New Robotech Shadow Chronicles Vid

[azrael]

I think Darkwater also kind of hit on something, it sounds like this OVA is meant to be part of a series (Oh God, can you imagine how long that series would take to come out???).  So, it's like watching the first three episodes of MacrossZero or some other small series like that and then reviewing it.  Obviously, the story will have sucked, the characters will feel undeveloped, and the resolution will be unsatisfactory.

424810[/snapback]

I think that's what they want. This OAV is meant to be a pilot for a new series...But the problem is, pilots are suppose to draw them in. If people are feeling respulsed by it, then we have a problem...

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

some of the reader comments are pretty harsh too:

Yikes - They Made This?

by Mr. Winston August 13th, 2006

05:28:18 AM CST

I read this script months ago. I'll have to admit never hearing of the ROBOTECH series before reading and I guessed at the time that there must have been much more of a story before this (indeed this review indicates that there was a precursor to the script I read). On the heels of that, I'm going to assume that hardcore fans of the original might be able to keep up. However, everyone else is going to be lost - the script, in the state I received it, was almost unintelligible. It didn't make a lick of sense to me from page one. I can't imagine how they might have possibly turned it into anything coherent. I'm actually shocked to read not only that there are fans of this series but that this project got made at all. That's not to say the original series or film or whatever it was didn't have merit; it very well may have. But the writing was so poor that, if you're really a fan, you're probably just going to be angry that they didn't even try to put together something that you could understand. It really was one of those scripts that you have to assume was written by someone to whom English was a second language. It didn't make sense to me as a continuation of something (obviously) but more than that it didn't make any sense as its own story - not because I didn't know the characters or the setting. Of course that didn't help, but...well, I'm running out of ways to say the writing was awful. I can't speak to the animation or the voice work but, based on the script, I'd have to recommend that anyone but a mouth-frothing, I'll-die-unless-I-see-it fan not waste your money.

..meaning the robotech fans will buy multiple copies (like the original robotech dvds) to keep it alive to get the shadow alpha toys made. Just kidding robotech fans...

[Vermillion21]

Ouch - after reading the 2nd review and review post, I may have to wait and rent this thing first. Unless I can find it cheap when it's released.

[Keith]

I think this says it all:

"And on the other end of the spectrum it seemed like the creative directors were trying to put their own, unique spin on the production and make it "their own," rather than be compared to the past and the creators who originally made their mark on this legendary series. "

As that was always the problem with robotech to begin with. Strangely enough, this has not detered me from wanting to buy this one bit, and if anything, it's making me want to re-watch the Sentinels in all its gay 70's spandex & handlebar mustache-ness. Just what is it that draws me to these robotech sequels?

Edited August 14, 2006 by Keith

[Panon]

This would worry me, if not for the fact AICN has absolutely zero credibility and should never be trusted for valid opinions.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I will end up watching it, but not get my hopes high.

Will be interesting to hear what the robotech fan has to say after seeing it.

"We will wiiin!" <--that was actually a pretty memorable song for me.

And as for cat robots: I just got the idea. Why don't they clone that thing from gundam seed destiny (gaia gundam) and make a variable cat robot that doesn't shatter? The problem with the sentinels mecha is they didn't have enough armor around them. That is why they kept breaking. Sort of like the toynami valks.

[Keith]

I don't think it was a simple lack of armor, but a total cheapening out on materials all together (like the toynami's). If they had better armor, they would have only cracked to pieces in side that armor. Plus they couldn't even kill an old man!

[uminoken]

Hey at least the music is getting good reviews. If they release a cd I might pick up a copy. I can think of at least a dozen soundtracks I've bought but I wouldn't touch the movie with a ten-foot cattleprod - Judge Dredd, Starship Troopers, Wing Commander, Godzilla (US), Heavy Metal 2...

[Keith]

And Heavy Metal 1 for that matter....

