About The Zentradi Battleships...

[Nomake Wan]

All right, so I'm looking over profiles on the Zentradi battleships on both the Compendium and MAHQ, and notice that neither list a "main cannon" in their weaponry loadouts. None of the ships I saw in Macross TV as having a splitting bow and a huge beam weapon had something like that in the armament.

So my question is, what is this beam cannon? Is it just all of the "guided assembled beam gun systems" together at once in one direction? But if so, smaller ships which were not seen to have used a big cannon also have these weapons equipped...

What's the deal?

[JB0]

All right, so I'm looking over profiles on the Zentradi battleships on both the Compendium and MAHQ, and notice that neither list a "main cannon" in their weaponry loadouts. None of the ships I saw in Macross TV as having a splitting bow and a huge beam weapon had something like that in the armament.

So my question is, what is this beam cannon? Is it just all of the "guided assembled beam gun systems" together at once in one direction? But if so, smaller ships which were not seen to have used a big cannon also have these weapons equipped...

What's the deal?

405342[/snapback]

I think it just means that the zentradi ships all have crap for specs.

[KingNor]

The SDF-1 (ass-1?) wasn't a Zentradi ship.

Judging from what i saw in the show, the SDF has a it's huge gun that the Zent' ships couldn't match, but aside from that i think the SDF's total damage output minus the main cannon was far less than the damage out put of one of the flag ships.

Remember the Zent's ships are old, the SDF is probably like a souped up sports car to the Zent's.

Did the Alien ships in DRYL have the splitting hull main cannons? or was that later in like Macross2 or something. (can't remember)

[Nomake Wan]

In Macross II they did attach Nupie...however you spell the main Zentran battleships to Macross-like vessels, thus creating the Macross Cannon ships... which did split.

I know that the SDF-1 wasn't Zentran--it was Supervision Army. But still, right in the show you saw Bodolza's fleet annihilate Earth with beam cannons, as well as Kamjin's ship fire a big beam from a split hull. It's that cannon from the split hull I'm referring to that's missing from all the specs.

Gotta agree with JB0 on this one. ^-^;

[Beltane70]

In the TV series only one type of Zentraedi ship had a splitting-bow cannon. It is mentioned in the Macross Compendium.

Gun Destroyer

?C?ͼBR> Government: ZENTRADI

Ship Type: GUN DESTROYERS

Dimensions, metres: Approximately 1500 (length)

Main machinery: reactor.

Cannons: One main bow-firing energy beam cannon.

Programmes: This medium-scale gun destroyer is used in planetary bombardment and large-scale fleet-to-fleet engagement.

The link to said data:

http://macross.anime.net//mecha/zentradi/s...oyer/index.html

[Zentrandude]

Bad guys don't need detail description on everthing they have.

[JB0]

I know that the SDF-1 wasn't Zentran--it was Supervision Army. But still, right in the show you saw Bodolza's fleet annihilate Earth with beam cannons,

Quantity vs quality.

They had enough guns that it didn't matter WHAT they were pelting Earth with. They could've been Nerf cannons and still done massive damage.

as well as Kamjin's ship fire a big beam from a split hull. It's that cannon from the split hull I'm referring to that's missing from all the specs.

I didn't recal Kamjin's splitting anywhere.

I remember BRITAI'S splitting in the factory satellite episode, though.

In the TV series only one type of Zentraedi ship had a splitting-bow cannon. It is mentioned in the Macross Compendium.

Gun Destroyer

?C?ͼBR> Government: ZENTRADI

Ship Type: GUN DESTROYERS

Dimensions, metres: Approximately 1500 (length)

Main machinery: reactor.

Cannons: One main bow-firing energy beam cannon.

Programmes: This medium-scale gun destroyer is used in planetary bombardment and large-scale fleet-to-fleet engagement.

The link to said data:

http://macross.anime.net//mecha/zentradi/s...oyer/index.html

405386[/snapback]

That would be the zentradi equivalent of the ASS-1.

Didn't they take Britai's ship to the factory satellite instead of a gun destroyer, though?

[KingNor]

cool, maybe i should watch SDF again.

[sketchley]

as well as Kamjin's ship fire a big beam from a split hull. It's that cannon from the split hull I'm referring to that's missing from all the specs.

I didn't recal Kamjin's splitting anywhere.

I remember BRITAI'S splitting in the factory satellite episode, though.

405395[/snapback]

I think he's referring to the final episode - Kamjin attacks the SDF-1 with an underpowered and heavily damaged Gun Destroyer.

But yeah, the Zentraedi had only two ships with the big gun (Breetai's flagship) and the Gun Destroyer.

The quantity over quality - in the Macross DYRL for the PS1 and Sega Saturn, a single shot from a 'regular' Zentraedi ship cannon vaporizes a good couple of city blocks, with cuncusive force spreading damage further beyond that. They show only 4 or 5 shots hitting the city on South Ataria Island - and those few shots destroy a good half of the city.

So yeah, who needs the big guns when you have a fleet of a 5 million plus ships, each carrying at least 8 (conservative estimate) of those 'standard' cannons?

[Nomake Wan]

So it's only Breetai's ship and the ship Kamjin used in the last episodes (yes, I was referring to that one)? Hmm... grah, I might have to watch SDF over again.

Thanks, everybody.

[JB0]

as well as Kamjin's ship fire a big beam from a split hull. It's that cannon from the split hull I'm referring to that's missing from all the specs.

I didn't recal Kamjin's splitting anywhere.

I remember BRITAI'S splitting in the factory satellite episode, though.

405395[/snapback]

I think he's referring to the final episode - Kamjin attacks the SDF-1 with an underpowered and heavily damaged Gun Destroyer.

Thanks.

I tend to forget the details on that one. Kamjin really should've put up a better fight.

So it's only Breetai's ship and the ship Kamjin used in the last episodes (yes, I was referring to that one)? Hmm... grah, I might have to watch SDF over again.

Thanks, everybody.

405420[/snapback]

Those classes of ship are the only ones we know have the big guns.

Given it's not listed on Britai's ship, but it IS animated, we have to assume the possibility that other classes have similar weaponry.

[Nomake Wan]

According to This archive, there's a "Monitor Class" version of the Nupetiet which has the splitting ship and cannon, whereas the normal version doesn't contain this weapon... that seems to be a good explanation.

[JB0]

According to This archive, there's a "Monitor Class" version of the Nupetiet which has the splitting ship and cannon, whereas the normal version doesn't contain this weapon... that seems to be a good explanation.

405432[/snapback]

That's all non-canon speculation.

And if nothing else, the "reflex furnace" part flags it as Robotech-ism. Robotech stuff strays pretty far from Macross' "reality" at times.

[sketchley]

I've heard the Gun Destroyer referred to as the Monitor Class too.

To be honest, a lot of the info on the QMDB is... how shall I put it? Creative.

My recommendation is to refer to the original source material (animations, video games, and lineart books), and Macross Compendium, in that order.

Other websites do have information, but you must be careful to avoid the common myths and falicies. For an example, a lot of English web information refers to the SDF-1 Macross, pre-crash, as ASS-1 (Alien Star Ship 1.) In the original series, it is NEVER refered to by this name. In reality, it is refered to as "Macross" or "Giant Alien Space Battleship."*

*"Macross Perfect Memory" pages 10 and 11.

"デフォールドã—ã¦ãるマクロス" and "西暦1999å¹´ã€å…¨é•·1200mメートルã«ã‚‚ãŠã‚ˆã†ã¶å·¨äººãªå®‡å®™æˆ¦è‰¦ãŒåœ°çƒã«è½ä¸‹ã—ãŸã€‚"

[KingNor]

ASS-1 is such a stupid name

[JB0]

ASS-1 is such a stupid name

405459[/snapback]

It's easier to type than "giant alien space battleship," "pre-reconstruction Macross," or "Supervision Army gunboat" though. And everyone knows what you mean when you say ASS, even if they dislike the term.

[Zentrandude]

ASS-1 is such a stupid name

405459[/snapback]

Does sound like a Porn thing.

Maybe we should unofficaly call it Pre-mac

[sketchley]

Well, why not GASB? It's technically one less keystroke than ASS-1, AND it's official.

[Nomake Wan]

Despite the rather "interesting" ending, Zero's canon, right? ASS-1 originated there... or at least, that's where I heard it used.

Thanks for the help, everybody.

[sketchley]

"Heard?" As in the spoken Japanese? Or in the fan-created English subtitles?

[briscojr84]

According to This archive, there's a "Monitor Class" version of the Nupetiet which has the splitting ship and cannon, whereas the normal version doesn't contain this weapon... that seems to be a good explanation.

405432[/snapback]

That's all non-canon speculation.

