I Think The Vf-1's Design Was Suspicously

[Phalanx]

OK, here's the deal with this topic. I remember 2 years ago when Macross Milcomnet was still up, I was looking at that one VF-1 that had that Blue Angels paint scheme to it and from the side view, the VF-1 looks somewhat very close to an F-18 Hornet. So I had to ask, do you think that SK was also inspired by the F-18 as well? Aside from the general fact that the VF-1 was inspired by the F-14,the side view of it does look somewhat similar to the side of an F-18 and the way how the vertical fins of the VF-1 are close and slighlty angled outward just like the vertical fins of the F-18 from the front view. Since the F-18 came out in 1976 and Macross came out in 1982, I feel that SK drew some inspiration from the design of the F-18 and tried to incorporate it into the VF-1. So now the question is, is it me or I'm the only one who noticed this?

[Nied]

Kawamori studied as an aerospace engineer in college. At the time he designed the VF-1 angled tail fins were considered good design practice in aerospace cirlces as they allow for better control at high angles of attack (they still are). Other than the angled fins I don't see much similarities though.

[Seto Kaiba]

I'm not seeing much in the way of similarity to the F/A-18 aside from the angle of the tail. Other than that it's pretty much all F-14. One element in common does not a design relationship make.

Edited April 20, 2006 by Seto Kaiba

[Phalanx]

I'm fully aware of fact the VF-1 still resembles an F-14 in terms of shape and the trademark charcteristics (i.e variable geometry sweeping wings and spaced out twin engines) on the overall if you look at from the top, bottom or at an angle but like I said before, from the side view of the fighter, it pretty much resembles the side view of an F-18 IMHO. I'm too lazy to go find pictures to show the comparison and resemblance between the two. However, I may be wrong and that the side of the VF-1 may have been coincidental with the F-18

[David Hingtgen]

The thing is, the VF-1 has a ton of small, specific details that are almost direct copies of F-14 parts.

IMHO the intakes and wing glove alone preclude most any F-18 elements--two angled, widely separated intakes with a tunnel between them mounted below the glove right up front is a completely different design from round intakes on the sides of the fuselage mounted well aft behind a LERX that lead to side-by-side engines.

The VF-1 has no spine nor LERX. Also it has the F-14's beavertail, which is incredibly distinctive and makes the entire rear fuselage like an F-14's.

I just don't see any F-18 in the VF-1 from any angle except POSSIBLY having the fins mounted a bit forward from normal.

[Seto Kaiba]

I'm fully aware of fact the VF-1 still resembles an F-14 in terms of shape and the trademark charcteristics (i.e variable geometry sweeping wings and spaced out twin engines) on the overall if you look at from the top, bottom or at an angle but like I said before, from the side view of the fighter, it pretty much resembles the side view of an F-18 IMHO. I'm too lazy to go find pictures to show the comparison and resemblance between the two. However, I may be wrong and that the side of the VF-1 may have been coincidental with the F-18

392742[/snapback]

After a much closer examination, I find nothing in common between the F/A-18 and the VF-1. The angle of the tail is one thing, but that is neither unique to the F/A-18, nor distinctive enough to merit calling them related designs. It's simply an efficiant aircraft design. The overall shape of the VF-1's body, as well as the vast majority of the details are lifted straight from the F-14. I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that the F/A-18 was involved, but even looking at it from the side, I don't see this similarity that you're on about. A lot of fighters look alike, that doesn't mean that the F/A-18 was partial inspiration for the VF-1.

You're grasping at straws here.

[Nightbat]

Wasn't the nose taken from an F-111 (sez da airplane n00b)

[Phalanx]

I see what youre saying Dave about the VF-1 using small specific parts to resemble the F-14 and I do agree with you about it slightly resembling the F-18 a little more from the side if the vertical fins were slightly shifted forward from it's normal position and in addition to that, if the nose cone was more drooped down rather than curving upward slightly, one way or the other, it still looks somewhat like an F-18 jfirst hand just from the SIDES strictly without key details of the F-18 with the LERX you stated IMO. However, I thinks it 's best if you think of this as being somewhat on par with optical illusions. Like that famous old lady and the beautiful mistress where from an angle it appears that she's looking away from us but if you look closer, we see the old lady where the girls chin makes up her nose and her ears make up the old lady's eyes. If that example won't work then here's this. One good example to explain my reasoning would be the 2000-2006 Toyota Celica's. From the side view and from an angle, it resembles a lamborghini only with a little more height, but from the front and rear of the car, it looks original. That's the point I was trying to prove with the VF-1. And once again, I know that the VF-1 still looks like an F-14 from many angles except from the side possibly IMO. Also, it was just a hypothetical possibitly that the VF-1 SOMEWHAT resembles the F-18 from the SIDES, NOT a guarantee because I know that I may be wrong.

