Vf-5

[Lestat]

Forget about the SV-51. The UN does not make use of anti-un designs.

[sketchley]

The VFERRs:

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...acter_model.htm

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...2004-page-6.jpg

I fully realize that this is a column in a 'character modeling magazine' and that it being canon could be in dispute. Nevertheless, it does firmly plant the idea that the UN, though it may not have used the design in actual operations, probably raided it for useable technology.

There is evidence of the UN doing this later, in canon parts of the series with the Variable Gluag, and the YF-21/VF-22 - raiding Zentraedi technology that is.

Nevertheless, the only thing that I am 'requesting' being 'imported' from the SV-51 is that the gun pod becomes part of the fuselage in fighter mode.

This is not a big sticking point for me (whether the community accepts this or not) as I am waffling between incorporating the gun pod as part of the fuselage, storing the gun pod internally, or doing the standard thing (gun pod mounted externally below the centerline of the fighter.) After all, the VF-5 is designed for water landing - which doesn't mean that it always has to land in water.

Edited June 3, 2006 by sketchley

[Lestat]

The VFERRs:

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...acter_model.htm

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...2004-page-6.jpg

I fully realize that this is a column in a 'character modeling magazine' and that it being canon could be in dispute.  Nevertheless, it does firmly plant the idea that the UN, though it may not have used the design in actual operations, probably raided it for useable technology.

There is evidence of the UN doing this later, in canon parts of the series with the Variable Gluag, and the YF-21/VF-22 - raiding Zentraedi technology that is.

Nevertheless, the only thing that I am 'requesting' being 'imported' from the SV-51 is that the gun pod becomes part of the fuselage in fighter mode.

This is not a big sticking point for me (whether the community accepts this or not) as I am waffling between incorporating the gun pod as part of the fuselage, storing the gun pod internally, or doing the standard thing (gun pod mounted externally below the centerline of the fighter.)  After all, the VF-5 is designed for water landing - which doesn't mean that it always has to land in water. 

404985[/snapback]

Yes, undoubtably they did much to raid the design, but you're forgetting much was lost in the final battle of SWI, such as all the development on the VF-3. Since the VF-0 and the events of Macross 0 are top secret, and no valkyrie between the VF-4 and VF-9 is seen to have active stealth, it's reasonable to say that the VF-5 would not have.

Macross diverges from the real world in the 1980s. In its timeline, we've got only four more years left before the near total extinction of humanity, and for seven years there has been an alien battleship being rebuilt on a remote pacific island...

The VF-5 needs a gunpod, but I disagree with storing things internally. Firstly, it doesn't sound like a cheap option, and secondly, an internal storage bay would not be compromising in space, but it would with water landings, as it could compromise the boueyancy of the aerospacecraft.

I'm standing by my designs. Although I'm thinking of revising the chestplate to bring back the air intakes a little.

Theorietically, the fighter could simply close its air breathing intakes for take off, since it doesn't actually need them... Really, why the VF-1 even has them is beyond me.

[sketchley]

The Macross pseudoscience explanation is that the engines are air-breathing, mixing air and reactant to power the thermonuclear engines.

In space, they operate without the air, but the fuel gets used up a lot, lot quicker.

The other angle to look at is cooling. The engines of the YF-19, VF-19, YF-21, and VF-22 all overheat at high thrust settings without air being sucked/rammed through the engines.

They are, in fact, the only 4 VFs that have a lower max thrust in space than they do in an atmosphere.

http://macross.anime.net//mecha/united_nat...yf19/index.html

By VF-3 do you mean VF-X-3?

Edited June 3, 2006 by sketchley

[IAD]

I tend to agree... Active stealth seems like an expensive item, for a cheap variable... (After all, the real-world F-5 A/B didn't even have radar.)

Expensive and apparently useless... In M0, nobody seems to have any trouble finding enemies to shoot at. (Everybody's using FLIR?)

Another thing... When the Compendium says "variable" does this mandate the standard three-mode (fighter/GERWALK/Battleroid) setup? If this thing is supposed to be even cheaper than a VF-1 (which looks pretty small and cheap to me) a possible first step would be to eliminate one of the modes. (Personally, I'd get rid of Battleroid, but that's practically first-degree Macrossicide.)

