macross, it might make you gag. I can see that. But on the other hand, if you go in with an open mind, you might come out with a smile on your face instead.

Dunno, just my opinion, I guess...

[jenius]

There have been LOTS of Mac7 threads. If anyone is honestly curious about it and wants to know if they should dedicate the time and energy into seeing the show I highly advise them to use the search feature here and give those threads a read. Really though, as with any artistic medium, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and if you have a ton of free time and love anything else Macross I would certainly encourage you to watch it and come up with an opinion of your own.

Then, if your opinion differs from my own, we will all know how stupid you are (yes, this sentence is a joke)

EDIT - My point = don't let M7 derail this thread too much

Edited June 6, 2006 by jenius

[Hikuro]

Or at all.

Honestly just let the series end......There wasn't awhole lot to be said in a 40 year span (from 2009-2040) and VFX-2 covered the M13 incident, which was suppose to be a real shocker to the UN Government or something....but like I said, covered.

Kawamori has gone on record saying he doesn't give a rats ass about what happened to the Megaroad......and like so many others, we don't need to see another M7 portrayment.

Macross Zero should be the ONLY prequal so no more, and all the fill ins were covered by the Video games, so no more Macross WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOO, it's done!

[big F]

Macross Zero should be the ONLY prequal so no more, and all the fill ins were covered by the Video games, so no more Macross WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOO, it's done!

405854[/snapback]

I seriously doubt it but see your point. If they go anywhere they should tell the same story but from different peoples point of view. That would be interesting.

[Zinjo]

OK I am at a disadvantage, having never found a site or articles explaining the stories behind the games, so I can't comment on those unfortunately.

However most people are either unaware of forgot that Macross Plus was never intended to be a Macross story, but it was the only way Kawamori could sell his idea of a "Top Gun" type story to Big West to get the funding to make it.

At the time he was finished with Macross as far as he was concerned.

I suspect the biggest impediment to the continuing adventures in the Macross universe was likely the legal dispute over who actually owned the show as well as Kawamori's initial divorcing himself from it (maybe an attempt to avoid being typecast as a Macross only, idea man).

By the 90's it appears that it was established that Big West still owned the franchise, but no decision was made regarding the show that started it all. Hence Macross II and the subsequent greenlight of SK's top gun show aka Macross Plus, et al.

Kawmori has NOT said he doesn't give a "rats ass" about Megaroad, he just hasn't done a story about it and prefers not to visit that story. Yet he hasn't come right out and said he'd refuse to do one either. I doubt he'd ever limit himself in that way, so as to have the ability to do it if he ever found sufficient inspiration for a story.

There is some doubt as to how deeply SK was invovled in Mac 7 and the only definitive Macross works he's clearly done since SDF Macross is DYRL & Mac Zero (Mac Plus was not originally meant to be a Macross show).

So if there is enough inspiration I'm sure there will be more shows, but we have to keep in mind it takes SK approximately 3 years of pre-production before a show of his is produced.

I doubt Macross is dead, it just isn't the merchandizing machine that Gundam has become.

[Lightning]

there should be a story done about a destroid Monster squad during SW1.

[jenius]

Anything with SW1 has potential to garble the backstory even more. What interpretation is correct? SDF Mac, DYRL, or New Show? I really don't think anything has been "covered" by the video games. While the video games do have nice little plots (from what I hear) they certainly don't serve as an impediment from animating a story.

The point about Mac+ kinda shows that there's really nothing stopping more stories from being made.

[Roy Focker]

However most people are either unaware of forgot that Macross Plus was never intended to be a Macross story, but it was the only way Kawamori could sell his idea of a "Top Gun" type story to Big West to get the funding to make it.

Yeah people are always forgetting that and at the same time saying M7 sucks compared to Plus. What you liked better people became "Macross" after a rewrite.

Macross has been about the characters when Kawamori and company have character story to tell that think would be best suited in the Macross Universe then will see new Macross.

More stories are good but I don't want them to be made like a cookie cutter. Also leave some mysteries. After every mystery is told what is the fun then?

[jenius]

Yeah people are always forgetting that and at the same time saying M7 sucks compared to Plus. What you liked better people became "Macross" after a rewrite.

M7 sucks compared to Plus regardless of how it was conceived but I give you points for being the first to initiate that defense of Mac7... Crappier animation + crappier characters + crappier (sans VF-17) mech designs + crappier villains + crappier plot = crappier story. I could crap in a box and claim it was inspired by Macross and label it Macross, it doesn't make it good. Then again, if I took something good and labeled it Macross it doesn't make it worse.

Did we decide this wasn't a Mac7 bashing thread? I'll stop.

Edit - Tone, sounds harsh, not meant to be.

Second Edit - Grammar, doesn't look good to bash and type like a retard.