[Legioss]

Looks like the other cons are getting the first 7-10 minutes of the movie we saw at Aurora-Con. I don't know if this is representative of the whole thing, but what I saw didn't measure up to the standards of Japanese animation or dialogue. IMO with few exceptions Korea doesn't know how to animate properly. On the American side, the dubbing studios over the years have gotten worse. I'm fortunate to be a student of Japanese these days.

[azrael]

Looks like the other cons are getting the first 7-10 minutes of the movie we saw at Aurora-Con. I don't know if this is representative of the whole thing, but what I saw didn't measure up to the standards of Japanese animation or dialogue. IMO with few exceptions Korea doesn't know how to animate properly. On the American side, the dubbing studios over the years have gotten worse. I'm fortunate to be a student of Japanese these days.

425272[/snapback]

So the HG panels at the cons this summer are only showing 7-10 minutes of footage? That's not surprising. And unfortunately, I don't count 7-10 minutes of footage as watching the whole thing.

[Ginrai]

Looks like the other cons are getting the first 7-10 minutes of the movie we saw at Aurora-Con. I don't know if this is representative of the whole thing, but what I saw didn't measure up to the standards of Japanese animation or dialogue. IMO with few exceptions Korea doesn't know how to animate properly.

425272[/snapback]

Too bad almost all TV animation in Japan is now animated in Korea, where it's cheaper. Have you watched any robot anime made in the last 5 years? It all looks like that. Mars Daybreak, the new Transformers shows, blah blah...

Edited August 15, 2006 by Ginrai

[bandit29]

Sounds like the new RT movie is a stinker...who would have thought that

Oh well that's what Netflix is for........

[TheLoneWolf]

Who wants to take bets that this OAV will create more questions than it does answers?

[ogami]

Sounds like SC can be the downfall of HG... XD

[Vermillion21]

Who wants to take bets that this OAV will create more questions than it does answers? 

425390[/snapback]

Good call mate ... you're probably right on that.

[Keith]

Sounds like SC can be the downfall of HG... XD

425469[/snapback]

Considering they let Tommy Yune do the character designs & direct it, they truly only have themselves to blame.

[ogami]

Sounds like SC can be the downfall of HG... XD

425469[/snapback]

Considering they let Tommy Yune do the character designs & direct it, they truly only have themselves to blame.

425507[/snapback]

Tommy Yune character designs are very lifeless. Even Pokemon has better character designs.

[Legioss]

Too bad almost all TV animation in Japan is now animated in Korea, where it's cheaper. Have you watched any robot anime made in the last 5 years? It all looks like that. Mars Daybreak, the new Transformers shows, blah blah...

425336[/snapback]

Shadow Chronicles is different because it's not anime. The animators are left to do what they want, and that's make Sentinels '06 because it's cheap. Same situation as Sentinels. It didn't look like Zillion but they both came out the same year. I'm comparing it to Japanese animation because HG wants to use words like "anime" and "OVA" to describe it. They want SC to be compared to Macross Plus? Okay they got it.

[Ginrai]

Shadow Chronicles is different because it's not anime. The animators are left to do what they want, and that's make Sentinels '06 because it's cheap. Same situation as Sentinels. It didn't look like Zillion but they both came out the same year. I'm comparing it to Japanese animation because HG wants to use words like "anime" and "OVA" to describe it. They want SC to be compared to Macross Plus? Okay they got it.

425974[/snapback]

Now, I haven't seen Shadow Chronicles yet, just the trailers online, and it looks about the level of your average mecha TV animation in Japan in the last year or two. It's not fair to compare anything to Macross Plus these days since that was traditionally animated and NO ONE does that anymore (sadly). A better comparison is, like I said, any other Korean animated TV animation aired in Japan these days, and it's competing at that level.

