What Changes, If Any, Whether It Be Big Or Small

[JB0]

another thing i would change would be to stick to more VF-1a style heads and less J and S "facey" looking heads.  Just my opinion, i like macross for its attempts at military utilitarism.

396722[/snapback]

Odd, because I hate the A head.

'S all J all the time here.

-Some post-war Q-raus would have the chest cannons replaced by high powered lights, just to be able to have the pilots say that they flashed someone. (I know that was cheesy)

396722[/snapback]

Wasn't that done in Mac 7 already??? Everything else was...

Nope. They added colored smoke streams to one in The Galaxy Is Calling Me, though.

- I'd like to see Prometheus look like it was adapted for space, in that it would have enclosed elevators for the fighters.  As it was it looked like it was business as usual but in space...

Well, it WAS a half-assed jury rig.

- Redesign of the battle pods to something a bit more consistent with a race who is accustomed to space and planetary battles (the pods are poor examples of effective battle mecha - especially against their equally giant foe the SA).

Was a better design than the flying green things.

I don't think I saw ANYONE fielding particularly good space combat vehicle.

...

I take it back. The QRau and FAST-pack'ed VF-1 were decently loaded with verniers.

[Zinjo]

- I'd like to see Prometheus look like it was adapted for space, in that it would have enclosed elevators for the fighters.  As it was it looked like it was business as usual but in space...

Well, it WAS a half-assed jury rig.

That maybe so, but if they had the resources and the manpower to help build a "city" within the Macross, surely they could have made the Prometheus a bit more "spaceworthy".

...

I take it back. The QRau and FAST-pack'ed VF-1 were decently loaded with verniers.

396923[/snapback]

Well I'm sure just about everyone on these boards would agree that the QRau was the opitome of a badass space fighter!

Edited May 5, 2006 by Zinjo

[KingNor]

Edit - I also thing the color schemes should be uniform. While it was cool during the TV series for Max to have a blue Valk, it also identified him to the enemy. The Zentradi might have never known that there was one particular giant killer amongst the humans if all the Valks were brown. Also the head styles look like they denote rank. I don't see a practical value of exposing who your flght leaders and squadron commanders are to the enemy. I understand for the show, you had to help the audience differentiate the characters planes plus the marketing/toy aspect, but for pure survival issues, I think the more obvious different head styles and color schemes have to go.

396957[/snapback]

I think you're over analysing here. The zentradi recognised max skill because it was written that way, no one really mentioned that the noticed him because of his blue plane.

Max's reltationship to the Zentradi is a fundamental part of the serise, and won't be affected by the color of his valk/uniform.

Now you could argue that it "looked stupid" to have the multiple colored valks and unifroms but this is my take on that:

The uniforms were anything but. Say you have a bunch of similar uniforms (cut wise) but they are diffrent colors to denote service. ie: Blue uniforms are fule techs, white and red are pilots, black and purple are commanders, green and white are for mechanics and so on.

I'm sure the SDF didn't come with unlimited resorces to outfit an extra dozen thousand of people, and it needed pilots, so maybe the colors are more out of need?

Thats just my take on it, obviously the colors are just to help identify characters, the fact of the matter is we don't have any idea why the uniforms are diffrent colors, it's never explained. Perhaps UNspacy promotes individualism in their military. Perhaps its the reason i stated above. Who knows? Because it's never explained.

Same with the valks, who's to say that High Viz "Parade" valks weren't stowed on board? The SDF did launch during a celebration after all. It would make sence to have lots of brigh tflasshy show valks on board. Again, it's never mentioned in the show why there are "hero" valks.

My point is that, these things are superficial to the story. Roy died because of the story , not because his valk was the skull001. He would have died no matter what. Max fell in love with Miria because that's important to the story. Not because he's obsessed with blue.

[Briareos9]

Take the YF-21:

-Strip out all the transformation equipment, ie redesign it into a pure fixed wing fighter.

-Mount the most powerful engines I can get away with now that they don't have to deal with being linearly squashed in transformation, and I have extra internal space.

-See about upgrading the guns now that I don't need to accomodate the transformation gear, and thus have more space for them.

-Use extra empty space to compensate for needed extra fuel, and to expand missile bays.

-Add the option of external hardpoint pylons for missions where stealth is a minor issue in relation to payload.

-Fix the BDI system, Guld was obviously honking mad when he was beating the **** out of Isamu over Earth and it didn't cut out or malfunction. It even stayed fully functional when he was literally coming apart so that technology can't be so fundamentally flawed it can't be deployed as an option for those who can take advantage of it.

Then proceed to utterly dominate Project Supernova. For those who say, "we have to have a tranformable fighter" I point to the fact the Ghost was a fixed wing nontransformable vehicle, and they were more then happy to ditch the AVFs for that. Note also the YF-21 is already setup for STOVL without needing the transformation equipment. Read the thing about the slits in Gerwalk mode if you don't want to take my word on it. Plus without the transformation gear it'll be sturdier and have a lighter dry weight.

[Phalanx]

Now you could argue that it "looked stupid" to have the multiple colored valks and unifroms..

Well, like I said, most of my comments were changes made for tactical purposes. I understand the show itself needed to ID the characters planes and also expand the marketing/variations on the toys.

I really think its less about looking stupid and more about looking dead.

During WW2, IIRC, in 1944, the US experimented with a new kind of camo uniform for operations in Europe. It was tested and promptly discarded. The camo was often confused for camo used by German paratrooper. Some US servicemen were shot and killed by friendly fire. Its a common tactic to target infantry commanders and radiomen on the battlefield. In law enforcement you are trained to take out the greatest threat, if there are five guys with pistols shooting at you and one with a submachine gun, you try to blow away the guy with the submachine gun first.

If Valks color scheme on the planes or different head styles denote rank or skill level, and you flew a Regult, would you

A) Shoot down the Valks that you could ID that held the older, more experienced, more skilled pilots in the distinctive planes first?

or

B) Shoot down the cannon fodders, and hope the older, more experienced, more skilled Valk pilots, that you IDed but ignored, aren't right behind you?

I'm not trying to bust your chops, but trying to target enemy officers in combat to reduce the morale and competence of the enemy is a common tactic used throughout the history of warfare.

397051[/snapback]

I gotta agree with Death Hammer on this one because these significant changes do serve a logical purposes for survival. I would focus on the experienced pilots first since they pose a challenge and once you gotten them out of the way, if you can since their so skilled, you can focus on the CF's since they tend to be piloted by inexperienced rookies. So I would go with choice A.

Also my favorite valk the Valkyrie 2 is perfect example of what you said about it's best that individual colorschemes and distinct head designs to distinguish rank should go. The Valkyire 2 has the same battroid head designs like everyone else and a Zentraedi pilot wouldn't be able to tell which one is piloted by an experienced pilot with the exception of the color stripe on the chestplates. Also when you stated that the VF-1 should have different gunpods for purposes the Valk 2 has that but not a sniper rifle version of their beam pods.

[Zinjo]

I really think its less about looking stupid and more about looking dead.

I'm not trying to bust your chops, but trying to target enemy officers in combat to reduce the morale and competence of the enemy is a common tactic used throughout the history of warfare.

397051[/snapback]

Not to take anything away from your valid point, but this IS an anime show, not tactical wargames at the pentagon.

In a typical furball of several hundred aircraft dog fighting, it is conceivable that the "aces" were not actually noticed during a desperate struggle just to survive the melee!

Another thought to consider is that you describe typical human war doctrine, whereas the Zentreadi may exercise a different battle philosophy entirely.

From what we've seen their major doctrine is to over run their enemies with superior numbers and firepower as opposed to engaging in a tactical battle.

We also learn they are not very well versed in tactical fighting, even with Britai's unusual skill in that regard. Thus the notion of singling out a single "ace" was not something they tended to do in battle in favor of simply blasting the whole fleet to dust with a massive gun barrage with pod support.

The Meltrandi fleets may have been accustomed to this style of warfare, but not the Zentran. Thus to the Zentran a fleets' colorful fighters are simply enemy fighters that will be destroyed in the end.

The color schemes of the fighters didn't matter until Lap Lamiz and her fleet arrived and even then it appears that it was only she and her forces who paid enemy aces any sort of regard.

[NERV]

i would start with a YF-21 and make it the baddest motherf*cker in the fleet make it gloss black with metallic crimson trim instead of fingertips give it claws for close combat it would still have fornal hands just with claws instead of rounded fingertips give it a more aggressive face the hexagon eye is fine but it wont make the enemy piss their pants and since the thing is normally controlled by brainwaves being converted into coputer signal i would make it capable of being remote controlled so someone could fully utilize it's ability without dying from the g-forces and give it an option for somekind of buster cannon similar to the strike valk and give it a beam sword just for the hell of it they do it with all the giant robots the 21's explanaion would be it was ppb prisecly shaped into a blade that way it could vary in size and never get dull and the sword would have some kind of badass mode where it directs all the 21's power to sword to make some gigantic blade capable of taking down the starships didnt the metal siren have something like that? too bad the siren has an ugly battroid mode

[Sumdumgai]

Pinpoint claws huh, not a bad idea.

Why not also have it designed to have a full barrier overload setting as a last resort...

[KingNor]

If I was going to REALLY change anything about SDFMacross, i would make the Valks fly at 12fps minimum at ALL times. :-) no more 4 fps sequences

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

another thing i would change would be to stick to more VF-1a style heads and less J and S "facey" looking heads.

It might be that the different heads need more space and are generally higher quality. For example the head turret of the VF1S seems to have a wraparound visor while the J has widescreen and A has close to 4:3.

If it were up to me I would equip as many vfs with 1S heads (like the VF1-B) for increased viewing area. A 1a probably has crappier resolution too. The 1S has a round shape to it meaning it might be stronger and more robust (round shapes distribute damage more evenly across the surface) as well as aerodynamic.

On top of having more headlasers, there may be a psycological reason to make shape like "the human face" so as to say to the aliens: you are not fighting a robotic version of yourself, it is almostl ike we are equal to you in every way. A face might be more intimidating than a machine with a tv camera. Even the Qrau has a kind of 'mask'. And the powered armor that guy uses in macross II has a menacing looking appearance. By having something that is distinct to your way of life, culture, and identity and something you can be proud of, it gives people more incentive to want to fight more effectively when they become inspired by the well known hero figure who is like the elite status symbol to the lesser-skilled guys. (ie char's kill ratio in gundam and the nickname 'red comet'. An ace can afford to show off because no one other than an equally skilled person can beat them)

The aces seen in macross I liken to aces like the red baron. Yeah it was flashy color but think of the technology as being new and only a few people knowing how to fully use them. (shin was a great fighter pilot in macross zero but he just wasn't using his potential and thinking about fighting in a VF at full potential which allowed him to be shot down so easily for not believing in new ways of doing things) So an ace that stands out and can kick ass in a complex machine is like a morale boost to the others. For every kill recorded it gives the human population a hero to be proud of. Now I liken the complexitiy of piloting a multi form mecha to the manual dexterity needed to pilot those old WWI planes and to get a hit. (maybe there is far more danger in space combat and far more to remember in battroid mode than just traditional technology?) Max's ability to have such good spatial awareness and dodge and shoot with such accuracy could be the equivalent of the skill needed to manually aim and line up your guns with limited technology like the WWI pilots where is was all about your skill not just the computer. (ie making him an 'ace of aces' allowed to fight in his own style and create and pioneer his own theories on effective combat strategies with a 3 form mecha)

As for yf21 and making it a dedicated fighter: the ghost wasn't able to outsmart guld in battroid mode (battroid mode and gerwalk mode as seen in macross zero allows all kinds of tricks - one of them being that in battroid mode you can use the cover of the environment to make it hard for the ghost to get an effective angle to shoot from and being generally more armored in battroid mode) but only beat him in speed. The fighter mode was merely used as a kamikaze last resort AFTER the limiter was taken off and because the ghost was unmanned (and could reach those speeds) not because the ghost was somehow better than a pilot in skill or that fighter mode must be the best for all combat situations.

eg: Like the use of manipulator arms to aim the gunpods from the ground from a hidden position and use the element of surprise. (note shin's humiliation by roy as roy preaches about thinking about all modes of combat in macross zero? And how shin can only beat nora when thinking about all three modes?) Or say in a situation like in DYRL when the zentradi actually managed to come inside the ship and attack with thier powered armor. I think a fighter would have less chance of survival because it is such a cramped space. You would be able to hide behind cover in battroid and shoot from a protected position without the penalties to your firing angle. (fighter has the gunpod in a fixed forward-firing position meaning no defence against micromissile swarm or able to spread your shots across a wide arc easily)

Edited May 6, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[JB0]

another thing i would change would be to stick to more VF-1a style heads and less J and S "facey" looking heads.

It might be that the different heads need more space and are generally higher quality. For example the head turret of the VF1S seems to have a wraparound visor while the J has widescreen and A has close to 4:3.

If I recall, they show the cameras behind the 1S visor a few times, and it's not that diffrent. Remember, teh green part isn't a sensor, just a window.

But the head has to be larger for the lasers. It's got to have cooling equipment for 2 on the J and 4 on the S.

If it were up to me I would equip as many vfs with 1S heads (like the VF1-B) for increased viewing area. A 1a probably has crappier resolution too.

I'd stud the body with cameras, and provide a 360-wraparound view.

...

Like the YF-19.

Anyways, remove the centralized sensor suite, and you can't easily blind the pilot with one shot. Make the head JUST a laser turret.

The 1S has a round shape to it meaning it might be stronger and more robust (round shapes distribute damage more evenly across the surface) as well as aerodynamic.

Both pretty good points. Also has a "lip" over the visor, which should make it harder to get a clean shot into the sensor window(have to be closer to straight line because it's recessed). Possibly outweighed by the large side sweep. And not really useful against the combat they were seeing most of(but it'd be good against lightly-armed opponents).

On top of having more headlasers, there may be a psycological reason to make shape like "the human face" so as to say to the aliens: you are not fighting a robotic version of yourself, it is almostl ike we are equal to you in every way. A face might be more intimidating than a machine with a tv camera.

Translation: I like the Sound Force Valks.

Kidding. But I believe that WAS part of the argument behind the Sound Force design.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

If I recall, they show the cameras behind the 1S visor a few times, and it's not that diffrent. Remember, teh green part isn't a sensor, just a window.

But the head has to be larger for the lasers. It's got to have cooling equipment for 2 on the J and 4 on the S.

Ah I didn't know that. If the 1S doesn't allow you to see more than I guess the main advantage is just more lasers. (less overheating and faster firing rate?)

The reason I got that idea is from games like tekki where the earlier mechs have crappier monitors and perpheral vision. (this is done on purpose) And the later ones give you more luxury and convenience. (seeing more at any one time so you don't have to pan the camera across the landscape so much)

Close combat is always a possibility or even preffered. It might be the goal of a desperate zentradi soldier (who is a mere number in billions) to first blind the pilot by going for the head turret and crushing it with claws or something. So taking stupid risks might be worth it if the pilot is a big threat.

Kidding. But I believe that WAS part of the argument behind the Sound Force design.

Well the mouth opening up from a 'covering' might be like saying: I'm going to sing now so you better watch out. Like pointing a gun to a hostage to say, harm this guy and I will shoot!

Edited May 6, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[JB0]

If I recall, they show the cameras behind the 1S visor a few times, and it's not that diffrent. Remember, teh green part isn't a sensor, just a window.

But the head has to be larger for the lasers. It's got to have cooling equipment for 2 on the J and 4 on the S.

Ah I didn't know that. If the 1S doesn't allow you to see more than I guess the main advantage is just more lasers. (less overheating and faster firing rate?)

I THINK on the cameras. Not sure. I know the green part isn't the actual sensor, but I'm not sure on the camera layout.

Also possible the camera mount swivels, whouch would let the pilot look one way while "facing" another. I can't think of a real use for it, though.

And yes, I AM contradicting myself now.

But yeah, those would be the primary advantages of multiple lasers.

Or fire them all at once for quad-damage. You can see that when Hikaru saves Misa from the destroyed Grand Cannon.

Kidding. But I believe that WAS part of the argument behind the Sound Force design.

Well the mouth opening up from a 'covering' might be like saying: I'm going to sing now so you better watch out. Like pointing a gun to a hostage to say, harm this guy and I will shoot!

Haw.

"OH NO! NOT PLANET DANCE! SWEET MERCIFUL ALTHENA, SURRENDER NOW!"

Edited May 6, 2006 by JB0

[Zinjo]

...give it a more aggressive face the hexagon eye is fine but it wont make the enemy piss their pants and since the thing is normally controlled by brainwaves being converted into coputer signal i would make it capable of being remote controlled so someone could fully utilize it's ability without dying from the g-forces

397092[/snapback]

You are aware that by Mac 7 they abandoned the whole brainwave control program right? Max's blue VF-22 was manually controlled like any other fighter.

....and give it a beam sword just for the hell of it they do it with all the giant robots the 21's explanaion would be it was ppb prisecly shaped into a blade that way it could vary in size and never get dull and the sword would have some kind of badass mode where it directs all the 21's power to sword to make some gigantic blade capable of taking down the starships

397092[/snapback]

Methinks we have an avid Gundam fan here....

didnt the metal siren have something like that?

397092[/snapback]

Nope it had a pointed nose cone that became a sort of a jousting lance in Gerwalk and Battloid modes. When energized with a pinpoint barrier around it, it acted similar to the gundam laser swords in that it could spear and cut into the hulls of enemy vehicles, if I recall correctly.

[gerwalk25]

Just imagine if the almighty Hoary Froating Head stuck with his "Breast Fighter" design in lieu of the Valk?!

[Sundown]

If Valks color scheme on the planes or different head styles denote rank or skill level, and you flew a Regult, would you

A) Shoot down the Valks that you could ID that held the older, more experienced, more skilled pilots in the distinctive planes first?

or

B) Shoot down the cannon fodders, and hope the older, more experienced, more skilled Valk pilots, that you IDed but ignored, aren't right behind you?

Being the grunt that I am with a keen sense of survival, I'd target the CF's and hope the aces ignore me rather than provoke the ire of a Roy, Hikaru, or Max. At least mixed in amongst the brownies, I'll have a chance. =P

Just imagine if the almighty Hoary Froating Head stuck with his "Breast Fighter" design in lieu of the Valk?!   

399786[/snapback]

He did. It's called Macross 7.

Edited May 17, 2006 by Sundown

[gerwalk25]

Just imagine if the almighty Hoary Froating Head stuck with his "Breast Fighter" design in lieu of the Valk?!   

399786[/snapback]

He did. It's called Macross 7.

399952[/snapback]

!