Supervision Army / Other Zentradi Fleets

[Cabbit Commando]

Hi this may have been covered in a post that the search engine couldn't find.

Are all the Supervision Army forces Spiritia sucking Protodevlin fodder or are they (or some of them) basically Zentradi with different ship designs. I was under the impression that the Protodevlin had just Mind Whammied a good chunk of the SA, Zentradi & ProtoCulture & that the SA wasn't completely created by Protodevlin as their fodder.

For general chuckles & giggles: I know canon is out the window on this next bit & personal preference would kick in, but here goes. Would SA ship designs tend to resemble the Meltrandi ships from DYRL?

How would a non-boldoz Zentradi ship react to a UN spacy ship, Human made or refurbashed Zentradi design?

They might not shoot at the Zentradi designed one until they realized that they are "infected"

It is about 8 hours past my bed time & i am rambling now Thanks all.

P.S. Macross rulz

[Cabbit Commando]

What was going thru my mind last night/this morning?

Has the Hory Froating Head or one of his minions said anything about the Meltrandi designs from DYRL?

I get the impression that regular timeline Meltrandi tended to pilot Queedlun-Rau & Maybe fighter pods. Did they use Regults too? In the episode were Millia took the 3 spies onto the Macross there were Regults but I think she was on a Male ship just acting as a highly skilled courier.

I know that because Millia was an Ace & the Queedlun-Rau is kewl that there is a tendency to think of the females as the special forced aces of the Zentradi. I don't know if this is true or not but it would explain their presence in relativly small numbers. I think in the Fleet of the Strongest women episode from M7 that they were all using Q-Rau suits.

[danth]

These are great questions, and I'd love to hear the answers as well. I wish we could get a Macross series about the Protoculture & the Supervision army, since what we know of them is so much speculation.

Hey Cabbit, you like Macross and Tenchi Muyo? <3 <3 <3 I think I found me a new best friend!

[JB0]

What was going thru my mind last night/this morning?

Has the Hory Froating Head or one of his minions said anything about the Meltrandi designs from DYRL?

Not that I know of.

I get the impression that regular timeline Meltrandi tended to pilot Queedlun-Rau & Maybe fighter pods.  Did they use Regults too?  In the episode were Millia took the 3 spies onto the Macross there were Regults but I think she was on a Male ship just acting as a highly skilled courier.

The impression given so far is that males and females use diffrent mechs.

Even without the war of the sexes plot from DYRL there's touches in the original series, like Lap'Lamiz' ships being purple as opposed to Britai's and Kamjin's green pickles. Heck, they even had diffrent powered armor suits(males=NosGer, females = the almighty QRau)

You're right anout the Regulds, though. Millia WAS on one of Britai's ships for the spy insertion.

I know that because Millia was an Ace & the Queedlun-Rau is kewl that there is a tendency to think of the females as the special forced aces of the Zentradi.  I don't know if this is true or not but it would explain their presence in relativly small numbers.  I think in the Fleet of the Strongest women episode from M7 that they were all using Q-Rau suits.

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I hadn't thought of the Mac7 episode before.

I'd always sort of figured that Lap'Lamiz' forces were just the elite of the gender, and the females had a full specturm of male-equivalent vehicles.

Perhaps emphasizing speed and firepower over durability, if the QRau-NosGer comparison holds(NosGer always looked more durable than the QRau, but lower-performance).

[Zinjo]

Hi this may have been covered in a post that the search engine couldn't find.

Are all the Supervision Army forces Spiritia sucking Protodevlin fodder or are they (or some of them) basically Zentradi with different ship designs.  I was under the impression that the Protodevlin had just Mind Whammied a good chunk of the SA, Zentradi & ProtoCulture & that the SA wasn't completely created by Protodevlin as their fodder.

From what I understand, the SA are the army the PD's created to conduct their war on the Protoculture Stellar Republic. Initially they were mind controlled Protoculture and Zentreadi forces.

When the PD were imprisoned by the Protoculture forces, their army continued to fight directly with the Zentreadi and control over the Zentreadi Army was lost by the protoculture government.

The battles between the two armies almost completely wipe out the people of old Stellar Republic (it is believed that there are a few autonomous Protoculture worlds, outposts and fleets still in existence somewhere in the Galaxy).

