Official Transformers Super Thread 3

[UN Spacy]

Alright. Who's the MW'er that started this thread on AllSpark?

"Shoji Kawamori destroys MP Starscream!"

http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9026

LOL.

[HoveringCheesecake]

I'm torn on whether or not to buy SS now. I'm going to keep my preorder until I find out for sure whether or not the hip crap can be removed/put on the legs.

I'm not liking his ostrich legs in the new picture, though. =\

[Eazy D]

This discussion on the MP SS revisions is hella interesting and I don't mean that sarcastically. It's just downright informative to find out what other people think constitutes a "right" or "wrong" SS.

BTW - HAS EVERYONE MISSED OUT ON THE FACT THAT THE INTAKES ON SS'S SHOULDER'S HAVE BEEN LENGTHENED.

People were whinging about the "head on a pedestal" look before but i think the lengthened intakes improves on that.

As for the hip kibble. I think it looks really gundam. In fact i think the whole toy looks gundam now.

I have to agree with comickaze. Although the bot mode looks less blocky and sleeker (I actually don't mind the legs and the new feet) the thing just doesn't feel canon with the skirts. The whole point of a masterpiece is to at least get a pretty cartoon accurate bot mode.

JBO, I know you'll argue with me saying that cartoon SS never had tailfins on his legs but having skirts seems more non-canon than tailfins on legs. PLUS from a front-on perspective the original proto disguised the tailfins on the legs pretty well whereas now the front-on view puts too much emphasis on the skirts.

[ComicKaze]

Then why are you bent out of shape about the tail fins, when that iconic look is FINLESS?

I think I stated as much in the first place, and you threw ANIMATION ERRORS back at me to explain why it needed tail fins on the feet.

While hanging them off the hips is still not animation accurate, it at least looks less retarded than having them stick off the feet.

Because according to the original design, the fins folded up behind the legs thusly they were hidden when viewed from the front. This is aesthetically pleasing and much truer to both toy and cartoon incarnations of Starscream to begin with and simply makes more sense. I think that most people, when they are kids and draw a robot, will put fins on the legs instead of attaching fins/pods to the hips.

An upper body. All that made Starscream was above the waist.

Well, that's only half a Starscream in my book. I imagine my robots whole. Maybe you should buy a Starscream bust then

Ya know, I considered pointing out exactly what I meant, but thought it would be understood.

I guess not.

Every rendition of the VF-1, animation errors excepted, is largely the same, save detail level.

Yes a Yamato 1/48 kicks all kinds of crap out of a 1/55 Bandai, but when you get down to it, they're the SAME THING. Sure the Bandai is a bit chunkier, but the overall styling is the same.

Aside from animation errors, there aren't any stray parts materializing, dematerializing, or moving with the whims of the current artists, except for the gunpod, which is either missing in fighter mode or hanging under the fighter along the centerline.

By comparison, every Gen1 Transformer that made it to animation had no fewer than 3 designs: toy, box art, and cartoon. The diffrences were often drastic enough between the toy and animation that the Skyfire/Jetfire substitution doesn't look excessively absurd.

If, as you say, only the official animation design counts... Starscream had no foot-fins.

The issue isn't foot fins, but wherever they fit to be most hidden as to emulate the "no-foot fins" appearance. Putting them on the hips makes them blatantly obvious which is the wrong direction to go. If you need rockets, fins, any flight control thrust bits, or just extra mass stick... them on the legs, I think that's logically the most aesthetic place. Do you see fast packs hanging off the hips of the VF-1? Incidentally, I'm pretty sure Shoji intended these to be fast packs as he would know the F-15 was the first fighter to use them...but the end result in my opinion is thatt he new version of Starscream looks like a robot with ostrich legs that has two submarines hanging off his belt.

Just for fun, here's Shoji's scribbles on the original design showing the changes he wanted:

That was a pretty much perfect Starscream in my opinion. Changes were unnecessary.

Edited June 23, 2006 by ComicKaze

[GobotFool]

though, in the midst of all this debate, I must remind people, there seems to be implications that the on the hips configuration may be optional.

[ghostryder]

though, in the midst of all this debate, I must remind people, there seems to be implications that the on the hips configuration may be optional.

410538[/snapback]

Oh, you're no fun .

I'm waiting on T-cracker, so I'll wait and see how MP-3 turns out.

[GobotFool]

though, in the midst of all this debate, I must remind people, there seems to be implications that the on the hips configuration may be optional.

410538[/snapback]

Oh, you're no fun .

I'm waiting on T-cracker, so I'll wait and see how MP-3 turns out.

410543[/snapback]

Damn right I'm no fun, after all, I'm the party pooper sort though isn't it funny that right with this remold announcment, the valk that kawamori started with this whole fins as hip armor look got plastered in the mag right next to his SS revision?

Edited June 23, 2006 by GobotFool

[Hoptimus]

I really dont see the need for that revision. I was happy with the first version they showed us.

[kensei]

The feet look way better though.

I hope for the fans that the kibble can actually reattach to the legs anyway.

[eriku]

I hope that the cockpit gets retooled so it can hold a little gummy pilot. Anyone think they'll release a fast-pack set for Starscream?

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I like the changes. Didn't really care so much about the cartoon accuracy so much as the toy kicking butt.

I've noticed there are two types of people:

1. character people

2. toy people

Character people hate subtle changes. (I do sympathise with them)

Toy people apreciate the look of the toy. (the only line of TF I care about is alternators, because they look so real in alt modes and maybe MP for quality reasons more than accuracy to likeness of the character)

I think what the character people need to do is give it a chance. The transformers come from a series where things disapear, grow and shrink, and change proportion. It started out just being toys that were cool and the character part of the toys didn't come till later. Unlike with macross where the VF1 had a show from the beginning.

I hope they find a solution to please both groups though. I'm personally more pissed that ultra magnus doesn't look anything like his movie or toon version. (does anyone want to bring this up? Hasbro you owe us the real one!) Given the state of an initially trailerless prime and prime repaint passed off as magnus, not to mention that prime isn't as close to alternators in terms of realism in vehicle mode, (making the alternators more a "masterpiece" than the masterpieces?) if anything you TF people should be happy to have the floating head improving the character and gracing the tf universe with his yf19 starscream. Can't wait for the Masterpiece jetfire actually! These will probably be better than yamato 1/48 vf1 lol.

Edited June 23, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[eugimon]

Do a google image search for starscream... go on, I'll wait.

Oh... what's that? No ridiculous tailfins hanging off the the back of his legs?

But wait, if we look at the original toy, we see that starscream actually stood on his rudders and his wings were attached to his hips!!!

So even the first version of MP Starscream was rubbish since it wasn't faithful to the original design!!! THOSE BASTARDS.

Fanboys, pfeh.

[GobotFool]

I like the changes. Didn't really care so much about the cartoon accuracy so much as the toy kicking butt.

I've noticed there are two types of people:

1. character people

2. toy people

Character people hate subtle changes. (I do sympathise with them)

Toy people apreciate the look of the toy. (the only line of TF I care about is alternators, because they look so real in alt modes and maybe MP for quality reasons more than accuracy to likeness of the character)

I think what the character people need to do is give it a chance. The transformers come from a series where things disapear, grow and shrink, and change proportion. It started out just being toys that were cool and the character part of the toys didn't come till later. Unlike with macross where the VF1 had a show from the beginning.

I hope they find a solution to please both groups though. I'm personally more pissed that ultra magnus doesn't look anything like his movie or toon version. (does anyone want to bring this up? Hasbro you owe us the real one!) Given the state of an initially trailerless prime and prime repaint passed off as magnus, not to mention that prime isn't as close to alternators in terms of realism in vehicle mode, (making the alternators more a "masterpiece" than the masterpieces?)  if anything you TF people should be happy to have the floating head improving the character and gracing the tf universe with his yf19 starscream. Can't wait for the Masterpiece jetfire actually!  These will pbably be better than yamato 1/48 vf1 lol

410566[/snapback]

I'm more toy than character, still, the revision of sticking the fins on the sides just strikes me as Kawamori feeling the need to put his mark on this design as it just seems like such an unnecissary move. What he did to the arms to enhance the jet, I'm totally cool with. I just don't like the liberties he took with the bot mode which seems just for the sake of kawamorizing a iconic design. That and I honestly hate parts that just seem to hang off. I don't mind vehicle parts that seem intergrated into the bot mode somehow, but a part that seems to just be there because they couldn't think what the hell to do with it bugs me.

