New Dvd Formats Or Security?

[NERV]

Did some big change in formats/security happen recently? i just got a set of invader zim DVDs and here is what happened: in my dvd player sometimes it will act like a scratched dvd and skip constantly, most times ti just says disc error. in my computer, sometiems it will seem to load normally but onc eyou select play from the menu it crashes my computer, but most times it won't even see the disc in the drive. now here's what pises me off, in my parent's dvd player that they got less than a year ago it plays fine. my DVD player was $450, top of the line, less than 5 years ago, and it's already becoming obsolete? that is bullsh*t, far as im concerned it leaves me only one option, if my legally purchased media will not play in my legal dvd player, i see little recourse other than returning the DVDs and downloading the equivalent

[Rocket Punch]

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE!!!

FIGHT THE POWER!!!

PAINT THE WHITE HOUSE BLACK!!!

[Chewie]

Did some big change in formats/security happen recently? i just got a set of invader zim DVDs and here is what happened: in my dvd player sometimes it will act like a scratched dvd and skip constantly, most times ti just says disc error. in my computer, sometiems it will seem to load normally but onc eyou select play from the menu it crashes my computer, but most times it won't even see the disc in the drive. now here's what pises me off, in my parent's dvd player that they got less than a year ago it plays fine. my DVD player was $450, top of the line, less than 5 years ago, and it's already becoming obsolete? that is bullsh*t, far as im concerned it leaves me only one option, if my legally purchased media will not play in my legal dvd player, i see little recourse other than returning the DVDs and downloading the equivalent 

391516[/snapback]

Same thing happened to me. My 4 year old $500 Dvd player won't touch anything newer than a year. It's about to be the lining of the bottom of my trash can.

Guess I'llhave to pick up one of those Mintek players from Wal-Mart for $35 and those play EVERYTHING.

=(

- C

[Mowe]

This is another example of the madness of the DVD industry (or any other software/media licensing bureaucracy out there).

If there is one thing I learnt about the media technology, it would be: "trust your dirt cheap no-thrill Korean makers over those jackass big name companies whom's only interest is to monopolise the industry".

Similarly, many years ago, as naive as I was, I seriously wanted to buy authentic licensed softwares but what I ended up was paying sh%t load of money for products that have so much restriction that I actually had to resolve to illegal means or foreign makers. DVD players, game consoles, cad programs, operating system, media softwares...the list just goes on. When will those corporate eggheads learnt??

Edited April 16, 2006 by Mowe

[Ladic]

I paid $20 for my dvd player and it plays all regions

[Mr March]

Mostly, I've been told it has to do with DVD hardware and software differences between models over many years. More specifically, the hardware used to read discs and the manner in which DVDs are encoded.

Up until just recently, I owned a Toshiba DVD player which I purchased back in 1999 for $250. The unit was reliable for 99% of all DVDs I rented/purchased. However, every once in a while, a dirt/scratch free DVD that was known to work well in any other DVD player would not function on my player. One such disc was the Dune Miniseries and another was Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers Extended Edition (that's right, just the middle film, not the other two). When Lord of the Rings failed to function, that was the nail in the coffin of my Toshiba

Since purchasing my new Sony DVD player last year, I've run almost my half my collection of DVDs (about 250 discs in total) including roughly 200 rented DVDs. Nothing has failed to run.

I'd recommend getting a new player. After 7 years, it really was time for a new one. You're now at 5 years with yours, which is fairly old in the digital world. New players are so cheap it's almost a crime. I purchased my current Sony for under $80; it runs quieter, faster, and smoother than my old Toshiba.

[mikeszekely]

I'd recommend getting a new player.

But why should we have to?

I had the same 19" TV, and hand-me-down from my parents, for something like 15 years. It didn't stop playing TV shows. In fact, I still own the TV, but it hasn't been hooked up for the last four years because I've had two better TVs since. But we're expected to buy new DVD players every five years to keep up with the latest security encryptions?

Piracy protection is becoming more and more of an excuse for extortion.

[yellowlightman]

But we're expected to buy new DVD players every five years to keep up with the latest security encryptions?

391583[/snapback]

Sounds like they're taking a page out of the video game industry's playbook.

[JB0]

But we're expected to buy new DVD players every five years to keep up with the latest security encryptions?

391583[/snapback]

Sounds like they're taking a page out of the video game industry's playbook.

391586[/snapback]

The game industry sells new hardwre to add power.

HD-DVD/BluRay would be a more apt game analogy.