Essentially, after the PD were imprisoned the Supervision Army kept fighting the Zentreadi, even after the mind control wore off. They have been fighting ever since for over half a million years.

http://macross.anime.net//story/chronology...0000/index.html

For general chuckles & giggles: I know canon is out the window on this next bit & personal preference would kick in, but here goes.  Would SA ship designs tend to resemble the Meltrandi ships from DYRL?

How would a non-boldoz Zentradi ship react to a UN spacy ship, Human made or refurbashed Zentradi design?

They might not shoot at the Zentradi designed one until they realized that they are "infected"

It is about 8 hours past my bed time & i am rambling now Thanks all.

P.S. Macross rulz

389224[/snapback]

The SA army capital ships are said to resmble the ships the PD had from Mac 7, but not as advanced.

Apparently the knowledge to build the PD versions of the ships was lost when their masters were imprisoned on Varauta.

So most likely the Meltrandi ships of DYRL are similar in design to the SA ships, but not necessarily the same (they bear a surprising resemblance to the the PD ships of Mac 7, with their angular shapes, etc... Makes me wonder about actual the design of the Macross though--should it have been as organic looking or not.)

Edited April 9, 2006 by Zinjo

[Zinjo]

What was going thru my mind last night/this morning?

Has the Hory Froating Head or one of his minions said anything about the Meltrandi designs from DYRL?

I get the impression that regular timeline Meltrandi tended to pilot Queedlun-Rau & Maybe fighter pods.  Did they use Regults too?  In the episode were Millia took the 3 spies onto the Macross there were Regults but I think she was on a Male ship just acting as a highly skilled courier.

I know that because Millia was an Ace & the Queedlun-Rau is kewl that there is a tendency to think of the females as the special forced aces of the Zentradi.  I don't know if this is true or not but it would explain their presence in relativly small numbers.  I think in the Fleet of the Strongest women episode from M7 that they were all using Q-Rau suits.

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I tend to believe that it is possible that the males were used for straight up slugfest battles and the females were brought in for special missions requiring speed and stealth.

Basically the males were cannon fodder while the females were special forces.

[azrael]

The SA army capital ships are said to resmble the ships the PD had from Mac 7, but not as advanced.

That we don't know. There isn't enough evidence to say who was more advanced, the Varauta army or the SA.

Apparently the knowledge to build the PD versions of the ships was lost when their masters were imprisoned on Varauta.

Again, we don't know. We've seen so little of the SA ships that any comparison between the Varauta army and the SA cannot be made.

So most likely the Meltrandi ships of DYRL are similar in design to the SA ships, but not necessarily the same (they bear a surprising resemblance to the the PD ships of Mac 7, with their angular shapes, etc...  Makes me wonder about actual the design of the Macross though--should it have been as organic looking or not.)

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Again, we have not seen enough of the SA ships that again, we can't make this comparison.

[Zinjo]

After tracking down my source, Azreal is correct in that there is no definitive visual or written sources to back up my comments.

The site I referenced states the comments on this subject was conjecture based on articles presented in the Macross Compendium, thus my comments on SA cap ships are purely speculative as well.

Edited April 10, 2006 by Zinjo

[Cabbit Commando]

Alas I am once again struct down by lack of official info. Pardon me whilst I glare at my snickering Gundam Otaku Friends.

The search for info is based partly on being a rabid fan & partly on being a rabid fan who plays Mecha/Anime Based RPGs

It seems though that the SA ships have a side splitting main gun as opposed to the top bottom splitting Zentradi ones, but that is a pure guess based on the SDF Macross/SA gunship & conjecture from the ASS-2 wreck.

Nice to meet ya Danth,

Check out these Ideas:

Tenchi Macross or Super Dimensional Fortress Ryo-ohki

Follow the exploits of our hero Tenchi Ichijo as he deals with complex relationships with his comanding officer Ayeka Hayase, Young singing star Lynn Sasami & Alien Ace Ryoko. Can Captain Katsuhito Global safely guide the SDF-Ryo-Ohki back home? In their way stand the massive Zentradi fleet led by Mihoshi (wearing a Breetai style mask) & her archivist Washu, sent by the Tokimi main fleet to capture the SDF-Ryo-ohki.