Edited June 23, 2006 by GobotFool

[eugimon]

I like the changes. Didn't really care so much about the cartoon accuracy so much as the toy kicking butt.

I've noticed there are two types of people:

1. character people

2. toy people

Character people hate subtle changes. (I do sympathise with them)

Toy people apreciate the look of the toy. (the only line of TF I care about is alternators, because they look so real in alt modes and maybe MP for quality reasons more than accuracy to likeness of the character)

I think what the character people need to do is give it a chance. The transformers come from a series where things disapear, grow and shrink, and change proportion. It started out just being toys that were cool and the character part of the toys didn't come till later. Unlike with macross where the VF1 had a show from the beginning.

I hope they find a solution to please both groups though. I'm personally more pissed that ultra magnus doesn't look anything like his movie or toon version. (does anyone want to bring this up? Hasbro you owe us the real one!) Given the state of an initially trailerless prime and prime repaint passed off as magnus, not to mention that prime isn't as close to alternators in terms of realism in vehicle mode, (making the alternators more a "masterpiece" than the masterpieces?)  if anything you TF people should be happy to have the floating head improving the character and gracing the tf universe with his yf19 starscream. Can't wait for the Masterpiece jetfire actually!  These will pbably be better than yamato 1/48 vf1 lol

410566[/snapback]

I'm more toy than character, still, the revision of sticking the fins on the sides just strikes me as Kawamori feeling the need to put his mark on this design as it just seems like such an unnecissary move. What he did to the arms to enhance the jet, I'm totally cool with. I just don't like the liberties he took with the bot mode which seems just for the sake of kawamorizing a iconic design. That and I honestly hate parts that just seem to hang off. I don't mind vehicle parts that seem intergrated into the bot mode somehow, but a part that seems to just be there because they couldn't think what the hell to do with it bugs me.

410581[/snapback]

how does that work with having fins and rudder hanging off the back of his legs?

[eriku]

I'm definately toy driven over character-driven, especially with something like Transformers where the bulk of the cartoons are pretty much unwatchable.

It's the fact that I'm toy-driven that makes me not like the new tail-fin things hanging from his hips because I like my transforming toys to have everything tucked away and streamlined and not have pieces just sort of hanging there. I'm not going to really batty about it though because it's still a kick-ass toy. I'd just PREFER the tailfin bits on the legs. If not, oh well.

Now, if the Hory Froating Head had decided to turn one of Starscream's arms into the cockput of the plane, or some giant cannon....THAT would absolutely ruin the toy for me.

[Fit For Natalie]

I wonder what the Japanese reaction is?  AFAIK G1 isn't the cultural icon there that it is here---it's not so much "sacrilege" to change SS there, he's not nearly as iconic/beloved.  Wonder if Kawamori (or Takara) will change anything if they see an incredible backlash and preference for the old design.

410508[/snapback]

Well, if the fact that the japanese TF fandom HATES the Kiss Transformers line, I think they have some common sense. But so far Takara don't seem to care about that. They are banking on Kawamori's name alone to make up a large portion of the sales.

I hope they find a solution to please both groups though. I'm personally more pissed that ultra magnus doesn't look anything like his movie or toon version. (does anyone want to bring this up? Hasbro you owe us the real one!) Given the state of an initially trailerless prime and prime repaint passed off as magnus, not to mention that prime isn't as close to alternators in terms of realism in vehicle mode, (making the alternators more a "masterpiece" than the masterpieces?)  if anything you TF people should be happy to have the floating head improving the character and gracing the tf universe with his yf19 starscream. Can't wait for the Masterpiece jetfire actually!  These will probably be better than yamato 1/48 vf1 lol.

410566[/snapback]

Hasbro had nothing to do with MP Magnus. Takara released it after (apparently) seeing the Dreamwave comic where Ultra Magnus breaks out of his armour to join his brother, Prime. Plus it was a cheap way to get a new toy out without any significant R&D costs.

Prime had no trailer because the trailer would just be a big box on wheels that would SERIOUSLY increase the retail price of the toy. Ultra Magnus' potential trailer would be of more use, but would VASTLY increase the retail price of the toy. Takara already got their money's worth out of the tooling, that's why they're releasing a 'Perfect' edition with a plastic trailer now as a collector toy. Because Hasbro deals with a much larger mass-market, they don't have that luxury.

Prime is a Masterpiece because it attempts to transform from a relatively cartoon-accurate robot mode to a half-decent truck mode whose cab looks significantly different to the robot's torso. That's what makes it a masterpiece. Realism has never been a cruicial factor in Transformers until Alternators.

Do a google image search for starscream... go on, I'll wait.

Oh... what's that? No ridiculous tailfins hanging off the the back of his legs?

But wait, if we look at the original toy, we see that starscream actually stood on his rudders and his wings were attached to his hips!!!

So even the first version of MP Starscream was rubbish since it wasn't faithful to the original design!!! THOSE BASTARDS.

Fanboys, pfeh.

410567[/snapback]

No need to be rude.

I think you're missing the point that it kind of spoils the fact this is a Masterpiece version of G1 Starscream if he is changing the design enough for it to be an alternate Starscream. Because the those additions to the hips now clash with the rest of Starscream's design, and the established design thematics of G1.

The hip things would be fine if it were say, a Cybertron figure or an Alternator version of Starscream or something.

[Myriad]

Do a google image search for starscream... go on, I'll wait.

Oh... what's that? No ridiculous tailfins hanging off the the back of his legs?

But wait, if we look at the original toy, we see that starscream actually stood on his rudders and his wings were attached to his hips!!!

So even the first version of MP Starscream was rubbish since it wasn't faithful to the original design!!! THOSE BASTARDS.

Fanboys, pfeh.

410567[/snapback]

I didn't catch your opinion yet........

What is it again?

[GobotFool]

I like the changes. Didn't really care so much about the cartoon accuracy so much as the toy kicking butt.

I've noticed there are two types of people:

1. character people

2. toy people

Character people hate subtle changes. (I do sympathise with them)

Toy people apreciate the look of the toy. (the only line of TF I care about is alternators, because they look so real in alt modes and maybe MP for quality reasons more than accuracy to likeness of the character)

I think what the character people need to do is give it a chance. The transformers come from a series where things disapear, grow and shrink, and change proportion. It started out just being toys that were cool and the character part of the toys didn't come till later. Unlike with macross where the VF1 had a show from the beginning.

I hope they find a solution to please both groups though. I'm personally more pissed that ultra magnus doesn't look anything like his movie or toon version. (does anyone want to bring this up? Hasbro you owe us the real one!) Given the state of an initially trailerless prime and prime repaint passed off as magnus, not to mention that prime isn't as close to alternators in terms of realism in vehicle mode, (making the alternators more a "masterpiece" than the masterpieces?)  if anything you TF people should be happy to have the floating head improving the character and gracing the tf universe with his yf19 starscream. Can't wait for the Masterpiece jetfire actually!  These will pbably be better than yamato 1/48 vf1 lol

410566[/snapback]

I'm more toy than character, still, the revision of sticking the fins on the sides just strikes me as Kawamori feeling the need to put his mark on this design as it just seems like such an unnecissary move. What he did to the arms to enhance the jet, I'm totally cool with. I just don't like the liberties he took with the bot mode which seems just for the sake of kawamorizing a iconic design. That and I honestly hate parts that just seem to hang off. I don't mind vehicle parts that seem intergrated into the bot mode somehow, but a part that seems to just be there because they couldn't think what the hell to do with it bugs me.

410581[/snapback]

how does that work with having fins and rudder hanging off the back of his legs?

410590[/snapback]

I don't know if this makes any sense, but the idea of the that whole long bulbus section, currently hanging off the waist being intergrated back as part of the length of the leg doesn't bother me nearly as much. Also I think I need to specify its not the rudders hanging off that bother me, its the two very long peices of plastic at the waist (David what is the techincal aeronautical term for these parts?) which at the end of happen to be rudders that bother me.

Edited June 23, 2006 by GobotFool

[eugimon]

I wonder what the Japanese reaction is?  AFAIK G1 isn't the cultural icon there that it is here---it's not so much "sacrilege" to change SS there, he's not nearly as iconic/beloved.  Wonder if Kawamori (or Takara) will change anything if they see an incredible backlash and preference for the old design.

410508[/snapback]

Well, if the fact that the japanese TF fandom HATES the Kiss Transformers line, I think they have some common sense. But so far Takara don't seem to care about that. They are banking on Kawamori's name alone to make up a large portion of the sales.

I hope they find a solution to please both groups though. I'm personally more pissed that ultra magnus doesn't look anything like his movie or toon version. (does anyone want to bring this up? Hasbro you owe us the real one!) Given the state of an initially trailerless prime and prime repaint passed off as magnus, not to mention that prime isn't as close to alternators in terms of realism in vehicle mode, (making the alternators more a "masterpiece" than the masterpieces?)  if anything you TF people should be happy to have the floating head improving the character and gracing the tf universe with his yf19 starscream. Can't wait for the Masterpiece jetfire actually!  These will probably be better than yamato 1/48 vf1 lol.

410566[/snapback]

Hasbro had nothing to do with MP Magnus. Takara released it after (apparently) seeing the Dreamwave comic where Ultra Magnus breaks out of his armour to join his brother, Prime. Plus it was a cheap way to get a new toy out without any significant R&D costs.

Prime had no trailer because the trailer would just be a big box on wheels that would SERIOUSLY increase the retail price of the toy. Ultra Magnus' potential trailer would be of more use, but would VASTLY increase the retail price of the toy. Takara already got their money's worth out of the tooling, that's why they're releasing a 'Perfect' edition with a plastic trailer now as a collector toy. Because Hasbro deals with a much larger mass-market, they don't have that luxury.

Prime is a Masterpiece because it attempts to transform from a relatively cartoon-accurate robot mode to a half-decent truck mode whose cab looks significantly different to the robot's torso. That's what makes it a masterpiece. Realism has never been a cruicial factor in Transformers until Alternators.

Do a google image search for starscream... go on, I'll wait.

Oh... what's that? No ridiculous tailfins hanging off the the back of his legs?

But wait, if we look at the original toy, we see that starscream actually stood on his rudders and his wings were attached to his hips!!!

So even the first version of MP Starscream was rubbish since it wasn't faithful to the original design!!! THOSE BASTARDS.

Fanboys, pfeh.

410567[/snapback]

No need to be rude.

I think you're missing the point that it kind of spoils the fact this is a Masterpiece version of G1 Starscream if he is changing the design enough for it to be an alternate Starscream. Because the those additions to the hips now clash with the rest of Starscream's design, and the established design thematics of G1.

The hip things would be fine if it were say, a Cybertron figure or an Alternator version of Starscream or something.

410612[/snapback]

if folks here can sit around and blast people they've never met (K-san) then they open themselves up to being blasted themselves. Turn around is fair play.

if you look at the animated/drawn starscream, his tail fins and rudders disappear when in bot mode.. so the orginal design is wrong. If you look at the original toy, his rudders became big flippers that stuck off the sides of his feet, so the original MPC is still wrong? What is so bad about moving them to the waist when you gain better articulation and posability?

[wolfx]

How come nobody makes as much noise when Katoki redesigns gundams and ver. Kas them?

[GobotFool]

How come nobody makes as much noise when Katoki redesigns gundams and ver. Kas them?

410627[/snapback]

I actually wonder if gundam fans in Japan compain as much about redesigns as we do. Though lets remember, there are a billion version of every gundam, so even if you don't like Katoki's revision you can still probably easily nab a rendition you like as there are billions of different gundam toys and models damn you bandai, stop it with the gundam already... diversifiy....

Do a google image search for starscream... go on, I'll wait.

Oh... what's that? No ridiculous tailfins hanging off the the back of his legs?

But wait, if we look at the original toy, we see that starscream actually stood on his rudders and his wings were attached to his hips!!!

So even the first version of MP Starscream was rubbish since it wasn't faithful to the original design!!! THOSE BASTARDS.

Fanboys, pfeh.

410567[/snapback]

That said, the very fact we are all having a heated discussion over the position of the tailfin rudders makes us all fanboys to one degree or another

Edited June 23, 2006 by GobotFool

[eriku]

How come nobody makes as much noise when Katoki redesigns gundams and ver. Kas them?

410627[/snapback]

Because Gundams suck either way. Kidding, kidding! (or not...)

[GobotFool]

How come nobody makes as much noise when Katoki redesigns gundams and ver. Kas them?

410627[/snapback]

Because Gundams suck either way. Kidding, kidding! (or not...)

410634[/snapback]

Heresy!!!! *grabs pitchforks*!

[Myriad]

[GobotFool]

410640[/snapback]

I see.... I didn't realize you were into that kind of thing...

[Myriad]

410640[/snapback]

I see.... I didn't realize you were into that kind of thing...

410641[/snapback]

Look at those high heels!

There are no tail feathers on his feet!

The MPC version 2 "Electric Boogaloo" is dead on!

[GobotFool]

410640[/snapback]

I see.... I didn't realize you were into that kind of thing...

410641[/snapback]

Look at those high heels!

There are no tail feathers on his feet!

The MPC version 2 "Electric Boogaloo" is dead on!

410642[/snapback]

yes yes, what ever you say, *is being mesmerized by other aspects of this oh so wrong picture*

[eriku]

That picture does more to explain the tension and fighting between Megatron and Starscream than any other explanation or theory I've heard.

[JB0]

Isn't Starscream supposed to be sticking a dagger in Meggie's back?

[eugimon]

That said, the very fact we are all having a heated discussion over the position of the tailfin rudders makes us all fanboys to one degree or another 

410630[/snapback]

ARGH!!!

[Twoducks]

That said, the very fact we are all having a heated discussion over the position of the tailfin rudders makes us all fanboys to one degree or another 

410630[/snapback]

ARGH!!!

410667[/snapback]

The funniest thing is how everyone gets worked up over a piece of plastic that will be removable. Guess the battying won't stop until pics of that easily removable looking part is attached somewhere else.

I made peace with the "pedestal neck" a long time before the new sculpt (and I was one of the first to complaint about it) because that toy looked kickass and now it looks even better (I’m really happy I pre-ordered).

And if you want something that is more cartoon incorrect than some pieces of plastic you can take off, look at his chest/neck/head. MP Prime didn’t have that neck and neither did the cartoon Starscream.

[ComicKaze]

How come nobody makes as much noise when Katoki redesigns gundams and ver. Kas them?

410627[/snapback]

I actually wonder if gundam fans in Japan compain as much about redesigns as we do. Though lets remember, there are a billion version of every gundam, so even if you don't like Katoki's revision you can still probably easily nab a rendition you like as there are billions of different gundam toys and models damn you bandai, stop it with the gundam already... diversifiy....

The reason is that Gundam fans have Gundams of every shape and size and version already. They already have "true" versions of many of the Katoki or ver. Kas or Fix Figuration, etc. in hundreds of toys and models, etc.

With transfans, most of them have been waiting their entire childhoods AND adult lives to be given an accurate to cartoon Starscream and then were shown the first picture in anticipation and then summarily disappointed and had their hopes dashed after all those years.

[GobotFool]

How come nobody makes as much noise when Katoki redesigns gundams and ver. Kas them?

410627[/snapback]

I actually wonder if gundam fans in Japan compain as much about redesigns as we do. Though lets remember, there are a billion version of every gundam, so even if you don't like Katoki's revision you can still probably easily nab a rendition you like as there are billions of different gundam toys and models damn you bandai, stop it with the gundam already... diversifiy....

The reason is that Gundam fans have Gundams of every shape and size and version already. They already have "true" versions of many of the Katoki or ver. Kas or Fix Figuration, etc. in hundreds of toys and models, etc.

With transfans, most of them have been waiting their entire childhoods AND adult lives to be given an accurate to cartoon Starscream and then were shown the first picture in anticipation and then summarily disappointed and had their hopes dashed after all those years.

410713[/snapback]

my point exactly, if there were a starscream hybrid model, then great, Kawamori knock yourself out with revision. but this is supposed to be the definitive G1 styled SS toy.

[VF5SS]

With transfans, most of them have been waiting their entire childhoods AND adult lives to be given an accurate to cartoon Starscream and then were shown the first picture in anticipation and then summarily disappointed and had their hopes dashed after all those years.

410713[/snapback]

You already have a cartoon accurate Starscream. The Mega SCF figure is very cartoon accurate. I don't know how much accurate you can get to Floro Dery's half-assed designs.

[Knight26]

My 2 cents, I like both versions, but prefer the new one because it makes the whole design seem more realistic to me and believable. That is always an issue I had with transformers and gobots, unrealistic/stupid transformations. But then again I also have a life and appreciate it the TOY for what it is, a well designed, well engineered TOY.