They aren't selling new players for security. Nothing has been added to teh DVD spec, and thus nothing has been added to the players.

They're adding new features to teh disk that aren't a part of the standard. No player actually supports them, and the design goal of breaking DVD copier software that reads spec disks ensures that some hardware won't play them(including some new hardware).

Same issue we had with CD copy protection(Philips won't let publishers use the compact disk logo on their disks if certain forms of copy protection are present for that reason).

Publishers are also using more of the features that ARE standard. Player support for the DVD programming language varies quite wildly, and if you get fancy, odds are good that it won't work in all players, especially older ones.

And the final nail is... hardware just isn't built as good anymore, so it fails faster.

Sure they could use metal tracking rails, high-quality motors, decent power supplies, and so on. But it'd drive the player cost up and more people will go for the 50$ chinese crap. If they want to remain competitive in the mass market, they have to use the chinese build quality.

Good parts only wind up in the videophile stuff, which is obscenely expensive. If you WANT to pay a grand for a DVD player, you'll get something that'll last.

Otherwise... disposability is the name of the game.

And until the hardware failed, my Apexes from 99 and... I think 01 were pretty decent. The Sonys that replaced them have more software issues.

[Rocket Punch]

Oh, so it's the Chinese's fault huh?

Why's everything gotta be about race with you, JBO?

[JB0]

Oh, so it's the Chinese's fault huh?

Why's everything gotta be about race with you, JBO?

391614[/snapback]

Because elephants have flat feet.

[Phalanx]

Oh, so it's the Chinese's fault huh?

Why's everything gotta be about race with you, JBO?

391614[/snapback]

Because elephants have flat feet.o

391625[/snapback]

Quick question Rocket Punch, are you Chinese or Korean? Wasn't sure by looking at your profile pic

[Mowe]

It ain't matter.

And yes, many china made products are crap but they are cheap and they do the job good enough and last long enough for the next techno upgrade. There is a market for these products. Even my fav mobile VW Golf is now made in China. It is th trend and you can't fight it.

Quick question Rocket Punch, are you Chinese or Korean?  Wasn't sure by looking at your profile pic

391626[/snapback]

Edited April 17, 2006 by Mowe

[Roy Focker]

Interesting as I recall most stores have a policy of not accepting returns for open dvds. Has anyone returned them because their dvd player wouldn't play them?

My biggest security feature beef? You can't fast forward past the FBI warning everytime you pop one your forced to watch it. Some DVD I rented forces you to watch the previews.

[Mr March]

I'd recommend getting a new player.

But why should we have to?

I had the same 19" TV, and hand-me-down from my parents, for something like 15 years. It didn't stop playing TV shows. In fact, I still own the TV, but it hasn't been hooked up for the last four years because I've had two better TVs since. But we're expected to buy new DVD players every five years to keep up with the latest security encryptions?

Piracy protection is becoming more and more of an excuse for extortion.

391583[/snapback]

Okay when did this become an anti-corporate, state-of-the-consumer-base rant? I'm offering a low cost solution to NERV's problem, nothing more.

Why don't lawnmowers last 20 years anymore? Why has my parent's refrigerator purchased in 1990 failed to outlast the first fridge they had for 30 years? Why are new cars falling apart after a decade? I'm afraid high turnover is a fact of diminishing returns for the consumer, a problem you can thank for being born a lucky member of the first generation in your society to be worse off than the one before.

Grievances aside, if you want to avoid high DVD electronics turnover, I can recommend your PC/Mac. Most computer drives last 5-10 years if properly maintained.

[Noriko Takaya]

I'd recommend getting a new player.

But why should we have to?

I had the same 19" TV, and hand-me-down from my parents, for something like 15 years. It didn't stop playing TV shows. In fact, I still own the TV, but it hasn't been hooked up for the last four years because I've had two better TVs since. But we're expected to buy new DVD players every five years to keep up with the latest security encryptions?

Piracy protection is becoming more and more of an excuse for extortion.

391583[/snapback]

Welcome to wonderful world of planned obsolescence.

[Mowe]

Heh..heh...any chance I have to take a stab at the corporate world, I'll take it. It makes me feel g..o...o..d...

Okay when did this become an anti-corporate, state-of-the-consumer-base rant?  I'm offering a low cost solution to NERV's problem, nothing more.

391640[/snapback]

Edited April 17, 2006 by Mowe

[JB0]

My biggest security feature beef?  You can't fast forward past the FBI warning everytime you pop one your forced to watch it.  Some DVD I rented forces you to watch the previews.

391638[/snapback]

A lot of times they only lock some controls. Fast-forward, track forward, and menu are rarely ALL blocked. And when they are, it's usually only the first logo or 2, then you can jab menu.

[Rocket Punch]

Quick question Rocket Punch, are you Chinese or Korean?  Wasn't sure by looking at your profile pic

391626[/snapback]

Close but way off. I'm flip, pare.

[Rocket Punch]

Interesting as I recall most stores have a policy of not accepting returns for open dvds.  Has anyone returned them because their dvd player wouldn't play them?

391638[/snapback]

IIRC Best Buy used to have a "No Questions Asked" policy concerning the return of DVDs. Is this still true?

[mikeszekely]

Okay when did this become an anti-corporate, state-of-the-consumer-base rant?

Because I think that, in some ways, the issue is less the quality of the device (the higher quality units are the ones with the problems) and more like another case of companies so anxious to protect themselves from piracy that they down right screw their customers.

Slightly OT, I'm still pissed that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will down-res your movies if you use a component video connection.

[mikeszekely]

Oh, so it's the Chinese's fault huh?

Why's everything gotta be about race with you, JBO?

I'm sorry, but why attack JB0 for stating the obvious? Most Chinese consumer electronics are not the highest of quality. They use cheaper labor and cheaper materials, and wind up with a product that they can sell for a lot less than a competing American or Japanese brand. This is a strategy that has paid off in spades. As Wal-Mart shoppers gleefully buy the cheapest electronics they can find, China's economic is taking off.

Following that logic, if he's blaming anyone, he's blaming his fellow Americans for buying so many "off-brand" electronics in the first place. If Joe Six-Pack would spend a little more on the better brands, he'd be sending a message that he prefers quality over cost.

[Mr March]

Heh..heh...any chance I have to take a stab at the corporate world, I'll take it.  It makes me feel g..o...o..d...  

391646[/snapback]

A guilty pleasure to be sure

[Zentrandude]

Im surprised no manifestos haven't been posted up yet.

I know how some of you guys feel about this, my old portal dvd player i paid 300 bucks for has problem playing some movies after 2003. On those movies the player would have long pauses trying to scan the data like on a damage disc but the disc is new and scratch free. Dvds from before 2003 plays fine on the player even if its scratched up or warped after being shot with an airsoft gun 30 feet away.

[Mr March]

Okay when did this become an anti-corporate, state-of-the-consumer-base rant?

Because I think that, in some ways, the issue is less the quality of the device (the higher quality units are the ones with the problems) and more like another case of companies so anxious to protect themselves from piracy that they down right screw their customers.

Slightly OT, I'm still pissed that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will down-res your movies if you use a component video connection.

391670[/snapback]

Fair enough, though I can't really think of any solution other than to buy a new DVD player...and buy a cheap one.

I agree that the copyright holders for films and music are paranoid and causing more damage to the consumer market and media compatibility. While there will always be end users/consumers abusing the system and illegally downloading ALL the films/tv/music they want, the current copyright crisis is really just a misunderstanding on behalf of copyright holders. These companies saw everything internet as a threat, rather than treating it as a message from consumers (which I beleive, more than anything, is the truth of the matter).

So many computer users saw the internet as an ideal media delivery system. They no longer wanted to buy their music and movies on discs, prefering the convenience of file transfer (this was also an enviromental issue for some). In the beginning, the only way to support file transfer was to use it, however illegal it may have been. Unfortunately, so many of the multinational companies that own the rights to these entertainment products are stuck in "conquer-the-world, brand-everything-with-our-logo" mode that they interpreted this new market demand as an attack upon their property rights. "Wow, what a remarkable opportunity this new method of distribution will present" is what they should have said, if North America was still a properly functioning captialist system.

As a result, it has taken a very, VERY long time for consumers to enjoy online distribution. Even now, music is still slow to catch on (even with the popularity of iTunes and such) and Hollywood studios are still opposing easy online distribution for films. I suppose this incident shows us all the state of our society (little bit of a soapbox

I'm saddened by the HD/Blu Ray situation. I can see very little good coming of it. I'm afraid the inability of these companies to agree on a single format will mean the majority of the consumer base will simply avoid confusion by avoiding both formats, leading to another 5-10 years before the next format can make an effective market pitch to the public.

[Mr March]

*snip*

If Joe Six-Pack would spend a little more on the better brands, he'd be sending a message that he prefers quality over cost.