Edited April 20, 2006 by Phalanx

[JB0]

Also, it was just a hypothetical possibitly that the VF-1 SOMEWHAT resembles the F-18 from the SIDES, NOT a guarantee because I know that I may be wrong.

392759[/snapback]

*re-reads first post*

Actualy it was a hypothesis that BECAUSE it looked like an F18 from the sides it might have been based in part on the F-18.

Not just a possiblity that the side profiles might look similar.

[azrael]

Even looking at the side views, I still don't see anything really close between a VF-1 and a F/A-18. The F-14 and the F/A-18 share the same maker which may influence thinking but I don't see much. Sorry.

BTW...car makers always copy each other so I don't see how that works in this.

[Hurin]

They look similar in that they are both fighter jets. . . moving on. . .

[David Hingtgen]

From the side, you mainly see the angled intakes and the engine nacelles---neither of which the F-18 even has. And the overall profile of the nose is F-111, as has been discussed. Which isn't surprising since the F-14 really is the F-111B hastily redesigned for air combat with a bunch of A-6 parts. THAT's a project for tonight--look for A-6 stuff in the VF-1.

[Rocket Punch]

JUST STOP IT!!! STOP FIGHTING!!! Can't you see this thread is tearing us apart?!!!

[David Hingtgen]

We've got TWO vice-mods participating, we'll keep things in check.

[Zentrandude]

We've got TWO vice-mods participating, we'll keep things in check. 

392841[/snapback]

Famous last words

I would think the f-15 may have some parts simular to the -1 than the f-18 but I never one to realy care enough to do a detailed check and inventory of all its parts to see its true.

[Phalanx]

In the end, I'll just simply say that it maybe a coincidence that the side of the VF-1 looks somewhat like a the F-18 because when I think about my favorite VF, the Valkyrie 2, I noticed that the side view of this fighter coincidentely looks somewhat like the side of an SU-27 but I won't say that the creator of this Valk was inspired by the Su-27 to make the side of the VF-2SS resemble it. Seto, thanx for making that point earlier about how one design of an aircraft doesn't mean it was inspired by another.

[Rocket Punch]

Hey Phalanx, just curious, what college do you attend?

[Phalanx]

Bowie State University in Bowie MD. A historical and predominately black college. I don't like it there because it doesn't offer alot of classes to major in. I wanted aerospace engineering but this college lacks it but there's alot of sexy black girls up in there which is the only thing I honestly like about it and the fact that we have a KFC and Pizza Hut Express on campus.

[reddsun1]

Hmm: KFC, Pizza Hut, and lots of thick, sexy sistas. Sounds like all the prerequisites for broadening your horizons, nurturing your mind, expanding your knowledge and all that good stuff.

But in regard to similarities? I too have sometimes thought that the outline shape of the nose of the VF-1 bears vague similarities to the F/A-18 and/or the F-111 [but only from in front of the canopy forward] from the side profile, but that's about it. If anything, I'd say the SV-51 from MZero looks "influenced" by the F/A-18, albeit much elongated/enlarged/modified.

Edited April 21, 2006 by reddsun1

[Rocket Punch]

I suppose the next logical question would be, bubble-butt girls aside, "Why don't you just go to a college that offers Aerospace Engineering?" and, "Do they have bars on campus?"

[Phalanx]

I suppose the next logical question would be, bubble-butt girls aside, "Why don't you just go to a college that offers Aerospace Engineering?" and, "Do they have bars on campus?"

392877[/snapback]

That's what I'm trying to do for my next semester in which I plan on actually becoming a game designer whereas being an aerospace engineering was an alternative for me if I couldn't make in the gaming Industry. I wanted to go to University of Maryland of College Park, but I didn't have the grades to get in but I plan on going to Devry University to get my bachelor's degree in game design and no, we don't have a bar on campus but we do have a relaxing room where you can watch TV play, SSMB on GameCube, play Tekken and even better, smoke on campus, no marijuana allowed. P.S I don't smoke either

[David Hingtgen]

Ok, we're now completely OT. Back to discussing the VF-1 or take it to PM please.

[Phalanx]

Sorry about that Dave. I was just telling a little bit more about myself if you don't mind but we'll go back to the topic like you politely asked. Once again, Seto pointed out that just because the design of one aircraft resembles another it doesn't necessarily mean that it was inspirational and since that was the case I had to resort to believing my other hypothesis that the side of the VF-1 was strictly coincidental since that's the way how aerospace designers's aircraft turn out when they design their aircraft. I'll even consider this possibility that the reason why some planes may use the design aesthetics of another is due to the fact that it may be useful to better improve the airflow or performance dynamics of the aircraft. To prove this, I'll use the design concept of the MIG-15 and the F-86. Back in the 50's when cold war broke out, the deadliest and succesful fighter at the time was the MIG-15. When the U.S noticed that their fighters (don't remember which one'e we used) were ineffective against the MIG-15, the U.S had to resort to taking the design of the MIG-15 to create the F-86 because it had the manueverability and performance needed to domnate the skies. I't best if you think of it logically from the designers perspective in the Macross series where the VF-11' s side looks a liitle bit like the SU-27 and that Shinsei Industries might have logically made it resemble the side of it because it was aerodynamically stable thanks to it's LERX. That's my hypothesis.

Edited April 21, 2006 by Phalanx

[azrael]

...I't best if you think of it logically from the designers perspective in the Macross series where the VF-11' s side looks a liitle bit like the SU-27 and...

392994[/snapback]

Ummm....the VF-11's design inspiration came from various Sukhoi designs (primarily the Su-27 and variants), if you didn't know.

http://macross.anime.net/mecha/united_nati...vf11/index.html

[Phalanx]

Well Azrael, I already knew that the VF-11's design was inspired by most of the Flanker variants, particular the SU-33 and up since they have canards but I said somewhat, meaning moderatley or close to the side of the Su-27 but NOT 100% exactly like the Su-33. Same thing with the YF-21/VF-22, they were inspired by the Blackwidow II, but they don't look 100% exactly like it from the side or top angles but about 85-90% close to it. I didn't want to throw percentages in to the mix but if it helps then so be it. But quickly going back to the VF-22, since this fighter was inpsired by one design in particular,the YF-23, we can't say that it resembles any other comtemporary aircraft as I point out that somebody on this board told me that SK's VF-22 was inspired by the SU-27 variants as well but I see no evidence of this in the VF-22's design. As for the VF-1, we already know that it was primarily inspired by the F-14 as it's design aesthetics pretty much yell out to all of us that it was and that some of you guys are beginning to doubt that the VF-1 doesn't resemble the side of an F-18 but I think that it has something to do with the fact that you guys are concentrating on specific and distinct parts of the fighter and not on the outside shape where David said that the VF-1 has no LERX and possibly in addition to that, it doesn't have those semi-circle shaped air intakes the Hornet has. I was able to determine and assume that the VF-1's side looks like the F-18's just by focusing mainly on it's outside shape and not on specific areas and I'm convinced that if you guys do the same, you'll notice it more.

Edited April 21, 2006 by Phalanx

[F360°]

I'm sorry, but base on the Overall Outside shape of the VF-1 it looks nothing like the F-18.

[ghostryder]

The only unique similarity I see between the VF-1 and an F-18 is how the canopy AND tailfins are positioned somewhat closer to the center of the plane, compared to most other fighters. The nose profile screams F-111. The rest is all Tomcat.

[Phalanx]

If you ask me and when I think about it some, I really notice more the F-18 out of the VF-1 based from the nose and canopy area and it's good that a few of you are beginning to notice the resemblance between the sides of the fighter based on what I stated in my topic starting paragraph. I was expecting that everyone else like Seto would notice it through thorough observation of the outside shape only. So now my hypothesis suddenly becomes that the VF-1 resembles the F-18 from the nose and canopy area only, but I think I'm right about the F-18 possbily being SK's inspiration for partially integrating it's nose and canopy and what I forgot to add, it's fuselage in the side design of the VF-1

Edited April 21, 2006 by Phalanx

[Phalanx]

I'm sorry, but base on the Overall Outside shape of the VF-1 it looks nothing like the F-18.

393076[/snapback]

No disprespect to you F360, but where you looking at it from the side only like I recommended to everyone else?

[F360°]

I'm sorry, but base on the Overall Outside shape of the VF-1 it looks nothing like the F-18.

393076[/snapback]

No disprespect to you F360, but where you looking at it from the side only like I recommended to everyone else?

393148[/snapback]

no, of course not. If I judge only by the 1 prespective then everything could look similar. I look at the overall pic or nothing at all, because a VF-1 is a whole VF-1 and not just a flat onesided shape of a VF-1. And even at the side only I still don't really see it. I guess if I focus really hard some of the parts will look like from F-18, but If I focus really hard, I can probably find it similar to other Fighters too..

You are not wrong in anyway,, but I just happen to sees things differently.

The only fighter that I consider to look closest to a F-18 is the SV-51 even though it was base on something else.

[Phalanx]

I'm sorry, but base on the Overall Outside shape of the VF-1 it looks nothing like the F-18.

393076[/snapback]

No disprespect to you F360, but where you looking at it from the side only like I recommended to everyone else?

393148[/snapback]

no, of course not. If I judge only by the 1 prespective then everything could look similar. I look at the overall pic or nothing at all, because a VF-1 is a whole VF-1 and not just a flat onesided shape of a VF-1. And even at the side only I still don't really see it. I guess if I focus really hard some of the parts will look like from F-18, but If I focus really hard, I can probably find it similar to other Fighters too..

You are not wrong in anyway,, but I just happen to sees things differently.

The only fighter that I consider to look closest to a F-18 is the SV-51 even though it was base on something else.

393170[/snapback]

You;re right about the SV-51 resembling the F-18 even though it looks like something else. I noticed that too when I looked at that pic Evirus posted in my other topic. It's OK that you see it differently but the main reason why I also started this topic is to make sure that I'm not crazy and seeing things when I say that the VF-1 looks like the F-18 from the side.

[David Hingtgen]

Agreeing with what F360 said---going only by the outline of the profile is misleading IMHO--I mean, in sheer "silhouette", a AGM-86 cruise missile and L-1011 airliner are pretty close, since by only using the outline you can "ignore" any sort of three-dimensional issue or things in the horizontal plane.

Example:

F-16 and F-16XL. Almost identical profiles, but very different planes due to one being a tailless delta. Of course they are very similar, but by going solely by their profile you get the impression that they're 99% structurally identical, when really they only share fuselage parts and v.stab.

Or, for an extreme example, from head-on, a bowling ball and a cheap pen are utterly identical--perfect circles.

Edited April 22, 2006 by David Hingtgen

[honneamise]

Based on viewing it from all angles, I can see no resemblance between VF-1 and F-18 noses. Some earlier model kits have a slightly more F-18-like shaped nose but again only from the side, if you take the Hasegawa nose as a reference, the upper side is perfectly straight (unlike the F-18) and the lower profile is too bulged/ S-shaped, as has been said similar to the F-111 but not the F-18. If you take a cross section of the nose, all similarities end - it is almost triangular and flattened at the top (again: based on Hasegawa/ H.Tenjin art but this seems to be canon)!

As for the narrow base and more forward mounted position of the tailfins, I don´t think Kawamori was inspired by the F-18 here, these features are simply determined by the shape and position of the "backpack rucksack" that supports them. The backpack has to fit between the legs in fighter mode so it has to be kinda narrow plus if the fins were located further aft they´d sit too high in Battroid mode, sticking out higher than the head and obscuring rearward view.

That´s why it looks that way IMO. Had Kawamori designed leg-mounted tail fins, the VF-1 would look even more similar to a F-14. But remember the F-14 has horizontal elevators and the VF-1 is lacking them, so the more angled vertical fins, combined with the rather big (and angled) stabilizer fins on the legs, sort of makes up for the lack of "proper" horizontal fins, at least from a "cosmetical" point of view.

[Black Valkyrie]

I don`t about you guys but I find the Legioss nosecone to the cockpit and the air intakes resembles more the F-18 .

[honneamise]

I don`t about you guys but I find the Legioss nosecone to the cockpit and the air intakes resembles more the F-18 .

394184[/snapback]

Absolutely!!!