What Vf's Do Other Countries Use On Earth

[Phalanx]

I was thinking about this as I was coming home from college today so I just wanted to know what kind of VF's do other countries on Earth use outside of Macross. Since you always see them as part of colonial air forces or part of space wing squadrons in the U.N Spacy, I never understood why SK hasn't shown the militia of other countries on Earth. The only countries that I know that use VF's were Russia with their SV-51's in Macross Zero. What's your opinion on this.

[evirus]

well... theres a valk made by the anti UN forces, give me a sec to get some screenshots

[Phalanx]

Wait evirus, is it that Pheyos VF from Macross VF-X 2? If so, that's not what I was talking about or unless it's something I have never seen before.

[evirus]

its from macross zero

Edited April 18, 2006 by evirus

[Penguin]

As far as we've seen, there are no "other countries" on Earth, post-Space War I. With humanity reduced to a tiny fraction of its prewar population, the UN Government is the Earth's only government.

The SV-51 isn't Russian, but in fact an Anti-UN design (although clearly inspired by Russian design aesthetics as opposed to the UN's western/American look).

The closest we get to "countries" are the colonies, although they all still answer to the UN Government, so perhaps province/state would be a better analogy than country.

So far, we have not seen any non-UN-manufactured VF designs in the canonical Macross universe. There are civilian-sale VF models, but they too are based on original UN designs. Macross II had the SNN civilian Valkyrie, but as far as I've seen, no other human group produces unique VF designs.

[Rocket Punch]

As far as we've seen, there are no "other countries" on Earth, post-Space War I. With humanity reduced to a tiny fraction of its prewar population, the UN Government is the Earth's only government.

392079[/snapback]

What the Penguin said.

[Nied]

There are some signs that individual countries still operate separate force though (one of the reconstruction episodes features a wrecked destroid with US Army markings on it). I imagine that a large chunk of individual countries militaries have been subsumed by the UN Spacy, but that they still operate some independent forces as well. Given what we see, they most likely buy standard Spacy equipment.

[Phalanx]

When I think about there's a possibility that Japan may hypothetically may have VF-11's and VF-19's as part of their new ASDF division since Shinsei Industries is a Japanese based aerospace company and the U.S.A may have YF-21\VF-22's since I believe that General Galaxy is an American aerospace company. However, I do think that all countries around the world that are still intact may all share the same VF's that the UN Spacy produce and obviously don't produce their own original ones

[azrael]

Shinsei Industries or General Galaxy would be hard to distinguish post-2012 (In fact, General Galaxy was formed in 2017 and Shinsei Industries was a merger between Shinnakasu Industry's and Stonewell Bellcom's aircraft divisions). Companies like them would have expanded into space, given the now galactic economy. Therefore, post-2012, we can no longer say any particular company is based in any particular country nor can we say any particular fighter is tied to any one country.

Edited April 18, 2006 by azrael

[Cabbit Commando]

Well this is my 2 cents,

Post Space War 1 the only survivors where on the SDF-Macross, One or both Grand Cannons, the Moon bases & some satellites. About 1 million humans in all if I remember right. Most of the people you see in the cities after the earth gets zapped are Zentradi & clones. It would seem that the surviving humans have been settles near the Macross in what was once Alaska & Canada.

If I had to hazard a guess, The single largest National group would be Japanese given what I took to be south Ataria Islands proximity to Japan & the fact that Macross was animated in Japan

I chalk up the US ARMY on the Thomahawks to be either Left overs from Alaska base & or old salvage from Bodolza's little fireworks display.

Pre SW1 I think the only Canon Variable Fighters Are the UN & Anti-UN forces.

The only countries able to make Variable Fighters are the ones with access to Over Technology or the ability to get it thru spying.

The "Loyal" UN countries would likly be using Valks while the Ant-UN forces would be using the SV-51.

What countries were part of the Anti-UN? Dunno, they never said exactly.

The Anti-UN foreces seemed to use Soviet/Russian stuff. I believe the SV-51 used some Israeli tech which wouldn't surprise me given the general relations between the UN & Israel. (The last UN resolution passed before Bodolza lit the Earth up was probably to say it was Israel's fault ) OK No more Politics I'll be good.

Japan, team players that they are, probably used the Valks.

Well, that's some of what I think probably went on.

[Dax415]

I know this is off topic but could someone refresh my memory about the Grand Cannons. I always thought there was only one.

Well this is my 2 cents,

Post Space War 1 the only survivors where on the SDF-Macross, One or both Grand Cannons, the Moon bases & some satellites.  About 1 million humans in all if I remember right.  Most of the people you see in the cities after the earth gets zapped are Zentradi & clones.  It would seem that the surviving humans have been settles near the Macross in what was once Alaska & Canada.