Lets also not forget to mention "Kimagure Megaroad"

The story takes place on a Megaroad class colony ship. A young Spiritua user, Kasuga Kyousuke, finds himself torn between the affections of a hyper young girl named Hiyama Hikaru & her best friend the 1/2 Zentradi girl Ayukawa Madoka.

(does this count as hijacking my own thread?)

[Nied]

This shows up in Exsedol's re-counting of Zentradi history during one of the re-construction episodes in the original series. I do believe it's the only other image of SA ships in all of Macross continuity (ironically I pilfered it from Robotech.com). as you can see most of their ships are broadly similar in appearance to ASS-1. It appears there's an SA gunboat in the center of the image, some sort of design with an offset bridge in the foreground, and another SA ship below and behind the gunboat. There's also a Zentradi picket being destroyed and, in the lower right hand, a Thuverl Salan battleship.

[azrael]

Interesting....the ship in the foreground (lower left) seems a bit roundish, while the ASS-1-lookalike looks close to SDF-1 with a different bridge.

[danth]

Nice to meet ya Danth,

Check out these Ideas:

Tenchi Macross or Super Dimensional Fortress Ryo-ohki

Follow the exploits of our hero Tenchi Ichijo as he deals with complex relationships with his comanding officer Ayeka Hayase, Young singing star Lynn Sasami & Alien Ace Ryoko.  Can Captain Katsuhito Global safely guide the SDF-Ryo-Ohki back home?  In their way stand the massive Zentradi fleet led by Mihoshi (wearing a Breetai style mask) & her archivist Washu, sent by the Tokimi main fleet to capture the SDF-Ryo-ohki.

Awesome! All we need are Valkyries with trees inside and we're all set!

Lets also not forget to mention "Kimagure Megaroad"

389763[/snapback]

Ha! I actually laughed aloud at that.

[Zinjo]

Interesting....the ship in the foreground (lower left) seems a bit roundish, while the ASS-1-lookalike looks close to SDF-1 with a different bridge.

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The bridges resemble the SDF-2's bridge from the designs.

[Garou Kuroryuu]

This shows up in Exsedol's re-counting of Zentradi history during one of the re-construction episodes in the original series.  I do believe it's the only other image of SA ships in all of Macross continuity (ironically I pilfered it from Robotech.com).  as you can see most of their ships are broadly similar in appearance to ASS-1.  It appears there's an SA gunboat in the center of the image, some sort of design with an offset bridge in the foreground, and another SA ship below and behind the gunboat.  There's also a Zentradi picket being destroyed and, in the lower right hand, a Thuverl Salan battleship.

389840[/snapback]

Wow!

Very nice piece of "evidence"

I agree that the SA ships, if we follow the leads, look a lot like the ASS-1/SDF-1, just more rounded, but keeping the overall look-alike design. Even if the ship upfront differs from the ASS-1 main body design, it still resembles a lot the ASS-1 bridge/island super structure, and that "arm" like support seems like the bridge could also move from side to side in a certain way.

Funny that you had found that in the Homotech's site

[azrael]

The bridges resemble the SDF-2's bridge from the designs.

389993[/snapback]

More like the Bolognese-frigates.

[Zinjo]

Considering the ASS-1 was one of the smallest ships in their arsenal, it makes a person wonder what the full scale cruisers looked like.....

[Cabbit Commando]

Quote:

Considering the ASS-1 was one of the smallest ships in their arsenal, it makes a person wonder what the full scale cruisers looked like.....

End Quote

Indeed. Tho I would say that the SA ships would be any where from a bit smaller to no bigger than a Zentradi ship, given the size relation between a Zentran Gunship & their capital class ships.

But that is just my thought.

It was special circumstances that kept the SDF-1 from being blasted to atoms rather than the power of the ship.

I saw an interesting design in my Macross perfect memory that was listed with the Zentradi ships.

I belive it is this

http://macross.anime.net//mecha/zentradi/s...oyer/index.html

I don't think I have seen it in the film though.

[Zinjo]

I saw an interesting design in my Macross perfect memory that was listed with the Zentradi ships.

I belive it is this

http://macross.anime.net//mecha/zentradi/s...oyer/index.html

I don't think I have seen it in the film though.

390027[/snapback]

A Zent gunship can be seen in the battle scenes from DYRL.

Edited April 11, 2006 by Zinjo

[Nied]

The Zentradi Gun destroyer was also featured prominently in Episodes 27 and 36 of SDF: Macross.

[Zinjo]

The Zentradi Gun destroyer was also featured prominently in Episodes 27 and 36 of SDF: Macross.

390067[/snapback]

Damn!

Now I am going to have to look at those eps again...

[Cabbit Commando]

I just watched eps 27 & 36 & darned if it wasn't there. Infact Kamjin was commanding one in eps 36!

I watched a few more eps too

When Milia was gunning for Max the Purple ship she was on disgorged Q-Raus & Fighter Pods, so I guess that the Meltrandi* used them too.

I also used my Zentradi decoder ring to translate what was written on the side of the ship. (Thanks DP-9s Macross II Deckplans )

It said "109 (1009?) Lamis" Aparently the Zentran alphabet that Palladium used they swiped from the Zentran decoder thing that the Japanese sold many many years ago. Glad they at least got SOMETHING right in the RPG Game.

*I use Meltran/Zentran to describe female/male as per later Macross series. I am not refering to DYRL.

PS Millia Rulz.

PPS Max is better

PPPS Han shot first.

[Nied]

I just watched eps 27 & 36 & darned if it wasn't there.  Infact Kamjin was commanding one in eps 36!

I watched a few more eps too    

When Milia was gunning for Max the Purple ship she was on disgorged Q-Raus & Fighter Pods, so I guess that the Meltrandi* used them too.

I also used my Zentradi decoder ring to translate what was written on the side of the ship. (Thanks DP-9s Macross II Deckplans )

It said "109 (1009?) Lamis"  Aparently the Zentran alphabet that Palladium used they swiped from the Zentran decoder thing that the Japanese sold many many years ago.  Glad they at least got SOMETHING right in the RPG Game.

*I use Meltran/Zentran to describe female/male as per later Macross series. I am not refering to DYRL.

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Actually I beileive the ship in "Pinapple Salad" is the detachable bow section of Laplamiz's Queadol-Magdomilla command battlecruiser. Observe:

[Cabbit Commando]

I know, but thanks alot anyways.

I brought up the Pinapple salad episode stuff to hearken back to my question of what mecha did the Meltrans use.

Since most of my early information about things Macross/Robotech came from the Palladium RPG, & I only relativly recently was able to get the DVDs, I was only aware of 5 of the Zentradi ship types.

I also looked again in my Perfect Memory & found a size chart that included the Zentradi Gunboat & it is WAY smaller that the Macross. I guess that torpedos my original comment on the SA ship size.

[Uxi]

I always liked Fleet of the Strongest Women and imagine there could be a whole series/OVA about a time period between SDF:Macross and M7 based on encounters with other fleets.

Interesting comment in FotSW that they didn't think there could be any fleets that large anymore. How can we reconcile that with the comment in DYRL (presumably in universe for the 2040'ish 'audience' ) that there were thousands of fleets like those of Bodolza and Laplamiz...

[JB0]

I always liked Fleet of the Strongest Women and imagine there could be a whole series/OVA about a time period between SDF:Macross and M7 based on encounters with other fleets. 

Interesting comment in FotSW that they didn't think there could be any fleets that large anymore.  How can we reconcile that with the comment in DYRL (presumably in universe for the 2040'ish 'audience' ) that there were thousands of fleets like those of Bodolza and Laplamiz...

390958[/snapback]

DYRL was scare-mongering propaganda to get people to support more military spending.

Max was a high-ranking military officer and knew a more accurate version of things than the masses.

Tada! Instant justification!

[Rocket Punch]

The Zentraedi have mobile chemical labs and WMDs!!!!!

[Cabbit Commando]

I only have seen the Fleet of Stongest Women once at an anime club meeting years ago so I don't remember all the details.

I got the feeling in the original TV series that there were HUGE numbers of Zentradi & Supervision Army Fleets running around.

Unless Max's comment was refering to remenants of Bodolza's Fleet.

It sounded like it would be inevitable that we would run into one or the other relitivly soon.=m which is why the timeline kinda surprised me by making it seem like there is not much out there. But then planet Zola just kinda appeared in M7 so maybe they just left incidents like that off.

I also hear (rumor rumor!!!!) that the Hory Froating Head left some of the VFs named in the timeline purposefully un drawn so that a later show could use the VF name & drw what the wanted then.

I am a Pencil & Paper RPG gamer. There I said it & am out of the closet. I feel FABULOUS! I have been converting Macross stuff into Mekton Zeta rules & am thinking of doing domething with the SA & other Zent Fleets. Since I am unwilling to wait another 20 years I am going to use some earlier proposals for some of the Zentradi mecha as designs for the SA in my games. I can't quite bring myself to use MII or desecrate the name of Macross by using anything Palladium came up with. I figure this way I'll at least be using created by Studio Nue

BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!

[azrael]

...

Unless Max's comment was refering to remenants of Bodolza's Fleet.

It sounded like it would be inevitable that we would run into one or the other relitivly soon.=m which is why the timeline kinda surprised me by making it seem like there is not much out there.

Let's see....Zentradi-style power armors (most likely Zentradi) in Macross Plus...a Meltrandi fleet on M7...yeah, they are running into them...

But then planet Zola just kinda appeared in M7 so maybe they just left incidents like that off.

Zola is 1 planet out of [voice=Dr. Evil] billllions [/voice].

I also hear (rumor rumor!!!!) that the Hory Froating Head left some of the VFs named in the timeline purposefully un drawn so that a later show could use the VF name & drw what the wanted then.

390999[/snapback]

Yeah...lots of people do that...I'm still waiting for Viper Mark 3, 4, 5, and 6 to show up in BSG, but I ain't holding my breath....

Whatever you want to do for your RPG, go ahead. Its your RPG. You are free to do what you want.

[JB0]

The Zentraedi have mobile chemical labs and WMDs!!!!!

390985[/snapback]

They have... err, ARE... bioweapons!

[DestroidDefender]

Mac II. Yeah you lot are going to say Macross II is not canon but it's a great example of what we would be expectng the years after SDF:Macross. The Earth has to regularly defend itself from marauding Zentraedi fleets. They have no problem until the Marduk controlled Zentraedi show up, and wackiness ensues!

In fact, I don't really have any problem accepting MacII as canon since it takes place years later and half a galaxy away from Mac7.

[JB0]

Mac II. Yeah you lot are going to say Macross II is not canon but it's a great example of what we would be expectng the years after SDF:Macross. The Earth has to regularly defend itself from marauding Zentraedi fleets. They have no problem until the Marduk controlled Zentraedi show up, and wackiness ensues!

Why would we be expecting that?

If the zentradi know we're here, it means Bodol told his superiors about us, and they know he tried and failed to exterminate us.

They may not know HOW we annihilated an entire fleet, but they darn sure aren't going to muck about with the retaliatory strike. We'll see a rerun of the final battle, only instead of one fleet there'll be 2, 3, 4, or however many more they've deemed appropriate. If they're mad enough, we may see the entire SOLAR SYSTEM packed end to end with flying pickles of death.

Defold, open fire, and instead of a nearly dead Earth, we'll have a totally dead Earth, or perhaps even an asteroid belt for an Earth.

The same counterattack strategy won't work twice because A. we don't have a grand cannon to clear an assault corridor, and B. there's multiple flagships.

Once they see what's happening, they'll tighten defenses around the other ships, and a second kamikaze strike will be shot down. Minmay's song didn't render them completely helpless the first time, and they gunned down a lot of our fighters.

If the zentradi know we're here, we're dead. Period.

Mac2 is exactly what you WOULDN'T expect to have happen.

Hence the colony missions. Global recognized that we survived through sheer luck the first time, and that if Bodol was keeping the bosses informed or another fleet happened upon us through chance, we were screwed. So he started a project to get humanity spread among as many solar systems as possible, as soon as possible.

That's why Megaroad 1 was sent clear to the other side of the galaxy, even though it was humanity's second interstellar mission, first home-made interstellar vessel, and we still had a VERY low population. It was risky, but it spread us as far as possible as fast as possible.

In fact, I don't really have any problem accepting MacII as canon since it takes place years later and half a galaxy away from Mac7.

And there we are. Anything's fair game if it lets us take a dig at Mac7.

Edited April 16, 2006 by JB0

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

The minmay defense/attack plus basara's anima spiritua can beat anything. Kawamori didn't even want roy and shin to beat the bad guys using skill, just let a random dude in a monster save the world and have the dead hero float into space using magic.

That's where the government is going to be spending thier money.

More funding for valks with faces, boobs, mouths, speakers, and less on armor, pin point barrier, ships, and various mecha. The Sharon-Apple-controlled SDF1 was even beaten by a song that woke the human up to the hypnotic spell making the very machines we rely on inferior to a pop song.

I hope we do get a super vision army "clone wars" style prequel. They are so mysterious! I bet the protoculture created all thier technology through magic or they entered into another dimension and made a pact with demons for information on how to make the best weapons. Then brought all this stuff into our universe and this lead to chaos. (with the demons in the other dimension laughing thier asses off hoping to control PC all along after being freed from thier world)

Edited April 17, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Zinjo]

JBO makes a good point regarding why there hasn't been a second full scale invasion of the Sol system by the Zents.

The other things to consider are:

1. We don't know if Bodolza was the CNC of the Zent forces or just some regional general (it isn't made very clear -AFAIK). This would affect the Zentreadi forces either on an organizational or at least regional level.

2. The Zents primary enemy is the Supervision Army and thus it is reasonable to conclude the remaining forces are engaged in battle with SA fleets across the Galaxy. As far as SPACY "knew" there were no large fleets in our "corner" of the galaxy, one can reasonably assume.

However what happens in Mac II is possible due to several factors:

1. The apparent lack of reconstruction of the Grand Canons on both the Earth and the Moon.

2. The Supervision Army (what the Marduk should have been) would have no reason to be reluctant about attacking this world , especially if they encounter Zentreadi capital ships in the system.

3. The Earth would not be expecting a Supervision Army fleet.

4. It would be possible that 35 years after Mac 7, the Earth could be complacent with their regular victories over stray Zent fleets that they'd be ill prepared to take on a large fleet in battle.

5. Since the Supervision Army did/does consist of former protoculture citizens, it is entirely possible that they would utilize Anima Spiritia singers to maintain control over their giants' mind control.

Edited April 17, 2006 by Zinjo

[JB0]

JBO makes a good point regarding why there hasn't been a second full scale invasion of the Sol system by the Zents.

The other things to consider are:

1.  We don't know if Bodolza was the CNC of the Zent forces or just some regional general (it isn't made very clear -AFAIK). This would affect the Zentreadi forces either on an organizational or at least regional level.

I got the impression he was more of a regional general.

DYRL mentions there's thousands more fleets like his, and the Compendium says there's 1 or 2 thousand of his flagship vessel in existence.

While it's not impossible that the head zentran was running around with everyone else, typical entertainment logic says he'd have an even bigger ship.

I's also possible there IS NO head zentran. If all the regional general zentran reported to the protoculture, then the zentradi fleet would have been fractured into several subfleets when the PC empire collapsed.

2.  The Zents primary enemy is the Supervision Army and thus it is reasonable to conclude the remaining forces are engaged in battle with SA fleets across the Galaxy.  As far as SPACY "knew" there were no large fleets in our "corner" of the galaxy, one can reasonably assume.

Yah. We're off in the middle of nowhere from the empire's point of view, and thus from the SA and zentradi POVs as well.

[Rocket Punch]

2.  The Zents primary enemy is the Supervision Army and thus it is reasonable to conclude the remaining forces are engaged in battle with SA fleets across the Galaxy.  As far as SPACY "knew" there were no large fleets in our "corner" of the galaxy, one can reasonably assume.

Yah. We're off in the middle of nowhere from the empire's point of view, and thus from the SA and zentradi POVs as well.

391824[/snapback]

"Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the Western Spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small unregarded yellow sun. Orbiting this at a distance of roughly ninety-eight million miles is an utterly insignificant little blue-green planet whose ape-descended life forms are so amazingly primitive that they still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea."