Kawamori´s Role

[Aegis!]

Analyzing Kawamori´s recent projects , do you think he is more fit as a mecha designer ,director , or religious leader ?

After watching Arjuna , Macross Zero , Eureka Seven and Aquarion I think he´s more fit as a mecha designer , not that his directing job was in any way poor , but in terms of plot and endings I think a group effort would be more effective.

I wonder if a masterpiece such as Macross Plus could be pulled off by the froating head once again , not because he´s no capable of doing so, rather because of his new way of doing anime.

Of course he should lead any future project but the director seat should be shared with someone else IMO.

[eugimon]

I agree, mecha designer = awesome.. religious leader using anime as his sermons, not so much.

if I want crack pot religious sermons, I can get my fill from my dad.

[Roy Focker]

You forgot creator as well.

[ChrisG]

I think Kawamori is still top notch as a mechanical designer. I have no complaints about how he directs. Macross Zero had some great mecha battles, and Kawamori also did fine co-directing Plus and DYRL. My beef with Kawamori is his storytelling. I don't care if the man has had spiritual epiphanies - more power to him. But I don't want to watch an anime that serves a mouthpiece for him to go on at length about how fragical the Earth is and whatever else he wants to talk about. Even if he was hellbent on doing it once, that's fine, but it's a theme that keeps crawling into more and more of his projects. Personally, I would like to see Noboru Ishiguro come back and direct a new Macross project, be it a movie, OVA or TV show. Let Kawamori be a 'consultant', but mainly keep him to mecha designs only like in Eureka Seven.

[Aegis!]

I think Kawamori is still top notch as a mechanical designer. I have no complaints about how he directs. Macross Zero had some great mecha battles, and Kawamori also did fine co-directing Plus and DYRL. My beef with Kawamori is his storytelling. I don't care if the man has had spiritual epiphanies - more power to him. But I don't want to watch an anime that serves a mouthpiece for him to go on at length about how fragical the Earth is and whatever else he wants to talk about. Even if he was hellbent on doing it once, that's fine, but it's a theme that keeps crawling into more and more of his projects. Personally, I would like to see Noboru Ishiguro come back and direct a new Macross project, be it a movie, OVA or TV show. Let Kawamori be a 'consultant', but mainly keep him to mecha designs only like in Eureka Seven.

398678[/snapback]

That´s exactly my personal POV.

The problem with Kawamori directing by himself is that he tends to use his proyects as a way of propaganda for his beliefs , nothing bad with it unless it gets in the way of the story-telling.

And in the case of Macross there´s a formula or a kind of balance that has to be followed in order for a series to be pure Macross sweetness. You cannot ignore the mecha-action/drama/music triangle , nor impose some other element that is not common to the franchise.

Of course you can take the plot somewhere unexplored as long as it remains believable within the universe depicted in franchise.

Ya cannot make a comedy orientated macross series or use britney spears as the BGM and expect it to be considered as macross; you can put comedy elements here and there , or use a variety of music genres in the show , but when you force a show to go somewhere uncommon to the the other series in the franchise for the sole intention of making a point it derives into something different altogether.

I´m talking anime in general. From mecha designs to music , to production personnel, to animation style , etc...not just the plot.

The moment you set the rules for a series you have to keep them as a common ground for every new one

Innovation can only go so far .

Edited May 11, 2006 by Aegis!

[Raptor]

Kawamori + S. Watanabe = WIN

[Zinjo]

Kawamori is an innovator to be sure!

I think his strengths are in the fields of:

1. Creator: Let's face it he can come up with some really interesting worlds.

2. Mecha Designer: VF-1 = 'Nuff said

3. Director: He has a very good feel for directing.

Areas he would do well to collaborate on or leave to others:

= Stories and writing

He is a very talented man, but I think that a little bit of a metaphysical element to a story isn't bad, as it adds a bit of legendary / mystical feel (worked for Star Wars!).