If I had to hazard a guess, The single largest National group would be Japanese given what I took to be south Ataria Islands proximity to Japan & the fact that Macross was animated in Japan

I chalk up the US ARMY on the Thomahawks to be either Left overs from Alaska base & or old salvage from Bodolza's little fireworks display.

Pre SW1 I think the only Canon Variable Fighters Are the UN & Anti-UN forces.

The only countries able to make Variable Fighters are the ones with access to Over Technology or the ability to get it thru spying.

The "Loyal" UN countries would likly be using Valks while the Ant-UN forces would be using the SV-51.

What countries were part of the Anti-UN? Dunno, they never said exactly.

The Anti-UN foreces seemed to use Soviet/Russian stuff.  I believe the SV-51 used some Israeli tech which wouldn't surprise me given the general relations between the UN & Israel. (The last UN resolution passed before Bodolza lit the Earth up was probably to say it was Israel's fault   )  OK No more Politics I'll be good.

Japan, team players that they are, probably used the Valks.

Well, that's some of what I think probably went on.

392191[/snapback]

[JB0]

I know this is off topic but could someone refresh my memory about the Grand Cannons.  I always thought there was only one.

There was one functional Cannon. That was the Alaska Base one.

There were 4 other cannons being built around Earth and on the Moon.

http://macross.anime.net/story/atlas/index.html

Search for Grand Cannon to find the specific locations of each one.

[Zinjo]

I know this is off topic but could someone refresh my memory about the Grand Cannons.  I always thought there was only one.

There was one functional Cannon. That was the Alaska Base one.

There were 4 other cannons being built around Earth and on the Moon.

http://macross.anime.net/story/atlas/index.html

Search for Grand Cannon to find the specific locations of each one.

392266[/snapback]

Well it would make sense for them to chose to build canons off planet to avoid a similar retaliatory strikes experienced during SW1. However after the series no mention is made of them again.

As for the Valks and SV-51's, I'd suspect the AUN Alliance would likely consist of Many Eastern European countries, Russia, China, Middle Eastern nations, and Germany (mostly for the reason that the Germans are the only nation in that group with the technical expertise to be able to design and build a variable fighter in a short period of time).

Edited April 19, 2006 by Zinjo

[KingNor]

As far as i could tell, the none of the current government states survived the initial Zentradi attack.

The closest thing to a Government after SpaceWar1 looked to be UNSpacey. but even they seemed more intrested in police type work than actual Government work.

Seems to me that life for humans on earth was set back several decades and citys reverted to a sort of City State setup with UNSpacey running around trying to keep people from killing each other.

None of the shows really get into detail about any of that though. My personal opinion is that after the war, property on earth became first come first serve.

If a city state came across a few destroids they used them for civil defence/police work. Valks seem like they all stayed in the hands of the UNSpacy force.

Personally I exclude those silly MacZero valks from existence when considering the SDFMacross serise. Either they can go off into MacrossII lala land or they were all destroyed before the Zentradi attack, In anycase i doubt anyone was operating them post SpaceWar1.

Thats my take on it. Like i said though, there isn't a whole lot of info into what was going on. I vote for Valks being used solely by UNSpacey.

[JB0]

I know this is off topic but could someone refresh my memory about the Grand Cannons.  I always thought there was only one.

There was one functional Cannon. That was the Alaska Base one.

There were 4 other cannons being built around Earth and on the Moon.

http://macross.anime.net/story/atlas/index.html

Search for Grand Cannon to find the specific locations of each one.

392266[/snapback]

Well it would make sense for them to chose to build canons off planet to avoid a similar retaliatory strikes experienced during SW1.

Not really.

A. An off-planet cannon can still be bombarded easily.

B. Each cannon is very limited in where it can fire. An off-planet cannonWill be a lot less useful in terrestrial defense. I think Cannon Luna was intended for defense of the lunar colony and shipyard.

C. The Grand Cannon is gravitationally fueled. A lunar cannon will either be much less powerful, or far slower-firing. Slower firing = a lot more time to detect the energy build-up.

However after the series no mention is made of them again.

The concept was probably retired.

Post-war, humanity had limited resources, and the primary focuses were on rebuilding civilization and spreading it.

After that they apparently decided to go for a more versatile solution and laced the sky with lots of smaller satellite weapons.

[Zinjo]

Not really.

A. An off-planet cannon can still be bombarded easily.

True, but with much less "collateral damage" to the civilian population centers.

B. Each cannon is very limited in where it can fire. An off-planet cannonWill be a lot less useful in terrestrial defense. I think Cannon Luna was intended for defense of the lunar colony and shipyard.

C. The Grand Cannon is gravitationally fueled. A lunar cannon will either be much less powerful, or far slower-firing. Slower firing = a lot more time to detect the energy build-up.

Really?

I always though it was fuelled by a Super Dimension reactor of some type. That is the only thing I was aware of that was capable of generating such a high energy output that came from a Macross type energy cannon.

However after the series no mention is made of them again.

The concept was probably retired.

Post-war, humanity had limited resources, and the primary focuses were on rebuilding civilization and spreading it.

After that they apparently decided to go for a more versatile solution and laced the sky with lots of smaller satellite weapons.

393413[/snapback]

We also don't know how many orbiting capital ships were fitted with Macross Cannons. We know the colony ships had them, but little else is mentioned.

[azrael]

Really?

I always though it was fuelled by a Super Dimension reactor of some type.  That is the only thing I was aware of that was capable of generating such a high energy output that came from a Macross type energy cannon.

Really.

http://macross.anime.net//mecha/united_nat...randCannon.html

[JB0]

Not really.

A. An off-planet cannon can still be bombarded easily.

True, but with much less "collateral damage" to the civilian population centers.

Personally speaking, I'd be hesitant to build a population center near anything emitting such high levels of energy in the first place. So moot point.

However after the series no mention is made of them again.

The concept was probably retired.

Post-war, humanity had limited resources, and the primary focuses were on rebuilding civilization and spreading it.

After that they apparently decided to go for a more versatile solution and laced the sky with lots of smaller satellite weapons.

393413[/snapback]

We also don't know how many orbiting capital ships were fitted with Macross Cannons. We know the colony ships had them, but little else is mentioned.

393474[/snapback]

To be fair, a ship-mounted cannon, even a high-powered one like on the Macross is little more than a pop gun next to a Grand Cannon.

The blast from a Grand Cannon is just obscene. It's widely dispersed, sustained for a very long time, and does as much (or more) damage "per hit" as the brief and tightly-focused pulse of the Macross' cannon. So while you might can kill 2 or 3 ships with a shot from the Macross, the GC can, with a suitably target-rich environment, kill almost 800 million ships in one shot(check the capital ship counts http://macross.anime.net/mecha/zentradi/index.html ).

I REALLY wish there were some official statistics for the energy discharge on these things.

All we really know is that Battle 7's main cannon delivers less damage than a thermonuclear weapon of unknown yield. But that's not really a useful datum, because we don't know the yield on either weapon.

It's a safe bet the Mac7 cannon is MUCH less powerful, since the cannon shot is focused and the thermonuclear explosion isn't(since virtually all the energy discharged goes into the target area instead of being released in all directions equally, a focused weapon will have far more damage capacity than an unfocused one of equivallent energy release).

It's also a reasonable assumption that both weapons are far more powerful than the current world record of about 50 megatons set by a russian thermonuclear test(as a useful reference, the data from that test shows a 50 megaton blast as the right size blast to destroy a reasonably-sized city with one shot). 1 megaton = 4.187 petajoules, if anyone cares.

But that only sets an energy floor, and a pretty low one for the scale we're talking about. It'd be more productive to figure out how much water was vaporized in the automated firing of the SDF-1 Macross' cannon. I think that'd raise the floor signifigantly, but I don't have the math skills to work out the volume.

Edited April 23, 2006 by JB0

[Zinjo]

Not really.

A. An off-planet cannon can still be bombarded easily.

True, but with much less "collateral damage" to the civilian population centers.

Personally speaking, I'd be hesitant to build a population center near anything emitting such high levels of energy in the first place. So moot point.

My point was rather that any planetary based weapon of that magnitude would result in the same global bombardment the Zents inflicted on the Earth the first time.

They didn't waste much time "looking" for the cannon, but rather opted to raze the planet's surface to wipe out the existing weapon and most likely to take out any others that could be preparing to fire....

.....................

Hmmm, with the Grand Cannon gravity based, it kind of gives one a glimpse into the nature of Super Dimensional technology...

Edited April 23, 2006 by Zinjo

[vanpang]

Actually, I think in one of Macross 7 "Dynamite 7" special (the one with the space whales if I am not wrong), there are VFs that was sold to an alien Nation. I could not remember name of the alien race but they look like elves.

[azrael]

It's a safe bet the Mac7 cannon is MUCH less powerful, since the cannon shot is focused and the thermonuclear explosion isn't(since virtually all the energy discharged goes into the target area instead of being released in all directions equally, a focused weapon will have far more damage capacity than an unfocused one of equivallent energy release).

The cannon shot can be dispersed as seen in by Macross-13 in VF-X 2.

Actually, I think in one of Macross 7 "Dynamite 7" special (the one with the space whales if I am not wrong), there are VFs that was sold to an alien Nation. I could not remember name of the alien race but they look like elves.

Zolans. By MD7's time, many planetary security forces use VFs. Depending on how deep your wallet is and how back-water your planet is, figures into the VFs you can get.

[JB0]

Not really.

A. An off-planet cannon can still be bombarded easily.

True, but with much less "collateral damage" to the civilian population centers.

Personally speaking, I'd be hesitant to build a population center near anything emitting such high levels of energy in the first place. So moot point.

My point was rather that any planetary based weapon of that magnitude would result in the same global bombardment the Zents inflicted on the Earth the first time.

They didn't waste much time "looking" for the cannon, but rather opted to raze the planet's surface to wipe out the existing weapon and most likely to take out any others that could be preparing to fire....

Ummmm... they didn't care about our weaponry. They bombarded us to destroy our civilization. That was kind of a major point of the story.

It's a safe bet the Mac7 cannon is MUCH less powerful, since the cannon shot is focused and the thermonuclear explosion isn't(since virtually all the energy discharged goes into the target area instead of being released in all directions equally, a focused weapon will have far more damage capacity than an unfocused one of equivallent energy release).

The cannon shot can be dispersed as seen in by Macross-13 in VF-X 2.

It has variable spread? Interesting, very interesting.

Still... it's in a cone, not a sphere. It's more focused than a spherical explosion of equal power at any given spread, though a nuclear weapon could be sent INTO the enemy area, getting everything closer to the blast.

But the blast I was using for comparison was the Mac7's shot on the Gabil/Grabil fusion, which dumped everything it could into a cylindtrical beam on one target.

That sets a lower threshold on Mac7-era nuclear weaponry, because they HAVE to deliver more than the maximum possible cannon yield, or they aren't a viable escalation.

Given they bombed the protodevlin's home cave instead of actively trying to bury the bomb in someone's chest(which probably wouldn't work because they can't pierce the PD's hide with anything short of a thermonuclear explosion), any given protodevlin will absorb very little of the attack. Except Gepelnitch, as the bomb was wedged in his/her/it's "cocoon," and he could have possibly taken an entire hemisphere of the blast if he hadn't folded the bomb into the Stargazer.

If we assume Gepelnitch, as ringleader, was the primary target(not likely since they didn't know what G looked like, making targeting him difficult) and that they believed big G to be of similar durability to the Grabil/Gravil fusion(more likely), that means 50% of a thermonuke blast is greater than 100% of the Mac7 cannon's already signifigant output.

More likely, they were planning on seriously wounding everything in the cave with one bomb, which greatly reduces how much any one PD will be hit with, and seriously upscales the damage yield estimate.

In short...

BIG bombs...

[Zinjo]

Ummmm... they didn't care about our weaponry. They bombarded us to destroy our civilization. That was kind of a major point of the story.

394377[/snapback]

I could be wrong, but I dont' recall any dialogue to that specific affect....

The resulting destruction of the planetary civilization was the collateral damage of the bombardment.

If they were being fired upon by the moon cannon, would they have fired on the Earth first? I think not...

[Rocket Punch]

Ummmm... they didn't care about our weaponry. They bombarded us to destroy our civilization. That was kind of a major point of the story.

394377[/snapback]

I could be wrong, but I dont' recall any dialogue to that specific affect....

The resulting destruction of the planetary civilization was the collateral damage of the bombardment.

If they were being fired upon by the moon cannon, would they have fired on the Earth first? I think not...

396046[/snapback]

In Episode 25: Virgin Road Bodolza specifically orders the destruction of the planet Earth and the Macross.

[JB0]

Ummmm... they didn't care about our weaponry. They bombarded us to destroy our civilization. That was kind of a major point of the story.

394377[/snapback]

I could be wrong, but I dont' recall any dialogue to that specific affect....

It's in there.

Bodolzaa only came over because his underlings were all contaminated by culture. That's also why Britai, Lap'lamiz, and Kamjin(maybe) joined forces with us to defeat Bodolzaa. He was going to kill them all anyways, so they had nothing to lose.

But their original interest at the beginning of the show that kept them from the Macross to smitherens and getting on with life was that we had reaction weaponry. They wanted them for themselves, so capturing the Macross seemed like a good idea.

So our weapons DID gain their attention, but it was to capture, not destroy.

If they were being fired upon by the moon cannon, would they have fired on the Earth first?  I think not...

