1/60 Vf-0d Vs Vf-0s, Which Do You Want More?

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

It's a given that yamato would make a VF-0S regardless, I mean they're making it anyway. How would they be retarded enough to not make Roy's valk?

I guess the point of it all is to prove that people want a valk that isn't like the ole' vf1. Since the market is flooded with vf1, the vf0S might not have the same appeal based on this "OMG they are releasing the same thing" factor.

I reckon the only reason they started with 0S is because it is similar to the vf1. (it may go in order of difficulty)

If it isn't difficult to make a 0D and we finally do see more two seaters (that includes attempts at vf1 two seater) the people waiting for it will be happy they didn't have to buy something they didn't really want, to get it. (ie the non-completist people)

I think the order will be in terms of difficulty:

0S (just like a 1/48 vf1)

0A (easy to do the head)

0D (if the sales of the other two make the risk worth it)

I proposed that maybe yamato should include a checklist feedback card in the box of thier toys and on this registration card you tick box for what you would like to see. This way people can directly say what they'd buy, what they wouldn't buy and eliminate some of the risk. Don't like the variable monster or Qrau? say so and put down how much you would spend for something you would buy as a way to help predict what would be popular.

Finally they could see the yf19 demand from the feedback card and justify redoing the M+ line with 1/48 vf1 and 1/60 vf0 quality. (hopefully by this time we will have even better grade ie poseable hand with individual finger articulation)

Edited April 5, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[David Hingtgen]

I want a D, and only a D. And only if it's Shin's blue one. I really don't see the fascination with the VF-0A/S design, and am not going to buy one no matter how they paint it. I personally would only buy a D model VF-0 from Yamato. (And really want one)

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Boys the only trainer looking one I have seen is the VF-0B. And if yamato did make one based on the hasegawa kit then I would sure as hell buy one! And no even now I still liken the VF-0D to the F-15E strike eagle, not a trainer, a multirole strike fighter. Variable fighter multipurpose fighter bomber. Jack of all trades if ya will. Hell I wouldn't be at ALL surprised if the VF-0 family was branched like the F-16 family.....the F-16 had a cranked delta variant called the F-16XL that was a multirole fighter that lost out to the strike eagle.

[David Hingtgen]

We've seen Kawamori do the XL thing before. VF-11MAXL. He's obviously a big fan of making normal fighters into delta-winged strike fighters. Delta-winged versions of his valks appear in some design works sketches too I think.

PS about the VF-0D: If it was a trainer, then there'd be an instructor. You don't send up two rookies doing different jobs in a trainer. Trainers have a rookie pilot in the front, and an experienced pilot in the back. If the VF-0D was a trainer, Roy would have been in the back seat instructing Shin, not Edgar trying to learn how to work a new type of radar.

PPS---two-seater fighters are becoming more and more common. The Super Hornet, Super Flanker, Rafale, and I think Typhoon have all seen their orders switched around to become mostly two-seaters. At this rate, single-seaters will become rare and notable.

[jenius]

The VF-0D doesn't have bright Orange coloring so it's no trainer

Don't get me wrong, I understand where everyone is coming from, but doesn't Shin's entire new squad go out and train in the 0D? Or were they mixed with 0Ds and 0As? I understand the point of there not being any trainers present (other than Roy) and that, like the 1D, it could be used as a non-training vehicle, but if we limit it to the confines of the show, it would appear that the 0D is like a 0A with training wheels. The real point is, if you were gonna make a toy, and you had a choice between the plane the guy trained in or the plane the guy kicked butt in, wouldn't you go for the butt-kicking plane first?

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

The VF-0D doesn't have bright Orange coloring so it's no trainer

Don't get me wrong, I understand where everyone is coming from, but doesn't Shin's entire new squad go out and train in the 0D? Or were they mixed with 0Ds and 0As? I understand the point of there not being any trainers present (other than Roy) and that, like the 1D, it could be used as a non-training vehicle, but if we limit it to the confines of the show, it would appear that the 0D is like a 0A with training wheels. The real point is, if you were gonna make a toy, and you had a choice between the plane the guy trained in or the plane the guy kicked butt in, wouldn't you go for the butt-kicking plane first?