However, going to the extent of space monsters and messianic singers that he did with Macross 7 was too far IMHO.

The moment you set the rules for a series you have to keep them as a common ground for every new one

Innovation can only go so far .

398717[/snapback]

The thing is that SK created the premise and the universe, but didn't write the initial show. Therefore he wasn't involved in the initial "setting of the rules" in terms of the story of SDF Macross. So he tried to "change the rules" with Mac 7.

Which is why the series is and may always be greeted with mixed opinions from the fan community.

Most agree Macross Plus it the best Kawamori has done, after that opinions vary, often greatly.

Edited May 12, 2006 by Zinjo

[JB0]

And in the case of Macross there´s a formula or a kind of balance that has to be followed in order for a series to be pure Macross sweetness. You cannot ignore the mecha-action/drama/music triangle , nor impose some other element that is not common to the franchise.

From what I've seen each entry in the series has gone in a new direction.

I haven't seen 2 Macrosses that fit into the same formula.

The thing is that SK created the premise and the universe, but didn't write the initial show.  Therefore he wasn't involved in the initial "setting of the rules" in terms of the story of SDF Macross.  So he tried to "change the rules" with Mac 7.

Which is why the series is and may always be greeted with mixed opinions from the fan community.

He actually WAS involved in the writing of the TV series. He didn't write the entire thing, but he didn't just draw some mech, and tell someone to make a story about transforming jetplanes and giant aliens either.

Strictly by credits, he was as involved in Macross 7 as he was in the original series. Creator, supervisor, mecha design, script for an episode(actually the mini-movie for Mac7), and storyboarding(actually only for 1 ep in Mac7 as opposed to an entire series for SDF).

But there's implications he was involved in the scripting of large portions of the original show, and that Macross 7 was something he agreed to just to generate funding for Plus.

'Sides, Plus was being developed alongside Macross 7, so he couldn't have the same level of involvement in 7 as with the original series, just due to time constraints.

If you want to argue his vision, let's take stuff where he WAS clearly integral to the writing.

He penned the script for DYRL, and he was script supervisor for Vision of Escaflowne.

Most agree Macross Plus it the best Kawamori has done, after that opinions vary, often greatly.

Thanks.

Plus blows a hole in any "formula" arguments, because it was almost NOTHING like the original series, and is a favored installment.

Edited May 12, 2006 by JB0

[Aegis!]

He is a very talented man, but I think that a little bit of a metaphysical element to a story isn't bad, as it adds a bit of legendary / mystical feel (worked for Star Wars!).

However, going to the extent of space monsters and messianic singers that he did with Macross 7 was too far IMHO.

I don´t criticize him for including metaphysical elements into Macross , but actually for including elements of his own life , like his political ideals , yeah it´s true , you can´t create something without it being affected by your personality or your life, and he has the right to include some innovative elements if they complement the frnchise ( as metaphysical elements do IMO ) but deliberately forcing those elements into a show originaly not inteded to include them as their MAIN attribute ( in terms of plot , music , production , etc..) is a bit egoistic towards his ( an whod the whole team ) creation considering macross main attribute is an equal proportion of action drama and music elements.

From what I've seen each entry in the series has gone in a new direction.

I haven't seen 2 Macrosses that fit into the same formula.

Yes , each series is unique in what they bring to the macross universe but none of them escape the basic formula if you actually pay attention; Last time I checked every macross series to date follows the same principles:

M0

SDF Macross

DYRL >>> All share the mecha/drama/music basic foundation

Flashback

M+

M7

Some are plot driven , others focus on character develpment more than the other , others approach from the musical side of things but every one of them has the same structure. That extra spice that distinguishes them from one another is what makes each one innovative within macross.

When you replace that foundation with a new one you no longer have a common ground to compare with , and is no longer innovative , is just a completely different thing.

Macross Plus was innovative because it introduced a new perspective with new elements but the basic formula was still there all along, and it was a superb series because each element in the forumula was done perfectly ( awesome mechas , dramatic character development , fantastic music orchestration).

