Would Yamato Be Just As Successful Without Us?

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

But the Qrau is such a kick ass machine in the tv series and movie. The way milia strafe dodges those shots in the movie and zips around in the tv series with godlike speed may have had something to do with it. It's the ultimate villian to the good guy's hero. And don't forget some of the classic scenes:

-micromissiles swarm of death (it is a flashy move to pull off)

-pin point barrier punch in the face (with a wrist-laser-to-face combo) and hull of the ship

-only aces use these so they are like 'rare'

-max fights milia in it so its appearance in the movie make it seem like a superhero mech becaue of the way it moves around so quickly and gracefully.

I'm sure if the regult or glaug were introduced late in the tv series as a kick ass high performance mecha this would have been popular. But its gangly legs make it look like it is much more suitable as a CF fighting on the ground.

Edited May 3, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Guest Bromgrev]

So, yes, they listen to consumers. Japanese consumers. Think of the current releases, Macross, Votoms, Megazone 23. All niche markets (80's shows) targeted to niche consumers: they sell few units of an expensive toy with a high profit margin to high income consumers. Again: Japanese fans that were 8-10 years old back in the mid 80's.

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And the good news is that the Japanese toy consumer is getting older!

[Twoducks]

Do Japanese Macross forums speak only of the necessity for more VF-1 variants or do they also want enemies and destroids and different valk designs as much as non Japanese MW users do? Can any member of MW from Japan tell us if Yamato listens to their bitching?

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Two or three years ago Yamato made a poll (targeted to the Japanese market) where they asked which toy was the most wanted by the fans. The Q-Rau was one of the options.

So, yes, they listen to consumers. Japanese consumers. Think of the current releases, Macross, Votoms, Megazone 23. All niche markets (80's shows) targeted to niche consumers: they sell few units of an expensive toy with a high profit margin to high income consumers. Again: Japanese fans that were 8-10 years old back in the mid 80's.

When you start a business, and you think about a possible product to sell, there's two marketing cases you take into consideration. You produce what people are currently demanding or you explore a niche market. Case one, you produce what people like and ask for. Case two (Yamato), you produce toys from shows that were broadcast 20 years ago cause you think there's gonna be demand for that product.

When the founder/ers of Yamato started their business, did they sit back and think: gee, does the world remember shows like Macross, Votoms or Megazone 23?

When Yamato's CEO explored the possibility of a 1/60 MKII Monster, did he/she think: no, lets scrap that insane idea cause the overseas market is not going to pay the high shipping cost and we are going to eat dead stock.

Yamato knows there's an overseas market, BUT they only pay attention to the Japanese consumer. Back in the old days they were kind enough to speak to and share info with a BRITISH guy living in HONG KONG (god save the king, insert Graham here)

Graham does not represent the US market nor the rest of the world.

Disclaimer: this post wasn't intended to reply to your post Twoducks, I just used your question to make some stupid brainstorming

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Wait a sec. Does anyone know the stipulations before Yamato started the poll? I can't believe that the Japanese fans choose a Q-Rau over an SDF-1, VF-4, or another YF-19.

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Forgot to mention the Q-Rau thing. Here we have a piece of fan service that hasn't sparked a milking machine for Yamato. Those things are going very cheap on some websites so you can't label that as a hit (was it even reissued in Japan?).

I wouldn't be surprised that Yamato doesn't bother with more fan demanded items and follows sure bets like the hero mechas of others famous series (Garland) and little variations on good selling designs (like the VF-1 and the Scopedog).

I think that we won't se any fan favourite items for Macross that aren't variations of the VF-1 and VF-0 for a long time (hope I'm wrong).

[kensei]

Don't forget the 1/100 VB-6.

[Mowe]

Q-Rau still hover around the $60 mark and still been picked up by bidders. Q-Rau might be relatively cheaper to buy compare to a VF-1, but I think it is also a lot more cheaper to make?? May be it is more profitable than we think.

Forgot to mention the Q-Rau thing. Here we have a piece of fan service that hasn't sparked a milking machine for Yamato. Those things are going very cheap on some websites so you can't label that as a hit (was it even reissued in Japan?).

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[eugimon]

all this second guessing Yamato. what's the point really?

[Twoducks]

all this second guessing Yamato. what's the point really?

