Anyone Here Uses A Widescreen Monitor On Their Pc?

[Ladic]

Hey guys, I've been using this monitor for the last 7 years:

DELL P990

It has been a good old dog, but now I think is the time to upgrade.

So I meaninly use my PC for gaming and web surfing.

These are 2 options I am looking at, with the Viewsonic looking much more temping:

ViewSonic VX2025WM 20.1"

or

HP f2105 21-inch

Now, since I have a Sapphire Radeon X800pro 256mb agp, so I don't think I will have any problems in the resolution department.

What worries me a bit are what the games will look like.

Altough I've been playing games liek Counter Strike Source, Galactic Civilizations 2, WoW, that support Wide Screen, it should be a vast improvement.

The worrysome part, are the games I play that DO NOT support widescreen, I like playing old games every now and then, and one of my favorite games is Football Manager which doesnt support Widescreen.

What will the games look like?

And do you guys really recommend the upgrade?

thanks for any info

ps. what does it mean when people talk about ghosting and the backlight bleeding?

[JB0]

If I'm not mistaken, backlight bleeding = the light oozes through, making blacks appear gray. All lit LCDs do it to some degree or another, making "true black" an impossible achievement(though most get "close enough" and some get very very very close).

Games that don't support widescreen mode will fill the entire panel and look stretched out. Everything will be a little fat.

Doesn't bug some people, but it drives me crazy.

[HWR MKII]

I wish i could help but mine gets routed through my projector to my hugescreen.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I've been using a Dell 20" widescreen for quite a while now and love it. It really adds to the cinematic quality of PC games when you play "wide". Here are some pointers that I have picked up while shopping for my monitor long ago and other things I've learned owning one:

Pay close attention to three things on your monitor selections, Native resolution mode, refresh rate and Hertz.

I think every LCD monitor runs at 60 Hertz so that should not be much of a sticking point but the native resolution and the refresh rate are massively important. Some widescreen monitors are "true" 16 x 9 widescreen resolution and support almost all those resolutions when playing games. Other monitors (like my dell) are an "untrue" widescreen which is actually 16x10. Using a 16x9 res on a 16x10 monitor causes distortion and likewise the other way around. The native res of my dell monitor is 1680 x 1050 and it looks outstanding running that res in programs that support it. Some games do not support that resolution so I either have to suffer running a lower, off res res or I have to do a little "adjusting" to hack the games to run in 1680 x 1050 mode.

The other important item is refresh rate, that is the rate at which the monitor updates itself. Low refresh rates create the phenomenon called "ghosting" which means moving images on the screen leave ghostly trails behind themselves. A good widescreen LCD will have a higher refresh rate than a cheaper one so ghosting will be cut down BUT it will still be present. If you are ultra nit-picky about your images then ghosting will drive you up a wall... unless you just get used to it like I did.

Two things to do immediately upon getting a widescreen LCD monitor are to use only DVI connections if possible, as this allows for the sharpest picture you can get, and do what I call the "bleed test". Leave the monitor turned on for about half an hour and then call up an all black screen. Turn the lights off in the room and see how bad the light bleed is. To be honest there is really no such thing as an LCD that does not have light bleed, the question is "how bad will it be" and it almost varys from unit to unit even within the same model line.

Two nasty things to beware of with an LCD monitor are color flasking at angles and dead or stuck pixels. My dell flasks to a purplish color at steep viewing angles but when viewed head on is just fine. This dell monitor also has a few dead pixes on it. Beware dell's "dead pixel policy", if you get a dell monitor and it ships with dead pixels they will not replace it unless it has more than 7 dead pixels... from the horse's mouth I kid you not.

As for actually playing your newer and older games in widescreen check out the widescreengaming forums for workarounds for many games that don't support native widescreen resolutions. A big kick in the balls is that a lot of very recent, high tilt games DO NOT support native widescreen and have to be hacked a bit to work right. FEAR, Star Wars KOTOR 2 and a few others leap to mind right away.

