Hasegawa Variable Vf-1 Model

[deadboy]

I think is a fact that the hasegawa versions of VF-1 valkyries are the best reproductions ever done; so i really can't understand why they don't make a variable version or at least a modification set to use for the actually existing hasegawa kits, as some private modeler have already done?????

[HWR MKII]

If hasegawa did do that they wouldnt be able to keep that realistic look. If you get the hase battroid kit you can see there was alot of anime magic involved in the transformation.

[deadboy]

If hasegawa did do that they wouldnt be able to keep that realistic look. If you get the hase battroid kit you can see there was alot of anime magic involved in the transformation.

393833[/snapback]

Look at this 'magic' then:

http://photos.yahoo.co.jp/ph/horton1485/ls...&.src=ph&.view=

at this images i lost the link:

Anyway if yamato did it hasegawa can do it too

[Kylwell]

IIRC the Yam Valks are 1:48 scale. A bit easier to to do at larger scales.

[HWR MKII]

If you look in the pics some of the proportions are off too. The chest plate is too wide and the legs are too skinny for battroid mode. Yamato was able to do what they did since it was 1/48 scale and they uase proportions off all 3 modes blended into one to make a really good looking valk. the hase battroids and fighters are quite different in their parts,

The variable valk above was done mainly using a fighter with alot of modification, Hase would try to find a way to use the molds they already have and that would result in a badly mis proportioned valk. Personally i am happy with non variable kits since im not one to "play" with my models.

[Sdf-1]

I don't understand what is the point to transform a model kit. Even the joints are more like for posing them and leave it like it is. If you want a toy, buy a toy. IMO that is of course.

[Noyhauser]

If hasegawa did do that they wouldnt be able to keep that realistic look. If you get the hase battroid kit you can see there was alot of anime magic involved in the transformation.

393833[/snapback]

Look at this 'magic' then:

http://photos.yahoo.co.jp/ph/horton1485/ls...&.src=ph&.view=

at this images i lost the link:

Anyway if yamato did it hasegawa can do it too

393839[/snapback]

Ugh, please don't talk to us in a condecending matter. We've probably seen everything you have, most likely, alot more.

In addition to the proportions issue, there are other ones about the want for transformation. Transformation ruins paintjobs. Models are models, they aren't meant to be picked up and played around with. Yamatos and Bandais (even their gundams except for some B-club stuff) are toys. Those are meant to be picked up and played around with. Hasegawa is a aircraft Modeling company, maybe the best in the business. Their products are intended to sit on a shelf and look pretty, not to be handled after they are finished. Now one could say that they bended those rules a slight bit when they made the VF-1 Battroid, but all in all its still basically a Model with some toylike posability features. Making a transformable valk in some way is the antithesis of that.

[HWR MKII]

Sorry if i came off condecending.

[Noyhauser]

Sorry if i came off condecending.

393899[/snapback]

It wasn't intended at you at all, and I don't think I've ever seen you anything but cordial on this forum. If anything my reply was condecending to his original condecending remark.

[HWR MKII]

cool just wasnt sure which way that was pointed.

[Fly4victory]

The variable kits are hard on paint but it is a good point. I would like hasegawa to produce them because you as the builder would have the option not to transform them but have the option to build all three modes.

One of the best kits I have is the Hobbyfan VF-4, it could be built as fighter or Gerwalk.

If anything market the conversion kit as an option similar to the photo etch or VF-1 weapons set.

[HWR MKII]

I wouldnt mind a pick your own mode kit but just not variable.

[Sdf-1]

How much work there is to make a Gerwalk from Hasegawa Valk? I suppose you need parts fom both kits, at least the hands. Maybe feet too? I think it sucks that Gerwalk mode has been completely forgotten in those kits. It is the most unpopular mode, but I have always thought it is cool.

[Grayson72]

I really can't understand why you'd want a model for transforming, they aren't toys, just build 3 different ones in different versions.

[deadboy]

I really don't understand you people:

There are a lot of transforming kits, see bandai's ; and anyway if you want to be more accurate even in this website there are a lot of customized painted yamato valkyries,

Do you think they are intended to play with too??Maybe you think that who customize a yamato valk. is idiot??

Personally i don't buy a yamato valk. to play with it (that is in fact a fragile object ) but just because i find it beatiful. Let's play children with toys.

If the valkyries on these photos are not perfect, the reason is that they are HAND MADE, and not that the valkyries transformation is impossible.

The difference that you see in the anime drawings, between the battroid and fighter version are due just to the style of drawings that is approximate (as every old anime production), the transformation of the valkyries is absolutely possible without any magic or substitution of parts.

I didn't mean to be 'condecending' but now , as you are condecending , so i am

P.S. Sorry for my english..

[Noyhauser]

I really don't understand you people:

There are a lot of transforming kits, see bandai's ; and anyway if you want to be more accurate even in this website there are a lot of customized painted yamato valkyries,

Do you think they are intended to play with too??Maybe you think that who customize a yamato valk. is idiot??

Personally i don't buy a yamato valk. to play with it (that is in fact a fragile object ) but just because i find it beatiful. Let's play children with toys.

If the valkyries on these photos are not perfect, the reason is that they are HAND MADE, and not that the valkyries transformation is impossible.

The difference that you see in the anime drawings, between the battroid and fighter version are due just to the style of drawings that is approximate (as every old anime production), the transformation of the valkyries is absolutely possible without any magic or substitution of parts.

I didn't mean to be 'condecending' but now , as you are condecending , so i am

P.S. Sorry for my english..

394023[/snapback]

I'm going to repeat this for you a second time, because you aren't getting it.

Any amount of transformation MAKES it a toy for Hasegawa. I suspect that Battroid is the limit of what Hasegawa is comfortable with, and the inclusion of polycaps is probably included because its easier for the construction, rather than a fixed pose model.

A model is intended to be built and never be touched again, Its a display piece, nothing more. Hasegawa as a company that is dedicated to building these and only these; Its models are not intended to be handled once you complete it. Actually Hasegawa was really the leader in the 80s for making models respectable by putting out hyper realistic models that couldn't be handled because of the level of detail. I would argue that there is a difference between the market hasegawa traditionally targets (the classic airplane enthusiast), and the anime market (which builds bandai models, resins, ect). You have to remember that the VF-1 was Hasegawa's first science fiction model, precisely because the VF-1 was so realistic that it could cater to its traditional market base.

Adding transformation to a hasegawa kit makes it less than a model because it is INTENDED that a person will handle the model in its final form at some time. Why have a transformation if you're not going to ever transform the model? Maybe you don't understand, but once most expert modelers are done with a model, it can't be touched or you'll mess up the finish. Thats not what a modeler wants to do.

[Zinjo]

I've had a couple of the transformables and at the time it was cool, since there weren't any toys to do the same thing.

Now I prefer models be models and toys be toys. Kits can be modified in so many ways to "capture a moment", whereas toys are simply that, toys.

They are designed to be transformed over and over without breaking, no model kit can do that.

So as far as I'm concerned, Hasegawa can continue to make amazing Valk kits and Yamato can continue to make amazing Valk toys....

I won't be interested in either a Yamato model or a Haseqawa toy...

Stick to what you do best and let the other guy have his market.

[honneamise]

A transformable Hasegawa kit is unthinkable, it has been stated before - this is a model company not a toy maker. I also love the IDEA that the model on my shelf COULD transform if I wanted it, but I don´t want skinny legs on a Battroid or fat ones on a fighter (and NO, there is NOOOO way to get perfect proportions in all 3 modes - and that has nothing to do with a model being "handmade" - it is just the fact that Macross is anime and the VF-1 design has the anime-magic "built in"!!).

I´ve built the IMAIs in the past, transformed them, broke them and ruined the paint jobs as well. If I ever build another one it will be static. What I want from Hasegawa is a dedicated Gerwalk kit because it is too expensive to buy two kits and it is a waste to throw away all the non-needed parts.

A "choose one out of three modes"-kit is not a good idea - either you will have the proportions issue coming up again or there will be multiple leg/arm/nose parts, resulting in an expensive kit with lots of unneeded spares.

[deadboy]

I really don't understand you people:

There are a lot of transforming kits, see bandai's ; and anyway if you want to be more accurate even in this website there are a lot of customized painted yamato valkyries,

Do you think they are intended to play with too??Maybe you think that who customize a yamato valk. is idiot??

Personally i don't buy a yamato valk. to play with it (that is in fact a fragile object ) but just because i find it beatiful. Let's play children with toys.

If the valkyries on these photos are not perfect, the reason is that they are HAND MADE, and not that the valkyries transformation is impossible.

The difference that you see in the anime drawings, between the battroid and fighter version are due just to the style of drawings that is approximate (as every old anime production), the transformation of the valkyries is absolutely possible without any magic or substitution of parts.

I didn't mean to be 'condecending' but now , as you are condecending , so i am

P.S. Sorry for my english..

394023[/snapback]

I'm going to repeat this for you a second time, because you aren't getting it.

Any amount of transformation MAKES it a toy for Hasegawa. I suspect that Battroid is the limit of what Hasegawa is comfortable with, and the inclusion of polycaps is probably included because its easier for the construction, rather than a fixed pose model.

A model is intended to be built and never be touched again, Its a display piece, nothing more. Hasegawa as a company that is dedicated to building these and only these; Its models are not intended to be handled once you complete it. Actually Hasegawa was really the leader in the 80s for making models respectable by putting out hyper realistic models that couldn't be handled because of the level of detail. I would argue that there is a difference between the market hasegawa traditionally targets (the classic airplane enthusiast), and the anime market (which builds bandai models, resins, ect). You have to remember that the VF-1 was Hasegawa's first science fiction model, precisely because the VF-1 was so realistic that it could cater to its traditional market base.

Adding transformation to a hasegawa kit makes it less than a model because it is INTENDED that a person will handle the model in its final form at some time. Why have a transformation if you're not going to ever transform the model? Maybe you don't understand, but once most expert modelers are done with a model, it can't be touched or you'll mess up the finish. Thats not what a modeler wants to do.

394059[/snapback]

You don't need to behave with me as a teacher cause i don't need it and you are not that.

I understand what you mean about the difference between kits and models but you must try to understand that for the same reason models shouldn't at all be movable or posable cause the principle is the same than transformation.

You still haven't responded me about the customized yamato ones , that in fact got a painting job as much accurate as a model kit and are however transformable.

The grey model in the photos that i put here have perfect proportions and nothing in it is wrong, if you look at it you'll see that it's better proportioned than the 1/48 yamato's that in fact got too long arms and a little too short legs.

P.S. I didn't now all this about licence of bandai on 1/72 transf. kits , i thought that if you got rights on a anime serie you got rights on every mecha inside it.

All these are variable hand made ones; they look beatiful to me

[deadboy]

and these

[deadboy]

that's the point; hasegawa would make a lot of money selling something like that..

[Gundamhead]

Hasagawa would also then have many complaints. People would break the hinges, and complain, and give Hasagawa a bad name. If you look closer at the customized Hasagawa tranformable kits, you will notice obvious hinges, loose parts, big gaps, and even sagging of the whole model. The other part you notice when you look at it is how incredibly fragile it is. I just wish Hasagawa would do Gerwalks myself.

that's the point; hasegawa would make a lot of money selling something like that..

394201[/snapback]

[Kylwell]

I still have some of the original 'transforming' Imai Valks. Nice kits but fragile. Even the true original one with white metal parts was fragile. The Revell re-pop was worse with plastic parts.

Wee, the landing bay doors opened but were poorly detail and the LG was quite chunky. It could transform but only with a spare forward fusalage and lots of patience.

Plastic is only so strong and you can only do so much with it.

I'd rather have a beautful static model than a moveable so-so one.

Just my opinion.

[Chas]

I'm not so sure if they would sell. Sure there are people who would buy them, but you are forgetting that the majority of Hasegawa's customer base are not anime fans. They are aircraft/model enthusiasts.

Hase. has already risked alienating their customer base by even producing the Macross line. To start producing tranforming anime kits a-la Bandai could actually drive away customers who were interested in the company for its traditional model lines and want nothing to do with transforming 'toys' (as thsoe kinds of kits are seen by these people).

There are alot of model companies that Hase. is in competiton with in the traditional model market, and the last thing they want to do is give there customers any reason to buy from the competition.

Now, I know what your thinking. "Not many people, who like Hase. kits, would be stopped from buying a kit that they really want simply because they didn't like another type model that the company produced". But this is an issue of reputation. Hasegawa has a particular reputation that has been hard won. To do anything that could damage that reputation is not something that they will take lightly. And as you have seen Modlers have strong feelings when it comes to the line that seperates models from toys. I for one don't think that Hasegawa is willing to cross that line anytime soon, Some people, I'm sure think they already have and are probably not happy about it.

Thatl being said the only way I can see for Hasegawa to do this (if indeed they have any desire to) is to create a subsidiary company with a different name for their transforming Anime kits. -Much like the way car companies have different makes for their different vehicle lines.

Anyway that's my two cents worth.

Oh, and for the record I wouldn't buy a 'transformation add on kit' or a transforming Hase. kit, I prefer the dedicated modes as they will ALWAYS LOOK BETTER THAN ANY TRANSFORMING KIT, and my kits are built and displayed (usually I pose them how I want them and then fix that pose with a little CA.

[Fly4victory]

But this is an issue of reputation. Hasegawa has a particular reputation that has been hard won. To do anything that could damage that reputation is not something that they will take lightly.

Reputation is a very valid point. A bad airbursh 20 years ago, a junky american car, and the change in the Coca-Cola formula still factors into my Father's purchasing and investing.

I would hate for anything to happen to Hasegawa since they are now in the Battroid market. Thank you for the VF-0's!!!

Yet, I am still amazed at the home made conversions and monster bashes that people build.

[VF5SS]

If hasegawa did do that they wouldnt be able to keep that realistic look. If you get the hase battroid kit you can see there was alot of anime magic involved in the transformation.

393833[/snapback]

Hasegawa Valkyries are incredibly out of proportion. Their fighter mode kits are too thin and DO NOT match the lineart. Their Battroid kits are even worse with their out of proportion intake sections that were made to be large because of the joint system. What they did was adapt the lineart of a VF-1 in fighter mode to fit a more realistic modern day fighter design, which was really stupid because it radically changed the basic look of the machine. Now, because they're Hasegawa people automatically believed that their design was true to the lineart. You can ask David Hinginten about how accurate their F-14s are...

I submit to you all a kitbashed VF-1 fighter that actually looks like the machine was depicted in the lineart and in the show.

Here is the kit.

Notice how it has the proper VF-1 look AND propotions. Also note that the arms are FREAKING TINY like they are on the Hasegawa kit. Hasegawa is so totally wrong its not even funny.

[HWR MKII]

Yours looks nice for the TV SHOW line art. BUT if you look at all the hasegawa kits they are based of the DYRL line art which was alot slimmer and more refined.

I believe SK has signed off on the hase valks himself. it was said somewhere on here.

[honneamise]

If hasegawa did do that they wouldnt be able to keep that realistic look. If you get the hase battroid kit you can see there was alot of anime magic involved in the transformation.

393833[/snapback]

Hasegawa Valkyries are incredibly out of proportion. Their fighter mode kits are too thin and DO NOT match the lineart. Their Battroid kits are even worse with their out of proportion intake sections that were made to be large because of the joint system. What they did was adapt the lineart of a VF-1 in fighter mode to fit a more realistic modern day fighter design, which was really stupid because it radically changed the basic look of the machine. Now, because they're Hasegawa people automatically believed that their design was true to the lineart. You can ask David Hinginten about how accurate their F-14s are...

I submit to you all a kitbashed VF-1 fighter that actually looks like the machine was depicted in the lineart and in the show.

Here is the kit.

Notice how it has the proper VF-1 look AND propotions. Also note that the arms are FREAKING TINY like they are on the Hasegawa kit. Hasegawa is so totally wrong its not even funny.

394236[/snapback]

Different lineart views have different proportions - all models are just interpretations and Hasegawa´s version is just on the "slim" end but not "totally wrong". Take a look at the TV seriesand watch how a slim fighter suddenly gets thick legs while transforming into Battroid. In one scene (ep.2) you can see a Gerwalk hovering - it has EXACTLY the pointed-down "raven"-nose that all the IMAI 1/72 Gerwalk kits have - I don´t like it but you cannot call this wrong.

I partially agree with you on the too massive intakes in Battroid mode, but overall the Hasegawa Battroid doesn´t look wrong - but I like the chunky IMAI Battroid as well because it looked like this in the anime (although this thing could never transform into Fighter without a lot of magic).

By the way the kitbashed VF-1 Fighter looks great to me, it is just on the "chunkier" side - I have no problem imagining it as a Battroid.

All in all I think it is a question of taste after all but I wouldn´t go as far as bashing the Hasegawa kits. They definitely look like VF-1s to me!

[buglips]

I've built the bandai 1J Max, but haven't built a Hase VF kit yet.

I liked the Bandai in fighter mode and gerwalk, but it was awfully skinny and tall in battroid.

That was a 3-way variable kit. It wound up glued permanently as a fighter.

I think the Hase. fighters have serious "sex appeal". They look like they mean business. Maybe they are a little "off" the lineart, or maybe not. Bottom line is they look like they can soar and fight.

Any kit, by any company, is always going to be a compromise. Whether it's tanks, planes, or whatever. There is no such thing as the "perfect kit" for any subject. It's all subjective shades of 'better' or 'worse'.

If you want a variable model, build a bandai. I still see 'em on ebay frequently.

Personally, I'm happy just to have new macross kits coming out after a long dry spell. If new kits want to experiment a little, have at it!

Buy what you like, and don't buy what you don't like. Path to inner peace and happiness.

[Berttt]

deadboy, I think you should give up now.

This was always a "I think Hasegawa should make a variable VF-1 kit - they suck 'cos they don't!" thread.

If Hasegawa can't even make a Battroid Yf-19/21 ar ANY destroids or enemy kits, then why the hell should they put out yet another VF-1 kit that won't sell very well?

Berttt

PS thanks for the link to the 1J, it is amazing what some people can do with those older kits.

Edited April 25, 2006 by Berttt

[Graham]

Hasegawa Valkyries are incredibly out of proportion. Their fighter mode kits are too thin and DO NOT match the lineart.

394236[/snapback]

As much as I love my 5 completed Hasegawa fighter mode display models (VF-0S, VF-0D, VF-22, YF-19 & SV-51), I'd have to agree that the proportions don't always follow the lineart 100%.

The Hasegawa VF-0D, VF-0S and SV-51 are probably the most accurate, but the YF-19 & VF-22 are far too slim when viewed from the side IMO. The same would also apply to the VF-19A and YF-21, which are basically the same kits. I still love them though.

I personally have no interest in seeing variable models from Hasegawa. My experience with variable plastic and resin kits from Imai, Bandai and SHE over the last 2 decades has led me to the conclusion that they are just too fragile and have too many compromises to be worthwhile.

My mindset is if I want something that transforms, I'll buy a toy, I want something purely to display, I'll buy a non-transforming model.

Graham

[deadboy]

Yes, i understand.

But what i think is that fragiles and detailed toys as yamato's macross are not intended to play with , they are not for children but for 'amateurs', they are intended for displaing.

The reason for they are not kits is , i think, that they are made for people who are not skilled modeler ( don't want, or haven't time to build one), but want as well some beatiful models to display, spending obviously much more money.

[Sdf-1]

I wouldn't ever compare Yamatos and Hasegawas. Yamatos are VERY rough compared to ultra fine Hasegawas. Since they are toys. They are nice, don't get me wrong, but not comparable to Hasegawas or any model kits.

Oh, the reason why Yamatos are not kits, is that they are toys. Simple as that.

And if you want 1/48 model kit Valkyrie, you are spending a lot more money for that than a Yamato...

Edited April 26, 2006 by Sdf-1

[buglips]

The company reputation point is worth repeating too.

When I found out about the Hasegawa valkyries it went kind of like this:

"Dude, did you know there's new valkyries coming out?"

Me: "Meh" *shrug*

"They're done by Hasegawa"

Me: "Really?" *perks up*

So for me hasegawa's reputation sealed the deal and made me curious (very curious) to find out more. Still haven't bought one yet, but my lack of hobby fundings doesn't mitigate the fact that the mention of Hasegawa increased my interest substantially.

So reputation counts for a lot, as mentioned.

[Jarrod]

So, I guess I'll throw my opinion out there...that is my grey variable Hase VF-1 deadboy is posting pics of afterall.

I'd personally love any variable kit of any VF with the quality and detail that the Hasegawa's have . Granted I'm a huge Gun-pla fan and have been building all kinds of plastic kits for as long as I can remember, so I may be biased, but I do have some good reasons:

First and foremost, attention to detail/proportions. I love my Yamato's, but a good scale model, by definition, will generally just have more/better detailing. And I do think the Hase's look better proportioned to my eyes(of course they don't have to worry about the issues of transformation. But case in point, simply the shape of the lower legs of the Hase kits versus a Yammie 1/60).....plus you don't have to buy aftermarket decals:)

Second, I personally think 1/72 is a near perfect scale for a Valkyrie. I do think the 1/48 Yamato is the most perfect rendition of the VF-1 out there, but a number of them just take up too much space.

Third, price. I figure, based on equivalent plastic kits out there, a good, MG-quality variable VF kit would be no more than 4-5000 yen, which to me is a good thing.

Finally, what can I say, I love the building process of a kit, I like to see how the engineering is done, I love to actually put togther the working mechanics When I got my MG Zeta V2 I had a total geek-fest marveling at how Bandai managed to out-do themselves yet again on another kit.

All that being said, I don't know if I'd really like to see the kit come from Hasegawa. They might produce a wonderful static fighter mode kit...but their work with poseable, snap-together robot kits could still use some practice, in my opinion. They have a certain feel of fragility to them that I'm not too fond of. Of course I'd buy one instantly, but I'd much rather see it come from Bandai honestly.

Jarrod