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That's why I would like to know what does the Japanese market want from Yamato and if they are getting it, to have something more to go by than second guesses.

Know anything regarding this?

[bigkid24]

actually, a lot of times... the cables, higher profit and higher margin once you factor in things like shipping, damage claims and shelving space. And a lot of times, computers are sold real close to cost. why do you think compusa and best buy and everywhere else tries real hard to get you to buy their insurance?

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This is a stupid side discussion but you're getting away from your argument. We're talking about the manufacturer and not the retailer. We're discussing Yamato's success (Dell, Apple) not the success of say a retailer like Valkyrie-Exchange (Best Buy). So what's the point of bringing up a retailer's sales tactic? The manufacturer is making their money regardless of what the retailer sells it for.

Anyway, computers are probably an exception to this but a higher end item usually has a bigger profit margin than low cost one. I can get a bigger discount on a 42" plasma TV than 13" TV.

What were we talking about again?

[buglips]

Does the Qrau actually scale to 1/60? I've been looking at getting one (though I might repaint it to TV version), but from the pics I've seen it doesn't look big enough to actually be in scale.

I just figured that it was in the "close enough" range to go with the VF's, but not actually to scale.

But I haven't seen a direct comparison or measurements either, so I don't actually know how big it really is.

Probably doesn't matter since it's big enough for what I want, I was just curious.

[eugimon]

actually, a lot of times... the cables, higher profit and higher margin once you factor in things like shipping, damage claims and shelving space. And a lot of times, computers are sold real close to cost. why do you think compusa and best buy and everywhere else tries real hard to get you to buy their insurance?

396068[/snapback]

This is a stupid side discussion but you're getting away from your argument. We're talking about the manufacturer and not the retailer. We're discussing Yamato's success (Dell, Apple) not the success of say a retailer like Valkyrie-Exchange (Best Buy). So what's the point of bringing up a retailer's sales tactic? The manufacturer is making their money regardless of what the retailer sells it for.

Anyway, computers are probably an exception to this but a higher end item usually has a bigger profit margin than low cost one. I can get a bigger discount on a 42" plasma TV than 13" TV.

What were we talking about again?

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not really, if you actually read what that "side discussion" was about, it had to do discussing where yamato makes the bulk of their money. Most companies produce high end items as a loss leader in order to establish a name or in order to sell smaller, easier to produce, higher profit items.

In the case of computers, most computers are sold at or near cost, and the profits are made up on the sale of accessories, laptop bags, cables, printer cartridges and the like. Just like most video game consoles are sold at a loss by the manufacturer and they make up the money selling games.

Yamato produces very few big ticket items and many of what they do produce are repaints or minor variations on an existing toy/sculpt. The vast majority of toys they sell are figurines are much simpler "action toys."

The comparison holds up fairly well.

[UN Spacy]

While we're on the subject of the Q-Rau HLJ.com has a pretty sweet deal on the CM Miria figures.

http://www.hlj.com/product/YMT00034

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I always thought the Qrau was a little pricey but has a great sculpt. Since it is a non-transforming mecha maybe people just feel that after seeing the 1/48 vf1 they were spoilt by its complexty and could not justify paying high amount for it?

Essentially it is really pretty simple design compared to the VF, so maybe it took much less effort to make? (it's a giants mecha with lots of big pieces as opposed to a normal human one with fine details)

I hope that the poor sales don't discourage yamato from making more chunky giant powered armor mecha because I would like to see a regult with openable cockpit or a maybe even a glaug. Just makes sure to put the same effort into the 1/60 as they have with the 1/60 vf0 and 1/48 vf1. (tight limbs, ratcheted joints, gimmicks like the GBP micromissiles.)

While we're on the subject of the Q-Rau HLJ.com has a pretty sweet deal on the CM Miria figures.

http://www.hlj.com/product/YMT00034

Thanks for that. I was meaning to get these just as we were on the topic. I love you miria.

Edited May 3, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Twoducks]

Does the Qrau actually scale to 1/60?  I've been looking at getting one (though I might repaint it to TV version), but from the pics I've seen it doesn't look big enough to actually be in scale.

I just figured that it was in the "close enough" range to go with the VF's, but not actually to scale.

But I haven't seen a direct comparison or measurements either, so I don't actually know how big it really is.

Probably doesn't matter since it's big enough for what I want, I was just curious.

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Well according to mahq the movie version is approximately 17.1 meters, some 56.1 feet (don’t know if that includes the antenna). At 1/60 the thing should be 28,5 cm, which is what my Q-Rau is approximately (if you count the antenna it's almost 31 cm tall, some 12.1 inches). So you can say it’s virtually 100% 1/60.

Edited May 3, 2006 by Twoducks

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

If anyone sees a price reduction on those expensive Bubble gum crisis figures let me know. I had put this low on my shopping list because of yamato's vf0. I think that is what they should have aimed for in the pilot figure for the qrau: massive amount of posability while retaining a nice anime accurate look. Even if they had to sell it seperately I would be happy to get it.

Yamato should release a glaug with openable cockpit.

And another company releases a 1/60 posable figure of kamjin with armor on and swapable heads.

[EXO]

not really, if you actually read what that "side discussion" was about, it had to do discussing where yamato makes the bulk of their money. Most companies produce high end items as  a loss leader in order to establish a name or in order to sell smaller, easier to produce, higher profit items.

In the case of computers, most computers are sold at or near cost, and the profits are made up on the sale of accessories, laptop bags, cables, printer cartridges and the like. Just like most video game consoles are sold at a loss by the manufacturer and they make up the money selling games.

Yamato produces very few big ticket items and many of what they do produce are repaints or minor variations on an existing toy/sculpt. The vast majority of toys they sell are figurines are much simpler "action toys."

The comparison holds up fairly well.

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You consider the 1/48 as a loss leader? If the 1/48 isn't Yamato's best selling product then tell me what is. I have a bunch of their other "smaller" products that I've picked up from the bargain bins. I'd say Yamato is far from the model that you're comparing them too.

[eugimon]

when I worked at a toy store, we sold through their smaller lines pretty quickly.

when I was in japan and korea, I could find plenty of older 1/48's sitting around but their smaller figures sold fairly quickly.

just because we import in a limited number of 1/48s that sell out quickly doesn't mean as a whole 1/48s do... it just means that the guys who import them do a good job of forecasting stock.

[UN Spacy]

I guess it's safe to say that Macross is Yamato's "cash cow"?

[EXO]

yah, but how many releases and rereleases did the 1/48s go thru? You can't tell me that the valks sitting in the stores discourages them from making more. These toys require little retooling and no resculpting whatsoever. That's far from making the same cables over and over. I've seen a couple of repaints of Appleseed and the other gashaphons and I'm pretty sure they make a pretty penny from those overpriced chuck of plastics. But I would still be hardpressed to call the 1/48s as loss leaders.

I guess it's safe to say that Macross is Yamato's "cash cow"?

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Safe for who to say... Us? People on the boards speculating on a foreign company's profit margins... I guess it would be safe. If I say it, I doubt Yamato ninjas will break in my house and slash off my neck...

... see, I said it... and I'm still safely here.

Edited May 3, 2006 by >EXO<

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

See here's my theory:

Japan is getting older.

More toys are being aimed at adults with more money.

Macross is an old series which adults can remember.

VF1 is so milkable due to so many variants of the vf1 as the mass produced mecha.

Therefore I can assume macross is a nice franchise for yamato because it is relatively easy to release all the characters' mecha from the series because they all look the same save for the head. I'm not complaining, because I am a fan of it and it is more realistic to have a standard mecha with variants over many different designs like in gundam. But you have to admit this would be a 'cash cow' compared to say a series where there is only like 1 unique mech for each new character and in order to do a masterpiece high grade toy for adult fans for each new character, it meant they had to work out how to make a new toy built from the ground up for each of the characters rather than use a standard and repaint it.

The same kinda thing happens with game engines. You make a set of tools, then release a bunch of games using this engine. Saving costs, and effort and time. (no need to reinvent the wheel for each new game. So producing variants costs less in time, because they are not built from the ground up.) Because macross has one standard mecha, and many variants based off that standard, they have a whole host of different 'characters'/variants they can release with minimum effort. (not like the transformers or gundam where each mecha/robot has to be redone to be accurate to all the unique characters in the show. I doubt yamato would be able to release every character as easily as they do with SDF:macross/DYRL.)

As much as I want obscure VF like the VF4 I doubt it would be done because it wouldn't be as "milkable" as the vf1 was. VF1 is a good 'cash cow' in the sense that everyone has seen it, (recognisable like transformer's optimus prime) it sticks to a standard, and every character in the show pilots it. (rather than a seperate one for each character)

Edited May 4, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[bigkid24]

not really, if you actually read what that "side discussion" was about, it had to do discussing where yamato makes the bulk of their money. Most companies produce high end items as  a loss leader in order to establish a name or in order to sell smaller, easier to produce, higher profit items.

In the case of computers, most computers are sold at or near cost, and the profits are made up on the sale of accessories, laptop bags, cables, printer cartridges and the like. Just like most video game consoles are sold at a loss by the manufacturer and they make up the money selling games.

Yamato produces very few big ticket items and many of what they do produce are repaints or minor variations on an existing toy/sculpt. The vast majority of toys they sell are figurines are much simpler "action toys."

The comparison holds up fairly well.

396412[/snapback]

Okay, seriously what ass backward companies are you talking about? The video game industry is the closest thing that I can think of but that's still comparing apples and oranges. Console makers sell the console at a loss in order to get the revenue from the games. Without them sinking the money into the console, that whole revenue stream would not exist. Yamato didn't create the 1/48 at a loss so they could sell gashapons.

If you think that there is so much demand for gashapons for them to bring in more revenue at their price point than the 1/48s at their price point then I don't know what to say to you. And I'm talking at this point in the game, after Yamato has made practically every variant of the VF-1 vs all the gashapons they have made since the 1/48s were introduced.

Here's a real world example for you. Toynami started with morphers and keychains. Then they went to the MPCs. I talked to someone that used to be in the toy industry and he said that Toynami was basically flipping the money from the morphers and keychains in order to manufacture the MPCs. Given your logic they shouldn't have bothered with them since they'll sell them at a loss. Yet we've seen numerous MPCs both VF1s and Alphas and Toynami is moving into even higher end products with their Cinemaquettes. Why bother if they're going to sell at a loss. Oh and when was the last time that they sold a morpher? Sure they sold Voltron Imen but they stopped and then sold an MPC Voltron. You can point to their various figure lines like Chobits and Inu Yasha but even those lines are moving towards higher end merchandise.

Basically toy lines are like monopolies. They pay for a license and have exclusive rights to create items based on the rights they received. Simple economics tells us that in a monopoly situation you limit supply and jack up price to be the most profitable. Who else is making a 1/48? What's the price on those? Hmmm.... How many companies make computers? How quickly is the technology outdated? They have no choice but to live on low margins.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

not really, if you actually read what that "side discussion" was about, it had to do discussing where yamato makes the bulk of their money. Most companies produce high end items as  a loss leader in order to establish a name or in order to sell smaller, easier to produce, higher profit items.

In the case of computers, most computers are sold at or near cost, and the profits are made up on the sale of accessories, laptop bags, cables, printer cartridges and the like. Just like most video game consoles are sold at a loss by the manufacturer and they make up the money selling games.

Yamato produces very few big ticket items and many of what they do produce are repaints or minor variations on an existing toy/sculpt. The vast majority of toys they sell are figurines are much simpler "action toys."

The comparison holds up fairly well.

396412[/snapback]

Okay, seriously what ass backward companies are you talking about? The video game industry is the closest thing that I can think of but that's still comparing apples and oranges. Console makers sell the console at a loss in order to get the revenue from the games. Without them sinking the money into the console, that whole revenue stream would not exist. Yamato didn't create the 1/48 at a loss so they could sell gashapons.

If you think that there is so much demand for gashapons for them to bring in more revenue at their price point than the 1/48s at their price point then I don't know what to say to you. And I'm talking at this point in the game, after Yamato has made practically every variant of the VF-1 vs all the gashapons they have made since the 1/48s were introduced.

Here's a real world example for you. Toynami started with morphers and keychains. Then they went to the MPCs. I talked to someone that used to be in the toy industry and he said that Toynami was basically flipping the money from the morphers and keychains in order to manufacture the MPCs. Given your logic they shouldn't have bothered with them since they'll sell them at a loss. Yet we've seen numerous MPCs both VF1s and Alphas and Toynami is moving into even higher end products with their Cinemaquettes. Why bother if they're going to sell at a loss. Oh and when was the last time that they sold a morpher? Sure they sold Voltron Imen but they stopped and then sold an MPC Voltron. You can point to their various figure lines like Chobits and Inu Yasha but even those lines are moving towards higher end merchandise.

Basically toy lines are like monopolies. They pay for a license and have exclusive rights to create items based on the rights they received. Simple economics tells us that in a monopoly situation you limit supply and jack up price to be the most profitable. Who else is making a 1/48? What's the price on those? Hmmm.... How many companies make computers? How quickly is the technology outdated? They have no choice but to live on low margins.

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To balance this out and add a note though, Toynami DOES over price their MPC's and Voltron. It was said a year or two ago that the MPC was really 55$ but was sold@80$, and etailers were told that if they did not sell for 79.99, then they would not be allowed to sell them(or in other words, would not be supplied directly from HG). The etailers then said that after 3 months, they could price cut, and a lot of etailers did price cut. Also notice, free shipping was for a lot of the MPC's upon release from the etailers we usually order from. If I got anything wrong here, please any etailer that sold to us, feel free to correct me since its been some time since we have spoken about this.

This has to do with that monopoly thing you brought up. They might be selling the MPC at a loss, but by over charging, they got something out of it. Seriously, did anyone think the Voltron MPC was 150$? Almost everyone that bought it said they liked it but wished the price was lower.

And guys, we should all remember a year or two ago when a forum member from japan was saying that the max 1/48 and a couple others were freaking GATHERING dust @ the local TRU in japan that he was near. And that one was had for 75$. Yea, I'm pretty sure our monumental demand and superb out-of-japan-only sales drove that one down. yup.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Wouldn't it be nice if someone in japan could give us a tour of all the toy shops and upload the video of what they have on youtube or something?

Edited May 4, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[LORD KUNGFU]

I don't know how many yamato products you guys have, but I have well over one thousands 1/48s. I should say that my corporation owns over one thousands 1/48s since I used corporate moneys to purchase them. I really need to do an inventory and get firm numbers. NOt only do I give Yamato a lot of my money, but I think I could buy Yamato out as a whole. I should start my own toy company. Ill have to talk to my CFO about that idea. The only issue would be having to deal with HG. Hmmph......

[EXO]

I don't know how many yamato products you guys have, but I have well over one thousands 1/48s. I should say that my corporation owns over one thousands 1/48s since I used corporate moneys to purchase them. I really need to do an inventory and get firm numbers. NOt only do I give Yamato a lot of my money, but I think I could buy Yamato out as a whole. I should start my own toy company. Ill have to talk to my CFO about that idea. The only issue would be having to deal with HG. Hmmph......

Yeah... my CFO... Moooorgan Fairchild.  Yeah.  That's the ticket!

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[LORD KUNGFU]

actually, to answer the topic question. Yes, Yamato would do fine without MW. We do increase Yamato sales numbers. But, if you look at the amount of what people have according to there posts and amounts they show in there sigs. It really does not add up to that much. Our purchasing power would not make or break Yamato. If we all of a sudden just stop buying Yamato, I don't see them shutting down operations because of us. This is all speculation though and I do not know how Yamato runs there business.

[Black Valkyrie]

No. I wonder how many VFs Yamato produce from one type.

[buglips]

Does the Qrau actually scale to 1/60?  I've been looking at getting one (though I might repaint it to TV version), but from the pics I've seen it doesn't look big enough to actually be in scale.

I just figured that it was in the "close enough" range to go with the VF's, but not actually to scale.

But I haven't seen a direct comparison or measurements either, so I don't actually know how big it really is.

Probably doesn't matter since it's big enough for what I want, I was just curious.

396405[/snapback]

Well according to mahq the movie version is approximately 17.1 meters, some 56.1 feet (don’t know if that includes the antenna). At 1/60 the thing should be 28,5 cm, which is what my Q-Rau is approximately (if you count the antenna it's almost 31 cm tall, some 12.1 inches). So you can say it’s virtually 100% 1/60.

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Thank you for clarifying that.