It would simplify the control system, and could reduce the number of (ultra-super-uber-powerful) actuators needed. (Those things have GOT to be expensive.)

~Luke

[sketchley]

Well, as GERWALK is technically not a mode at all, and really just a VF stopped mid-transformation, it really isn't a mode to begin with.

Anyhow, I think something to keep in mind is that this is anime and anime magic applies. What may in reality not be cheap at all, may be very cheap in the anime (think: privately owned Valkyries. All of them must be built like cars and set to a low performance level - how in the heck would owners be able to afford them otherwise?!?)

EDITed for spelling mistakes.

Edited June 4, 2006 by sketchley

[sketchley]

Gah! Forgot to add the VF-3000 and VF-3000B to the list of VFs produced around the same era as the VF-5.

http://macross.anime.net//mecha/united_nat...3000/index.html

Key phrase: "(...) developed the VF-5000 from the VF-3000 design."

In close inspection of the line-art on pg 59 of "Shoji Kawamori's Macross Design Works" I have the suspicion that the VF-3000 has 2 launch missile launchers in the arm - akin to the NP-AR-01 on the VF-1 Booby Duck.

[IAD]

Concerning privately owned variables... There are privately owned fighter jets (mainly early model MiG-29s, and F-16s) around... So, in the Macross world, a parallel would be private VFs. It doesn't mean they were/are cheap, necessarily.

I'm not too well-read on Mac7, but weren't the non-military VFs owned by [presumably rich] pop stars? (Similar to Travolta's aircraft collection, which includes an F-16 or two, as I recall.)

Anyway, enough talk. Let's see if we can't post some designs!

~Luke

[Lestat]

Another thing...  When the Compendium says "variable" does this mandate the standard three-mode (fighter/GERWALK/Battleroid) setup?  If this thing is supposed to be even cheaper than a VF-1 (which looks pretty small and cheap to me) a possible first step would be to eliminate one of the modes.  (Personally, I'd get rid of Battleroid, but  that's practically first-degree Macrossicide.) 

405068[/snapback]

I already stipulated that my design is rid of GERWALK. Some other semi-official designs (SDP-1S for example) got rid of them because they were space fighters. VF-5 is, and so I did.

[sketchley]

Here's the first of at least 3 planned images of the VF-5 I am designing.

I've made some small changes to the design that I submitted above, as per the course of this thread.

I think the biggest change is the inclusion of rear tails - reason being: I found a way to include them in the battroid design, and the jet looks that much cooler with them.

Edit: the artwork can be seen here: http://studiootaking.deviantart.com/art/VF-5-62767743

Edited August 20, 2007 by sketchley

[sketchley]

Here's the rear 3/4 view from the underside.

The water landing skis, and the nose undercarriage doors have been removed (from the picture) - as they made those parts of the jet visually confusing. The rear landing gear doors have been left in.

Edit: the artwork can be seen here: http://studiootaking.deviantart.com/art/VF-5-62767743

Edited August 20, 2007 by sketchley

[Lestat]

Nice to see you putting your money where your mouth is Sketchley

Your design is interesting. Nice to see you put tail fins back into your design. Not seeing any active stealth in there really though.

It will be interesting to see the other modes.

[sketchley]

I never said I was including Active Stealth.

The claim that I was making when I made that post is that it is possible for every and all VFs except the VF-0 to have it.

[sketchley]

Notes: legs rotate just above the knees, to expose the knee joints and protect the water skis/keel.

Transformation is "like" the VF-17, with the nose/cockpit section first going down (to form the hips) and then the cockpit sliding up into the protective 'cocoon.'

I'm not 100% happy with it - specifically the head and chest details. Also, my Photoshop is not behaving itself and it is a struggle getting all the 'white' of the paper out of the original image so that the colour layers underneath show through. Gah!

Edit: the artwork can be seen here: http://studiootaking.deviantart.com/art/VF-5-62767743

Edited August 20, 2007 by sketchley

[kensei]

Bringing a never before seen VF to life....I love it!