Personally, I absolutely hate CG/2D productions and despite the CG robots infesting anime these days. Even Macross Zero looks like crap in my opinion, especially the normal anime characters clashing badly with the awful CG water and the jerky movements of the CG robots, so don't get me wrong here. I really really dislike CG robots being used for anything other than a straight CG movie (like Appleseed). I'm just saying you have to be fair with what you're comparing it to.

So I hate the entire technique, but this is on par with stuff coming out of Japan, so don't act like it some horrible American abomination.

Furthmore, Sentinels' animation by 1986 or whatever standards is mostly not bad... as long as the Macross characters are not on screen. Those look like crap. But the action scenes on Tirol with Inbit blowing the hell out of Bioroids are good for the time, definitely outpacing Mospeada's sloppy Animefriend-only animation.

Rumor has it the Japanese animators intentionally made the scenes with Macross characters crappy and did a good job on the other scenes because they intended to cut it into a new show in Japan that did not have the Macross characters. Macek talks about in Robotech Art 3, and points out how this essentially happened with Zillion when a ton of Sentinels designs were used in that show.

[Vermillion21]

Macek talks about in Robotech Art 3, and points out how this essentially happened with Zillion when a ton of Sentinels designs were used in that show.

Really? Sentinels ideas in Zillion? I had no idea. Come to think of it, I wonder if Zillion is on DVD?

[yellowlightman]

Who wants to take bets that this OAV will create more questions than it does answers?

Given that it's supposed to be the first part of a new series/movie/whatever thats a given.

Shadow Chronicles is different because it's not anime. The animators are left to do what they want, and that's make Sentinels '06 because it's cheap. Same situation as Sentinels. It didn't look like Zillion but they both came out the same year. I'm comparing it to Japanese animation because HG wants to use words like "anime" and "OVA" to describe it. They want SC to be compared to Macross Plus? Okay they got it.

Uh, how is SC not anime? It's animated by the same people that do most Japanese productions (hint: they're not Japanese). Furthermore, there's plenty of stuff that comes out of Japan that looks like utter garbage so that's a ridicuous argument.

Oh right, if it's not Japanese it's not good.

It's not fair to compare anything to Macross Plus these days since that was traditionally animated and NO ONE does that anymore (sadly).

Uh, wasn't Macross Plus kinda well known for breaking away from the hand-drawn norm of anime of the day? What with all the CG and all...

Rumor has it the Japanese animators intentionally made the scenes with Macross characters crappy and did a good job on the other scenes because they intended to cut it into a new show in Japan that did not have the Macross characters. Macek talks about in Robotech Art 3, and points out how this essentially happened with Zillion when a ton of Sentinels designs were used in that show.

Sentinels designs appeared in Zillion because Tatsunoko had put a lot of effort into designing all sorts of crap for The Sentinels and when the series went bust they had a lot of unused designs they needed to put to use. Had nothing to do with a Japanese conspiracy of stealing Sentinels for their own use.

Although the Japanese working on The Sentinels WE'RE against using the characters from the Macross Saga, there were different reasons. One was that if word got out there was some kind of Macross sequel Japanese fans would go crazy. That's why the Macross characters look SO different in The Sentinels. The second reason is that the general practice in Japanese animation is to use new characters for new series...

Edited August 23, 2006 by >EXO<

[jenius]

The people at RT.com that have seen it seem to like it... but I guess that was to expected.

[Roy Focker]

Yeah M+ used CGtoo the difference is in most cases only CG was on the screen. I think when they have cell and CG going on at the same time things look odd.

[justvinnie]

The people at RT.com that have seen it seem to like it... but I guess that was to expected.