Edited June 7, 2006 by jenius

[Zinjo]

It has been said that SK had little direct influence on Mac 7 during production (speculation? Possibly), as he was concentrating most of his efforts on Macross Plus.

It's conceivable that Mac 7 was part of the deal to get Macross Plus made. However more knowledgeable members would be able to verify that.

Personally I am leaning toward that notion as I compare the stories of Macross Plus and Macross Zero compared to Macross 7. That isn't to say SK wasn't involved, but I often wonder to what extent he was involved.

[sketchley]

Have to point this out:

EDIT - My point = don't let M7 derail this thread too much

405816[/snapback]

4 of your 5 posts until now have mentioned Macross 7.

If you don't like it so much, DON'T MENTION IT. It'll naturally be left behind as the conversation progresses.

Zinjo - Re: the VF-X games: the timeline in the Macross Compendium mentions some of the events of the games. VF-X(1) gets all of one mention (basically the same thing as one the cover of the game: the justification for the story,) whereas VF-X2 has, I believe, every chapter/episode mentioned.

Macross M3 also has a bit mentioned on every chapter/episode.

I think that timeline is as 'official' as anything else is going to get on those 3 games. The timeline is also good, because it puts things into context and shows the time spaces between the missions (sometimes hours, sometimes months, sometimes years!)

[jenius]

If you don't like it so much, DON'T MENTION IT.

Gotcha, pro M7 is okay, anti M7 is not okay. That sounds fair. When my comments seem completely unprovoked, you let me know. For a guy who hates the series I think I was completely amicable about the whole thing (until my "crap" filled response to Roy).

It'll naturally be left behind as the conversation progresses.

You obviously haven't been a member long. Then again, maybe with AgentONE no longer here maybe there's hope.

[sketchley]

Gotcha, pro M7 is okay, anti M7 is not okay.

405965[/snapback]

That's not exactly what I said - the intent is: this is a pro-Macross website.

There are a lot of new members (myself included,) who have less, little or no experience with Macross (myself not included,) who are forming their opinion based on commentary herein. I humbly suggest that they be allowed to build their own opinion without having a background of biases against portions of Macross - as it is one big whole story.

Anyhow, let's bring this thread back to its topic: Macross future.

I want to see more Macross in animated form - not more in video game form. Let's face it - video games require investment. Investment in a compatible platform to play the game.

[azrael]

I don't see how your hatred or love of M7 works with this thread (Save it for a M7 opinion thread). As far as I am aware, the topic of this thread is about the missing animated gaps in the Macross timeline and why we don't see many new Macross series, not why M7 sucks. If anybody continues, I will see it as derailment and lock this thread.

Now...

It has been said that SK had little direct influence on Mac 7 during production (speculation? Possibly), as he was concentrating most of his efforts on Macross Plus.

Depends. As Creator, Supervisor/Story Concept, Mecha Design, Mechanical Specifications, Storyboard (episode 27), that is quite an involvement. Not to mention later involvement with M7 as Script writer(M7 movie), Series Script Supervisor, Ending Photography (MD7). Considering he was directing M+ (OAV and movie) at the time, this is not surprising that he handed day-to-day direction to Tetsuro Amino and Masami Shimoda. He definitely had a direct influence, but how far down the chain do we want to look?

It's conceivable that Mac 7 was part of the deal to get Macross Plus made. However more knowledgeable members would be able to verify that.

Email Egan Loo: eganloo@anime.net

[Tinderfitles]

macross might be in a very interesting position right now, on one hand you have it ending with macross 7. The jumping boards from this is actually pretty cool for instance you can make a serious with a battle fleet and the M7 fleet going after the other "lost" fleets. To prevent other exploitation of the UN's citizens, i can see it going an epic scale almost close to that of SW1. or course though i do have a tendency to just talk on.

p.s. hey guys =P

[Culverin]

that's the just the word i was looking for. epic.

to me, macross has always had this epic scale to it, like a space opera should be.

But the content we have been given (aside from original series) is rather, non-epic. the short ova's just don't seem enough. i had more of that feeling watching Macross II compared to Macross Zero or Plus.

Maybe it was just me seeing the SDF-1 again, but i felt the history.

Like what i'm watching was part of something larger, something connected. I never felt that with Zero or Plus. they seemed like tiny stories set in the macross universe, but not stories about the universe.

i know it's rather vague on my part, but does anybody understand what i'm saying?

also, when i started this thread, i guess what i should have asked was

what about the supervision army? origins? their fight with the zentradi?

the creation of the zentradi?

the meltran?

zentradi hierarchy etc...

there is just so much content i couldn't get sick of it.

Edited June 12, 2006 by Culverin

[big F]

I understand where yor comming from. I also agree.

[eugimon]

meh, I can pass on "epic." I just want good stories. Epic is one of those things that if everything clicks just right, you get it.. you get something grand in scope and vision... but when you try to hard for epic, you get M7.