The best advice other than all this rot I just typed is the advice given to me by someone else when I was debating buying a widescreen LCD monitor: try before you buy. Go around town and see if any local shops have monitors on hand that you can look at. Failing that ask friends if they have one you can test. Failing those two buy from a place that has 100% refund return if you find you hate the monitor. Never buy a monitor on eBay unless you feel lucky.

[BlueMax]

hey, consider getting the dell 24"? Heard that it looks totally great, in all sense of the word! lol~!

games that do not support widescreen will looked a wee bit stretched, but personally I'm totally ok with that.

Oh yeah, when you watch widescreen movies, its gonna be totally awesome!

Other advise is to get one with speed rated 12ms or lower to mimise "ghosting" effects... basically, ghosting occues because pixels take a wee bit too long to respond to the change in the picture, resulting in residual images.

Wide viewing angles will be preferred (160 deg horizontal) so that nobody will complain of not being able to see when you have a few pals over to watch the latest jessica alba show...

[Mr March]

I've always had a problem with ghosting, viewing angle, and contrast bleeding when gaming on a non-CRT monitor. Don't get me wrong, I'd love nothing more than to have a CRT quality monitor in a light-weight, flat panel configuration (my big, 19" CRT is just so damn ugly in comparison). But when it comes to gaming on my PC, I can't get over those problems that continually plague the LCD systems. I need that refresh to be FAST!

I'm curious what members will have to say about the newer flat screens. It's been a few years since I seriously looked into moving to a flat screen, so perhaps some of those annoying problems have been corrected.

Oh, and since you asked:

Ghosting Widely recognized as the main drawback of LCD screens, "ghosting" occurs when the tiny pixels creating an image take time to switch on and off, often unable to keep pace during fast moving images.

Viewing Angle Seen as both advantage and disadvantage, LCD screens have a limited field of view, often requiring that the viewer sit at a specific angle to the screen in order to view what is being projected. Those LCD users that enjoy privacy often see the limited viewing angle of an LCD as an advantage in public enviroments.

Contrast Bleeding (or "Backlight Bleed" if you prefer) The LCD functions using a light source layered under the liquid crystal molecules, resulting in a "bleeding" effect that always lets at least some degree of light through. This results in a lower contrast and causes blacks to appear grey.

[JsARCLIGHT]

While my monitor is far from "brand spanking new" I can say that most of the main problems have been "reduced" in this gen of dell flat wides that I have. The key factor sadly is just getting used to the monitor. It is by far nowhere near the blacks of a CRT and getting used to the slight ghosting (even 12ms and lower monitors still ghost) takes time.

But as soon as you are used to it you will never go back to a CRT. I use a CRT at work just because I need pantone calibrated colors but I now prefer widescreen LCD. My next computer I really want to get one of those great Apple cinema monitors... those things are outstanding... but pricey.

[Mr March]

*snip*

This dell monitor also has a few dead pixes on it. Beware dell's "dead pixel policy", if you get a dell monitor and it ships with dead pixels they will not replace it unless it has more than 7 dead pixels... from the horse's mouth I kid you not.

385566[/snapback]

Great post! I can see some of the old LCD problems are still kicking around

I must say, I'm surprised Dell has taken that sort of attitude. Typically, they are so good with hardware returns. For them to institue that sort of policy must mean dead pixels are a fact of life with LCD systems. More's the pity

[Mr March]

While my monitor is far from "brand spanking new" I can say that most of the main problems have been "reduced" in this gen of dell flat wides that I have. The key factor sadly is just getting used to the monitor. It is by far nowhere near the blacks of a CRT and getting used to the slight ghosting (even 12ms and lower monitors still ghost) takes time.

But as soon as you are used to it you will never go back to a CRT. I use a CRT at work just because I need pantone calibrated colors but I now prefer widescreen LCD. My next computer I really want to get one of those great Apple cinema monitors... those things are outstanding... but pricey.

385576[/snapback]

That's encouraging news. I'm glad to hear things are better with the LCD. I use LCD's at work, so I really don't mind them for the vast majority of programs, but I have to admit I don't game at work

Ideally, I won't have to worry too much about the contrast bleeding, since I want to do the majority of my photography and digital editing on an Apple (they are the only ones offering the lovely Final Cut Pro).