Except the Grand Cannon was activated AFTER the orbital bombardment, and took them by complete surprise. They didn't know it was there when they opened fire.

[Zinjo]

Ummmm... they didn't care about our weaponry. They bombarded us to destroy our civilization. That was kind of a major point of the story.

394377[/snapback]

I could be wrong, but I dont' recall any dialogue to that specific affect....

It's in there.

Bodolzaa only came over because his underlings were all contaminated by culture. That's also why Britai, Lap'lamiz, and Kamjin(maybe) joined forces with us to defeat Bodolzaa. He was going to kill them all anyways, so they had nothing to lose.

But their original interest at the beginning of the show that kept them from the Macross to smitherens and getting on with life was that we had reaction weaponry. They wanted them for themselves, so capturing the Macross seemed like a good idea.

So our weapons DID gain their attention, but it was to capture, not destroy.

If they were being fired upon by the moon cannon, would they have fired on the Earth first?  I think not...

Except the Grand Cannon was activated AFTER the orbital bombardment, and took them by complete surprise. They didn't know it was there when they opened fire.

396189[/snapback]

Damn, now I have to re-watch the series to bone up on my facts...

[Rocket Punch]

Ummmm... they didn't care about our weaponry. They bombarded us to destroy our civilization. That was kind of a major point of the story.

394377[/snapback]

I could be wrong, but I dont' recall any dialogue to that specific affect....

It's in there.

Bodolzaa only came over because his underlings were all contaminated by culture. That's also why Britai, Lap'lamiz, and Kamjin(maybe) joined forces with us to defeat Bodolzaa. He was going to kill them all anyways, so they had nothing to lose.

396189[/snapback]

IIRC, the decision by Bodolza to wipe out Britai, Lap'lamiz, and Kamjin's forces was made in Episode 26: Messenger.

[JB0]

Yeah... Lap'Lamiz calls Bodolzaa to end the silly peace treaty shenanigans, then brags to Britai.

And he laughs in her face about how mind-numbingly stupid she is.

Or something to that effect.

[HangPC2]

SV-51 User

- Russia

- Israel

- German

- Czech Republic

- India

- Poland

- Romania

- Turkey

- Ukraine

- P.R.C China

- Vanezeula

- ASEAN (Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam, Myammar, Laos)

- Middle East & North Africa (Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, I.R Iran)

http://www.hungrylizardstudio.com/sv51/svpage1.html

Edited July 16, 2008 by HangPC2

[Mr March]

That's some serious SV-51 fan heaven

[d3v]

SV-51 User

- Russia

- Israel

- German

- Czech Republic

- India

- Poland

- Romania

- Turkey

- Ukraine

- P.R.C China

- ASEAN (Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam, Myammar, Laos)

- Middle East (Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, I.R Iran)

http://www.hungrylizardstudio.com/sv51/svpage1.html

Wait? Is this canon?

Does that mean that this backwater archipelago of an ASEAN member/Non-NATO US ally I call home could actually afford to field one of those?

[Macross007]

Wait? Is this canon?

Does that mean that this backwater archipelago of an ASEAN member/Non-NATO US ally I call home could actually afford to field one of those?

Germany is a NATO member you know. But all the others are not. Maybe Germany betrayed NATO and it allies for power ?

Edited July 16, 2008 by Macross007

[HangPC2]

Wait? Is this canon?

Does that mean that this backwater archipelago of an ASEAN member/Non-NATO US ally I call home could actually afford to field one of those?

Sukhoi User

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-30

[RedWolf]

There are some signs that individual countries still operate separate force though (one of the reconstruction episodes features a wrecked destroid with US Army markings on it). I imagine that a large chunk of individual countries militaries have been subsumed by the UN Spacy, but that they still operate some independent forces as well. Given what we see, they most likely buy standard Spacy equipment.

Like the Zolan Galactic Patrol who has VF-5000 Star Mirages and one VF-19P Excalibur stole... er rented by one Nekki Basara.

But by most Valkyries are sold to private hands as civilian models or stolen goods sold by smugglers.

Some like the VA-3C invader are modified by pirates.

Some rouge groups like Vidirance can make their own VF designs.

EVA Feios which is similar to the Protodevlin FBz-99G Saubergeran.

[Macross007]

Wait? Is this canon?

Does that mean that this backwater archipelago of an ASEAN member/Non-NATO US ally I call home could actually afford to field one of those?

Look dude, Isreal, Germany and China are not poor countries (yes China is not poor when you know that this country own 2/3 of the US economy if I remember well). So I can easily see Isreal, Germany and China being the main contributors on the SV-51 project.

Edited July 16, 2008 by Macross007