391675[/snapback]

That can be tough, since the average electronics consumer is not electronics savy. They see two players that can both play their new Terminator 2 Special Edition DVD and they go for the cheaper one cause they can't tell the difference.

I suppose a little bit of this would also have to do with our society and consumer mindset. Instant gratification is a sad reality that affects a wide range of buying behaviour. Rarely are buyers thinking far ahead.

Edited April 17, 2006 by Mr March

[Kin]

THE WHOLE SOCIETY IS A VICTOM OF: VENDORLOCK

[Rocket Punch]

Oh, so it's the Chinese's fault huh?

Why's everything gotta be about race with you, JBO?

I'm sorry, but why attack JB0 for stating the obvious? Most Chinese consumer electronics are not the highest of quality. They use cheaper labor and cheaper materials, and wind up with a product that they can sell for a lot less than a competing American or Japanese brand. This is a strategy that has paid off in spades. As Wal-Mart shoppers gleefully buy the cheapest electronics they can find, China's economic is taking off.

Following that logic, if he's blaming anyone, he's blaming his fellow Americans for buying so many "off-brand" electronics in the first place. If Joe Six-Pack would spend a little more on the better brands, he'd be sending a message that he prefers quality over cost.

391675[/snapback]

LOL

Relax and take a deep breath, son. It's called a "joke".

[jwinges]

Have you updated your firmware on the player?

Most of the time that can help.

I just ran into this this weekend. I was trying to make backup copies My Narnia and Howl's moving castle DVD's for a car-ride/camping trip and my usual never fail decryption program couldn't crack them. They also don't play in one of my old players.

[Zinjo]

I guess I'm curious, at least about the initial posters machine, what brand and model it was and if it had any other problems besides certain discs.  I'm not disputing his claim that somethings up with the media hes putting in it, but I'm curious if this is an isolated thing, a particular manufactuer thing, a region thing, a quality control thing, if theres a firmware update somewhere, etc etc.

391691[/snapback]

I agree, if the drive is "still" supported by the manufacturer there should be a firmware update for it.

[Gaijin]

Slightly OT, I'm still pissed that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will down-res your movies if you use a component video connection.

It will up to each movie studio for each title...nothing to do with neither HD DVD or BDA decisions on the matter. If a disc is "down rezzed" through ICT it must state so on the packaging as well. Most studios will not set the flag for many years. They do realize that there are a lot of component only TV's out there. Only Warner and Paramount were really set on setting the flag (though Warner's first HD DVD releases do not have the flag set).

On the slight upside it won't down res to 480p but 960x540 so while not HD res, it will still be higher than a DVD. So again, just avoid titles that set the flag if you have component only.

[Gaijin]

And on this whole issue...new DVD's don't have new security formats. The whole DVD "standard" is an oxymoron.

Heck, some of the chinese players out there don't even pay the fees for there players...they manufacture a bunch, then the "factory" closes up and that company doesn't exist anymore..DVD forum suffers and is out cash.

[JB0]

I don't know if cheaper DVD players are simply an issue of stupid consumers and strict copy protection concerns. If CD players, and I remember when those motherfarters were like 200-300 bucks a shot for a portable one in the old days, were still clocking hundreds of dollars at MSRP, then the CD market would never have expanded and basically eliminated records and cassettes. Now I think you can get the super cheap drug store CD players for like 10-15 bucks if that now. Is the money to be made in CD players or the CDs themselves?

Apparently, since the people selling cheap CD players don't make any money off the media.

Remember, games are a diffrent issue. There you have one hardware supplier, and all software sold for that hardware puts cash in the hardware manufacturer's pocket.

With CD and DVD, the hardware manufacturers don't see a cent of the media sales. They HAVE to turn a profit on the hardware. And if that profit comes at the cost of quality engineering, then so be it.

[NERV]

hah actually turns out there isnt a problem, it just so happened to be a coincidence that 2 unscratched dvds in the series wunt play for whatever reason but i got replacements and they lay fine, dvd error then

[bigkid24]

Interesting as I recall most stores have a policy of not accepting returns for open dvds.  Has anyone returned them because their dvd player wouldn't play them?

My biggest security feature beef?  You can't fast forward past the FBI warning everytime you pop one your forced to watch it.  Some DVD I rented forces you to watch the previews.

391638[/snapback]

Yeah, the FBI warning thing sucks. I usually try the menu button, then skipping it, then fast forwarding through it. One of those three will ususally work.