[JsARCLIGHT]

I must say, I'm surprised Dell has taken that sort of attitude.  Typically, they are so good with hardware returns.  For them to institue that sort of policy must mean dead pixels are a fact of life with LCD systems.  More's the pity

385577[/snapback]

I deal with dell on an almost weekly basis as I buy their stuff for my business. I have been on the phone to more dell customer service reps than I have with members of my family. Certain models of dell LCD monitor are under a "7 or more" return policy. It is sort of a known fact (well now anyway) that dell had a big rash of bad LCD monitors a few years ago. It got to the point where almost every one of a certain type of monitor (sadly the model I bought) was shipping with dead or stuck pixels. Dell could not replace the monitors so they created a sliding scale of dead pixels and what dell did was they did not come right out and tell you that right away, first they will offer you discount coupons and all sorts of other things before they finally pipe up and say "7 or more and you get a replacement". I have not had that problem on other dell LCDs, only on a certain few... the problem is that dell will not tell you which ones are under that umbrella so it is sort of a crapshoot.

Many companies who make LCD monitors do not have a dead pixel policy... so dependent on who's monitor you buy you may not be able to claim dead pixels as a reason for warranty replacement.

[Ladic]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I actually saw both the monitors I posted above at CompUSA, they looked really nice, actually I couldn't tell much of a difference between the HP and Viewsonic, that is Why I was thinking might be a better buy, since its also almost $250 cheaper.

I can go back to the store and look at them some more, are there any things I can do on it to test it? I'm not sure what programs the pc's with those Screens have loaded.

But from the technical mumbo jumbo point, do those 2 look decent enough or is there something I should worry about or pay a closer attention to?

[Ladic]

also, I'm not sure what is the return policy in CompUSA, im gonna ask next time I go, on Newegg though, I think you can return only if it has 8 or more dead pixels.

They also sell the same Viewsonic at compUSA, but the price is $499.99. Newegg has it a whole $85 cheaper and S&H is free.

Saddly they dont carry the HP one on newegg.

[mikeszekely]

Granted, I wasn't using a real PC monitor... I was using my 52" HDTV. I went back to my 17" flat panel LCD after about six months. With some tweaking, I got Windows to look great, and a few games like Neverwinter Nights to run well. But most of my games wound up falling into three catagories (or a combination)...

1) Games that wound up stretched (any Need for Speed). This issue had a solution... unti nVidia updated Forceware...

2) Games that were nigh unplayable due to overscan issues (Star Wars: Empire at War). This issue was mostly because I was using a DLP TV, and you probably won't run into it with an LCD monitor.

3) Games that had bizzare resolution issues that were totally unplayable (Star Trek: Starfleet Command III).

Hopefully, with games showing up in widescreen on the 360 retaining that support on PC, like Oblivion, widescreen support in PC games will become more common. That should make the purchase worthwhile. But for the time being, expect to run into the occasional problem.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I can go back to the store and look at them some more, are there any things I can do on it to test it? I'm not sure what programs the pc's with those Screens have loaded.

Easiest test in the book: grab the mouse and move it around fast, but not super fast. See how far behind the pointer the ghost image is. If it is really far behind then that is a very low refresh monitor and would be terrible for gaming. If the ghost is quite close behind it, making it look like a blur and less like a whole sepparate after-image, then that monitor might be suitable for gaming. Another trick is to open a browser window and go to a website like MW that has large mono color stripes running side to side and then scroll up and down and watch the stripes... if they blur or ghost too heavily then the monitor might have issues.

Sadly places like CompUSA and Best Buy always try to put things on the monitors that will not draw attention to their weaknesses... hence why most places run that obnoxious "fish tank" screen saver. That thing hides flaws in monitors well while at the same time making a cheap monitor look really good.

[Ladic]

This dell looks very affordable too:

http://www.compudirect.com/cgi-bin/product...&cnet&Component

dunno how good or reliable that website is for purchasing though.

[JB0]

Some of the old problems have alomst gone away. Like ghosting. But they've been replaced by newer problems, like color artifacting.

And other older problems are still around, like piss-poor resampling of non-native images.

Read reviews.

From reputable places, not "customer reviews" from web stores.

Find the models you're looking at on computer review sites. The more info they have, the better.

Tom's Hardware seems to do very thorough LCD reviews.

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphics/index.html

Thanks for the replies guys.

I actually saw both the monitors I posted above at CompUSA, they looked really nice, actually I couldn't tell much of a difference between the HP and Viewsonic, that is Why I was thinking might be a better buy, since its also almost $250 cheaper.

I can go back to the store and look at them some more, are there any things I can do on it to test it? I'm not sure what programs the pc's with those Screens have loaded.

Not really. If you can talk a clerk into letting you play with it, you can feed them a few movies and play a few games, but ultimately a store display is the absolute WORST place to judge any form of screen, be it CRT, LCD, DLP, VGA, DTV, etc.

Optimally, getting one home and just using it for a while would tell you if it was what you wanted. But stores tend to be frown on previews. Actually, in my experience, they frown on any return for any reason, up to and including "It's completely and utterly broken"(they tried to charge us a restocking fee on an exchange of a broken device once).

[JsARCLIGHT]

That is my exact monitor.

While I enjoy mine I will caution you in buying that model from anyone but Dell. That monitor had a rash of bad builds when it first came out and unless that retailer can prove the one they are selling is from a recent lot I would be quite wary. I used to know the difference between the generations of this monitor... I think it is the serial number has an A followed by a number. If the number is more than 1 I think those are the better quality ones. I'd do some checking before buying that particular model of monitor... make sure it is from the good batches first.

[F360°]

You should be able to purchase the Viewsonic or anyother lcd from Compusa and then return them within a week to get your full refund. They no longer have their OPEN box return equals 15% policy. But just to be sure you should ask before purchase.

Also are you sure you want a WideScreen? because if you still do most of your things in 4/3 then it's better to get a 4/3 LCD instead. Awhile ago I was deciding on which one to keep my old Dell 2001FP and or the new 1 Dell 2005fpw. But after all the testing and my normal computer usage I ended up keeping my old 20" LCD and selling the new 20" widescreen. One of the main reasons is the size,, the 20"wide screen is smaller,, when viewing 4/3 video on the 20 inch widescreen the video will be the same size as viewing it from a 17" LCD. Loseing that 3 inches of difference is to much for me to handle.

Since you already have a 19" CRT with something like 18" viewable,, the 20" widescreen would not look that much bigger to you,, in ways it might even look a little bit smaller.

Well, it best you try it out before you really buy,,

Edited March 30, 2006 by F360°

[JB0]

Also are you sure you want a WideScreen?  because if you still do most of your things in 4/3 then it's better to get a 4/3 LCD instead. 

Could keep them both. Add a second video card for the old screen, or upgrade to a dual-head card.

...

But that's just a TAD overkill, I guess...

Totally unrelated, but... you have the original image for your avatar? Me like pic.

[Neova]

I'm also thinking about getting a new monitor also. I had hauled a hand me down from my friend's cafe business in the states all the way to HK.

There are three other things you should look for that is overlooked when you're about to drop some serious coin on a big 20" + wide or normal (4:3) aspect ratio monitor:

Brightness Rating

Contrast Ratio

Color Bit Depth

Brightness = how bright the monitor is. Simple concept. 50% or 500 cd/m2 is what a Halogen (pretty damn bright) level is. 100% or 1000 cd/m2 is like looking into the sun.

A high brightness level or the ability to do so is good to consider. You can see this with cheap monitors when they look too dark or blurry or the colors are washed out.

Contrast Ratio = the level between black and white or the ability to show hues. A high end monitor today is at 1000:1 ratio, while middle end is 500-600:1

The higher the better as you will get better color clarity, better color defination, better greys and for movie and horror game guys, much better BLACK levels.

Black looks like black in real life, not a dark grey. Makes a world of difference when you watch movies or play something like Doom 3.

A top end LCD TV or monitor is 800:1 to 1000:1.

The new NEC monitor is 1400:1 with digital enhancement!

Plasma TV is even better at 10,000:1!!

Color Bit Depth = amount of colors the monitor is able to produce.

6 bit LCDs can produce up to 262,144 colors (6 bits for red, blue and green)

8 bit LCDs can produce up to 16,777,216 colors or 16.7 MILLION (8 bits for red, blue and green)

10 bit LCDs can produce up to 134,217,728 colors or 1.3 BILLION (10 bits for red, blue and green)

Some LCDs can produce up to 14 BITS of color (Eizo!!!) and those are special monitors designed for hard core graphics use.

Cheap but FAST LCDs are usually 6 bit.

Good high end LCDs (Dell's 20" and 24", Apple Cinema displays) are 8 bit LCDS.

Top gear high end for graphics (LaCie) are at 10 Bits.

The Eizo is rated at 14 bits of colors with a special chip built into it.

Now tell me how many colors or shades of grey if color blind your eyes can see in the real world? You would really see in between 6 and 8 bits so you should get at minimum, an 8 bit LCD monitor.

But then again, it is impossible to see 16.7M at once right cuz you don't have that many pixels so why spend the dollars? Well correct but the more colors the monitor can produced, the better and smoother the color (or grey) transitions can be.

This is assuming your source material is at a high color level such as 24 bit pictures or HD DVD. If you wondered why you see BANDING from an original DVD on your cheap TV or Monitor, its cuz its the display can't display all the colors. Or your monitor is setup wrong or your PC is set to the wrong color depth level.

BTW: FYI - Good LCD TVs are all 10bit (Sony Bravia, Samsung, Pioneer and other top end brands).

Will a 10 bit be better? For games, no. For movies and hard core graphics, or if you can appreciate better color gradiants, 10 bit color is where you want to look at (not cheap). If you do not need a HIRES desktop or more than 16:10 ratio (1366x1144 or 1366x768 resolution), consider a high end LCD TV. It has DVI input, 10 bits of color and maxes out at 1366x1144 or 1366x768. You get a HUGE screen with awesome color capability and at a good native resolution for PC work.

I doubt most gamers have the system to push their monitors beyond 1280x1024 with 6x/8x Anti Aliasing, 24 bit color depth and max eye candy at a REASONABLE frame rate in the first place.

I personally would consider spending up to the same amount for a monitor as my pc's price. The monitor is one of the FEW items you would keep with you across mulitple upgrades yet you will use that one component the most. Spread it across 5 years, you really do get your money's worth with a good monitor.

My top picks right now are the new Nec20WGX2 S-IPS panel (waiting for 24" version), the LaCie 321 LCD Monitor without blue eye color calibrator, the beautiful Eizo 14 Bit LCDs, a Sony Bravia LCD TV or a Samsung Plasma Monitor.

Too bad I can't afford any of the above but once you have demoed those with a reference DVD, everything looks like crap. I have not demoed the Dell 20 or 24" but I've heard those are up there with my reference list.

Visit this website for more info. A great resource for this specific need:

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com

Edited March 30, 2006 by Neova

[F360°]

Also are you sure you want a WideScreen?  because if you still do most of your things in 4/3 then it's better to get a 4/3 LCD instead. 

Could keep them both. Add a second video card for the old screen, or upgrade to a dual-head card.

...

But that's just a TAD overkill, I guess...

Totally unrelated, but... you have the original image for your avatar? Me like pic.

385609[/snapback]

Yeah, I did,, I hooked both of them up for a while for testing... the 2005PFW was alot brighter than the 2001FP and it looks pretty small too. I didn't take any pics at the time.

Similar to what I did with 20" LCD awhile back.. Yes it was overkill so now I only have one,, and dual display it to my TV from time to time when needed.

ah,.. my desk was so clean back then,.. not like the mess it's in now.

And here is original image from my avatar

Edited March 30, 2006 by F360°

[fulcy]

But as soon as you are used to it you will never go back to a CRT. I use a CRT at work just because I need pantone calibrated colors but I now prefer widescreen LCD. My next computer I really want to get one of those great Apple cinema monitors... those things are outstanding... but pricey.

385576[/snapback]

You should definitely splurge, and get the 23" Apple Cinema Display. Pick up one of these guys:

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=1203

and you can use it on your Dell - like I'm using my 23" Cinema right now. The screen is fantastic - much nicer than the other 24" LCD's we have in the office (Samsung and Dell).

[Ladic]

From some forums I just read, it seems most people like more the Viewsonic I listed there over the Dell I listed.

I'm still no 100% but I might just go with the viewsonic, its also over $200 cheaper than the HP.

[JsARCLIGHT]

You should definitely splurge, and get the 23" Apple Cinema Display.  Pick up one of these guys:

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=1203

and you can use it on your Dell - like I'm using my 23" Cinema right now.  The screen is fantastic - much nicer than the other 24" LCD's we have in the office (Samsung and Dell).

385718[/snapback]

I'm planning to get the 30" version when I get my new computer... and I'll get my new computer when the new 64 bit shenanigans start coming out... which by that time Apple might have a 42" cinema display.

[Ladic]

another thing that just occured to me, the native resolution or best resolution as they call it for the viewsonic is supposed to be 1680x1050, now my Vid Card should have no problem displaying that.

What worries me is, are games also supposed to be run at that setting for optimal performance? How do I know if my system can hadle that resolution during gaming?

Does reducing the resolution will make the graphics kinda funky?

btw, my system is:

AMD Athlon 2500 XP+ (1,8mhz 512K cache),

1.5gig pc2700 ram (1 gig of that in dual channel mode)

Sapphire Radeon X800pro 256mb 8X agp

[JsARCLIGHT]

My dell's native resolution is that "untrue" 1680 x 1050 widescreen and I try to run all my games in that res... mostly because it looks the best in that res. Lower resolutions will look muddy.

I have a Pent4 3gig with 2 gig of DDR ram and a X800 PRO card and every game I run in 1680 res looks just fine. Admittedly some of the new games I have to disable antialiasing down to lower settings and fiddle with a few settings here and there to increase framerates but the games look wonderful. Right now I'm running Oblivion in 1680 mode and it looks great.

[Ladic]

damn, I hope my pc can hadle games in native reso

[MrDisco]

i have a dell 2005fpw and the picture quality is outstanding. no dead pixels, minimal light bleed, and the best bang of the buck. games run quite nicely at the max res (though for some reason i can't get quake 4 to run higher than 1024).

without a doubt i would recommend the dell widescreen panels over all other competitors.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I got quake 4 to run in native res on my monitor... check out widescreengamingforums for the workaround. It works perfectly... if you have a good graphics card backing it up that is.

[JB0]

Also are you sure you want a WideScreen?  because if you still do most of your things in 4/3 then it's better to get a 4/3 LCD instead. 

Could keep them both. Add a second video card for the old screen, or upgrade to a dual-head card.

...

But that's just a TAD overkill, I guess...

Totally unrelated, but... you have the original image for your avatar? Me like pic.

385609[/snapback]

Yeah, I did,, I hooked both of them up for a while for testing... the 2005PFW was alot brighter than the 2001FP and it looks pretty small too. I didn't take any pics at the time.

Similar to what I did with 20" LCD awhile back.. Yes it was overkill so now I only have one,, and dual display it to my TV from time to time when needed.

ah,.. my desk was so clean back then,.. not like the mess it's in now.

Mmmm...

I don't really have space for multiple monitors(or a spare monitor to play with).

Be nice to have in the future, though.

And here is original image from my avatar

385673[/snapback]

WOOT!

Thanks!

Edited March 31, 2006 by JB0

[Gabe Q]

I'm runnin a 24" Dell 2405FPW Widescreen flatpanel and all I can say is that it kicks ass. I can't really get into the technical jargon but there are no dead pixels and the picture is very bright and sharp. I'm very pleased so I would definitely recommend one.