388209[/snapback]

Thing is its never stated anywhere that the 0D is a trainer at all. Maybe the VF-0B, but not the D. The B looks like an A with training wheels. The D is for the most part an all new altogether different almagation with just commanalitie for some parts, not most.

[David Hingtgen]

You don't completely redesign the plane for a trainer version. It'd completely defeat the point. If you're going to use a canard-equipped delta-winged VF-0D as a VF-0S trainer, you might as well use a B-2 stealth bomber to train F-15 pilots... Planes vary a lot in handling: F-15E guys do not train in the F-15D, despite the F-15D being a dedicated F-15 trainer. It's too different. The VF-0D is far too different from the VF-0A/S for training.

And again---having Edgar in the back seat is about as useful for Shin's piloting technique as a puppy in the back seat.

There is nothing trainer-esque about the VF-0D in any way IMHO.

Just because all the newbies got them just means they were all being trained in that plane. You don't go train a bunch of random people in random jobs in random planes. The VF-0D guys all train in VF-0D's, and VF-0S guys train in VF-0S's. If it was a mix of VF-0A, S, and D types that would have made no sense, as they'd all have different capabilities and responses and little training could have occured---might as well have trained them one on one instead of a group in that case.

Roy can train any pilot because he's just that good. And specifically he was training them in "basic movement and controls of a valk", not anything really specific that a VF-0*D* instructor was needed. But they needed to be flying D's to get used to its specific handling characteristics---you wouldn't put a guy in a D to learn how an A or S handles because it'd handle completely differently.

And if Kawamori is keeping up on aircraft trends (as I'm sure he does) he may very well have noticed that some of the biggest trends in the last few years have been canards (especially with delta wings) and the two-seater versions being more prevalent.

Perhaps Kawamori was intending to show that dedicated single-seat fighters (VF-0S) are on the way out, with the two-seat multi-role version (VF-0D) as the most common type?

Edited April 6, 2006 by David Hingtgen

[specr0101]

"And again---having Edgar in the back seat is about as useful for Shin's piloting technique as a puppy in the back seat. "

[vlenhoff]

Regarding this poll, I have already secured a couple of VF-0S. So in my case the 0D is the most logical choice. It also looks very different from other existing Macross mecha in the fighter mode. I want them all anyway

[recon]

I would say im game for any of the variants, be it VF-0S/A/D cos they they all look gorgeous. Hopefully we can see some SV-51s as well as some destroids and monsters being done as well

Cheers

Edited April 6, 2006 by recon

[vlenhoff]

1/48 fan racer

Stampede armor

[jenius]

You don't completely redesign the plane for a trainer version. It'd completely defeat the point. If you're going to use a canard-equipped delta-winged VF-0D as a VF-0S trainer, you might as well use a B-2 stealth bomber to train F-15 pilots... Planes vary a lot in handling: F-15E guys do not train in the F-15D, despite the F-15D being a dedicated F-15 trainer. It's too different. The VF-0D is far too different from the VF-0A/S for training.

Okay, so is your argument that Macross Zero is just written poorly? Is your argument that Shin wasn't being trained in a VF-OD? I'm confused. I'm pretty sure, it has been a while since I watched it, but isn't the 0D primarily used to train people in the show? I think we get to see Shin pilot one underwater and then get blown up running away with Mao's treasure but that's it. So, I ask again, if you're a toy company and this OVA exists, do you make the plane that was used to train people or one of the planes that was used to kick butt? I still think the logical sense is the butt-kicking plane. Sure, there might be websites somewhere that tout how super-awesome the 0D actually is but I think most the viewers will remember it as the plane that Shin learns how to pilot a variable fighter. That's my argument and I'm sticking to it (unless I'm forgetting a really cool VF-OD fight scene... which is entirely possible but I still think the 0A and 0S are the true glory-hounds). For me, while I do love the 0D and hope they make one, it's a no brainer that you go with the planes that fought over the planes that trained.

[David Hingtgen]

My argument is that the VF-0D isn't a trainer, it's a fully dedicated front-line striker. Any plane can be used for training, but that doesn't make it a trainer.

And if I was a toy company, I'd make the really cool interesting plane that was on screen a lot (blue/grey two-tone VF-0D) that people keep asking for and voting for in the polls that's new and different from what they have, not the dull boring lackey plane that was on screen for 5 mins, did a Cobra, then flew away on green magic feathers (low vis VF-0A). Nor the "just like your 1/48 Roy, only slightly less angular" VF-0S.

Edited April 6, 2006 by David Hingtgen

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

My argument is that the VF-0D isn't a trainer, it's a fully dedicated front-line striker.    Any plane can be used for training, but that doesn't make it a trainer. 

And if I was a toy company, I'd make the really cool interesting plane that was on screen a lot (blue/grey two-tone VF-0D) that people keep asking for and voting for in the polls that's new and different from what they have, not the dull boring lackey plane that was on screen for 5 mins, did a Cobra, then flew away on green magic feathers (low vis VF-0A).  Nor the "just like your 1/48 Roy, only slightly less angular" VF-0S.

388293[/snapback]

I agree, and not to mention most people tend to identify/and usually buy the first version that was used by the character first. Look how many people wanted a 1/48 VF-1J Hikaru. Look how many begged for a TV VF-1A max and TV Milia Qrau. Sure her DYRL version came out but people wanted the one she first showed up in.

Also again with the VF-0D debate...

Its like the F-14, there is NO trainer version of that aircraft. Rookie pilots/RIO's in the RAG/FRS man the plane. There training consists of flying and learning the weapon systems. In no way is it a trainer plane. Thats just how it is and how they start.

And plus the only reason IMHO that Shin even flew a VF-0A later on was that his designated fighter was already blown to bits and Edgar was injured so couldn't do his RIO duties till he recovered.

And besides.....if you want to talk about more screen grabbing attention and being more flashy, the VF-0D wins hands down. The VF-0A was only used by him in the last episode and wasn't that eye catching. This doesn't mean I wouldn't want one(I would) but the VF-0D is a much more elegant design.

[jenius]

And besides.....if you want to talk about more screen grabbing attention and being more flashy, the VF-0D wins hands down. The VF-0A was only used by him in the last episode and wasn't that eye catching. This doesn't mean I wouldn't want one(I would) but the VF-0D is a much more elegant design.

Uh, we're comparing the VF-0S to the 0D. Roy kicks major arse in his 0S and has the viewer's attention in a big way. Shin falls down a lot and has his 0D blown to bits when he's at the helm of it.

The argument about "is the 0D a trainer" is moot. It IS, without question, the vehicle Shin is TRAINED in. True, he might only upgrade to a 0A because his 0D gets ruined but that doesn't make me wrong. He is TRAINED in a 0D, he kicks butt in a 0A, and Roy claims ownage in his 0S. The 0S is the EASY logical first choice. Add that to the fact that Roy has a huge cult following and many people found Shin less likeable and voila, we all get a 0S. Also, you mentioned airtime, which vehicle wins there, the 0S or the 0D? Again, the 0S.

Now, questions of retooling aside, if the decision for Yamato was the 0A or the 0D I could definitely see the 0D being the winner based on everything you've said. First on screen, more airtime, that sort of thing.

Edit - Pointless technicality, Shin pilots a 0A before a 0D... for about half a second before Nora plays with him and Roy chases her off. Totally pointless fact, not bringing that up for anything other than as a fun fact. Obviously it wasn't "his" plane. More pointlessness... Hikaru's first valk piloted is the 1D but there isn't nearly as much clamor for that. Again, pointless, 'cause it's not "his." Still, if you posted a poll now that said "What do you want more, Hikaru's 1J or 1D the 1D would definitely win.... because we all already have his 1J.

Edited April 6, 2006 by jenius

[Excillon]

I want the VF-0S, just not for the price it's going for. That's rediculous for a 1/60, and even pushing it for a 1/48 for that matter.

[buddhafabio]

I want the VF-0S, just not for the price it's going for. That's rediculous for a 1/60, and even pushing it for a 1/48 for that matter.

388318[/snapback]

I am not too keyed up on the price of either also. but compare it to previous versions of valks. you get what you pay for. if these were compared with transformers i feel they compare with the mpc Primes and the others, i.e. bandais, toynamis would be like the 80s version of prime.

some one do the us a huge favior and when the first one to get their 1/60 with a decent digital camera, and a few 1/48s take picture side by side in all modes. just so people can fathom the size of these toys.

if i had completed my vf-0s and my vf-1d models i could do a side by side comparison with a f-14. as i have a 1/72nd f-14 already done. but i can tell youthat it is bigger then a 1/60 vf-1a sitting near it.

the length of the vf-0s is 18.69 meters

the length of the vf-1s is 11.3 meters

the length of an f-14 is 18.96 meters

so if the vf-0s is almost the size of an f-14 it will be alot bigger then the current 1/60s except for the monster and the other one.

Edited April 6, 2006 by buddhafabio

[ghostryder]

I want the VF-0S, just not for the price it's going for. That's rediculous for a 1/60, and even pushing it for a 1/48 for that matter.

388318[/snapback]

Yes, check the toys section, there are existing shots of the VF-0 next to a 1/48 VF-1 in battroid. It's a bit shorter than the 1/48 in battroid, but will be a bit longer in fighter mode, accroding to Graham.

[Coota0]

Just flipped though Macross Zero, Shin loses his F-14, then gets rescued and taken aboard the carrier where he has a conversation with Roy about wanting to fly a single seater becuase he feels responsible for Shin's death, then Edgar shows up and he agrees to fly the two seat model, seeming to prove that the two seater is a combat aircraft not a trainer. The fact that the D also has the same head as the A leads me believe this as well.

Edited April 6, 2006 by Coota0

[Coota0]

Edit - Pointless technicality, Shin pilots a 0A before a 0D... for about half a second before Nora plays with him and Roy chases her off. 

388308[/snapback]

When does he do this? Which episode?

I got the impression that you were saying this happened before he flew the D, or do you mean at the end in Ep. 5?

[jenius]

When does he do this? Which episode?

I got the impression that you were saying this happened before he flew the D, or do you mean at the end in Ep. 5?

It happens in the second episode (I think). You seemed to be flipping Shin and Edgar around a abit in your posts though. Shin is the pilot, Edgar is his "backseat." When Shin is on the island he protects Mao when a 0A crashes near him. He gets up and runs into the GERWALK mode, highly damaged 0A, turns it around and starts shooting at Nora. Nora comes down and straddles him, ready to deliver the death blow, when the 0S lands hard beside her forcing her to retreat rapidly. Then Shin is brought aboard the carrier to train in the 0D.

Edited April 6, 2006 by jenius

[Coota0]

When does he do this? Which episode?

I got the impression that you were saying this happened before he flew the D, or do you mean at the end in Ep. 5?

Nora comes down and straddles him, ready to deliver the death blow, when the 0S lands hard beside her forcing her to retreat rapidly. Then Shin is brought aboard the carrier to train in the 0D.

388403[/snapback]

Ok, guess I was in such a hurry I skipped through that scene. The "rescue" was symantics, I was referring to Shin, I was talking about his "rescue" from the island.

Nevermind I relaized after looking over the original post again, that I typed Shin when I meant Shin and then typed Shin again when I meant Edgar.

Edited April 6, 2006 by Coota0