And if nothing else, the "reflex furnace" part flags it as Robotech-ism. Robotech stuff strays pretty far from Macross' "reality" at times.

405445[/snapback]

As stated on the main page it's not all canon, plus some of that data is almost 10 years old from when I did my first page based on Robotech, unfortunately I'm still only one person and don't always remember to catch old Robotech phrasings.

As for my reference to there being two types of Nupetiet I don't ever remember seeing the one in the series splitting so that's where that comes from.

It would also be a little more accurate if I could actually find someone to actually translate stuff for me, but my search goes on.

Edited June 5, 2006 by briscojr84

[Nomake Wan]

Macross Zero, episode one, the scene where Aries is trying to make a link between it and AFOS. Was pretty sure they said it.

Could be wrong, it's been quite a while since I've watched that series, too. Should fire it up and see.

*searches for scene...*

Yep. Quite clearly says, in Japanese, "Tsui rakushita ASS-1 no motashita OVERTECHNOLOGY ni yotte..." as Aries's beginning of her first sentence in the entire Anime. I apologize if I made a mistake during transcribing the words around it, but the point is that she clearly calls it "ASS-1."

As for the Nup...

I watched the Earth Destruction scene again... and they're all Gun Destroyers splitting open. That explains that. Still have to watch the episode where they go after the Factory Satellite to see if Breetai's ship splits too.

Edited June 5, 2006 by Nomake Wan

[sketchley]

We'll I'll be damned.

They actually do call it ASS-1 (comes across as ae-esu-esu-won, mind you,) in the animation.

I stand corrected.

[KingNor]

In a 1v1 fight SDF vs Breetai's ship (with out using main cannons or fighters, just ship to ship battles) breetais ship would win woudlnt' it? more firepower.

[Nomake Wan]

I would suppose so. Breetai's ship is larger and has more lesser (relative to main cannon on Macross) weapons than the SDF-1 does. Then again, the Macross has a barrier and Breetai's ship doesn't... though one could debate how long said barrier system would be effective for.

[azrael]

In a 1v1 fight SDF vs Breetai's ship (with out using main cannons or fighters, just ship to ship battles) breetais ship would win woudlnt' it?  more firepower.

405595[/snapback]

Breetai's would win only due to sheer volume. 4 km of ship to go through would take a while. Unless Macross makes some good hits to disable something of that size.

[Nied]

According to This archive, there's a "Monitor Class" version of the Nupetiet which has the splitting ship and cannon, whereas the normal version doesn't contain this weapon... that seems to be a good explanation.

405432[/snapback]

That's all non-canon speculation.

And if nothing else, the "reflex furnace" part flags it as Robotech-ism. Robotech stuff strays pretty far from Macross' "reality" at times.

405445[/snapback]

As stated on the main page it's not all canon, plus some of that data is almost 10 years old from when I did my first page based on Robotech, unfortunately I'm still only one person and don't always remember to catch old Robotech phrasings.

As for my reference to there being two types of Nupetiet I don't ever remember seeing the one in the series splitting so that's where that comes from.

It would also be a little more accurate if I could actually find someone to actually translate stuff for me, but my search goes on.

405547[/snapback]

There are a couple of times in the series when Vrlwhitai could have used a main cannon on his ship but didn't (notably "Viva Maria"). So either his ship didn't have one, or it wasn't working. Considering the all the refit/repair work shown in "Viva Maria" I don't find the second explanation very likely.

Given the only time we see a main gun equipped Nupetiet Vergnitz is in DYRL, do we even need to come up with an in-universe explanation other than the fictional producers of DYRL thinking it would look cool?

[briscojr84]

According to This archive, there's a "Monitor Class" version of the Nupetiet which has the splitting ship and cannon, whereas the normal version doesn't contain this weapon... that seems to be a good explanation.

405432[/snapback]

That's all non-canon speculation.

And if nothing else, the "reflex furnace" part flags it as Robotech-ism. Robotech stuff strays pretty far from Macross' "reality" at times.

405445[/snapback]

As stated on the main page it's not all canon, plus some of that data is almost 10 years old from when I did my first page based on Robotech, unfortunately I'm still only one person and don't always remember to catch old Robotech phrasings.

As for my reference to there being two types of Nupetiet I don't ever remember seeing the one in the series splitting so that's where that comes from.

It would also be a little more accurate if I could actually find someone to actually translate stuff for me, but my search goes on.

405547[/snapback]

There are a couple of times in the series when Vrlwhitai could have used a main cannon on his ship but didn't (notably "Viva Maria"). So either his ship didn't have one, or it wasn't working. Considering the all the refit/repair work shown in "Viva Maria" I don't find the second explanation very likely.

Given the only time we see a main gun equipped Nupetiet Vergnitz is in DYRL, do we even need to come up with an in-universe explanation other than the fictional producers of DYRL thinking it would look cool?

405614[/snapback]

The only plausible one I could think of is that the ones in DYRL are either refit or newer models that were built after the possible success of the Gun Destroyer, but oh well.

[Beltane70]

Other websites do have information, but you must be careful to avoid the common myths and falicies. For an example, a lot of English web information refers to the SDF-1 Macross, pre-crash, as ASS-1 (Alien Star Ship 1.) In the original series, it is NEVER refered to by this name. In reality, it is refered to as "Macross" or "Giant Alien Space Battleship."*

On another note, the term ASS-1 is also used in the timeline that appears on pages 54 + 55 in the Macross Perfect Memory book.

I noticed, too, that there aren't any cases of Britai's ship splitting in the TV series. Only in DYRL do we see this. All TV series lineart would seem to indicate that it wasn't a feature in the series. The movie lineart does contain illustrations of Britai's ship splitting as we see in the movie.

[JB0]

I guess I have to rewatch things again.

[sketchley]

There are a couple of times in the series when Vrlwhitai could have used a main cannon on his ship but didn't (notably "Viva Maria").  So either his ship didn't have one, or it wasn't working.  Considering the all the refit/repair work shown in "Viva Maria" I don't find the second explanation very likely.

Given the only time we see a main gun equipped Nupetiet Vergnitz is in DYRL, do we even need to come up with an in-universe explanation other than the fictional producers of DYRL thinking it would look cool?

405614[/snapback]

Just to muddy the waters of this debate: wasn't Breetai operating under orders NOT to destroy the SDF-1 and capture it instead?

There are many episodes in the series where the Zentraedi could have easily vaporized the SDF-1, but chose not to, with devestating loses.

We know that the Zentraedi fleet has specialized cannon ships - why weren't they used? Until episode 27 we don't know if they existed either. I think this boils down to a case of 'maybe they wanted to do it, but they never found a spot to include it, until the movie.'

[Beltane70]

I'll stick to Britai's ship not having a split-bow cannon for two reasons.

1. TV series lineart not showing it has one.

2. It's also not listed in any of the stats given in several Japanese sourcebooks.

[sketchley]

Then what is the weapon being fired by the ship when they go to capture the factory satellite?

[JB0]

There are a couple of times in the series when Vrlwhitai could have used a main cannon on his ship but didn't (notably "Viva Maria").  So either his ship didn't have one, or it wasn't working.  Considering the all the refit/repair work shown in "Viva Maria" I don't find the second explanation very likely.

Given the only time we see a main gun equipped Nupetiet Vergnitz is in DYRL, do we even need to come up with an in-universe explanation other than the fictional producers of DYRL thinking it would look cool?

405614[/snapback]

Just to muddy the waters of this debate: wasn't Breetai operating under orders NOT to destroy the SDF-1 and capture it instead?

There are many episodes in the series where the Zentraedi could have easily vaporized the SDF-1, but chose not to, with devestating loses.

I don't think it was originally an order, but they WERE trying to capture the Macross.

As I remember things, it was originally Britai's call.

We had reaction missiles. Being legendary weapons to the zentradi, he wanted to know how we got them, and made it a major priority.

That and we could repair our ships(heck, we could repair an alien ship we knew nothing about).

Between the 2 we were a VERY interesting race, and our knowledge could make the zentradi an even more formidable foe to any that dared cross them.

Or make Bodol's fleet more formidable if the zentradi started blasting each other because they couldn't find any other worthy foes.

...

Or just give Britai leverage for a major promotion.

Destroying a lone supervision army gunboat isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, especially an abandoned one manned by a bunch of backwards ignorant miclones on the ass-end of the galaxy that haven't even left their home solar system yet.

Britai was a high-ranking commander already, so it would take something far more signifigant to get him an advancement. And recovering the lost secrets of ship maintainence and reaction weaponry would certainly qualify.

I've always sort of wondered what would've happened on the zentradi side of things if he HAD successfully recovered that information.

Edited June 6, 2006 by JB0

[JB0]

Whoops.

Edited June 6, 2006 by JB0