426118[/snapback]

I was curious , so I checked out the reviews. Reading them, you'd think this was the greatest thing ever and the next evolution of animation. Everwhere else people have said the animation is subpar, but these reviews claim the animation is better than Yukikaze and M0. I'll believe that when I see it. I don't have high expectations, so when I see this, there's no where to go but up. Unlike Superman, which was a total let down.

vinnie

[bsu legato]

CG in anime is far too overhated. Sure there's been some less than stellar examples in recent years, but a lot of the new anime has managed to blend it in seamlessly with the traditional style animation. The Tachikomas and power suits in GITS 2nd Gig are a good example. I think it's particularly found its niche when directors started using it for environments, allowing them to use "real world" filming techniques like steady-cams, crane shots, snap zooms, etc. The fact is that CG is here to stay, and the considering the advantages it offers it's unlikely directors will discard it "just because."

This won't excuse SC from having sub-par, year 2000 style CG though. With HG's "deep pockets" you'd think they could have shelled out the cash to hire a decent studio.

[Ginrai]

Uh, wasn't Macross Plus kinda well known for breaking away from the hand-drawn norm of anime of the day? What with all the CG and all...

There's a tiny bit of CG in Macross Plus, tiny bit in Escaflowne... it was just starting out. 99.9% of the series is hand drawn, and the CG fold sequence only works because it's an altered reality thing and the entire thing is CG. Did you miss the part where I was complaining that CG and 2D stuff clash badly? The characters walking in front of the CG ocean look terrible in Macross Zero.

Sentinels designs appeared in Zillion because Tatsunoko had put a lot of effort into designing all sorts of crap for The Sentinels and when the series went bust they had a lot of unused designs they needed to put to use. Had nothing to do with a Japanese conspiracy of stealing Sentinels for their own use.

No, it has to do with them using whatever materials they had at hand to avoid spending more money. What makes you think they wouldn't have re-edited and redubbed Sentinels as a new show in Japan? It would have been a waste not to.

Although the Japanese working on The Sentinels WE'RE against using the characters from the Macross Saga, there were different reasons. One was that if word got out there was some kind of Macross sequel Japanese fans would go crazy. That's why the Macross characters look SO different in The Sentinels. The second reason is that the general practice in Japanese animation is to use new characters for new series.

Yeah, Robotech Art 3 also mentions that. And I don't doubt it. But the scenes with the redesigned Macross characters in Sentinels are really poorly animated, especially any scene with Minmay in it. God, the scene when they're in the store trying on the wedding dress is horrible. RA3 also says they couldn't use the Japanese scripts because they totally marginalized the Macross characters and no matter how much HG pushed them they insisted on focusing on the new characters, so that's why Sentinels switched to American scripts.

[Ginrai]

CG in anime is far too overhated. Sure there's been some less than stellar examples in recent years, but a lot of the new anime has managed to blend it in seamlessly with the traditional style animation. The Tachikomas and power suits in GITS 2nd Gig are a good example.

I think the CG in GITS is not very good either. I mean, whatever, it's not cheap, but it sticks out badly and screws up the show for me. I can dislike whatever technique I want to. I don't like it, and I would prefer full CG ala Appleseed or just fully animated digital 2D. You can still draw robots with a stylus. They don't have to be CG.

I think it's particularly found its niche when directors started using it for environments, allowing them to use "real world" filming techniques like steady-cams, crane shots, snap zooms, etc. The fact is that CG is here to stay, and the considering the advantages it offers it's unlikely directors will discard it "just because."

So make your movie in CG. It's like making a movie with paper dolls pasted over a real environment. It's gimmicky and distracting and I don't like it. The characters don't make the environment at all, and there's zero depth. Bad bad bad. I'm sure it's unfortunately here to stay, but it's not here to stay for artistic reasons, it's here to stay because it's a lot cheaper to build a model in a computer once and then just rotate it and pose it and whatever on screen. Who cares if it jars badly with everything else on screen? It's cheap.

It's not for artistic reasons at all.

This won't excuse SC from having sub-par, year 2000 style CG though. With HG's "deep pockets" you'd think they could have shelled out the cash to hire a decent studio.

Yeah, go to hell DR Movie! How dare those stupid hacks animate for Macross Plus, Hellsing, Reign, Heroic Legend of Arslan (god that one is awesome), Ghost in the Shell, they even did in-betweens on Yukikaze. Those talentless losers.

[bsu legato]

I can dislike whatever technique I want to.

426182[/snapback]

Whoa! So defensive! Nobody said you couldn't. It's a good thing I skipped the remainder of your post.

[Ginrai]

And it's a good thing I just killfiled you!

[bsu legato]

And it's a good thing I just killfiled you!

426230[/snapback]

Heh...well if all it takes is for somebody to offer a differing opinon than your own, then you go girl!

[Effect]

The people at RT.com that have seen it seem to like it... but I guess that was to expected.

426118[/snapback]

Wouldn't trust those reviews anyway. I mean a lot of people on RT.com are either so starved for any new type of Robotech animation that they will praise it no matter what it's like. Also many of them are clueless at the overall situation and really don't care to know any better I think. It was like that years ago. Those that didn't just accept poo for what it was and actually paid attention to the entire situation are pretty much gone or were banned. Tommy Yune and Steve over there like it when people kiss their ass and act like they are the best thing that's ever happen to Robotech when it's exactly the opposite. The term "fanboy" is what should be used to describe a lot of people there even if they aren't out seem that way themselves.

The phrase "ignorance is bless" comes to mind here and covers many of the people at Robotech.com. Not all of them but the majority.

[jenius]

Well Effect, I think you just summed up nicely exactly what I was trying to imply with the "but I guess that was to be expected line." Then again, if we're going to put any trust in any of the reviews we've seen from any site they should all be tempered accordingly. It'd also be amazing to see how true your words would ring of a new Macross project on this site. We're all guilty of our occasional moments of fanboyism... especially if we're hanging out on forum boards.

The fun thing so far about RT.com reviews is how contradictory they are. Example:

"Story was so-so but the animation rocked!"

"Animation rocked but the story was so-so."

The only thing everyone is unanimous on is the soundtrack.

[Mr March]

CG in anime is far too overhated. Sure there's been some less than stellar examples in recent years, but a lot of the new anime has managed to blend it in seamlessly with the traditional style animation. The Tachikomas and power suits in GITS 2nd Gig are a good example. I think it's particularly found its niche when directors started using it for environments, allowing them to use "real world" filming techniques like steady-cams, crane shots, snap zooms, etc. The fact is that CG is here to stay, and the considering the advantages it offers it's unlikely directors will discard it "just because."

This won't excuse SC from having sub-par, year 2000 style CG though. With HG's "deep pockets" you'd think they could have shelled out the cash to hire a decent studio.

426169[/snapback]

I totally agree with this. Series like Ghost in The Shell SAC (or even in stuff like Yukikaze, ignoring it's poor quality as a series IMO) make excellent use of CGI making it look cell shaded. It's like the ultimate dream of cell shaded animation; smooth, fluid movment and animation yet it looks like cell drawing. It's a very important step forward for CGI in animation and I would love to see more of it.

I also strongly support CGI use in shows like Cowboy Bebop and Macross Plus, that seamlessly blend CGI into the animated world. The animation benefits from CGI in numerous areas like improved backgrounds, perpective shots, and lighting enhancements. Also, as you mentioned, the use of many more simulated cinema camera styles works beautifully thanks to CGI use.

The CGI I don't care for is stuff like its use in Macross Zero, Blue Submarine No. 6, Inital D, Robotech Shadow-whatever, et cetera. It's CGI that pulls you out of the animated world and clashes with cell drawn characters. The juxtaposition is terrible to watch IMO and totally wrecks the suspension of disbelief.

[Vermillion21]

Despite all the hype, letdowns, delays, reviews, etc ... I am still going to give Shadow Chronicles a chance when it gets released. Though I am going in with lower expectations; which of course increases the chances of me finding it "acceptable".

I will agree that most fans of the RT.com site will love anything Robotech-related ... way too much.