Vf-17 Stealth Bomber ...

[Vermillion21]

So, I was checking on eBay and happened upon the VF-17 stealth bomber ...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Macross-7-VF-17-Specia...1QQcmdZViewItem

I've deduced that it's from Macross 7 (never saw this anime) and read Graham's very short toy review:

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/toys/_bandai_vf17s.htm

It's piqued my interest. Is this fighter cool or what? Why doesn't Yamato make this puppy like the VF-19? Or is this thing lame? Anyone have any thoughts? I assume some of you die hards have like 6 of these things .....

[big F]

I think it has to do with ownership of licencing rights. M7 is a different area Im not sure who owns it outright. Hopefully its not HG but I know that BigWest still have a say in it. I knwo that its not as popular as SDFMacros Zero and Plus are so maybe that has something to do with it. Graham is the best bet on this subject.

I for one would love to have a 1/48 Vf-17. But for now I`ll have to settle with my 3 1/72 Wave ones instead.

[kyatsu]

i am not sure what kind of toys you are looking for verm, but from my experience if you want something poseable, you wanna go with yamato. if you want something classic (stiff and not as poseable as the yamato, but still cool enough to leave in fighter mode, gerwalk or maybe a stand stiff battroid), then you can go with bandai. it's all depend on what you want buddy. i bought a re-issue of 1/55 bandai VF-1J three yrs ago. i really wanted this toy when i was a kid. back when i was living in thailand, my mom only got me one toy (orguss, the main character's robot). she didnt buy me any macross and whenever i stop by the mall, i always see the VF-1J and i felt sad. so, back to what i was saying, i finally bough the toy and took it out of the box and then put it back in the box and stored it away since. i think i realized then that it's a cool toy, but it's not the same as the yamato 1/48. i really like the yamato 1/48 due to the detail and articulation of the toy. so, it's all how you feel about the toy. i am just giving you my honest opinion. kyatsu

[Roy Focker]

I had one for a week and sold it.

The VF-17 looks decent enough in Macross 7 but that toy just doesn't cut it.

[kyatsu]

how come, mr. focker? if i may ask for your opinion? kyatsu

I had one for a week and sold it.

The VF-17 looks decent enough in Macross 7 but that toy just doesn't cut it.

403179[/snapback]

[kensei]

I think it has to do with ownership of licencing rights. M7 is a different area Im not sure who owns it outright. Hopefully its not HG but I know that BigWest still have a say in it.  I knwo that its not as popular as SDFMacros  Zero and Plus are so maybe that has something to do with it. Graham is the best bet on this subject.

I for one would love to have a 1/48 Vf-17. But for now I`ll have to settle with my 3 1/72  Wave ones instead.

403107[/snapback]

I'm not sure, but I think that Yamato can get away with it if they sell it under the VF-X2 or even VF-X licence and choose a different scale.

[Graham]

First of all, it's not a Stealth Bomber. According to the official Macross Compendium, the correct designation of the VF-17 Nightmare is; "UN Spacy special operations variable fighter and heavy battroid". In the Macross 7 TV series, the VF-17's of Dimaond force are actually used more as interceptors than in any other role.

IMO, the Banadi VF-17S (original or reissue) and VF-17D (original) toys are definitely worth getting.

On the positive side: -

• They are probably the most durable and rugged variable toys Macross toys ever made by any company, despite being all plastic, with no metal parts except screws. You would have to work really hard to break one of these.
  
• Proportions in Battroid mode are good.
  
• Arm articulation is good.
  
• The toy has a lot of panel lines, more so than Bandai's VF-19 toys made at the same time. In fact, the VF-17 toys have all the panel lines shown in Kawamori-sans 'detail-up' lineart.
  
• Transformation is quick and simple (30 seconds or less).
  
• It got that mean "don't mess with me look".
  
• It's Gamlin's ride. Gamlin is a special forces pilot from Macross 7 and my favorite character in the TV series.
  

On the negative side: -

• In Fighter mode, it's too chunky when viewed from the side, but looks great when viewed from above.
  
• The knees do no bend backwards, so the toy cannot be put into a kneeling pose, although it is possible to modify the knee joints so that the toy can kneel.
  
• Hip articulation is limited, so the toy cannot do a spread leg pose.
  
• The landing gear is terrible, basically just little fold-down tabs of plastic, with minimal detail.
  
• Hands are non-articulated.
  

While no doubt if they choose to Yamato could make a much better VF-17 variable toy, but I can't see it happening.

