Offensive?

[dr_vandermeer]

OK...  if you think the swastika has to go, I think all the half-naked tits need to go.

Dr Vandermeer's bloody child needs to go because showing bloody children reminds me of all the bastards who harm kids.

>EXO<'s avatar should go because I find it offensive every time I see Minmay giving me the finger.

NERV's avatar has to go because many people don't think something like that is remotely funny.

I'm offended by Phyrox's avatar because one of my friends was beaten up once by a bunch of a$$holes in a super-redneck mobile simply because he was out skateboarding.

Asking someone to change their avatar simply because most of the western hemisphere will misinterpret it is plain dumb.

And I love Patlabors complete storyline, yo.

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In the 50's an image of a bloody child would have been universally offensive, but now it's commonplace - and I really rather enjoy it

I figure it's fine. People will figure it out. Or eventually I'll just get bored with my movie screencap and get an avatar of a Finnish swastika

Edited April 9, 2006 by dr_vandermeer

[Phyrox]

Don't worry about it. After a few days of ignorant knee-jerk reactions, people will catch on and it won't even be noticed.

At least I hope so, this board has proven in the past to be capable of a level of maturity rare on public forums...I would assume this is no exception.

[JsARCLIGHT]

It is not offense, it is the traffic jam that avatar starts in every thread it is seen in I have a problem with. IMHO it is like trying to have a calm discussion about puppies while your hair is on fire... everyone in the room is going to be screaming OMGFBBQ! HIS HAIR IS ON FIRE! and the conversation goes spiraling out of control into a subject it originally had nothing to do with.

Like it or not that symbol is associated with horrible attrocities. The Finnish Air Force abandoned that symbol in 1944 as did the rest of the modern world for a reason, when people see it they instantly think "nazi". No matter how good or innocent a symbol had been or could be when the blood of so many people are seen behind it it becomes something else.

At the same time WDC had a point about all the other questionable avatars on here. At what point does something violate MW R&R when it comes to avatars? From the words of Roy "it is the moderators job to keep the forums running smoothly" and when someone's avatar causes a ruckus all the time it is disruptive and thus would need to be removed. It has happened before on here several times and the outcome was always the same.

[Metal_Massacre_79]

Go to this link if you have a question about the avatar:

http://history1900s.about.com/cs/swastika/...tikahistory.htm

I immediately knew the meaning of it and took no offense at all. It's too bad that, most of the time in life, the few will suffer for the ignorance of many.

[Liottel]

I'd really rather like to keep it, but I suppose I could use some other Finnish hakaristi that isn't nearly as visually similar to the one you are referring to.

And besides, so far it's only my threads that have been derailed. I don't mind.

And I mean, as far as people mistaking it for the WWII German symbol and being offended - I bet they wouldn't be offended if I had a hammer & sickle as my avatar. And in fact, Communists under the Bolsheviks, Stalin, Castro, Mao, and more, have murdered millions more than the Germans ever did, and continue to brainwash and oppress a staggering number of humans on this earth. The communist party of Mongolia recently illegally ousted the democratic president, because communists are the enemy of mankind. Venezuela, Nicaragua, Cuba, are all stagnant mires with no possible future for their populations due to the oppressive and sick communist principals controlling their government. China is beginning to forcibly oppress Taiwan, and I believe Taiwan probably won't be what it is today in 50 years.

Not only has communism killed millions more than the fascists, their influence on this earth is still damning and apparent - while fascist influence lasted only a quarter century, and has been firmly cleaned from the earth. And yet, most of you would not be offended by a hammer & sickle.

~Liottel.

[JsARCLIGHT]

The Russian hammer and sickle is actually a political symbol much like the true nazi swastika, american flag and any other political symbol. MW R&R is supposed to have strict rules against politics and political symbols. The reasoning is that politics and political symbolism cause problems like the one we are having now: people cannot help but get embroiled in off topic discussions when they see them as we are now.

My personal feelings on this are irrelevant. That symobol played a role in history and as such it is history. Once again, my "problem" if you can call it that with this issue is NOT about the offense it may cause, bad taste or anything other than the disruptive nature that that avatar and any other avatar like it will cause. I am also concerned about outside folks coming into MW and reacting to that avatar.

[dr_vandermeer]

I think I see Liottel's point now.

Edited April 9, 2006 by dr_vandermeer

[JsARCLIGHT]

OK this is going too far now.

[zeo-mare]

I'd really rather like to keep it, but I suppose I could use some other Finnish hakaristi that isn't nearly as visually similar to the one you are referring to.

And besides, so far it's only my threads that have been derailed. I don't mind.

And I mean, as far as people mistaking it for the WWII German symbol and being offended - I bet they wouldn't be offended if I had a hammer & sickle as my avatar. And in fact, Communists under the Bolsheviks, Stalin, Castro, Mao, and more, have murdered millions more than the Germans ever did, and continue to brainwash and oppress a staggering number of humans on this earth. The communist party of Mongolia recently illegally ousted the democratic president, because communists are the enemy of mankind. Venezuela, Nicaragua, Cuba, are all stagnant mires with no possible future for their populations due to the oppressive and sick communist principals controlling their government. China is beginning to forcibly oppress Taiwan, and I believe Taiwan probably won't be what it is today in 50 years.

Not only has communism killed millions more than the fascists, their influence on this earth is still damning and apparent - while fascist influence lasted only a quarter century, and has been firmly cleaned from the earth. And yet, most of you would not be offended by a hammer & sickle.

~Liottel.

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you have a excellent and very intelligent point there, my only problem is that it is derailing threads, i do not mind you haveing it and i know what it represents. but now that i see that threads are being closed because of it, it may become a problem. i just do not want to see it happen over and over again in other threads as well.

chris

[Dante74]

Liottel,

Would you wear a jacket with a big swastika on the back while you where walking around town? I don't think you would because you would probably be beat up by someone. It might be a symbol the Finnish airforce WHERE proud of, but they where smart enough to stop using it because 6 million people where killed under it.

I'm not exactly a religious person, in fact, I'm a total atheist. That doesn't mean I'm going to swear when there are religious people around because I respect them and I don't want to offend there believes.

Here's an example

Symbol of the band 'Bad Religion' goes here

I don't find this symbol offensive, so neither should you.

That's stupid.

If you know that a certain symbol offends someone don't display it.

I'm not jewish and I'm not offended by the symbol, but other people might be so why would you want to offend them just because, for you, it represents good luck.

Edited April 9, 2006 by Dante74

[bsu legato]

Threads like this never cease to amaze me, nor do posters who blatantly try to hide behind terms like "Finnish Air Force" and "good luck charms." Sure that may have been the case at one point, but even Finland had the common sense to abandon your precious hakaristi after WW2, no doubt on grounds of good taste. So if Finland, a country that nobody otherwise associates with National Socialism (their cooperation with Nazi Germany in the Winter War aside), can summon up the courtesy to discontinue the use of a potentially offensive symbol, whats your excuse?

ps, spare us the history lessons. There may be a large amount of younger members here who have only recently found there way to these boards, but most of us are old enough to have voluntarily read a book or two ourselves.

[Liottel]

Ok, you get upset because I use a Finnish symbol that, in fact is no longer in use. Ok, fair enough. Updated my avatar. Finnish flag, the hakaristi on the Finnish Presidential Flag flying today, and the heraldic symbol of Finland.

Dare say theres no way no how someone could find it offensive now.

~Liottel.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Ok, you get upset because I use a Finnish symbol that, in fact is no longer in use. Ok, fair enough. Updated my avatar. Finnish flag, the hakaristi on the Finnish Presidential Flag flying today, and the heraldic symbol of Finland.

Dare say theres no way no how someone could find it offensive now.

~Liottel.

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But you do see that THAT symbol in THAT configuation looks NOTHING like the nazi symbol? Similair in nature but different in presense. That is all that matters. I do not see that new avatar causing a problem in the near future and that is all I wanted you to think about. Thank you.

Now Doc, your point has been made please put away the devil's bowtie.

[dr_vandermeer]

Ok, you get upset because I use a Finnish symbol that, in fact is no longer in use. Ok, fair enough. Updated my avatar. Finnish flag, the hakaristi on the Finnish Presidential Flag flying today, and the heraldic symbol of Finland.

Dare say theres no way no how someone could find it offensive now.

~Liottel.

389366[/snapback]

But you do see that THAT symbol in THAT configuation looks NOTHING like the nazi symbol? Similair in nature but different in presense. That is all that matters. I do not see that new avatar causing a problem in the near future and that is all I wanted you to think about. Thank you.

Now Doc, your point has been made please put away the devil's bowtie.

389368[/snapback]

Done.

[Liottel]

Yes I do understand. I just thought that most people associated WWII Germans with the Black, White, Red, crooked at a 45 degree angle one, not the straight up & down White, Black, and Blue one of the Finns.

And actually, in some representations the Presidential Hakaristi looks even cooler, with a rose in the middle. It's really pretty. I believe that Finland is the only country who's government still actually uses the symbol. And at least, when you see it on the presidential flag, yellow bars inlayed on blue maltese cross, it's quite striking!

Having been to Finland many many times, and having relatives that fought in the Winter War and Continuation War, I must say I'm a bit proud of Finlands use of it. I wonder if, in many many years, if the Finnish Air Force will once again adopt the symbol? Germans still fly the Iron Cross, after al. Imagine seeing those new Finnish FA-18's decked out with blue on white Hakaristis, it'd be amazing looking. Although I think all Finnish F-18's sport low-vis grey paint.. But still.

~Liottel.

[Dante74]

Yes I do understand. I just thought that most people associated WWII Germans with the Black, White, Red, crooked at a 45 degree angle one, not the straight up & down White, Black, and Blue one of the Finns.

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I'm color blind and I have a very bad sense of direction.

Thanks for changing it.

Should I remove the link to the Bad Religion sweatband now?

[Sdf-1]

Heh, this is sure getting patriotic.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Should I remove the link to the Bad Religion sweatband now?

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Please do, thank you.

[Dante74]

Done!

[Roy Focker]

Was there a page one of this topic? In any case I got a PM from one of the posters here.

The swastika symbol wasn't always one of evil. The Nazi's use of that symbol has given it a bad rap. In the proper contexts not all swastikas are bad but the casual poster here isn't going to see the intended context right away.

There was a comment about the avatars of the nude female form in the private message. Which ones are were being talked about? Most of those are moderated. I recall one of some topless model whose arms or hands are covering her breasts. Even though it is nude it still covered and I don't recall the pose looking vulgar or her facial expression moaning or anything like that.

As a general rule on questionable avatars. There are some here that I find tasteless but which I don't remove. My personal taste alone isn't enough unless the avatar is clearly bad. For all other ones that fall in the questionable area I typically wait for someone to send an offical complaint in which I take a look and if I agree the avatar is fixed.

[Phyrox]

Don't worry about it.  After a few days of ignorant knee-jerk reactions, people will catch on and it won't even be noticed.

At least I hope so, this board has proven in the past to be capable of a level of maturity rare on public forums...I would assume this is no exception.

389343[/snapback]

Guess I was wrong...