[Lestat]

Notes: legs rotate just above the knees, to expose the knee joints and protect the water skis/keel.

Transformation is "like" the VF-17, with the nose/cockpit section first going down (to form the hips) and then the cockpit sliding up into the protective 'cocoon.'

I'm not 100% happy with it - specifically the head and chest details.  Also, my Photoshop is not behaving itself and it is a struggle getting all the 'white' of the paper out of the original image so that the colour layers underneath show through.  Gah!

405508[/snapback]

Try using the original b&w copy as a new layer set to overlay mode.

That ought to darken the lines, but will not show any of the white.

Soon we ought to have serious competition. hehe. Project Supernova all over again.

[Ido]

Concerning privately owned variables...  There are privately owned fighter jets (mainly early model MiG-29s, and F-16s) around...  So, in the Macross world, a parallel would be private VFs.  It doesn't mean they were/are cheap, necessarily.

I'm not too well-read on Mac7, but weren't the non-military VFs owned by [presumably rich] pop stars?  (Similar to Travolta's aircraft collection, which includes an F-16 or two, as I recall.)

Anyway, enough talk.  Let's see if we can't post some designs!

~Luke

405108[/snapback]

Nope they don't privately own their valks, they are supllied by the army to them, and they aren't rich at all for the most of series

However in an episode its shown that some City7 citizens privately own some space war 1 valks and destroyers (even a monster!), some of them are retired soldiers.

Looks some sort of antiques weapons collections, likely someone who collect WW2 stuff.

[sketchley]

Try using the original b&w copy as a new layer set to overlay mode.

That ought to darken the lines, but will not show any of the white.

Soon we ought to have serious competition. hehe. Project Supernova all over again.

405531[/snapback]

Interesting... my first tries with the overlay mode ended with mixed results - stronger black lines, but the dark blue went to neon blue... will play more with this later. I should note here that I'm more 'fluent' on Adobe Illustrator than Photoshop...

I should note that I had to rescan the original image, as in the creation process of the gif above, I vaporized the 'white' pixels and made the background blank/empty. The white pixels eat up far too much disc space, IMHO.

Edited June 5, 2006 by sketchley

[sketchley]

Doodled this up last night.

It's the transformation sequence of the VF-5 that I've been whiping up. It looks like it *may* be able to do a gerwalk mode... but it's not going to be a very stable mode on the ground. Perhaps that's why it's so cheap?

EDIT: the artwort is available here: http://studiootaking.deviantart.com/art/VF...mation-62766890

Edited August 20, 2007 by sketchley

[Lestat]

I have to say, I'm keen on your fighter mode, but not so much on the battroid.

[IAD]

Looks very good. I like the fighter quite a bit. The canards would help keep the delta planform maneuverable in a high-AOA dogfight.

Is the 'normal' looking exhaust cone an Su-35/37-style 2D thrust-vector nozzle?

~Luke

[Knight26]

Now I'm torn, I like them both really, sketchley's almost looks like a cartoon render of a 3-D modelling program, nice.

[sketchley]

Looks very good.  I like the fighter quite a bit.  The canards would help keep the delta planform maneuverable in a high-AOA dogfight.

Is the 'normal' looking exhaust cone an Su-35/37-style 2D thrust-vector nozzle?

~Luke

405823[/snapback]

Thanks. That's one of the reasons I included them - the other being the coolness factor.

I didn't know the Su-35/37 had thrust-vectoring. I'm basing the idea off of the 3-D thrust-vector nozzle that was tested on the F-15 ACTIVE, F-16 VISTA, and the F-18 (sorry, can't find a link nor image - saw it once on a NASA website.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-15S/MTD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-16_Fighting_Falcon

Now I'm torn, I like them both really, sketchley's almost looks like a cartoon render of a 3-D modelling program, nice.

405845[/snapback]

Thanks. It is all hand drawn (.50 to 1.0 nibs on 81.4 g/m² Nakabayashi printing paper - neither the worst nor best,) scanned at 300 DBI and "hand painted" in Photoshop.

In having completed what I have to date, I am tempted to say that the above submissions are a 'work in progress' and that there is some tweaking needed - especially to the battroid mode.

I'm also currently thinking about what accessories it will get (gun pod, FAST pack, etc..)

Sadly... work...

Edited June 7, 2006 by sketchley

[sketchley]

OK... after some thought, I've come up with a nick-name for the VF-5:

Aegir.

Norse god/ruler of the sea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Norse_gods

This fits into the Norse motif established with the VF-1 Valkyrie.

[Lestat]

OK... after some thought, I've come up with a nick-name for the VF-5:

Aegir.

Norse god/ruler of the sea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Norse_gods

This fits into the Norse motif established with the VF-1 Valkyrie.

405989[/snapback]

Could be a good name for it. Following that theme, it could also be named njord, trident, or poseidon. Other names might include harpoon or torpedo

[sketchley]

I like Aegir because it sounds like auger. As in, "we'll put the screws on them!" when the VF-5 is called out to battle.

Though Njord also sounds cool - slightly remeniscent of Fjord. What's the meaning of Njord?

[Lestat]

Njord is the Vanir Norse god of the sea, probably a giant.

He is the father of Frej and Freja (using swedish spellings here).

As for meanings, it's a name. Aegir is the Aesir god of the sea. Traditionally, Njord appears to have been more important/prominent, and is known to have the most beautiful feet of all the gods (The frost giantess Skadi demanded a husband from the Aesir (Njord was a hostage exchanged at the end of the war between the Aesir and Vanir, and is considered an Aesir god after this early event) because the gods had slain her father (or was it brother)... but the catch was she had to decide based solely on the feet of the individual. Thinking the one with the most beautiful feet was Baldur, she mistakenly selected njord).

[sketchley]

OK... I like both names. Going by the descriptions we have:

Aegir - Ruler of the Sea.

Njord - God of Sea, wind, fish, and wealth.

By this and some of the extended information I was able to find off of the wikipedia link from above, I'm leaning towards Njord.

Why? It fits/describes the role of the VF-5 better, IMHO. The role being, of course, air-superiority over heavily-watered planets; in addition to exploration; and the protection (or development) of wealth (both by colonists, and businesses.) Which, if I understand my religious basics, is the role(s) the god Njord would undertake.

Edited June 8, 2006 by sketchley

[Lestat]

True. But Aegir is a less unwieldly name.

Njord is pronounced n-yord, Aegir as a(e)-gear. The latter has a much flowing sound to it.

Then again sturmvogel is not a wieldly name...

[Kurisama]

Ummm... i don't know where u got the idea for setting the layer to 'overlay', but what u should really be doing is setting the line art layer to 'multiply' and putting it at the top of the layer stack.

This way u can block in colours on the lower layers and the line art will look good.

Try fidling witht the levels (Ctrl+L) to clean up the lines a bit.

[eugimon]

Then again sturmvogel is not a wieldly name...

as german words go, it's one of the easier to pronounce

[sketchley]

Sometime after the discussion with Lestat, I stumbled across the "multiply" option (I think I read about it on the internet somewhere...) I've been using it ever since in the manga that I've been creating for the past year +. (I'm mentioning it as it's why the VF-5 project never continued. I had some ideas, ah well. I'm happier playing in my own universe, and not in someone else's.)

[eugimon]

post up a link!

[sketchley]

... thanks for Google for locating this topic (MW's internal search feature is frightfully unuseful...).

The VF-5 project continued:

Ver.3 (current version):

Ver.2 (VF-5 redux):

brainstorming/transformation:

Tenjin Hidetaka inspired illo that resulted in the rejection of Ver.2:

Ver.1:

Did we ever decide on a pet name for the VF-5? Aegir or Njord?

[sketchley]

... and continues:

Bit o' a WIP: http://www.deviantart.com/download/214427159/vf_5_over_uraga_wip2_by_studiootaking-d3jnx1z.jpg

The Uraga came out much better than I anticipated (and yes, that's despite there not being any lineart that clearly depicts the bridge side of the ship!)

Revised Tenjin Hidetaka inspired illo: