Official Transformers Super Thread 3

[Fit For Natalie]

I'm impressed with how the flaps on the wing fold away so the wings have the angular, pointed shape in robot mode (like on the cartoon and various comic art); the intakes tilt forward, again a cartoon model reference.

I wonder where the rear stabilisers go, though.

[F360°]

I wonder where the rear stabilisers go, though.

393893[/snapback]

Most likey just folding to the side of the leg.

[VF-0S FAN]

I must buy at least 6 new MP : Starscream, Skywarp, Thundercracker, Dirge, Thrust and Ramjet . I 'll have to sell my brand new MIMB Low Vis

[Twoducks]

Wow, all that robot detail looks freaking fantastic!!

You'll probably have to panel line some of it to bring it out (but it sure will be worth the time).

I like how even the guns have a special mechanism so you don't have to stick them manually to the arms.

Don’t know if the teeth face has been scraped, but the smart-ass evil smirk face fits perfectly this double-crossing artificial bastard .

One thing though, Starscream design makes it difficult to have any waist movement. Any ideas how they could solve that? The seat looks like it folds or something so maybe it has something to do with the waist.

[Twoducks]

Translation of the article on Starscream

Found the link here

I'm really looking forward to this thing.

[Ivan]

Wow, looks cool. Does this mean Graham will finally give in and purchase a transformer?

[Dangard Ace]

Wow, looks cool.  Does this mean Graham will finally give in and purchase a transformer?

393948[/snapback]

Is hell freezing over?

[David Hingtgen]

I'm guessing the stabilators simply fold up and lay next to the v.stabs---nowhere else for them to go. I really should go to TFW2005 and make a "basic parts of the F-15" post, as we get 50 people calling the same part 50 different wrong terms, confusing everyone...

What I really want to see are the missile launchers, as opposed to the cannons. I hope the robot-mode cannons aren't the only option to put under the wings in fighter mode.

PS--Fit For Natalie---I've heard nothing about the Hasbro Classics SS being an F-15. Is that confirmed or just a good guess? I was highly unimpressed with Astrotrain, and frankly don't expect the new line's jets to resemble real ones any more than G1 Hot Rod resembles a real car.

[Veritas]

Alt. Mirage out of package shots on TFW:

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=98335

Edited April 24, 2006 by Veritas

[GreenGuy42]

Well, Mirage doesn't look as bad as I had thought. I like it, for the most part... still not sure on his little pistols.

Edited April 25, 2006 by GreenGuy42

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I'm guessing the stabilators simply fold up and lay next to the v.stabs---nowhere else for them to go.  I really should go to TFW2005 and make a "basic parts of the F-15" post, as we get 50 people calling the same part 50 different wrong terms, confusing everyone...

What I really want to see are the missile launchers, as opposed to the cannons.  I hope the robot-mode cannons aren't the only option to put under the wings in fighter mode.

PS--Fit For Natalie---I've heard nothing about the Hasbro Classics SS being an F-15.  Is that confirmed or just a good guess?  I was highly unimpressed with Astrotrain, and frankly don't expect the new line's jets to resemble real ones any more than G1 Hot Rod resembles a real car.

393979[/snapback]

The proto of classics SS shown@botcon was said to be an F-15.

And please post@tfw2005 regarding to parts, no offense to them, but most of them are out of the loop concerning fighter planes.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

The lineart of MP03 looks nice. The face is just like in the movie.

If they do a jetfire with incredible amount of detail, I am so going to buy it.

As a kid it was the only transformer I wanted above optimus prime. And when you think about it, he is significant just because the poor autobots are short on air power against the decepticons so he stands out so much.

[Fit For Natalie]

I'm guessing the stabilators simply fold up and lay next to the v.stabs---nowhere else for them to go.  I really should go to TFW2005 and make a "basic parts of the F-15" post, as we get 50 people calling the same part 50 different wrong terms, confusing everyone...

What I really want to see are the missile launchers, as opposed to the cannons.  I hope the robot-mode cannons aren't the only option to put under the wings in fighter mode.

PS--Fit For Natalie---I've heard nothing about the Hasbro Classics SS being an F-15.  Is that confirmed or just a good guess?  I was highly unimpressed with Astrotrain, and frankly don't expect the new line's jets to resemble real ones any more than G1 Hot Rod resembles a real car.

393979[/snapback]

According to the control art that came with THS02 G1 Convoy, his cluster bombs (drop tank looking things) are an option. Starscream only really carried those two payloads that magically changed depending on his modes

Classics Starscream, as a highly detailed F-15 was shown on a slide at Hasbro's Panel during Botcon 2005. His robot mode was similar to this, a detailed cartoon model-style robot mode with long laser cannons. No pics are available as pics aren't allowed during the panel.

As for Astrotrain, well, that's the problem with Triple Changers - most normal TF and normal japanese transforming mecha usually deal with only two true forms, or in the case of the Valkyries Gerwalk, a half-assed middle form. I'm sorry, but from a Transformers perspective, it's true - Gerwalk isn't really much of a third form. Or second form depending on the order you view.

True Triple Changers have to sacrifice one form's realism for the sake of the others. In G1, it was the robot mode, and to a lesser extent, the shuttle mode. In Classics Astro, its the bullet train mode. I'm quite impressed that they managed to do it at all given the inherent engineering difficulties.

Frankly, I'm not a fan of real-world realism for realism's sake in Transformers. Realism is nice, but depending upon it shows a lack of imagination, and a lack of a sense of fun. Imagination is what drives the sucess of Transformers.

-FFN

Edited April 25, 2006 by Fit For Natalie

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Well I think it might be important for cars with only two modes. Who wants a car that doesn't look like one? It's supposed to be a disguise so it should look real in true spirit of the G1 show.

This is one of the reasons I like alternators. The detail, and that when it is in vehicle mode, it looks like a real model car and transforms into a cool robot.

The thing about transformation in the transformers is that if they choose to do more fictional stuff, where the bots becomes non-existant vehicles that no one can identify, it means they can kinda invent whatever vehicle they want and explain it away much more easily. (like cheat a litte bit)

I think the disguise thing is what makes the TF universe "cool". Sort of like how in a james bond movie sometimes you have a vehicle armed with secret gadgets and weapons inside them, but on the outside it can fool normal people.

In macross it is a different story: transformations actually affect the potential of the vehicle. Without alternate modes, you can't fight as well in on the ground in fighter as you would in battroid mode etc. The transformation lets pilots adapt to the situation. Whereas in TF the 'disguise' thing is more important. The aliens want to blend in with the environment and not be seen. (I find that a cool concept too. Enough that I would much prefer the TF toys to be and look like realistic vehicles that don't show any sign they are robots and really hide stuff well enough to fool anyone looking on the outside)

If they are robots they should ultimately not complain what form they can take. so transformation should not be any more a burden than having humanoid form. But the realism helps me to imagine that the concept of using transformation as a true disguise, is really possible, and adds to the value of the toy.

Edited April 25, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Fit For Natalie]

One problem I have with realism for realism's sake is that it stifles creativity on the design side of things.

Which is more of a challenge? Creating a non-real world design that's recognisable as a type of vehicle or basing it upon something that already exists? It is not cheating - if anything, its a different challenge.

Realism has the challenge of turning an established design (or a composite of several real designs) into a good-looking robot with an interesting transformation, yet maintain its realistic design.

Fake designs have the same robot and transformation challenges, but has a challenge of creating something futuristic (either outlandishishly high tech, alien or something possibly from the real near future) that is at the same time identifiyable as a type or class of vehicle.

There's also the chance that an outlandish design may inspire something in the real world. Eg, an outlandish looking concept car may be used for inspiration for a more conservatively designed real car. Or hell, over time, that 'outlandish' design may seem less and less strange over time.

Granted, many fake designs wouldn't work well in Earth-based settings. I guess what I am saying is non-real designs add flavour to Transformers, a line that would otherwise be filled with similar-looking cars, trucks and planes.

Oh, Classics will have a new Grimlock, and I'm looking forward to that *thumbs up*

Edited April 25, 2006 by Fit For Natalie

[bigkid24]

One problem I have with realism for realism's sake is that it stifles creativity on the design side of things.

Which is more of a challenge? Creating a non-real world design that's recognisable as a type of vehicle or basing it upon something that already exists? It is not cheating - if anything, its a different challenge.

Realism has the challenge of turning an established design (or a composite of several real designs) into a good-looking robot with an interesting transformation, yet maintain its realistic design.

Fake designs have the same robot and transformation challenges, but has a challenge of creating something futuristic (either outlandishishly high tech, alien or something possibly from the real near future) that is at the same time identifiyable as a type or class of vehicle.

There's also the chance that an outlandish design may inspire something in the real world. Eg, an outlandish looking concept car may be used for inspiration for a more conservatively designed real car. Or hell, over time, that 'outlandish' design may seem less and less strange over time.

Granted, many fake designs wouldn't work well in Earth-based settings. I guess what I am saying is non-real designs add flavour to Transformers, a line that would otherwise be filled with similar-looking cars, trucks and planes.

Oh, Classics will have a new Grimlock, and I'm looking forward to that *thumbs up*

394147[/snapback]

I prefer realism because they are supposed to be in disguise. All the Cybertron/GF stuff is too futuristic and weird for me. I think a real world design can take plenty of imagination to make a good bot form. Gobots showed a real lack of imagination in transforming to robots but TFs I think has usually done a good job where they don't look too much like cars standing up on end.

My problem with non-real designs is that they tend to look too goofy in their alt mode. Then they don't look much better in their robot mode.

I think the movie era transformers are some of the worst: Hot Rod, Blurr, Kup. I don't know how they were actually designed but it seems like they made the robot form first and then shoehorned them into random looking futuristic vehicles. In my opinion that takes less imagination than shoe-horning it into a real world vehicle.

[promethuem5]

Oh my god!! MP Starscream looks superb. Words cannot describe how amazing that looks.... Here's hoping it isn't topheavy like MP Convoy.

[Metal_Massacre_79]

My apologies for not being able to read the text in the picture.

[Fit For Natalie]

I prefer realism because they are supposed to be in disguise.  All the Cybertron/GF stuff is too futuristic and weird for me.  I think a real world design can take plenty of imagination to make a good bot form.  Gobots showed a real lack of imagination in transforming to robots but TFs I think has usually done a good job where they don't look too much like cars standing up on end.

My problem with non-real designs is that they tend to look too goofy in their alt mode.  Then they don't look much better in their robot mode. 

I think the movie era transformers are some of the worst: Hot Rod, Blurr, Kup.  I don't know how they were actually designed but it seems like they made the robot form first and then shoehorned them into random looking futuristic vehicles.  In my opinion that takes less imagination than shoe-horning it into a real world vehicle.

394209[/snapback]

Re: Cybertron

You're kidding right? That line has a large number of based on real world vehicles/passably real vehicles - probably the highest number of the last 5 years - yet maintains a balance with Cybertronian/alien vehicles.

Hell, You're lucky to get fairly realistic vehicles at all given the majority of the series is set on other planets.

TFs are designed alt mode first. Then they try and figure out how to make a robot out of it. Rarely, have they designed a robot first, alt mode second unless it was for a special version of an established design, like Masterpiece Convoy.

[baronv]

Starscream MP should be great if the quality is on par with Optimus Prime. I finally took him out of his box when I moved and the quality is great as well as the posability.

Let me tell you my opinion why Transformers works (probably mostly for G1 fans), when TF went after Transformers: The movie, where the designs went non-realistic, the show suffered and died out. The reason Transformers worked for me and my friends was that the robots fit it with reality, same as the valks and Macross. Once it went into sci-fi weird looks it was hard to connect to the show since it lost it's realism in design and to make everyday items look cool is harder I think than making up a new design that can look like anything. Look at all the Japanese anime and their non-realistic designs and does any really stand out?

[Fit For Natalie]

Well, Transformers G1 died because it was just a fad that was losing steam - remember, back then it was just a another toyline that already had sucess for for 3 years. Its natural for kids to grow up and move onto Nintendo or other newer, hipper fads, and as such, the line begins to falter and lose popularity.

The realism is king explanation doesn't really explain why Beast Wars, Armada, Energon were sucessful, given they're not the most 'realistic' looking lines.

Many of the old-school established fandom were all 'G1 fans' too, because that was all they had. But for the most part, they eventually embraced Beast Wars and appreciated what came after, too.

[Twoducks]

Cool!

talking about photoshop... rex-203 has photoshoped the sketch into SS and SW colors... sunstorm and thundercracker should be coming up soon.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/REX...scream_robo.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/REX...scream_robo.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/REX...arp_robotmo.jpg

(Quoted from here)

[Powered Convoy]

MP Starscream should be a work of art. It'll be like a Yamato Valkyrie design aesthetics, higher durability, and a great robot design. I'm so pleased Kawamori has a part in this. It'll be fantastic. Now they need to make Skywarp and Thundercracker and release them simultaneously.

Randy

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Let me tell you my opinion why Transformers works (probably mostly for G1 fans), when TF went after Transformers: The movie, where the designs went non-realistic, the show suffered and died out. The reason Transformers worked for me and my friends was that the robots fit it with reality, same as the valks and Macross. Once it went into sci-fi weird looks it was hard to connect to the show since it lost it's realism in design and to make everyday items look cool is harder I think than making up a new design that can look like anything. Look at all the Japanese anime and their non-realistic designs and does any really stand out?

Especially in shows like gundam where the TF is more like robot lying down. The cool thing about vehicles, is because they are machines as well, you appeal to the fan of that vehicle (car nuts) as well as fans of science fiction. (could a robot really be made to drive the vehicle by itself? Why not? )

But when you say: "they live on an alien planet and they are alien vehicles" it opens up the possibilty that the vehicles are just there for half assed reasons and the toy designers can make up any excuse. Example: if the aliens can fight in humanoid form, what advantage would there be in turning into another object? There wouldn't be. So now we don't have to put as much thought into the complexity of the transformation because we don't have to make an alt mode accurate to any real life thing.

In the cartoon (or was it the comic?) it made sense the computer (teletran 1?) thought cars were the 'alien' lifeforms so creating robots that look like 'aliens' as a disguise, was a beneficial trick. Not only could you take advantage of what that the machine's purpose was (example the constucticons are acutally useful as construction vehicles and are seen being used) but natives would not get suspicious. The good guy robots could then go to any planet to hide from the decepticons (note how the autobots are like a resistance that has to go underground?) and fight both 1. with the advantages of being machines that can get work done efficiently, and 2. without those people giving clues to enemy where they are. (becuase they are disguised amongst common objects in that world. Making it easier to stay hidden. Although in the cartoon this rarely happened, as a toy it works when people see it and don't realise that the toy is a robot in disguise - the alternators really do look like ordinary car models on the outside.)

For me the diguise element (and the fact that they were machines) was what made it cool. You can have a transforming "alien tree", or a transforming "alien" monster, but where is the usefulness in that as a toy which transforms to look like an object another person sees as a disguise and is actually fooled by it? You'd want to transform into something that can be used and stuff. (that doesn't mean the insides have to be functional parts and mimmick the real thing, but that on the outside at least you will not be seen to attract attention or give away your position to an enemy)

This is why I didn't like Beast wars. I don't mind beasts amoungst the machines to break up the team and introduce some variety, but not as a "theme" (like everyone is a beast). The dinobots were mainly cool because dinosaurs are a "cool" animal and deadly real life animals, than because kids necessarily think robots are better as beasts rather than vehicles/machines. You look at Grimlock as a dumb dinosaur with no intelligence becuase he is like this big dumb animal. If grimlock is a car that personality of a Giant imposing T-Rex is lost. You don't look at grimlock in car mode as this "big dumb animal" who goes into a rage and gets out of control and won't listen to commands when he is turned into a machine. So It's not that I'm against beasts if thought has also gone into the characters and thier personality as well.

I'm also not saying that as a tv series the story of beast wars was not good, or that the toyline itself was poor quality, but that the concept of prime as a truck IMO is more appealing to me than prime as an ape. Mainly because I like the idea that a robot transforms into something cool or "useful". (like jetfighters are cool cuz they would fly in the air, a construction vehicle can be used, a cassette can be used to record for spy purposes, a gun can be held to actually shoot people, cars can be used to actually drive to a place with little fuss etc)

Edited April 26, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[eriku]

Let me tell you my opinion why Transformers works (probably mostly for G1 fans), when TF went after Transformers: The movie, where the designs went non-realistic, the show suffered and died out. The reason Transformers worked for me and my friends was that the robots fit it with reality, same as the valks and Macross. Once it went into sci-fi weird looks it was hard to connect to the show since it lost it's realism in design and to make everyday items look cool is harder I think than making up a new design that can look like anything. Look at all the Japanese anime and their non-realistic designs and does any really stand out?

Especially in shows like gundam where the TF is more like robot lying down. The cool thing about vehicles, is because they are machines as well, you appeal to the fan of that vehicle (car nuts) as well as fans of science fiction. (could a robot really be made to drive the vehicle by itself? Why not? )

But when you say: "they live on an alien planet and they are alien vehicles" it opens up the possibilty that the vehicles are just there for half assed reasons and the toy designers can make up any excuse. Example: if the aliens can fight in humanoid form, what advantage would there be in turning into another object? There wouldn't be. So now we don't have to put as much thought into the complexity of the transformation because we don't have to make an alt mode accurate to any real life thing.

In the cartoon (or was it the comic?) it made sense the computer (teletran 1?) thought cars were the 'alien' lifeforms so creating robots that look like 'aliens' as a disguise, was a beneficial trick. Not only could you take advantage of what that the machine's purpose was (example the constucticons are acutally useful as construction vehicles and are seen being used) but natives would not get suspicious. The good guy robots could then go to any planet to hide from the decepticons (note how the autobots are like a resistance that has to go underground?) and fight both 1. with the advantages of being machines that can get work done efficiently, and 2. without those people giving clues to enemy where they are. (becuase they are disguised amongst common objects in that world. Making it easier to stay hidden. Although in the cartoon this rarely happened, as a toy it works when people see it and don't realise that the toy is a robot in disguise - the alternators really do look like ordinary car models on the outside.)

For me the diguise element (and the fact that they were machines) was what made it cool. You can have a transforming "alien tree", or a transforming "alien" monster, but where is the usefulness in that as a toy which transforms to look like an object another person sees as a disguise and is actually fooled by it? You'd want to transform into something that can be used and stuff. (that doesn't mean the insides have to be functional parts and mimmick the real thing, but that on the outside at least you will not be seen to attract attention or give away your position to an enemy)

This is why I didn't like Beast wars. I don't mind beasts amoungst the machines to break up the team and introduce some variety, but not as a "theme" (like everyone is a beast). The dinobots were mainly cool because dinosaurs are a "cool" animal and deadly real life animals, than because kids necessarily think robots are better as beasts rather than vehicles/machines. You look at Grimlock as a dumb dinosaur with no intelligence becuase he is like this big dumb animal. If grimlock is a car that personality of a Giant imposing T-Rex is lost. You don't look at grimlock in car mode as this "big dumb animal" who goes into a rage and gets out of control and won't listen to commands when he is turned into a machine. So It's not that I'm against beasts if thought has also gone into the characters and thier personality as well.

I'm also not saying that as a tv series the story of beast wars was not good, or that the toyline itself was poor quality, but that the concept of prime as a truck IMO is more appealing to me than prime as an ape. Mainly because I like the idea that a robot transforms into something cool or "useful". (like jetfighters are cool cuz they would fly in the air, a construction vehicle can be used, a cassette can be used to record for spy purposes, a gun can be held to actually shoot people, cars can be used to actually drive to a place with little fuss etc)

394364[/snapback]

That pretty much sums up my own feelings. The writing on Beast Wars was better than most TF series, but the fact the characters were transformers really seemed inconsequential to me, almost pointless. Why did they really even need to transform into anything, especially animals? The world they were in just seemed so lifeless and void of anything that wasn't a Predacon or a Maximal that there seemed to be little reason for any kind of alt mode, kind of like how there seems to be little reason for any alt modes on Cybertron.

I'll never argue that G1 is better than Beasts or demand TRUKK not MUNKKY!, because different people like different things. In my opinion, beast Transformers and vehicle Transformers are apples and oranges. People like what they like and it's nice to have variety to appeal to different tastes. On a whole the newer 'random sci-fi vehicle' designs haven't appealed much to me, but there are some that I really enjoy (GF Prime, the upocming WWI Prime) so I'm glad that aspect of Transformers is there, too. There's plenty of room for all sorts with this franchise.

[Fit For Natalie]

But when you say: "they live on an alien planet and they are alien vehicles" it opens up the possibilty that the vehicles are just there for half assed reasons and the toy designers can make up any excuse. Example: if the aliens can fight in humanoid form, what advantage would there be in turning into another object? There wouldn't be. So now we don't have to put as much thought into the complexity of the transformation because we don't have to make an alt mode accurate to any real life thing.

Vehicle modes on Cybertron served a purpose. They were not 'half-assed reasons' they 'made up'.

1. Practicality: Alt modes have the advantage of allowing the robots to travel faster (either on the ground or in flight) than they can in robot mode. Some alt modes have more armour, some alt modes have more firepower than their robot modes, but have the disadvantage of the lack of dexterity the robot mode provides.

And certain alt modes have functions and features that would not be possible, too cumbersome or unwieldly in robot mode.

2. Disguise: In the cartoon, on Cybertron the robots still utilised larger non-transforming transportation. Disguise allowed the Autobots to make hit-and-run attacks on the unsuspecting Decepticons.

Alien looking vehicles are pefectly reasonable on alien worlds. On Velocitron the robots whole culture is based upon racing, so they are primarily designed for speed. On Gigantion the robots build cities, so they are designed as construction vehicles and excavators.

In the cartoon (or was it the comic?) it made sense the computer (teletran 1?) thought cars were the 'alien' lifeforms so creating robots that look like 'aliens' as a disguise, was a beneficial trick. Not only could you take advantage of what that the machine's purpose was (example the constucticons are acutally useful as construction vehicles and are seen being used) but natives would not get suspicious. The good guy robots could then go to any planet to hide from the decepticons (note how the autobots are like a resistance that has to go underground?) and fight both 1. with the advantages of being machines that can get work done efficiently, and 2. without those people giving clues to enemy where they are. (becuase they are disguised amongst common objects in that world. Making it easier to stay hidden. Although in the cartoon this rarely happened, as a toy it works when people see it and don't realise that the toy is a robot in disguise - the alternators really do look like ordinary car models on the outside.)

I believe you just made my point for me, but on Earth.

The Autobots were for the most part, civilians - engineers, scientists, labourers, archivists. Optimus Prime himself was originally the archivist Optronix in the Dreamwave War Within comic.

For me the diguise element (and the fact that they were machines) was what made it cool. You can have a transforming "alien tree", or a transforming "alien" monster, but where is the usefulness in that as a toy which transforms to look like an object another person sees as a disguise and is actually fooled by it? You'd want to transform into something that can be used and stuff. (that doesn't mean the insides have to be functional parts and mimmick the real thing, but that on the outside at least you will not be seen to attract attention or give away your position to an enemy)

Erm, you do realise Transformers was not set wholly on Earth, right?

This is why I didn't like Beast wars. I don't mind beasts amoungst the machines to break up the team and introduce some variety, but not as a "theme" (like everyone is a beast). The dinobots were mainly cool because dinosaurs are a "cool" animal and deadly real life animals, than because kids necessarily think robots are better as beasts rather than vehicles/machines. You look at Grimlock as a dumb dinosaur with no intelligence becuase he is like this big dumb animal. If grimlock is a car that personality of a Giant imposing T-Rex is lost. You don't look at grimlock in car mode as this "big dumb animal" who goes into a rage and gets out of control and won't listen to commands when he is turned into a machine. So It's not that I'm against beasts if thought has also gone into the characters and thier personality as well.

The G1 cartoon origin for the Dinobots is non-canon nowadays. Grimlock was kind of a tank-like vehicle on Cybertron, and is portrayed as an intelligent military commander who simply says little, with a speech pattern suggesting low intelligence, even thoigh he isn't. The other Dinobots (or Dynobots are they were called on Cybertron) had varying intelligence, though Sludge really is stupid.

I'm also not saying that as a tv series the story of beast wars was not good, or that the toyline itself was poor quality, but that the concept of prime as a truck IMO is more appealing to me than prime as an ape. Mainly because I like the idea that a robot transforms into something cool or "useful". (like jetfighters are cool cuz they would fly in the air, a construction vehicle can be used, a cassette can be used to record for spy purposes, a gun can be held to actually shoot people, cars can be used to actually drive to a place with little fuss etc)

394364[/snapback]

Well its a good thing then that Optimus Primal is not Optimus Prime. Optimus is an affectionate nickname given to him by his crew.

That pretty much sums up my own feelings.  The writing on Beast Wars was better than most TF series, but the fact the characters were transformers really seemed inconsequential to me, almost pointless.  Why did they really even need to transform into anything, especially animals?  The world they were in just seemed so lifeless and void of anything that wasn't a Predacon or a Maximal that there seemed to be little reason for any kind of alt mode, kind of like how there seems to be little reason for any alt modes on Cybertron.   

I'll never argue that G1 is better than Beasts or demand TRUKK not MUNKKY!, because different people like different things.  In my opinion, beast Transformers and vehicle Transformers are apples and oranges.  People like what they like and it's nice to have variety to appeal to different tastes.  On a whole the newer 'random sci-fi vehicle' designs haven't appealed much to me, but there are some that I really enjoy (GF Prime, the upocming WWI Prime) so I'm glad that aspect of Transformers is there, too.  There's plenty of room for all sorts with this franchise.

394378[/snapback]

After the Great War, with the rarity of energon and energy supplies, the Cybertronians began a process of cultural and technological revolution where they shrank their bodies down to (roughly) humanoid size, which far lower power consumption than in the previous G1-type bodies, and could supplement that with consumption of food. BW Megatron refers to the old robotd as 'archiac energon guzzlers', referencing the fact they wasted their energy.

Beast Wars is set 300 years after the end of G1. The robots, for the most part, transformed into Cybertronian vehicles with an animalistic bent to them. Eg, Lio Convoy is portrayed in the new Beast Wars comic as having a Liger Zero type vehicle mode.

When a Predacon rogue named Megatron stole the Golden Disc from Cybertron and made off with a small band of supports, the Maximal survey ship Axalon, commanded by 'Optimus' Primal was ordered to intercept. Both ships transwarped into orbit of a primative planet rich with energon deposits. The Maximals and Predacons blasted each other out of the sky and crash landed.

It was soon discovered that there was so much energon that their bodies could not withstand the energy build up without requiring an alt mode that would be immune, so they scanned local animals who seemed unaffected by the energon. By this time Cybertronian technology had advanced to such a stage that the melding of organic material and robotics was nothing unusual. The beast modes also had special abilities unique that gave them advantages (and disadvantages) over the robot modes.

And that's why they have beast modes. Of course, by the end of the first season the Vok had detonated most of the Energon on Earth, or turned them into stable cubes, so it was moot.

Frankly, I'm surprised by you guys - you give all sorts of reasons why realistic alt modes are so useful on Earth, but then completely disregard the same usefulness those alt modes, but with an alien asthetic as they should, would have back on their homeworld. Is it because they don't look like Earth vehicles that you find it so unbelievable? That's a rather narrow view.

-FFN

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

It's mainly because I'm more a fan of the vehicles and machines. I don't know, organic robots have never really appealed to me that much. The idea of a transforming into a animal is not as cool as a car imo. It's just more cheesy in my mind.

As a toy, I like that robots can be disguised as things we can identify with in the real world but hide thier parts and be useful at the same time. This is the appeal of G1 for me. Yes I am aware that cybertron was thier home planet and that originally they all had alt modes before they came to earth, but from the perspective of a person buying the toy I (I'm not saying you have to) prefer when those alt modes are not fictional vehicles, becuase I like that I can transform the bot into a mode that acts as a disguise or is useful. When I say disguise I don't mean a disguise to the fictional aliens in that planet, I mean as a TOY, a person will look at an alternator, see it, and go "WOW I had no idea this was a transformer, the disguise really fooled me into thinking this was just a toy car/truck/plane/tank... whatever"

I was just saying that to me personally, the fact that the robot was modelled off a real vehicle adds value to it. It's cool to know that you can leave a robot in alt mode and not tell if it is just an ordinary vehicle just by looking at it. That does not mean fictional alt modes suck, just that the appeal for me is when they put lots of effort into making that toy really complex just to be accurate.

Edited April 26, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[eriku]

I just don't like organic animal modes. In MY view, my limited and narrow point of view, they are not aesthetically pleasing. I can think of other reasons why they don't appeal to me, but mostly it's because I think they look like ass.

And like I said before, I'm not a Transformers 'fan'. I don't like any of the series and I'm only in it for the toys. The reasons they do what they do in the show means very little to me as long as I have a cool-looking transforming toy in my hands.

Oh, and I DO have one Beastie TF that is a prized posession, but it's only because he is a tanuki who has balls.

Edited April 26, 2006 by eriku

[eriku]

God, I just realised this thread is devolving into one of those aweful TRUKK not MUNKKY! discussions.

Someone make it stop!!!

[Fit For Natalie]

Okay okay fair enough

Here's one good thing about Takara having to make MP Starscream with US toy safety laws in mind - it will be alot sturdier than the collector-minded 1:48 Valks, I'll wager.

I hope Starscream's hands aren't as girly looking as what I've seen from the 1:48s though.

[eriku]

Girly looking? I believe the correct term is "chicken hands" or "skeleton hands". "Girly" implies they would actually have some substance to them.

The reason the 1/48s are so dainty is for the 'perfect transformation', so they can fold up inside the arms and not have to be removed.

I think Starscreams arms will allow for more hearty hands.

[Fit For Natalie]

I hope so, because if it comes down to it, I'd prefer bigger, TF-like hands with limited articulation than smaller ones that have better finger movement.

... that sounds dirty.

[Valkfan]

Hey all, I've been away for a while but in my absence I've been working on a few things that I'd like to share with you. This of course isn't a finished project but it's not far from it. BEHOLD SIDESWIPE!!!

Edited April 27, 2006 by Valkfan

[Valkfan]

Yet another angle.

[Valkfan]

And another.