My point is , innovation can be achieved without ignoring the basic principles. But as time goes by I tend to think Kawamori is more concentrated in making a personal statement with each new project he gets rather than directing them into their natural development.

[Graham]

If a new Macross TV series, OVA or movie is ever made, I'd like to see Kawamori responsible for the mecha designs of course, but not for the story, unless he's willing to drop all mystical and tree-hugging elements.

And it would be great to have Mikimoto back on character design duties as well.

Graham

[Aegis!]

If a new Macross TV series, OVA or movie is ever made, I'd like to see Kawamori responsible for the mecha designs of course, but not for the story, unless he's willing to drop all mystical and tree-hugging elements.

And it would be great to have Mikimoto back on character design duties as well.

Graham

398802[/snapback]

I second that.

And add Yoko Kanno in that list too as well as Tomoki Kyoda as the director ( he directed Eureka 7).

Imagine that , Yoko Kanno music , Mikimoto artwork , Kawamori designs and Kyoda

s directing skills. It makes me drool just thinking about it

And Bandai´s advertising...yeah , i wish

[Graham]

+1 for Yoko Kanno.

Graham

[JB0]

I want to see one where Kawamori does absolutely everything.

[Aegis!]

I want to see one where Kawamori does absolutely everything.

398817[/snapback]

You mean like a Live action recreation of DYRL with him doing everyone , included Minmay ? dude you´re sick

[Graham]

OK, when you talk about Kawamori 'doing' people, you mean doing as in acting their roles, or doing as in the 'Debby Does Dallas' meaning?

Graham

[Zinjo]

He actually WAS involved in the writing of the TV series. He didn't write the entire thing, but he didn't just draw some mech, and tell someone to make a story about transforming jetplanes and giant aliens either.

To the extent of a story board artist. In every interview I see from him he has never claimed to have written SDF Macross or been a part of that team. His biggest influence was with the Valk action sequences as he has said it was easier to for him to direct those sequences than explain how best to do it to someone else. He was after all a "new kid" and likely didn't carry a lot of weight on the team.

Strictly by credits, he was as involved in Macross 7 as he was in the original series. Creator, supervisor, mecha design, script for an episode(actually the mini-movie for Mac7), and storyboarding(actually only for 1 ep in Mac7 as opposed to an entire series for SDF).

That would explain a LOT when one compares what he's done on Mac Plus and Mac Zero compared to what was done in Mac 7.

But there's implications he was involved in the scripting of large portions of the original show, and that Macross 7 was something he agreed to just to generate funding for Plus.

And yet he as never claimed to have written any part of SDF Macross.... Implications or no.

If you want to argue his vision, let's take stuff where he WAS clearly integral to the writing.

He penned the script for DYRL, and he was script supervisor for Vision of Escaflowne.

The truth is, that many really don't know what his "vision" clearly is, as he has accepted Mac 7 as part of the franchise canon, which leaves many detractors of the series confused.

IMO, Mac II with all it's flaws seems closer to the vision of the original and the directly involved Kawamori productions than Mac 7 was. In that it was an attempt at serious SF with a message.

Essentially if his next directly involved Macross project continues in the vein of Mac Plus and Mac Zero, I suspect most fans will finally become comfortable that Mac 7 was not "his" vision of the franchise after all.

Edited May 12, 2006 by Zinjo

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Thanks.

Plus blows a hole in any "formula" arguments, because it was almost NOTHING like the original series, and is a favored installment.

Plus had some great mecha fights. I hate to say it but for mecha shows I watch them for mecha more than story. (that doesn't mean I can[t appreciate a good story when one is in it)

I think one of the reasons I like full metal panic is how the characters can be serious and relaxed so there is a good balance of action, a bit of comedy (type of aimed at the specific audience that watches this kinda of show) and the story is decent enough to want to know more about the mystery of the technology. Some of the mecha fights are really well done and there is a sense of the character genuinely able to overcome a challenge due to his knowledge and skill rather than having super powers. (the reason I like batman as a hero than superman who is a super hero who can do anything)

To take an example in a lot of fighting anime, or a hong kong action flick, the focus for watching them is the thing the people are doing in them (the stunts, the clever trash talking and building up to an event, the danger of them not coming out alive etc) more than the meaning behind why they are doing them. When hikaru tells minmay he may not come back and this might be his last mission, there is a grave sense of doom.

The seriousness of the mecha half of the show was taken right out of macross 7 and you felt like the tone changed completely when they brought in this super duper basara character who could do no wrong. I don't like shows where there is very little sense of danger and that success isn't determined much by a characters skills but by thier uber powers. (rahxephon for example didn't feel like a robot show due to the focus on the characters)

I think ever since evangelion there is this pressure to bring in lots of religious symbolism into a genre that doesn't necessarily need it. And from then mecha shows got married to magic (floating rocks, energy barriers the protect you, pilots tapping into a "force"-like ability etc) and it was ok to focus just on this aspect of the show.

But I think there are two types of fan:

1. side story fans (macross zero and plus had a focus on the mecha as much as the "music solves everything angle" that is common to macross. This is the equivalent to those who liked gundam 8th ms team for its attention to details and how it took focus away from newtype super aces winning wars single handedly cuz "they are special")

2. character fans (ie think of the difference between full metal panic! Fumofu vs FMP. The comedy and lighter tone in the former is why you would watch it more than action)

If they can make a series that gets the best of both worlds (light comedic tone + serious action sequences) then I will like it. I love the side stories but for me SDF:Macross gave us a reason to reflect on humans and thier behaviour. There were bad guys, (kamjin) misguided people (misa's dad), heroes (max), and people in between (the people on board the ship) and it felt like there was a bit of everything. Sad moments were when kakizaki died (reminding us this is a war and consequences for screwing up) but light hearted moments as well. (Mostly from Roy who was laid back and kind of balanced the show)

A good mecha show is one that everyone will watch and not just mecha fans. What I would suggest is that they try to make a tv series or a 13 part ova that is much more like what the original tv series was (a big epic struggle to win against seemingly impossible odds) more than seperate bits and pieces that only focus on 1 thing within that world.

The original tv series may not have had the beautiful action sequences of plus (the opening scene in the ova with the rogue zentradi is one of my faves) but it had all the ingredients of a good show. You didn't really have to be a mecha anime fan to watch it. The mecha action and war were just the backdrop for the love triangle between the three main characters. You can still have your "pop music and love will save us all" message (I liked the music in macross II) but try to bring back the seriousness that we didn't get in 7 but which we got in the original.

Of course he should lead any future project but the director seat should be shared with someone else IMO.

Only if it means we go back to macross' roots which was more like SDF:M. It covered a lot of ground with only 36 eps, as well as gave us many characters with more details and depth on on each one rather than focusing on only 3 people like DYRL. DYRL simplified everything and didn't even offer explanation to why they were in the ship, and its transformation systems, and why they use giant robots. As much as I liked the aged versions of hikaru and minmay I also like the TV series versions for slowly developing the characters over time so we get time to know them. (and not just focus on the main ones like in macross 7)

Edited May 12, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[ChrisG]

To the extent of a story board artist.  In every interview I see from him he has never claimed to have written SDF Macross or been a part of that team.

According to Macross Compendium, Kawamori wrote the last episode of SDF Macross under the pen name Eiji Kurokawa.

http://macross.anime.net//production/creat...hoji/index.html

[JB0]

Thanks.

Plus blows a hole in any "formula" arguments, because it was almost NOTHING like the original series, and is a favored installment.

Plus had some great mecha fights. I hate to say it but for mecha shows I watch them for mecha more than story. (that doesn't mean I can[t appreciate a good story when one is in it)

They were all one-on-one, though. Except for the QRau fight in the beginning of the OVA.

More = better.

The seriousness of the mecha half of the show was taken right out of macross 7 and you felt like the tone changed completely when they brought in this super duper basara character who could do no wrong. I don't like shows where there is very little sense of danger and that success isn't determined much by a characters skills but by thier uber powers. (rahxephon for example didn't feel like a robot show due to the focus on the characters)

That was a major gripe I had with Mac7. I wanted to see some growth in Basara. Or at least some explanation of how he got where he was. People aren't BORN that idealistic and passionate.

...

And when he died, he should've stayed dead.

A good mecha show is one that everyone will watch and not just mecha fans. What I would suggest is that they try to make a tv series or a 13 part ova that is much more like what the original tv series was (a big epic struggle to win against seemingly impossible odds) more than seperate bits and pieces that only focus on 1 thing within that world.

That WOULD be awesome. But what would you do it with?

Another colony fleet running into another well-equipped space force is probably the best chance.

The original tv series may not have had the beautiful action sequences of plus (the opening scene in the ova with the rogue zentradi is one of my faves) but it had all the ingredients of a good show. You didn't really have to be a mecha anime fan to watch it. The mecha action and war were just the backdrop for the love triangle between the three main characters. You can still have your "pop music and love will save us all" message (I liked the music in macross II) but try to bring back the seriousness that we didn't get in 7 but which we got in the original.

The original WAS great. It had a wide spread of characters and subplots(even if many weren't explored as much as they could've been).

But I've never really gotten where the "music fixes everything" theme comes from.

That was one aspect of many things.

The zentradi defected because of our culture as a whole, not JUST Minmay. And the infamous psych warfare music videos were used to distract and confuse zentradi, not defeat them(they had off switches on their comm hear if that was our whole strategy). We had guns and missiles for the actual defeating.

In later shows music was RELEVANT, but only 7 and 2 elevated it to pirmary weapon status.

[Zinjo]

To the extent of a story board artist.  In every interview I see from him he has never claimed to have written SDF Macross or been a part of that team.

According to Macross Compendium, Kawamori wrote the last episode of SDF Macross under the pen name Eiji Kurokawa.

http://macross.anime.net//production/creat...hoji/index.html

399009[/snapback]

That's all fine and good, however, HE himself, has never claimed to have written SDF Macross in interviews.

Why should he? Writing the final episode is an accomplishment, however it appears that he had the best idea as to how to end the series and the powers that be told him to go ahead and write it.

Edited May 14, 2006 by Zinjo

[TheLoneWolf]

Plus blows a hole in any "formula" arguments, because it was almost NOTHING like the original series, and is a favored installment.

Kawamori has gone on the record stating that Plus originally wasn't supposed to be part of the Macross universe. He approached Big West about doing an OAV involving rival mecha pilots, Big West thought it was a great idea but also thought it would sell better if it had the Macross name attached to it.

I have to agree with Zinjo that most people tend to think Kawamori was more involved with the original SDF Macross than we give him credit for. From all that I've read, Kawamori's greatest involvement was with the "Outside Story" (episodes 28 - 36) where he began to direct, write, and script. The first 27 episodes of Macross was a Studio Nue collaboration. Several of our most beloved plot points (enemy ace falls in love a human pilot, girl ends the war by singing, said girl works in a Chinese restaurant and falls for the clueless hero, etc) were already set in stone by Studio Nue before Kawamori even had a chance to finish the VF-1. With the VF-1 being such an iconic design, it's easy for us to pin the role of series creator to the VF-1's creator.

However, no one doubts Kawamori's involvement in DYRL. DYRL was THE Kawamori project of the 80's. But, with DYRL being a remake of the TV series, how original can it truly be? Yes, the mecha designs were improved, animation is still amazing by today's standards, there's mouth-watering action scenes, and a timeless score. But how about the story? I'd say 80% is borrowed from Studio Nue's plot with 20% of new material from Kawamori (the Protoculture city, Zentrans vs Meltrans). Storyline-wise, I can't say DYRL is original.

So let's see how Kawamori's batting average with Macross goes:

- SDF Macross (eps 1 - 27, Kamamori mostly relegated to mecha designs) - Japan and USA love it.

- SDF Macross (eps 28 - 36, greater involvement with Kawamori) - Lukewarm response in Japan and USA.

- Macross DYRL - Japan and USA love it. Mostly a remake of eps 1 - 27.

- Macross Plus - Lukewarm response in Japan, USA loves it. Wasn't originally envisioned as a Macross series.

- Macross 7 - Japan loves it, USA hates it.

- Macross 7 Dynamite - Japan loves it, USA hates it.

- Macross Zero - Lukewarm response in Japan and USA (using DVD sales figures as a basis for Japan).

As far as Kawamori's original series go (Plus, 7, Zero), he's probably doing .500. Not bad, not terrible either. If Studio Nue wants to keep Kawamori around for future Macross projects, I can't blame them. But I wouldn't mind someone fresh taking over either.

[crasis]

- Macross 7 - Japan loves it, USA hates it.

- Macross 7 Dynamite - Japan loves it, USA hates it.

- Macross Zero - Lukewarm response in Japan and USA (using DVD sales figures as a basis for Japan).

Uhh... I wouldn't say any of this is accurate, considering Macross 7 and Zero have NEVER BEEN RELEASED in the US. How could you judge how well they are "loved" or "hated" when they've never even hit these shores? Where are your facts coming from? The average US anime fan hasn't seen these shows, and isn't necessarily all about searching out fansubs and/or bootlegs. Until official R1 releases of these come to light (:sigh:), I'm not sure I buy into any of this thinking.

[Zinjo]

- Macross 7 - Japan loves it, USA hates it.

- Macross 7 Dynamite - Japan loves it, USA hates it.

- Macross Zero - Lukewarm response in Japan and USA (using DVD sales figures as a basis for Japan).

Uhh... I wouldn't say any of this is accurate, considering Macross 7 and Zero have NEVER BEEN RELEASED in the US. How could you judge how well they are "loved" or "hated" when they've never even hit these shores? Where are your facts coming from? The average US anime fan hasn't seen these shows, and isn't necessarily all about searching out fansubs and/or bootlegs. Until official R1 releases of these come to light (:sigh:), I'm not sure I buy into any of this thinking.

399851[/snapback]

Well most US distributors base their licensing acquisitions on fan interest. They gauge that interest in different ways, some go so far as to see how popular a fansub is on torrent sites or how often it is subbed.

Since Mac 7 really isn't a series that comes up often in their listings, I suspect there won't be an R1 release of the series any time soon.

Macross Zero has a better chance in that respect, but when that will come over will be determined by how much Big West wants for the licensing fee. Since Anime distribution in North America is a niche market, the licensing fee has to be reasonable or the demand immense to justify that cost.

I've already sent an e-mail to Anchor Bay (the Parent company of Manga Video) and encourage other fans to do the same to make them aware of the interest in seeing the Macross Zero title licensed for distribution in Region 1.

[JB0]

Well most US distributors base their licensing acquisitions on fan interest.  They gauge that interest in different ways, some go so far as to see how popular a fansub is on torrent sites or how often it is subbed.

Since Mac 7 really isn't a series that comes up often in their listings, I suspect there won't be an R1 release of the series any time soon. 

I gather there's some serious licensing issues, even ignoring the traditional Harmony Gold hissyfit.

Tokyopop DID try to license the Trash manga. Big West yanked hte license after HG issued a license, and all traces of the "news" are now erased from both HG's and TokyoPop's web sites.

Macross Zero has a better chance in that respect, but when that will come over will be determined by how much Big West wants for the licensing fee.  Since Anime distribution in North America is a niche market, the licensing fee has to be reasonable or the demand immense to justify that cost.

And Harmony Gold has to roll over and admit defeat.

Remember, that's the major obstacle to any US Macross endeavor.

HG demands money. Big West demands their licensees not pay HG money.

Licensees are stuck in the middle. They can release without an HG stamp and get sued by HG(which will decimate their potential profits, even if they assume victory), or they can skip Macross and go for something that DOESN'T drop them into the middle of a licensing cold war.

[Zinjo]

Remember, that's the major obstacle to any US Macross endeavor.

HG demands money. Big West demands their licensees not pay HG money.

Licensees are stuck in the middle. They can release without an HG stamp and get sued by HG(which will decimate their potential profits, even if they assume victory), or they can skip Macross and go for something that DOESN'T drop them into the middle of a licensing cold war.

399998[/snapback]

That's why Anchor Bay is the best choice.

They acquired and released Macross Plus as well as Macross II, dispite any HG sabre rattling. If anyone could challenge and win such a show down it would be them. Especially now that HG appears to be cash strapped with all the money they've sunk into their new RT show and AB has all the profits from it's home video sales.

ADV is not longert a viable choice as they've gotten into bed with HG just to be able to dub SDF Macross. Not to mention ADV doesn't have as deep pockets as Anchor Bay would.

Hence, why I suggest all Macross fans go knocking on AB's door about future Macross R1 releases. The only other choice is Bandai North America.

[JB0]

Mac+ and Mac2 were licensed when HG wasn't throwing hsisyfits.

The point isn't that they can win. It's that they don't want ro fight in the first place.

And Bandai rolled over before. VFX2.

[Final Vegeta]

About Kawamori's involvement in SDF Macross... I think there is a misunderstanding. Reading from animenewsnetwork.com, it appears that the creator or director of an anime series doesn't usually have his name credited as scriptwriter, screenplayer, series story editor or the like. There are alwasy other persons who help in delivering each episode. Macross Zero and Aquarion for example share a scriptwriter with Gundam SEED Destiny.

I don't remember where, but I heard that Kawamori changed the script of Macross when he saw a Mikimoto drawing of a girl with a Chinese dress. Before that Macross was more based on space colonies, but after that the Chinese girl was included. Taking this as true, it would seem that the active role of Kawamori in Macross was bigger than what many would think.

FV

[Wes]

Macross?! I want to see Kawamori do the next Nadesico series!

[Zinjo]

About Kawamori's involvement in SDF Macross... I think there is a misunderstanding. Reading from animenewsnetwork.com, it appears that the creator or director of an anime series doesn't usually have his name credited as scriptwriter, screenplayer, series story editor or the like. There are alwasy other persons who help in delivering each episode. Macross Zero and Aquarion for example share a scriptwriter with Gundam SEED Destiny.

I don't remember where, but I heard that Kawamori changed the script of Macross when he saw a Mikimoto drawing of a girl with a Chinese dress. Before that Macross was more based on space colonies, but after that the Chinese girl was included. Taking this as true, it would seem that the active role of Kawamori in Macross was bigger than what many would think.

FV

400087[/snapback]

With all respect, most Kawamori fans want to believe that.

Let's keep in mind he was "just starting out" when SDF Macross came out (I'll have to check but I believe he was still in University at the time or a recent graduate.) and it is highly doubtful any junior person, no matter how talented, would be given much credence during a production.

Maybe by the end of the series he'd earned enough dues to take on a larger role, but not at the beginning.

The "wunderkind" getting the keys to the studio is mainly a North American invention, something nearly unheard of in Japan. There, they believe in mentorships and aprenticeships in most industries including animation.

Did SK participate in the show's development? I'm sure he did, along with all the other staff during pre-production.

It is extremely doubtful that the Director and story writers sat at his feet listening in great anticipation to the pearls of wisdom he would drop about the universe...

Edited May 17, 2006 by Zinjo

[Egan Loo]

My beef with Kawamori is his storytelling. I don't care if the man has had spiritual epiphanies - more power to him. But I don't want to watch an anime that serves a mouthpiece for him to go on at length about how fragical the Earth is and whatever else he wants to talk about. Even if he was hellbent on doing it once, that's fine, but it's a theme that keeps crawling into more and more of his projects. Personally, I would like to see Noboru Ishiguro come back and direct a new Macross project, be it a movie, OVA or TV show.

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If Noboru Ishiguro were to return to Macross, it wouldn't be surprising to see environmental, spiritual, or unconventional themes with him also. The last three new anime Ishiguro supervised or directed (Totoi, Kimera, Toukyou Jusshouden) were about a boy saving seals from extinction, a yaoi-manga-based erotic alien-human horror story for female viewers, and mankind's salvation from demons from an alternate realm, respectively.

[Egan Loo]

And in the case of Macross there´s a formula or a kind of balance that has to be followed in order for a series to be pure Macross sweetness. You cannot ignore the mecha-action/drama/music triangle , nor impose some other element that is not common to the franchise.

All the Macross anime so far include variable fighters, music, and love triangles, so that hasn't changed. Where the creators and fans in Japan beg to differ (and for the creators, have stated on record) is that they want each new production to introduce new elements to make each project different.

The moment you set the rules for a series you have to keep them as a common ground for every new one

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The original creators did set some rules and maintained them--all Macross anime have transforming robots, music, and love triangles, and all Macross anime should otherwise be different from each other. To the creators and fans in Japan, Macross Plus is as different from the first Macross series as Macross 7 is, and that's the way they were intended. (The same goes for Macross Zero.)

[Egan Loo]

The thing is that SK created the premise and the universe, but didn't write the initial show.  Therefore he wasn't involved in the initial "setting of the rules" in terms of the story of SDF Macross.  So he tried to "change the rules" with Mac 7.

Actually, he was involved in and literally credited with the "setting of the rules" in terms of the story of the first Macross series. One of his credits for the first Macross is 設定監修, literally "setting supervisor."

Most agree Macross Plus it the best Kawamori has done, after that opinions vary, often greatly.

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Big West ran a poll for favorite Macross series, and Macross Plus was not at the top. It was higher than Macross II, but still the middle of the pack.

[Egan Loo]

I want to see one where Kawamori does absolutely everything.

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Heh, the closest to that would be the first Macross series. That is the series where he wore the most hats in the most production roles.

[Egan Loo]

To the extent of a story board artist. 

To the extent of creator, production supervisor, storyboard artist, and episode scriptwriter, in addition to mechanical designer.

In every interview I see from him he has never claimed to have written SDF Macross or been a part of that team.

Kawamori doesn't have to "claim"--he's always been credited with such.

His biggest influence was with the Valk action sequences as he has said it was easier to for him to direct those sequences than explain how best to do it to someone else.

His biggest influence was creating the core idea for the series in the first place.

  He was after all a "new kid" and likely didn't carry a lot of weight on the team.

He didn't in Studio Nue initially, but he had been with Studio Nue for five full years by the time Macross aired. More importantly, it was his core idea that became Macross, so that is why he carried considerable weight on that particular project, while the other Studio Nue creators carried more weight on their pet projects (Crusher Joe, Dirty Pair, and many others).

That would explain a LOT when one compares what he's done on Mac Plus and Mac Zero compared to what was done in Mac 7.

You might have misunderstood JBO's point--he was actually involved in slightly more roles in the first Macross than Macross 7, and consequently, more roles than on Macross Plus and Macross Zero.

And yet he as never claimed to have written any part of SDF Macross....  Implications or no.

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Again, he doesn't have to claim to--he's already credited for it.

[Egan Loo]

I think ever since evangelion there is this pressure to bring in lots of religious symbolism into a genre that doesn't necessarily need it. And from then mecha shows got married to magic (floating rocks, energy barriers the protect you, pilots tapping into a "force"-like ability etc) and it was ok to focus just on this aspect of the show.

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Macross 7 (and Escaflowne, if you count the first release) both predated Evangelion.