Personally, I love the Bandai toy and have about 10 of them.

Graham

[kensei]

While no doubt if they choose to Yamato could make a much better VF-17 variable toy, but I can't see it happening.

Personally, I love the Bandai toy and have about 10 of them.

Graham

403219[/snapback]

I see at least four variations of it though. It's not complex in function is it?

[Graham]

No, it's not complex in function.

Variants are: -

1) 1/65 DX VF-17D, released 1995, price ¥4,980. Packaged in Battroid mode. The blue trim & UN Spacy Kites are stickers.

2) 1/65 DX VF-17S, released 1995, price ¥4,980. Packaged in Battroid mode. The yellow trim & UN Spacy Kites are stickers.

3) 1/65 DX VF-17D Limited Edition with dark metallic finish, released 1996, price ¥????. Packaged in Battroid mode. No stickers, but comes with numbered plastic collectors card with VF-17D, VF-17S & VF-19S head illustrations by Kawamori-san. Plain box with no box art.

4) 1/65 DX VF-17S Limited Edition with gold metallic finish, released 1996, price ¥????. Packaged in Battroid mode. No stickers, but comes with numbered plastic collectors card with VF-17D, VF-17S & VF-19S head illustrations by Kawamori-san. Plain box with no box art.

5) 1/65 DX VF-17S reissue, released 2001, price ¥6,800. Packaged in fighter mode with redesigned box. The yellow trim & UN Spacy Kites are now painted on, instead of using stickers.

6) Unreleased 1/65 DX Millia type (red) VF-17S. Prototype was displayed by Bandai at a Japanese toy show back in 1995 along with a prototype VF-19F. Both were never released.

Graham

[Phren]

I personally love the 17D, and would love to have one, but if you're only semi-interested, I would think the reissue 17S would be the same thing as the vintage one, just cheaper, if you just want to check out the toy?

Edited May 29, 2006 by Phren

[Vermillion21]

Thanks to all for the detailed info, especially the listing of re-issues Graham! The valkyrie certainly looks cool! Guess I will look around for the Bandai re-issue, seeing as I love the "painted on" look. Hopefully I can find it cheap.

[Shaggydog]

I'm with Graham on this one. The VF-17's are great toys. I never got a gold/chrome version, but I did get a gold version of one of the DX V gundams (which I believe were made by the same people around the same time), and I wasn't very impressed. I'd go with the normal colored version.

[Chet]

No, it's not complex in function.

Variants are: -

1) 1/65 DX VF-17D, released 1995, price ¥4,980. Packaged in Battroid mode. The blue trim & UN Spacy Kites are stickers.

2) 1/65 DX VF-17S, released 1995, price ¥4,980. Packaged in Battroid mode. The yellow trim & UN Spacy Kites are stickers.

3) 1/65 DX VF-17D Limited Edition with dark metallic finish, released 1996, price ¥????. Packaged in Battroid mode. No stickers, but comes with numbered plastic collectors card with VF-17D, VF-17S & VF-19S head illustrations by Kawamori-san. Plain box with no box art.

4) 1/65 DX VF-17S Limited Edition with gold metallic finish, released 1996, price ¥????. Packaged in Battroid mode. No stickers, but comes with numbered plastic collectors card with VF-17D, VF-17S & VF-19S head illustrations by Kawamori-san. Plain box with no box art.

5) 1/65 DX VF-17S reissue, released 2001, price ¥6,800. Packaged in fighter mode with redesigned box. The yellow trim & UN Spacy Kites are now painted on, instead of using stickers.

6) Unreleased 1/65 DX Millia type (red) VF-17S. Prototype was displayed by Bandai at a Japanese toy show back in 1995 along with a prototype VF-19F. Both were never released.

Graham

403241[/snapback]

Thanks for this, Graham. This is very useful! Could your write up a similar list for the Bandai VF-19?

[Graham]

As requested: -

Bandai 1/65 Scale DX VF-19 variants: -

1) 1/65 DX VF-19 Custom Fire Valkyrie, released 1995, price ¥4,980. Packaged in Battroid mode. Yellow & white lightning bolt markings as well as other small markings are supplied as stickers (see here). Gunpod comes on sprue and requires assembly.

2) 1/65 DX VF-19S Blazer Valkyrie, released 1995, price ¥4,980. Packaged in Battroid mode. The yellow trim & UN Spacy Kites are stickers. Gunpod comes on sprue and requires assembly. Note, the toy is incorrectly supplied with the VF-19 Fire Valkyrie type Speaker Pod Launcher, instead of the correct YF-19 style gunpod used in the anime.

3) 1/65 DX VF-19S Blazer Valkyrie Limited Edition with silver metallic finish, released 1996, price ¥????. Packaged in Battroid mode. No stickers, but comes with numbered plastic collectors card with VF-17D, VF-17S & VF-19S head illustrations by Kawamori-san. Plain box with no box art. Gunpod comes on sprue and requires assembly. Note, the toy is incorrectly supplied with the VF-19 Fire Valkyrie toye Speaker Pod Launcher, instead of the YF-19 style gunpod used in the anime.

4) 1/65 DX VF-19 Custom Fire Valkyrie reissue, released 2001, price ¥6,800. Packaged in fighter mode with redesigned box. Markings are now painted on, instead of using stickers. Gunpod comes on sprue and requires assembly.

5) Unreleased 1/65 DX VF-19F Blazer Valkyrie. Prototype was displayed by Bandai at a Japanese toy show back in 1995.

As well as the above official variants, there have been several unofficial bootlegs made in Taiwan and perhaps mainland China as well.

Graham

[Vermillion21]

Thanks again for the great info Graham!

[eugimon]

While no doubt if they choose to Yamato could make a much better VF-17 variable toy, but I can't see it happening.

Personally, I love the Bandai toy and have about 10 of them.

Graham

403219[/snapback]

Hmm, so we have an official Graham confirmation that yamato will not be releasing the VF-17 in their quest to bankrupt me.

[physioguy]

I also think the VF-17 is the best Macross valkyrie ever designed. The toy is quite good for it's time and looks 5 x better with a simple airbrush job. If you dont know how to airbrush, even just painting it with a semi-flat acrylic black makes it look awesome. But I know many people are against painting their toys.

The only downfall i really see with the toy is that it's fighter profile is chunky. Sure, it's a little limited with respect to mobility, but it's a fine looking battroid. I'm currently working on the Wave model battroid to see how it looks, but i think i'll buy some more bandai vf-17s to try and customize a sleek fighter mode as well as an all black version.

[eugimon]

I don't know about "ever" but it is a nice design. The chest mounted guns would be great as an anti infantry weapon...

[Roy Focker]

I don't know to me it just look and felt more like a toy then others did.

[jenius]

The only downfall i really see with the toy is that it's fighter profile is chunky. Sure, it's a little limited with respect to mobility, but it's a fine looking battroid. I'm currently working on the Wave model battroid to see how it looks, but i think i'll buy some more bandai vf-17s to try and customize a sleek fighter mode as well as an all black version.

The biggest problem has got to be the knees. I did a project once where I took one apart and used snips to remove plastic from a few areas so the toy wouldn't look so darn stiff and it was amazing how much more articulation I was able to get out of it. Seriously, all it takes is some minor trimming around the knees and this toy gets a lot better. I think it's a fun toy but I would definitley stop short of saying it's one of the better Macross toys out there. It's overly chunky, it feels cheap, landing gears are poo, and over all there's not much detail. Oh Yamato... if only you could make your own version of this beast in 1/60 scale....

[baronv]

I am so wanting the VF-17D (I have the S), why is that version so hard to find?

[physioguy]

Please, let me reiterate. I said it's one of the best valkyries ever designed, on paper, not the best toy.

But remember that this toy came out well before all the yamato goodness. I would love it if yamato tried their hand at this figure. They would follow the basic transformation, and then all they'd really have to do is detail it better, add a few ball joints, add proper landing gear, and make the profile of the fighter sleaker by making the legs expand laterally when in battroid mode.

ah, to dream...

Edited May 31, 2006 by physioguy

[Chet]

As requested: -

Graham

403602[/snapback]

Thanks Graham!

By the way, are Macross 7 mecha off limits to Yamato?

[Uxi]

I drool to think of a Yamato VFX VF-17D in 1/60 scale

[jenius]

Anybody notice like six VF-17Ds got posted on eBay today? Okay, it seemed like six... then again, it might have been one guy with technical difficulties who just kept reposting the same ad -

[Vermillion21]

I drool to think of a Yamato VFX VF-17D in 1/60 scale

406564[/snapback]

How about one by Yamato in 1/48 scale?

drool .....

[Graham]

By the way, are Macross 7 mecha off limits to Yamato?

404114[/snapback]

From what I understand, Bandai's Macross 7 license has lapsed and they have not renewed it. So if Yamato wanted to pick up a Macross 7 license they could.

However, as Yamato already have a license for VF-X2 mecha, there is not much point for them to also spend money on a Macross 7 toy license. With the VF-X2 license they can make VF-17, VF-22, Full Armored VF-1B if they wanted to.

The only thing they cannot make is the VF-19 Fire Valk and VF-19F/S/P. However, I get the impresion that Yamato thinks there is not that much of a market for the Macross 7 style VF-19 series.

Graham

[Vermillion21]

Graham - C'mon man, spill those "future Yamato release" secrets .....

[kensei]

From what I understand, Bandai's Macross 7 license has lapsed and they have not renewed it. So if Yamato wanted to pick up a Macross 7 license they could.

However, as Yamato already have a license for VF-X2 mecha, there is not much point for them to also spend money on a Macross 7 toy license.  With the VF-X2 license they can make VF-17, VF-22, Full Armored VF-1B if they wanted to.

The only thing they cannot make is the VF-19 Fire Valk and VF-19F/S/P. However, I get the impresion that Yamato thinks there is not that much of a market for the Macross 7 style VF-19 series.

Graham

406984[/snapback]

WAHOO! This may be good news! I mean, Bandai seems to have done squat with it.

But they can completely milk the molds of a YF/VF-19 series, ther's only wing, head and canard changes right? Other changes are relatviely minor, actually there is quite a difference in the structure now that I think about it...

Macross 7 licence allows them to make a VF-11 white coloured version too if they wanted it.

[jenius]

Macross 7 licence allows them to make a VF-11 white coloured version too if they wanted it.

White version? I thought the only difference with the Mac7 VF-11 was the trim paint?

[Graham]

Macross 7 VF-11C is all white with black trim. The heatshield is also white. The FAST packs are a sort of dark blue or greenish blue depending on what source material you look at. Overall the Macross 7 VF-11C color scheme is reminiscent of the DYRL Super Valk scheme, although without a chest color stripe.

Other differences are that the thrusters on the Macross 7 VF-11C's back FAST Packs are squarish, whereas on the Mac Plus VF-11C, they are bell (or cone) shaped.

Also, the VF-11C has a different more streamlined gunpod with no bayonet and the back-mounted FAST packs only have two micro-missiles launching ports per pack, compared to 4 per pack on the Mac Plus VF-11B.

Overall, I prefer the color scheme of the Macross 7 VF-11C to the Macross Plus VF-11B.

Graham

[Graham]

WAHOO! This may be good news! I mean, Bandai seems to have done squat with it.

But they can completely milk the molds of a YF/VF-19 series, ther's only wing, head and canard changes right? Other changes are relatviely minor, actually there is quite a difference in the structure now that I think about it...

407126[/snapback]

I don't think it's necessarily good news. I mean if neither Yamato nor any other toy company want to touch Macross 7, what's good about it.

The differences between the YF-19 and VF-19F/S/P are huge. Pretty much every single part is different between the designs, requiring completely different tooling. I've studied this matter in depth in the past.

IIRC without checking the linart, the only common parts between the YF-19 and VF-19S/F/P may be the hands and biceps, but every other part is different.

Graham

[Chet]

From what I understand, Bandai's Macross 7 license has lapsed and they have not renewed it. So if Yamato wanted to pick up a Macross 7 license they could.

However, as Yamato already have a license for VF-X2 mecha, there is not much point for them to also spend money on a Macross 7 toy license.  With the VF-X2 license they can make VF-17, VF-22, Full Armored VF-1B if they wanted to.

The only thing they cannot make is the VF-19 Fire Valk and VF-19F/S/P. However, I get the impresion that Yamato thinks there is not that much of a market for the Macross 7 style VF-19 series.

Graham

406984[/snapback]

Thanks for the informative reply. Looking forward to the day when you can spill the beans on Yamato's future Macross toys!

[eugimon]

hmmm, a righteous VF-17 from yamato would be pretty nice! All sharp and pointy and inky black.

[kensei]

WAHOO! This may be good news! I mean, Bandai seems to have done squat with it.

But they can completely milk the molds of a YF/VF-19 series, ther's only wing, head and canard changes right? Other changes are relatviely minor, actually there is quite a difference in the structure now that I think about it...

407126[/snapback]

I don't think it's necessarily good news. I mean if neither Yamato nor any other toy company want to touch Macross 7, what's good about it.

Graham

407162[/snapback]

Just thinking that it's one less obstacle. But yeah, I suppose it's thank god for M3 or VF-X2.